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Wilder vs Klitschko then AJ vs WK 2?

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Wilder vs Klitschko then AJ vs WK 2? Empty Wilder vs Klitschko then AJ vs WK 2?

Post by Valero's Conscience on Sat 13 May 2017, 6:13 pm

WBC have ranked Wlad at No.2 in their rankings.

I last heard the WBC ordered Wilder to face Stiverne again but if this falls through i could see Wilder fighting Wlad in the US.

Wlad has shot up in people's respect and profile and could imagine this happening later this year whilst AJ has a safe fight (or perhaps Parker fight, which is safe IMO) with an AJ vs Wilder/Wlad winner showdown next year?

Possibly wishful thinking but this would keep interest at a recent all time high in the HW division and the person on top at the end of next being the undisputed king pin and securing a HoF place.


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Post by Mr Bounce on Sun 14 May 2017, 7:24 am

I am still not sure that Wlad fights again. He may well say enough is enough and calls it a day.
That said, there is the lure of the WBC belt, the only one he hasn't got in his collection, and a Wilder fight, whilst by no means easy, would be a walk in the park compared to facing Joshua.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 15 May 2017, 10:17 am

I bet after he beat Haye Wlad must have been glowing inside, on top of the world and proud as punch it was Ukraine 1-0 UK

Now Wlad can lie by a swimming pool the rest of his life bronzing himself scratching his balls feeling ok about his career but ultimately ruled not such a great division Mr Klitschko, UK 2- Ukr/Ger 1

Comeback and beat Joshua he's a national hero again and seals his legacy as a very decent champion who showed he could come back from a loss to a quality heavyweight  and do great things his career it has to be said is ultimately still lacking that signature moment

Then he can lie by a pool, bronze himself, scratch his balls and feel king of the castle, job done

He's still got work to do he must surely be tempted(it's looking likely.) Not about money now for Wlad but something far more important how he could be remembered

Of course he gets poleaxed again that wouldn't be a good look for him and strnghthen the claim he ruled a weak one all about perceptions why not ride off now as a very good(but perhaps not great) champion? Also Wilder can really sting, at times fast and accurate, Wlad should leave him alone for now he needs to avenge either Joshua or Fury then he'll be content. Something still missing in his career he must feel it deep down

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:39 am

I wonder if, to some extent, WK sees AJ blitzing an entire division (top 2-3 aside) and getting massive hype and thinks, "Well, he's getting so much credit, I got so little respect for my dominance due to being boring and safety first, but I proved against AJ that I could slug it out, that I could really fight not just box, therefore why can't I smash everyone else going??"

AJ was a much more comfortabel proposition for WK than Fury was, but if he went for it against Tyson like he did Anthony, might he now think he's got a better chance of 'righting that wrong'?

He should certainly see Wilder as a sitting duck. Wild swinger with limited real boxing technique but none of Fury's awkwardness or size/reach advantages. Dangerous if he lands but his hit rate is unlikely to be as high as AJ and most people are comfortable he can't take a shot - would Wilder get up from that right that dropped AJ??

Get the WBC then go out on your shield, Wlad......

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Post by melv500 on Tue 16 May 2017, 1:36 pm

Loads of sources saying the rematch is pretty much a done deal. Will be held in Millenium Stadium in October.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 16 May 2017, 2:10 pm

I think Wlad v Josh is more likely...But..

Wlad should retire...With the paucity of talent at Heavy Josh will reign a while and I believe will at least hit the Heavy Top 20/30 after unification and a few stiffs..Chuck a Fury win in too at some stage.

The fact Wlad lost in a great fight at 41 ??..Will only look better and better with time especially as I see Whyte beating Parker when they meet..Champions look better when victims become Champions also.

Wlad you don't need money..You will be six months older and coming off a stoppage defeat to fight a guy with the confidence he can beat you.

Time to enjoy retirement.

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Post by melv500 on Tue 16 May 2017, 2:34 pm

Have to say I completely agree with everything you said.

If he has to take a fight then obviously go for AJ as he will make a packet. But would prefer he retire now. He put up a great fight and will be kicking himself for not seizing the opportunity win when it looked like it was there. Having said that it was a long tough fight and must have taken a lot out of him at his age. I can only see the rematch going one way and that's a pretty clear KO win for AJ. Could be wrong but that's my prediction.

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Post by EX7EY on Tue 16 May 2017, 2:55 pm

I wouldnt be so sure about the outcome of the rematch.

Yes Wlad will be 6 months older but he put up a hell of a fight in the first fight and that was coming off a p!ss poor performance and an 18 month lay off.

I personally think it warrants a rematch. It was a very good fight and a very even fight overall until the end when AJ got his second wind.

I think it's worth another watch. If AJ does blow him out then he has to call it a day but based on the last one I think it's a bit unfair to just assume he's completely done.

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Post by melv500 on Tue 16 May 2017, 3:12 pm

See what you are saying but looking at the ending he took some savage shots and did well to get to his feet. In fact answered a few questions about his chin and to his credit was stopped on his feet. But in my opinion a fight like that takes a lot out of any fighter and being 41 has to take some toll in my view. Just my opinion and not for one second stating it as fact.

I actually really dislike AJ. Not the fighter but the PR and media training BS that it comes with. PPV with Whyte and the 3 other doorman he beat. Just stink of rinsing fans for every last penny. So I'll be routing for Wlad.

Funnily enough highlights of Calzaghe v Lacy were Facebook the other day and I completely forgot that was on ITV so free. Some of the fights we have to fork out PPV these days are a joke.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Tue 16 May 2017, 4:35 pm

Wlad must be thinking if he just times that right cross a millisecond better next time..

It'll be drinks on the house the rest of his life instead of nice having you with us Mr Klitschko but you forgot to pay your bill

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Tue 16 May 2017, 5:10 pm

I mean Wlad was Mr Big out there pre Fury his face everywhere now it's two losses to the best two fighters he faced he may see the endorsements slowly start to dry up the next few years

A win over Joshua puts him right back to where he was even higher. What a way to retire

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 16 May 2017, 5:38 pm

Would like Wlad to take Wilder out first...

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Post by AdamT on Tue 16 May 2017, 5:45 pm

Wilder can't punch in straight lines, so he has no problem there.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Tue 16 May 2017, 6:22 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Would like Wlad to take Wilder out first...

But Joshua is a bigger fight for Wlad than Wilder

And if Wlad beats Joshua then a fight with Wilder would be bigger than it is now

Plus Wilder is still unproven at the very highest level so a win over Joshua better for Wlad's legacy at this stage

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 16 May 2017, 7:53 pm

Don't see the point in Wlad beating Wilder...Means Joshua gets more experience in the meantime and Wlad gets older....Joshua is the man now....

Bloody hard to keep motivating yourself and going through the rigmarole of hard training in your late 30s never mind 40s...

Wilder is a paper champion and the win means little while Joshua is the number 1..No one rates Wilder.

Time isn't on Wlad's side..If you have one last hurrah... it is Joshua 2...or retire.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:11 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Would like Wlad to take Wilder out first...

But Joshua is a bigger fight for Wlad than Wilder

And if Wlad beats Joshua then a fight with Wilder would be bigger than it is now

Plus Wilder is still unproven at the very highest level so a win over Joshua better for Wlad's legacy at this stage

Agree all that. Just setting out a wish list.... Smile

Don't like Wilder, would like to see him get torched. And an AJ fight would be even bigger if Wlad had the WBC strap and a 'top' win rather than 2 losses and no belts...

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:21 am

Got a feeling Wlad has two more in him Joshua rematch then sign out with Wilder

Win those two and he's not a bad champion

I see your point toppy the Wlad Wilder is a lucrative route too. Joshua Wilder is one I think fans want to see too hopefully that can be made next year if Joshua beats Wlad and then Fury could be made summer next year

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:34 am

Wlad should bow out on a high. Many will remember him for his brave action packed loss.

If he gets beat by Wilder, that last fight means little.

He has passed the torch to AJ/Fury, let them run with it.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:41 am

I see that point too Adam Wlad would be relatively well thought of if he quit now but Wlad's got quite a big ego I'm sure he'd much rather walk around the rest of his life having avenged the Joshua loss. He'll be able to smile more at parties. Besides the money is too good to turn down. Surely

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:46 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:I see that point too Adam Wlad would be relatively well thought of if he quit now but Wlad's got quite a big ego I'm sure he'd much rather walk around the rest of his life having avenged the Joshua loss. He'll be able to smile more at parties. Besides the money is too good to turn down. Surely

You're right, a true champion would want to retire a winner. I don't think he can beat AJ. He was winning, but imo only one guy can get better at this stage of their career. AJ will have learned so much from that fight.

I would like to see Joshua lose a few pounds of muscle and fight at 17 stone. His one weakness could be his muscles needing huge amounts of oxygen. He did get a second wind vs Wlad, but he was struggling bad after the knockdown.

Joshua hasn't had that many fights and he is seen by most, as the best fighter on the planet. The worold is at his feet and if he keeps learning/growing even more in confidence, he will probably be unbeatable for some time.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 17 May 2017, 11:00 am

Totally agree about the losing a bit of muscle but if it makes him feel good who are we to comment. But surely his powers of recuperation would be enhanced if he could slim down just a touch surely someone with more killer instinct gets him out of there after that knockdown looked like he was gulping for air a minute or two. I think he'd be a better fighter if he could just lose a stone

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 11:07 am

He doesn't need to lose much. 10 or 12 lb would be enough. He will still have more power than anyone in the division.

Though perhaps he thought he was going in there to bang out an ageing ex champ, in a few short rounds.

Was watching the Tyson Ruddock fights last night. Would pick both of them guys to beat anyone in the current division. The second Ruddock fight was my favourite Tyson fight. He didn't look quite at his 'prime Tyson' best, but he was f****g tough and determined.

Forgot who good Ruddock was as well. Tough boy and good power. He was never as good after the two fights with Tyson. He took a lot of hard shots, Tyson did too.

Not relevant to the subject, but any younger readers should check the fights out.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 17 May 2017, 11:27 am

Joshua's probably thinking though if I lose ten twelve pounds will I still be able to hold a shot as well? It's a tricky one

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 11:30 am

I see you're point. I still think 18 stone is a bit heavy.

People think Fury is a clown, but he can move for 12 rounds.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 17 May 2017, 11:44 am

Eighteen strikes me as a bit heavy but who knows maybe with sports science these days these giants will have better stamina

Wlad never showed his experience in the Joshua fight as an extra point. When he had him down should have started cracking him round the ribs and liver

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 17 May 2017, 11:50 am

You know I think Frank has a point either charge him or be done with it this is not right dragging on too long:

http://www.boxingscene.com/tyson-fury-ukad-hearing-delayed-end-year--116638

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 11:56 am

I still think Fury can trouble AJ. He's better than many suggest.

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Post by Rodney on Wed 17 May 2017, 11:59 am

AdamT wrote:He doesn't need to lose much. 10 or 12 lb would be enough. He will still have more power than anyone in the division.

Though perhaps he thought he was going in there to bang out an ageing ex champ, in a few short rounds.

Was watching the Tyson Ruddock fights last night. Would pick both of them guys to beat anyone in the current division. The second Ruddock fight was my favourite Tyson fight. He didn't look quite at his 'prime Tyson' best, but he was f****g tough and determined.

Forgot who good Ruddock was as well. Tough boy and good power. He was never as good after the two fights with Tyson. He took a lot of hard shots, Tyson did too.

Not relevant to the subject, but any younger readers should check the fights out.

He was at the ripe old age and over the hill 24.
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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 12:11 pm

He wasn't sharp Rodney. Nothing to do with age. His training suffered.

I'm not one that makes out 'Mythical prime Tyson was invincible', but he wasn't as good. Plus he was at least 25 then.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 17 May 2017, 12:15 pm

Wilfred Benitez was completely finished at 24, age isn't everything.

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 12:16 pm

George Best was as well. Different sport, but he was done.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 17 May 2017, 12:20 pm

AdamT wrote:I see you're point. I still think 18 stone is a bit heavy.

People think Fury is a clown, but he can move for 12 rounds.

Twin advantages of less muscle to keep functioning and battling lactic acid with, and throwing fewer shots so he never gets 'spent' like AJ in the 5th.

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Post by Rodney on Wed 17 May 2017, 12:24 pm

AdamT wrote:He wasn't sharp Rodney. Nothing to do with age. His training suffered.

I'm not one that makes out 'Mythical prime Tyson was invincible', but he wasn't as good. Plus he was at least 25 then.

Can you explain why you hold Tyson is such high regard and GGG as very average ?

Both have held similarly terrifying reigns yet without lets say a stellar name ? If you throw than can at GGG you can surely take aim at Tyson.

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 12:32 pm

Because Tyson is much better and fought better fighters?

GGG isn't as fast as Tyson, nor had Tyson's defence. Tyson had more overall skills. GGG has the longevity and discipline.

Tyson had good names Rodney. Much better than GGG!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 17 May 2017, 12:40 pm

42 year olds shouldn't be fighting and how Herman can say he thinks Wlad has two more fights left in him after just being stopped.

How do you back up a comment like that...Come on man.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 17 May 2017, 12:56 pm

Luckily the ref saved Wlad from taking too bad a beating against Joshua so no psychological scarring

Clearly Wlad feels like he can reverse the loss his comments the few days after the fight suggested that we'll have to agree to disagree Truss I think Wlad still has a bit left but always the danger he gets poleaxed next time and you can say told you so. I like the fact Wlad is willing to give it another go showing character respect goes up for him in my book. A win next time would be huge for him

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:04 pm

I'm afraid I am with Truss. He is in his 40's and I think he performed to the best of his ability. He had Aj in trouble, but he reverted back to cautious Wlad.

Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield etc, would of smelt blood and finished AJ off after that heavy knock down.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:15 pm

Never too late to learn from your mistakes and rectify the wrongs but sure Joshua goes off favourite

The question is can Wlad pull out one last superhuman effort so much to gain

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:26 pm

He pulled his last effort.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:30 pm

That could have been his last effort this one could just be his pension fight the thing is he don't need the money. It's about pride it'll be another good fight

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:32 pm

I predicted a close fight last time and thought Wlad would do enough, but I think AJ will have little problems next time. He was a 19 fight novice and will have learned loads in that fight. Wlad is 41, he isn't learning anything new now.

He fought well, he had his chance, but ultimately he did not get the job done. I'm definitely favouring the younger, fresher fighter.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:35 pm

It only takes one punch Adam and that right cross will be fresh in the memory

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:37 pm

Agreed, but Aj won't get over confident and make mistakes. I don't want to underestimate Wlad, but I believe he can't beat AJ. If he were 35, I would say different.

AJ might be the best fighter in the world, but he is still a bit of a novice. At least compared to Wlad.

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Post by Rodney on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:42 pm

AdamT wrote:Because Tyson is much better and fought better fighters?

GGG isn't as fast as Tyson, nor had Tyson's defence. Tyson had more overall skills. GGG has the longevity and discipline.

Tyson had good names Rodney. Much better than GGG!

In terms of overall standing and ability Id say there's hardly nothing much between their opponents. Granted Tyson may have been quicker and defensively sharper but whichever way you dress it up he took a whooping from Buster Douglas which is a dreadful result. Im harsher than most on Tyson who can be considered a flat track bully who never beat adversity.

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:46 pm

Watch his Ruddock fights. He beat a hard man over two fights.

The only adversity he faced (other than Douglas) was after a 3-4 year prison stint. No athlete would be as good after that.

Ali was special because, he came back after a hiatus and still became the best fighter in the world.

I'm not on the side of the fence that declares Tyson the greatest ever. But he was a sensational fighter and would give any heavyweight trouble.

Very underrated by many writers. Even Bert Sugar said Tyson really was sensational around 86-89.

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Post by melv500 on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:55 pm

AdamT wrote:Agreed, but Aj won't get over confident and make mistakes. I don't want to underestimate Wlad, but I believe he can't beat AJ. If he were 35, I would say different.

AJ might be the best fighter in the world, but he is still a bit of a novice. At least compared to Wlad.

Being cautious may just play into Wlads hands. His jab was much better as was his boxing skills. Brute force and letting his hands go did the trick and I'd see the same happening again. But a quicker outcome for AJ.

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Post by AdamT on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:57 pm

Aj sends him into retirement. Wlad fought valiantly, but it wasn't enough.

AJ is still quite raw, but he has huge potential.

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Wilder vs Klitschko then AJ vs WK 2? Empty Re: Wilder vs Klitschko then AJ vs WK 2?

Post by melv500 on Wed 17 May 2017, 2:21 pm

I agree. I think he will bulldoze his was through this time.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 17 May 2017, 2:22 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:It only takes one punch Adam and that right cross will be fresh in the memory

Wonder what will be in Josh's mind...

Give it up Herman.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 17 May 2017, 2:38 pm

Already said Joshua goes off favourite you're not reading

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