Silly Season Transfer Rumours 17/18

First topic message reminder :

New season, new thread.

Really hope it isn't Saints, they have been awful for a few seasons now and North really seems to be stagnating there.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

BamBam wrote:Rhys Webb rumoured to be joining Dan Biggar in leaving Ospreys

Both heading out of Wales? How will that effect Gatland's Law? 

What's going on with the Ospreys, they got an underwhelming write up at the weekend and didn't really show up at WR in preseason.

Gatland's Law has so many caveats it's pretty much pointless.  Well, not pointless as it is a slight deterrent.  But Gatland can use one of many caveats to pick who he wants, as I see it.  As an example, a player is not deemed to fall under the law if he moves to a club outside Wales due to a Welsh region not tabling a 'serious offer', or at 'market value, or words to that effect.  But what is 'market value'?  The highest bid???  So if Saracens table a bid for £400,000 but the Welsh regions can only afford to offer £250,000 then Webb could leave and not be caught up in Gatland's law as the welsh regions had bid below 'market value'.  Or something along those lines.  Similarly if a player is not offered a contract by a Welsh region then they're not caught up by the law, although I'm sure Webb is being offered one.  But I think that's what happened with Charteris - any bid for him within Wales came after he'd already agreed to join Bath.  Allegedly.  Of course, even if they are 'captured' by the law there are still a number of wildcards available.  So Gatland has a number of cards up his sleeve should he need to use them.

I think Faletau will be the one player that Wales will really struggle to get back - hes an absolute machine and one of the best 8s in the NH.

munkian wrote:I think Faletau will be the one player that Wales will really struggle to get back - hes an absolute machine and one of the best 8s in the NH.

Yep and he's on his way back to Dragons

Think fitting Webb into the salary cap with the likes of Itoje due renewal soon will be the bigger consideration for Saracens

Oh wait, its Saracens, expect him to be announced in the next couple of weeks, Nigel will sort it

Griff wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

BamBam wrote:Rhys Webb rumoured to be joining Dan Biggar in leaving Ospreys

Both heading out of Wales? How will that effect Gatland's Law? 

What's going on with the Ospreys, they got an underwhelming write up at the weekend and didn't really show up at WR in preseason.

Gatland's Law has so many caveats it's pretty much pointless.  Well, not pointless as it is a slight deterrent.  But Gatland can use one of many caveats to pick who he wants, as I see it.  As an example, a player is not deemed to fall under the law if he moves to a club outside Wales due to a Welsh region not tabling a 'serious offer', or at 'market value, or words to that effect.  But what is 'market value'?  The highest bid???  So if Saracens table a bid for £400,000 but the Welsh regions can only afford to offer £250,000 then Webb could leave and not be caught up in Gatland's law as the welsh regions had bid below 'market value'.  Or something along those lines.  Similarly if a player is not offered a contract by a Welsh region then they're not caught up by the law, although I'm sure Webb is being offered one.  But I think that's what happened with Charteris - any bid for him within Wales came after he's already agreed to join Bath.  Allegedly.  Of course, even if they are 'captured' by the law there are still a number of wildcards available.  So Gatland has a number of cards up his sleeve should he need to use them.

Apparently there are 4 wildcards this year. 

Last year apparently George North, Taulupe Faletau, Jamie Roberts, Rhys Priestland, Dominic Day, Rhodri Williams and Nicky Thomas were caught by the edict but Luke Charteris wasn't for reasons which I don't really understand. I would guess that Liam Williams, North, Faletau and Moriarty are the wildcards this year?

George Carlin wrote:

Griff wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

BamBam wrote:Rhys Webb rumoured to be joining Dan Biggar in leaving Ospreys

Both heading out of Wales? How will that effect Gatland's Law? 

What's going on with the Ospreys, they got an underwhelming write up at the weekend and didn't really show up at WR in preseason.

Gatland's Law has so many caveats it's pretty much pointless.  Well, not pointless as it is a slight deterrent.  But Gatland can use one of many caveats to pick who he wants, as I see it.  As an example, a player is not deemed to fall under the law if he moves to a club outside Wales due to a Welsh region not tabling a 'serious offer', or at 'market value, or words to that effect.  But what is 'market value'?  The highest bid???  So if Saracens table a bid for £400,000 but the Welsh regions can only afford to offer £250,000 then Webb could leave and not be caught up in Gatland's law as the welsh regions had bid below 'market value'.  Or something along those lines.  Similarly if a player is not offered a contract by a Welsh region then they're not caught up by the law, although I'm sure Webb is being offered one.  But I think that's what happened with Charteris - any bid for him within Wales came after he's already agreed to join Bath.  Allegedly.  Of course, even if they are 'captured' by the law there are still a number of wildcards available.  So Gatland has a number of cards up his sleeve should he need to use them.

Apparently there are 4 wildcards this year. 

Last year apparently George North, Taulupe Faletau, Jamie Roberts, Rhys Priestland, Dominic Day, Rhodri Williams and Nicky Thomas were caught by the edict but Luke Charteris wasn't for reasons which I don't really understand. I would guess that Liam Williams, North, Faletau and Moriarty are the wildcards this year?

As I said above, Charteris was not offered a contract by a Welsh region before he'd already agreed to join Bath. So as there was no Welsh option then he did not decide to join an English club over a Welsh one, so is outside the law. Bids did come in for him, but only after he'd signed for Bath. Allegedly.

Webb rejected a move to Saracens in 2015, haven't heard about any new interest though Webb would be a good signing obviously.

Just see it as very unlikely.

Saracens do indeed have a lot of 9s but I'd go as far as to say it's one of our weaker positions if not the weakest. Then again Saracens are strong in most positions.

No one has yet been able to match up to Kyran Bracken though Wigglesworth has done a solid job.

They'd miss Wigglesworth's kicking game if Webb started for them. Webb's box-kicking in particular is quite poor.

Not that high profile, but Bath Head Coach Tabai Matson has left the club immediately to return to NZ for family reasons. Real sad news, as he was a popular guy around the club, but some things like family, are bigger than your job.

beshocked wrote:Webb rejected a move to Saracens in 2015, haven't heard about any new interest though Webb would be a good signing obviously.

Just see it as very unlikely.

Saracens do indeed have a lot of 9s but I'd go as far as to say it's one of our weaker positions if not the weakest. Then again Saracens are strong in most positions.

If Saracens manage the succession planning well this season the they'll start to move towards a Stringer position. Spencer has looked good for a while now and regular rotation with Wigglesworth will help that (very surprised they didn't bring Spencer on at half time vs Saints). Taylor the third choice is a quality player with a great boot and should fit the Sarries system. Spencer is an England Saxons and Taylor played for England under 20s whilst playing for Loughborough Uni. There's a couple of young guns who I saw for Sarries in the LV last season behind them that look prospects as well.

With Saracens having to look at securing their young home grown talent on new contracts they'll need to be savvy and won't be spending big on international players unless they have to you'd have thought.

Dan Biggar: Northampton Saints sign Wales and Ospreys fly-half for 2018-19 season

Another international to turn sh't then.

mikey_dragon wrote:Another international to turn sh't then.

Yeah, was thinking this myself, Saints seem to be a graveyard of talent and ambition at the moment.

Says the Dragons fan

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Says the Dragons fan

I never once suggested he should come to us

Wonder what market value the Welsh sides will have offered him

£15k a year sounds about right to make sure Blockhead can pick him

He's only 27, so he should be at the peak of his bargaining powers.
After Farrell's 5 year deal, I'm guessing that this will be 3 years.
Wonder how much he's going to be on.

Griff wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

BamBam wrote:Rhys Webb rumoured to be joining Dan Biggar in leaving Ospreys

Both heading out of Wales? How will that effect Gatland's Law? 

What's going on with the Ospreys, they got an underwhelming write up at the weekend and didn't really show up at WR in preseason.

Gatland's Law has so many caveats it's pretty much pointless.  Well, not pointless as it is a slight deterrent.  But Gatland can use one of many caveats to pick who he wants, as I see it.  As an example, a player is not deemed to fall under the law if he moves to a club outside Wales due to a Welsh region not tabling a 'serious offer', or at 'market value, or words to that effect.  But what is 'market value'?  The highest bid???  So if Saracens table a bid for £400,000 but the Welsh regions can only afford to offer £250,000 then Webb could leave and not be caught up in Gatland's law as the welsh regions had bid below 'market value'.  Or something along those lines.  Similarly if a player is not offered a contract by a Welsh region then they're not caught up by the law, although I'm sure Webb is being offered one.  But I think that's what happened with Charteris - any bid for him within Wales came after he'd already agreed to join Bath.  Allegedly.  Of course, even if they are 'captured' by the law there are still a number of wildcards available.  So Gatland has a number of cards up his sleeve should he need to use them.

Surely any losing bid is below market value. That means the only players who cannot play for Wales are those who left Wales for less money. As you say - meaningless.

munkian wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Says the Dragons fan

I never once suggested he should come to us

I can't recall any internationals coming to us and turning sh't. Actually, I can't even remember any current internationals coming to us...

Apparently Pat Lambie has signed for Racing

Player drain away from SA seems to be continuing.
Lambie is really someone that they would have wanted to try and keep in country.

Wasn't Pat Lambie already in France and supposedly retiring to get out of the contract, or was that another SA fly-half?

That was Johan Goosen

I do not know if it has been mentioned on here already, but apparently Dimitri Arhip is considering a 500k a year contract from one of the French clubs.

Hearing that Nick Evans is coming out of retirement to cover for Catrakillis, who has fractured a bone in his throat. Ouch.

BamBam wrote:That was Johan Goosen

Yeah that's him.

LordDowlais wrote:I do not know if it has been mentioned on here already, but apparently Dimitri Arhip is considering a 500k a year contract from one of the French clubs.

Average money in France for just an okay prop forward. It's ridiculous.

Brussow official for Saints.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41254306

As Scottrf said.......

propdavid_london wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41254306

As Scottrf said.......

Going to keep one of our brightest prospects either on the bench or out of the 23. He can't play in the position we are desperately short on - 8.

Saints will have to change their whole game plan from last year.

Do you mean that young lad Ludlum I think he's called? The young openside?

Well it could go that way or on the other hand if managed properly it could be a world of experience for the young lad training with a top class 7 every day..and I'm sure he'll get the required game time.

Admittedly not always , but generally young lads will learn from these experienced top class players..our young 8 calum chick is developing a treat and I have no doubts whatsoever that having the likes of Aly Hogg and Nili Latu around has been a big part of that.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

propdavid_london wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41254306

As Scottrf said.......

Going to keep one of our brightest prospects either on the bench or out of the 23. He can't play in the position we are desperately short on - 8.

Saints will have to change their whole game plan from last year.

Agree - he is a quality player but an openside through and through. The Picamole Problem still remains.

I thought that Saints would have weighed in to take Josh Strauss from Glasgow but apparently the Sale offer was too high to ignore.

How do people think that Saints will do this year?

Depends which Saints game was a one off the Sarries one or the Tigers one.

George Carlin wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

propdavid_london wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41254306

As Scottrf said.......

Going to keep one of our brightest prospects either on the bench or out of the 23. He can't play in the position we are desperately short on - 8.

Saints will have to change their whole game plan from last year.

Agree - he is a quality player but an openside through and through. The Picamole Problem still remains.

I thought that Saints would have weighed in to take Josh Strauss from Glasgow but apparently the Sale offer was too high to ignore.

How do people think that Saints will do this year?

5th/6th IMO.

Tigers sign Afa Pakalani, Kyle Traynor & Jake Kerr.

Have to admit I've not heard if them before, anyone know more about them?

Traynor is the journeyman's journeyman. He has had a mixed career popping up here and there. Among his highlights my personal favourite is starting at LH for Scotland about 6 months after being cut by Edinburgh and whilst playing for Brizz in the championship. He is an unspectacular but experienced squad addition. A LH coming in makes me worry that Rizzo will be staying in Edinburgh long term though.

Jake Kerr had a good reputation as a Scotland and Edinburgh academy player. Living in Edinburgh now I keep up with the Scottish Premiership a decent amount, Kerr had a reputation as a bull in the loose and had a very big engine whilst playing for Boroughmuir. I couldn't tell you anything beyond that though. I don't even know how he ended up involved with Tigers during pre-season to be honest. Part of the increasing Loughborough Uni connection perhaps? Edinburgh fans could probably tell us more about his strengths and weaknesses?

Pakalani is an MOC connection from Tonga. He seems to have been signed as a project/squad player similar to Mapapalangi. He's played NPC and 7s for the last few years after a 1 season stint in Super Rugby with the Waratahs. With that CV he'll probably offer bags of pace, good footwork and decent handling skills but have a lot to work on in positioning, defence and kicking. Sounds like Nick Malouf but with a bit of experience at 15.

Rizzo hopefully returning aside they are reasonable squad signings IMO. We need depth at hooker so Kerr ticks that box. Options to rotate props are so important given Cole and Logo need rotating, as will Genge with how much the pack is reliant on him.

We still need an injury dispensation centre for Manu. A top class second row to partner Barrow would be fantastic but is unrealistic this season. If Lood de Jager is still fancying a Prem stint at the end of the Super Rugby season then I'd be very happy for Tigers to pinch him from LI...

Kerr has been studying economics at Loughborough.

I think we're ok at lock unless at absolute monster becomes available. Wells and Big Joe are coming through well behind the three first choice we already have. Same for centre cover, unless it's an international class beast then no. Smith played very well vs Glaws and we have Tait, Thacker, Worth and the bloke we signed from Scarlets as well.

The Rugby Paper reporting that Quins are 'lining up' Santiago Cordero (Argentinian Winger) as a replacement for Marland Yarde, who's contract expires at the end of the season and he's thought to be off to pastures new.

I don't think Yarde has been particularly good for you yappysnap. Hard to say whether it's Quins fault or the player's fault or a bit of both.

I thought the way he just couldn't be bothered to even try tackling May showed a poor attitude. I know May is fast but at least try!

I actually think Yarde was better at Irish than he has been at Quins.

Any rumours as to where he is off to? Wouldn't surprise me if it was Bath.

beshocked wrote:
I thought the way he just couldn't be bothered to even try tackling May showed a poor attitude. I know May is fast but at least try!

That's pretty harsh. Yarde wouldn't have got anywhere near, May completely did him with his footwork, why risk an injury by diving towards the advertising boards?

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

beshocked wrote:
I thought the way he just couldn't be bothered to even try tackling May showed a poor attitude. I know May is fast but at least try!

That's pretty harsh. Yarde wouldn't have got anywhere near, May completely did him with his footwork, why risk an injury by diving towards the advertising boards?

He could have tried a tap tackle.

Its a shame that Yarde hasn't really fulfilled his potential for/with Quins. My understanding is that we pretty much broke the bank to get him from Irish and that 'in the bigger picture' perhaps hasn't paid off yet!

On Yarde himself - while he doesn't score a lot of tries (for a winger) he does do a lot of the physical that isn't always appreciated. He carries into a lot of traffic for Quins - perhaps more than he should do. He was/is a like for like replacement for Ugo in that respect - as Ugo didn't score a lot of tries but was incredibly solid and got through a huge amount of work.

Sad for Yarde though as against Wasps it was one of the best performances I have seen from him.

stnick88 wrote:I actually think Yarde was better at Irish than he has been at Quins.

Any rumours as to where he is off to? Wouldn't surprise me if it was Bath.

I agree, your gameplan seemed set up to get the best from him. Since he's been at Quins we usually haven't had a gameplan, and when we have it hasn't really used him much.

Wasps would be a good choice for him.

Wasps have an abundance of wingers!

Not sure Yarde would fit in with Wasps. They have an electric backline and he tends to be more workman like. Watson, Wade and Bassett all have plenty of speed and footwork, not really the workman types. Bath like a physical winger, he might fit more there.

Lots of rumours Dorian West is coming to us as a coach....

GeordieFalcon wrote:Lots of rumours Dorian West is coming to us as a coach....

Fingers crossed.

Yeah one of my mates is a Saints season ticket holder...and he said exactly the same.

No loss basically.