2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round One

First topic message reminder :

Not on a par with LT but, hopefully, we can keep the discussions separate week by week.

Friday, 1st September

Gloucester vs Exeter Chiefs (19:45) BT Sport
Newcastle Falcons vs Worcester Warriors (19:45)

Saturday, 2nd September

Saracens vs Northampton Saints (14:00) BT Sport
Wasps vs Sale Sharks (15:00)
London Irish vs Harlequins (16:45) BT Sport

Sunday. 3rd September

Leicester Tigers vs Bath (15:00) BT Sport

Chat already started on this general thread: https://www.606v2.com/t65292-jeff-chat
Details lifted from: http://www.premiershiprugby.com/aviva-premiership-rugby-fixtures/

I think has made mistakes and had a poor game, you taking the pee or do you agree?

"Don't change bind"

Player changes bind. 

"He's always bound"

FFS

Hmm. I'm one for backing a ref but when you're shouting don't change your bind then he does in front of you...

nathan wrote:I think has made mistakes and had a poor game, you taking the pee or do you agree?

I agree - he's been complete pants

In fact one decision could have been a 14 pointer - the one where a Tigers player collected the loose ball that popped out of the ruck and was off with no defenders to be seen only to be pinged for offside - which I don't think he was - and then Bath get a try from the resulting field position ... and that was just one of many odd calls.

I usually try to cut refs some slack as the abuse they are given is the worst way to raise reffing standards. At the end of the day who would be a ref...

The Faletau maul turnover was inexplicable though. "Don't change your bind, don't change your bind, don't change your bind", Faletau completely changes his bind and no penalty comes.

Pfft, yellow card for that? I get that it was cumulative but dear me, game has gone soft.

4th high tackle

Cumbrian wrote:Pfft, yellow card for that?  I get that it was cumulative but dear me, game has gone soft.

Three sets of warnings about penalties conceded and high tackles. Soft though.

I thought May had made a mess of that try as well then, glad he got it down at the end. Tigers have been far too wasteful.

13 men with about five minutes to go, can Leicester make it count? Is there enough time?

Ford is such a schizophrenic kicker, he fluffs a relatively easy one from and nails one from the sidelines!

Well that game was summed up by that final lineout. Tigers all over Bath but a stupid error letting them down before Bath clinically take control.

I thought tigers had stamped out the errors apparently not though

nathan wrote:I thought tigers had stamped out the errors  apparently not though

Doesn't look like much has changed does it? First half tactics were poor, we played in stupid areas of the pitch, second half was a bit more pragmatic, just crippled by errors. 

Thacker has sensational when he came on, that'll open up that debate again. Bench impact was good.

A strange and frustrating game.

A poor day from Luke Pierce but Bath showed how to play the ref better than Tigers did. Their props identified that he didn't want to make scrum decisions so knew they could drop the scrum once the ball had been hooked back and Pierce would call use it. Clever play. Louw and Faletau played Pierce well in the ruck too.

From a Tigers perspective it felt like our forwards were consistently teetering on the verge of scrum dominance without ever making it count when it mattered.

Sam Harrison had a big impact for Tigers when he came on, that substitution could have come earlier IMO.

The Tigers line-out let them down repeatedly. There's been a lot of questions asked about Richard Blaze's ability to coach Tigers forwards, today won't help that.

Congrats Bath. Even with Tigers mixed form of recent years we have remained a very hard side to beat at home.

For me Tom Youngs isn't up to speed yet (Understandable)

Hopefully McGugian will be fit soon as would start him with Thacker bench.

Williams starts at 6 v saints 100%.

Thought the ref was ok until he backed himself in a corner leading to the 3 yellows to Bath (2 of them were justified). Bath did not help themselves, but it was a bit disproportionate and Garvey is probably the unlucky one. Leicester were bullied by Bath for most of the game until the first yellow.

After spending all that money on the Leicester backline, I am not sure any delivered bar May and maybe Veainu for more than the first 20. The half-backs were completely outplayed by Bath's and, bearing in mind it is easier to play when your pack is on the front foot, the few times Cook was under pressure he delivered.

Overall an excellent game to watch and Leicester showed their resilience to almost edge it when they were not at their best.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Thought the ref was ok until he backed himself in a corner leading to the 3 yellows to Bath (2 of them were justified). Bath did not help themselves, but it was a bit disproportionate and Garvey is probably the unlucky one.  Leicester were bullied by Bath for most of the game until the first yellow.

After spending all that money on the Leicester backline, I am not sure any delivered bar May and maybe Veainu for more than the first 20. The half-backs were completely outplayed by Bath's and, bearing in mind it is easier to play when your pack is on the front foot, the few times Cook was under pressure he delivered.

Overall an excellent game to watch and Leicester showed their resilience to almost edge it when they were not at their best.

That's an interesting view. Personally I felt that we were all over Bath for large periods and created more than enough chances to win the game but time and time again wasted those chances. Bath were clinical with their one chance in the first half and unable to bully their way over the try line in the second. The other two Bath tries were run ins from terrible Tigers errors.

In regards to the half backs I though that restarts aside Priestland barely featured and the Bath backline rarely threatened. Cook was fantastic, kept it simple and kept it accurate. The only criticism I have of him is that he allowed the forwards to get carried away close to the line in the second half and had he moved the pods further out he could have found holes in the Tigers defence. A fourth try at that point in the second had would have put the icing on the cake for Bath. 

Welly, can't see it. Tom is club captain and I doubt he'll be dropped. Only change for next week will probably be Cole for Mulipola.

Bath rode their luck with Leicester making far too many unforced errors. Both yellows for high tackles were unbelievably soft and created space for the home side.

Very encouraged by the young Bath front row holding their own.  Stooke played his part, the back row were predictably top notch. Cook gets quite a lot of unfair stick from Bath fans but he looks in good form. Clark has arrived as a reliable first xv player too.
Saracens next week is the next easy test......

Bath's first 2 yellows were soft, however the ref had warned them specifically on high tackles and on the penalty count hence the backed into a corner.

FKAS, I may be mistaken but, up until the yellows, whenever Leicester got to the 22 (they did frequently due to Bath's penalty count), it did not feel like they were going to actually score. The forwards would get pushed back and the ball would be fed to the backs who got swarmed. Some crash ball straight to Tuilagi at first receiver or getting Genge (best carrier in the Leicester pack whenever I watch, he is a beast) on the ball with a head of steam would have been interesting. I don't remember them trying the former at all and the forwards seemed to be static more often than not once they got into the 22 (not sure whether that would be on B Youngs?). I am happy to be corrected if they did. The feed was not great and it made identifying players in a crowd (or rucks with more than 2-3) difficult.

On the Bath side, the loosehead Obano looked a prospect. Cook was my man of the match. Clark took his tries well and worked hard defensively. Roko should have considerably more caps for England (would have loved to have him for Scotland).

High tackle laws always cause arguments at the moment, as we get used to the new law that will die down though. The decision that frustrated me most were the ridiculous Faletau turnover at the maul. Tigers getting a warning for too many penalties in the second half whilst on a much lower penalty count than when Bath got their warning also irked me. Pierce struggled to show consistency throughout the game in many areas.

I thought Tigers threatened but lacked a clinical edge. Manu taking contact in a 3v2 was a good example of that. Throwing to the front of the line-out in the first half killed the momentum Baths early penalty count should have given Tigers.

Bath took their chances well and Tigers didn't sums the game up well.

Crikey, watched the highlights.

Was the rest of the Sarries game as...ominous as the highlights? That was some of the best club rugby I've seen in a while.

Congrats LI!

I was concerned about this game going into it, as we never seem to play well in the opening games, and Irish would be looking to target it

Sadly correct. We were crap. We looked lazy, unfit and stunned that LI wanted to play.

Irish on the other hand looked hungry, had a game plan they stuck to that worked. And you could see the players playing for each other.

The coaches at Quins need to change, the team culture looks shot and we look brainless, JK was never the correct call and Minty is not a defense coach.

So records tumbled all over the place this weekend. It will be interesting to see if next week can weekend can keep the pace up or whether it falls a bit flat after this one.

Cheers yappy.

I didn't think it was all bad from Quins. In hindsight starting the 18 year old at 10 was a mistake. Whilst he showed some nice touches, he had very little control and when you went behind didn't have the experience to grab the game by the scruff of the neck. You looked a lot better when Catrakilis came on.

That's true Ozzy.

Tbh it was the forwards that lost us the game.
Your pack pulled our pants down for 80 mins, our 8 looked distant second to you guys.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Well Lawes started against Itoje......not sure that was very clever?

Not strictly, Itoje started at 6 with Day and Kruis as locks, Isiekwe cam on for the injured Kruis and Itoje didn't move to lock until Rhodes came on late in the second half.

Still doesn't answer the question of why two of the most played Lions were starting the first match of the season though.

Injuries to Skelton,Clark and Fraser retiring meant Itoje had to start. Rhodes wasn't fully fit to play full 80.

Saracens rested most of their Lions stars.

Lawes is a key Saints man so I guess Saints felt he had to start.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Bath's first 2 yellows were soft, however the ref had warned them specifically on high tackles and on the penalty count hence the backed into a corner.

FKAS, I may be mistaken but, up until the yellows, whenever Leicester got to the 22 (they did frequently due to Bath's penalty count), it did not feel like they were going to actually score. The forwards would get pushed back and the ball would be fed to the backs who got swarmed. Some crash ball straight to Tuilagi at first receiver or getting Genge (best carrier in the Leicester pack whenever I watch, he is a beast) on the ball with a head of steam would have been interesting. I don't remember them trying the former at all and the forwards seemed to be static more often than not once they got into the 22 (not sure whether that would be on B Youngs?). I am happy to be corrected if they did. The feed was not great and it made identifying players in a crowd (or rucks with more than 2-3) difficult.

On the Bath side, the loosehead Obano looked a prospect. Cook was my man of the match. Clark took his tries well and worked hard defensively. Roko should have considerably more caps for England (would have loved to have him for Scotland).

Tigers butchered a number of opportunities. They certainly rushed often unnecessarily in the Bath 22 time and time again wasting overlaps and territory. Bath's penalty count was mainly due to their inability to stop Tigers breaking the defensive line in the first half. The high tackles were often "seat belt tackles" of desperate defenders and the penalties often due to the tackler lying on the ball to slow down the attack. After Bath got their first try they started to look more settled but I always felt that Tigers could score again if they could look after the ball for more than 30 seconds at a time.

In the first half Manu blew a three on two and then offloaded to a Bath defender when tackled. A forward blew an overlap before offloading a hospital pass to Frd who panicked knowing there was a big overlap outside and went for the pass which Roko intercepted. A clinical side would have turned those into tries. Bath didn't squander opportunities like that when they got them and I think that was the key to Bath's win.

Agree with you Yappie - Quins were poopie.
Nothing more you can say about it really - its the same sort of dirge that we had on and off last season where it didn't even look like the players wanted to be there!
I couldn't believe it in the last 15mins that there was a chance of a draw and or a couple of bonus points on offer! They certainly didn't deserve them considering the way they were playing.

Hats off to Irish - keep playing like that at there wont be any more talk of being the bottom side (never thought they would be).

A lot of big scores over the weekend - Some teams clicking and others that have a lot to work on.

Can't help but think that the crowds like Welford road are turning into football fans, where was the applause for Baths wonderful display yesterday?

Stunned silence at the full time whistle.

TightHEAD wrote:Can't help but think that the crowds like Welford road are turning into football fans, where was the applause for Baths wonderful display yesterday?

Stunned silence at the full time whistle.

What did you expect really?
Bath are a massive rivals for us.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Cheers yappy.  

I didn't think it was all bad from Quins.  In hindsight starting the 18 year old at 10 was a mistake.  Whilst he showed some nice touches, he had very little control and when you went behind didn't have the experience to grab the game by the scruff of the neck.  You looked a lot better when Catrakilis came on.

He looks like a good prospect however I cannot see that the hype is helpful. Calling him England's fourth best fly half just makes Eddie Jones, who I generally admire, look ridiculous.

TightHEAD wrote:Can't help but think that the crowds like Welford road are turning into football fans, where was the applause for Baths wonderful display yesterday?

Stunned silence at the full time whistle.

Yeah disgraceful the way that the Bath players were applauded onto the pitch at the start of both halves. You have to give fans a few minutes to digest finishes to games like that, it was a chaotic last 15 minutes.

Exiledinborders wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Cheers yappy.  

I didn't think it was all bad from Quins.  In hindsight starting the 18 year old at 10 was a mistake.  Whilst he showed some nice touches, he had very little control and when you went behind didn't have the experience to grab the game by the scruff of the neck.  You looked a lot better when Catrakilis came on.

He looks like a good prospect however I cannot see that the hype is helpful. Calling him England's fourth best fly half just makes Eddie Jones, who I generally admire, look ridiculous.

To be fair he did alright.

Not helped by the fact the Quins pack were massively second best at the breakdown so him and Care were getting Poopie slow ball. He did make some good breaks, got his hands free a few times for off loads and varied his passing. Roberts out side him looked useless though, and most of the rest of the team couldn't catch to save their lives.

Ford, Kvesic and Jonny May were high profile transfers in the off-season but all ended up on the losing side while their former clubs won. Conversely, Ed Slater was a winner, while his old team lost. Can't read anything into that but it probably won't have escaped the notice of the players themselves.

Ford had a mixed day with his kicking, which is a shame, since he handled things well in Argentina. If he'd nailed the conversion of Jonny May's first try, then Leicester could have tried kicking that last penalty instead of going for touch and a shaky lineout. Slade also missed a key kick for Exeter.

It's a reminder that England have a number of goal kickers around the squad but not sure any currently could manage the consistency Farrell has shown at Test level.

yappysnap wrote:Congrats LI!

I was concerned about this game going into it, as we never seem to play well in the opening games, and Irish would be looking to target it

Sadly correct. We were crap. We looked lazy, unfit and stunned that LI wanted to play.

Irish on the other hand looked hungry, had a game plan they stuck to that worked. And you could see the players playing for each other.

The coaches at Quins need to change, the team culture looks shot and we look brainless, JK was never the correct call and Minty is not a defense coach.

I couldn't agree more. I have Quins being the relegation side on that dire performance. It was very poor all across the park. They looked like a side poorly prepared or just not interested or both. In some cases they looked too fat and unfit as well. The coaches must get another job because they have failed spectacularly.