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Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

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Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2 - Page 19 Empty Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

Post by profitius Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Continued from this one. https://www.606v2.com/t63658-irish-provinces-news-gossip-thread-2016-17
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Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2 - Page 19 Empty Re: Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

Post by Brendan Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:43 pm

Agree on the championship, with that all but gone adding in all the SA players filling spots in the Premership it will be hard to get jobs as it might have been 10 years ago.

Think some of the Irish players might end up in the other pro14 squads. Ealing might also be looking for a Premership squad so might be a saving grace.

Someone like Sexton if let go will retire as he isn't worth the money he would want.

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Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2 - Page 19 Empty Re: Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

Post by Pot Hale Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:48 pm

From Gordon Darcy in The Irish Times today:

Amidst the euphoria of beating the All Blacks in Chicago four years ago, David Nucifora might well have glanced down from Trump Tower at the alchemy Theo Epstein had conjured for The Cubs and thought: ‘I can achieve something similar with Irish rugby.’

The World Series is a lofty ambition but over that heady weekend in 2016 anything seemed possible.
Epstein – who also removed ‘Curse of the Bambino’ hanging over The Boston Red Sox – recently walked away from Chicago, nine years into an executive role that he believes should never exceed a decade.
“It became really clear that we’d be facing some significant long-term decisions this winter, decisions with long-term impacts,’’ Epstein explained. “Those types of decisions are really best made by somebody who’s going to be here for a long time, not just for one more year. Jed Hoyer clearly is that person.’’
The cleanest of transition allows the 46-year-old Epstein to leave a stunning legacy of high performance in baseball.

Six years ago Nucifora arrived on Lansdowne Road, into a position essentially created to suit his expertise as an overseer of the island’s professional structures, with a plan to apply to Irish rugby what sort of worked in Australia and New Zealand.


There are way too many outstanding questions about what Nucifora is doing for Irish rugby’s long term future and his refusal to answer them this week should not be accepted by anyone who truly cares about the game.

Plenty of the issues evident in 2013 are still on the agenda.
What happened to plans to deliver a three-strong depth chart in every position, especially after Ireland were so badly exposed at the 2015 World Cup? Put it another way, why are injury numbers off the charts again?

The Monday press conference after playing Georgia was a strategic decision that backfired spectacularly.
Unbowed, the Sevens programme sounds like Nucifora’s solution to almost every problem. Hugo Keenan and Will Connors are the examples he rolled out but that suggests neither player would have come through the ranks regardless.

What’s happening with the club and school scene, David?
Answer: I am too busy running the professional game.
That alone should send alarm bells ringing through the grassroots.
Who has seen last year’s World Cup review, David?
Answer: “It was distributed to the people who needed to read it.”
Ok, who?
Answer: “People within Irish rugby who were going to benefit from it.”
If anyone has laid eyes on this sacred document, drop us an email (we are presuming it exists).
A media strategy that essentially sticks two fingers up at anyone who asks a question Nucifora does not have an answer to is bad business for everyone involved.

As much as Nucifora’s refusal to discuss player contracts with agents is about stark financial realities, it is also a negotiation tool
What about the “performance anxiety” cited as a major issue in Japan (and so obviously still in existence)?
Answer: “It has been addressed.”
No detail followed because Nucifora does not believe he is accountable to the Irish public. This is clear as day in his attitude.
What about France 2023, David, how do Ireland avoid being quarter-final cannon fodder yet again?
Answer: “As we get closer to 2023 I’ll come back to you and let you know what the score will be in the semi final.”
Is the World Cup semi-final still a goal?
Answer: “I’d like to get to the final.”
This was delivered with a laugh. Accountability has to matter.

The Nucifora plan to fill the power vacuum created by foreign players, CJ Stander and Bundee Aki in particular, now the recruitment via residency is over, remains very light on detail. Essentially, he is doubling down on the granny rule coupled with seeping Sevens rugby into GAA heartlands and untapped populations like west Dublin.

How exactly will this be done?
Answer: Introducing Sevens to schools “that don’t play rugby as a fixed sport.”
The areas and schools that will be targeted remain a mystery.
Maybe 2018 was as good as it is going to get
Nucifora answered the questions he felt like answering perhaps because he does not consider himself answerable to anyone, which begs the question: who in the IRFU does he report to and what are his key performance indicators?
People deserve to know.

Nucifora was hired as the panacea for professional issues beyond the scope of amateur committee men. The turkeys voted for Christmas but, right now, the former Wallaby hooker appears to be causing as many problems as he is solving.
What, for example, does success look like for him?
Maybe 2018 was as good as it is going to get. Maybe the Six Nations Grand Slam is Ireland’s world series of baseball because if we judge Nucifora’s tenure on World Cups, by his own yardstick, it has been a failure.
All of this makes me very worried for the long term future of Irish rugby as we enter a period where every decision will have a massive impact 10 years from now.
Epstein realised he was not the man to guide The Chicago Cubs out of the pandemic and into the great beyond. The media enquired about Nucifora’s plans for the future and he responded by showing everyone how evasive he can be on a Microsoft Teams call.

As much as Nucifora’s refusal to discuss player contracts with agents is about stark financial realities, it is also a negotiation tool. He is very skilled in this regard and deserves credit for keeping all the players Irish rugby needed – besides Simon Zebo and Donnacha Ryan who both decided to leave but can only be wondering how many caps they left on the table – but, currently, 50 per cent of the country’s playing staff have no financial security beyond July.

That’s a lot of stressed families at Christmas. It is also half our national squad heading into the 2021 Six Nations feeling like they are playing for their livelihood - never a wise means of motivation – while getting their agents to find viable alternatives abroad. Just in case.

The Ben Healy to Glasgow story is only the start of players reacting to Nucifora’s silence. Healy’s next contract should not be a negotiation, it must be an investment in his rare talent. Otherwise, the Scots will pull off the granny rule with a young Munster outhalf.
Pandemic or not, Healy needs to be paid to market value.

Nucifora either refused to provide a clear plan during Monday’s press conference or he doesn’t have one. To my mind, the first is equally as troubling as the second.
Where are we going David and are you coming with us?
Some clarity about the IRFU’s medium term plans would be a sign of actual leadership. So long as the public is denied access to stadiums the drain on finance will be immense but Nucifora, by denying supporters access to any sort of roadmap, is causing more harm than good.
Under his direction, the union decided to appoint the national coaching team via a continuity plan. Attack coach Mike Catt is the only person who entered the system from abroad and now we have the entire England coaching ticket from 2015 working with Ireland, Munster and Leinster.
Farrell is correct about Twickenham being a 'priceless' experience. Creativity under intense pressure is what great rugby teams are all about
Stuart Lancaster was proved a superb hire by Leo Cullen, who four years ago was the problem child for Nucifora as Pat Lam, Les Kiss and Rassie Erasmus appeared to be improving the other provinces. Nucifora was unable to retain two of the three and he took ruthless action with Les during a coordinated rebuilding process in Ulster.

In theory, coaching continuity makes sense. Doubts are beginning to be raised – Shane Horgan has made some cutting remarks – but there is no need to panic on this front just yet. Andy Farrell’s team of coaches will get a pass for the shambolic set piece, scrum and rucking throughout the Autumn Nations Cup if Scotland are overcome.
How many passes does Nucifora get? Four more years could leave Irish rugby in a deeper hole than before he landed.

The hardest thing to do in any walk of life is to admit that something is not working. The pressure on winning against Scotland this Saturday is immense, and that burden is shared across the whole group.
When we see Ireland’s attack reverting to lone rangers carrying ball into a wall of bigger defenders – be they English or Georgians – we can state with certainty that this team is in a deep transition. I wrote before about players needing to respond to cues and prompts under pressure, but the default actions from Joe Schmidt’s time are still visible.

Pace and tempo feel like the only way out of the current mess. The last few outings have looked like a ‘game play’ developed during lockdown that wasn’t fit for purpose inside the acid chamber of Twickenham.

I do not believe Andy Farrell has a single issue with communication so I am led to believe this new(ish) coaching team have designed the wrong tactical approach for the players at their disposal.
Play a style that suits the players. Not the other way round

Farrell is correct about Twickenham being a “priceless” experience. Creativity under intense pressure is what great rugby teams are all about but if the coaches attempted to replicate Maro Itoje’s behaviour at training, a full blooded session would result in punches and injury.

Let’s put the best pack onto the field: Andrew Porter, Ronán Kelleher, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, CJ Stander, Will Connors and Caelan Doris with Cian Healy, Ryan Baird and a fully charged Dan Leavy off the bench.

Ireland would be super mobile but still lightweight. I bet even that eight would struggle against England, France and Georgia under the current tactical approach.

Eddie Jones had Ireland sussed after scoring two tries off a counter attack and cross field kick. The rest of the match was Eddie laughing from the stand: ‘Here, scummy Irish, have the ball, Maro and the boys will hammer you backwards all day long.’

If the one off runners reappear against Scotland this Saturday then the coaches have got both the strategy and selection wrong. Now is the time to show some value from a marathon camp in Carton House (if those walls could talk). Fix the fundamentals before delivering a game with pace and tempo. Play a style that suits the players. Not the other way round.
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Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2 - Page 19 Empty Re: Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

Post by Pete330v2 Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:33 pm

Pot Hale wrote:From Gordon Darcy in The Irish Times today:

Amidst the euphoria of beating the All Blacks in Chicago four years ago, David Nucifora might well have glanced down from Trump Tower at the alchemy Theo Epstein had conjured for The Cubs and thought: ‘I can achieve something similar with Irish rugby.’

The World Series is a lofty ambition but over that heady weekend in 2016 anything seemed possible.
Epstein – who also removed ‘Curse of the Bambino’ hanging over The Boston Red Sox – recently walked away from Chicago, nine years into an executive role that he believes should never exceed a decade.
“It became really clear that we’d be facing some significant long-term decisions this winter, decisions with long-term impacts,’’ Epstein explained. “Those types of decisions are really best made by somebody who’s going to be here for a long time, not just for one more year. Jed Hoyer clearly is that person.’’
The cleanest of transition allows the 46-year-old Epstein to leave a stunning legacy of high performance in baseball.

Six years ago Nucifora arrived on Lansdowne Road, into a position essentially created to suit his expertise as an overseer of the island’s professional structures, with a plan to apply to Irish rugby what sort of worked in Australia and New Zealand.


There are way too many outstanding questions about what Nucifora is doing for Irish rugby’s long term future and his refusal to answer them this week should not be accepted by anyone who truly cares about the game.

Plenty of the issues evident in 2013 are still on the agenda.
What happened to plans to deliver a three-strong depth chart in every position, especially after Ireland were so badly exposed at the 2015 World Cup? Put it another way, why are injury numbers off the charts again?
 
The Monday press conference after playing Georgia was a strategic decision that backfired spectacularly.
Unbowed, the Sevens programme sounds like Nucifora’s solution to almost every problem. Hugo Keenan and Will Connors are the examples he rolled out but that suggests neither player would have come through the ranks regardless.

What’s happening with the club and school scene, David?
Answer: I am too busy running the professional game.
That alone should send alarm bells ringing through the grassroots.
Who has seen last year’s World Cup review, David?
Answer: “It was distributed to the people who needed to read it.”
Ok, who?
Answer: “People within Irish rugby who were going to benefit from it.”
If anyone has laid eyes on this sacred document, drop us an email (we are presuming it exists).
A media strategy that essentially sticks two fingers up at anyone who asks a question Nucifora does not have an answer to is bad business for everyone involved.

As much as Nucifora’s refusal to discuss player contracts with agents is about stark financial realities, it is also a negotiation tool
What about the “performance anxiety” cited as a major issue in Japan (and so obviously still in existence)?
Answer: “It has been addressed.”
No detail followed because Nucifora does not believe he is accountable to the Irish public. This is clear as day in his attitude.
What about France 2023, David, how do Ireland avoid being quarter-final cannon fodder yet again?
Answer: “As we get closer to 2023 I’ll come back to you and let you know what the score will be in the semi final.”
Is the World Cup semi-final still a goal?
Answer: “I’d like to get to the final.”
This was delivered with a laugh. Accountability has to matter.

The Nucifora plan to fill the power vacuum created by foreign players, CJ Stander and Bundee Aki in particular, now the recruitment via residency is over, remains very light on detail. Essentially, he is doubling down on the granny rule coupled with seeping Sevens rugby into GAA heartlands and untapped populations like west Dublin.

How exactly will this be done?
Answer: Introducing Sevens to schools “that don’t play rugby as a fixed sport.”
The areas and schools that will be targeted remain a mystery.
Maybe 2018 was as good as it is going to get
Nucifora answered the questions he felt like answering perhaps because he does not consider himself answerable to anyone, which begs the question: who in the IRFU does he report to and what are his key performance indicators?
People deserve to know.

Nucifora was hired as the panacea for professional issues beyond the scope of amateur committee men. The turkeys voted for Christmas but, right now, the former Wallaby hooker appears to be causing as many problems as he is solving.
What, for example, does success look like for him?
Maybe 2018 was as good as it is going to get. Maybe the Six Nations Grand Slam is Ireland’s world series of baseball because if we judge Nucifora’s tenure on World Cups, by his own yardstick, it has been a failure.
All of this makes me very worried for the long term future of Irish rugby as we enter a period where every decision will have a massive impact 10 years from now.
Epstein realised he was not the man to guide The Chicago Cubs out of the pandemic and into the great beyond. The media enquired about Nucifora’s plans for the future and he responded by showing everyone how evasive he can be on a Microsoft Teams call.

As much as Nucifora’s refusal to discuss player contracts with agents is about stark financial realities, it is also a negotiation tool. He is very skilled in this regard and deserves credit for keeping all the players Irish rugby needed – besides Simon Zebo and Donnacha Ryan who both decided to leave but can only be wondering how many caps they left on the table – but, currently, 50 per cent of the country’s playing staff have no financial security beyond July.

That’s a lot of stressed families at Christmas. It is also half our national squad heading into the 2021 Six Nations feeling like they are playing for their livelihood - never a wise means of motivation – while getting their agents to find viable alternatives abroad. Just in case.

The Ben Healy to Glasgow story is only the start of players reacting to Nucifora’s silence. Healy’s next contract should not be a negotiation, it must be an investment in his rare talent. Otherwise, the Scots will pull off the granny rule with a young Munster outhalf.
Pandemic or not, Healy needs to be paid to market value.

Nucifora either refused to provide a clear plan during Monday’s press conference or he doesn’t have one. To my mind, the first is equally as troubling as the second.
Where are we going David and are you coming with us?
Some clarity about the IRFU’s medium term plans would be a sign of actual leadership. So long as the public is denied access to stadiums the drain on finance will be immense but Nucifora, by denying supporters access to any sort of roadmap, is causing more harm than good.
Under his direction, the union decided to appoint the national coaching team via a continuity plan. Attack coach Mike Catt is the only person who entered the system from abroad and now we have the entire England coaching ticket from 2015 working with Ireland, Munster and Leinster.
Farrell is correct about Twickenham being a 'priceless' experience. Creativity under intense pressure is what great rugby teams are all about
Stuart Lancaster was proved a superb hire by Leo Cullen, who four years ago was the problem child for Nucifora as Pat Lam, Les Kiss and Rassie Erasmus appeared to be improving the other provinces. Nucifora was unable to retain two of the three and he took ruthless action with Les during a coordinated rebuilding process in Ulster.

In theory, coaching continuity makes sense. Doubts are beginning to be raised – Shane Horgan has made some cutting remarks – but there is no need to panic on this front just yet. Andy Farrell’s team of coaches will get a pass for the shambolic set piece, scrum and rucking throughout the Autumn Nations Cup if Scotland are overcome.
How many passes does Nucifora get? Four more years could leave Irish rugby in a deeper hole than before he landed.

The hardest thing to do in any walk of life is to admit that something is not working. The pressure on winning against Scotland this Saturday is immense, and that burden is shared across the whole group.
When we see Ireland’s attack reverting to lone rangers carrying ball into a wall of bigger defenders – be they English or Georgians – we can state with certainty that this team is in a deep transition. I wrote before about players needing to respond to cues and prompts under pressure, but the default actions from Joe Schmidt’s time are still visible.

Pace and tempo feel like the only way out of the current mess. The last few outings have looked like a ‘game play’ developed during lockdown that wasn’t fit for purpose inside the acid chamber of Twickenham.

I do not believe Andy Farrell has a single issue with communication so I am led to believe this new(ish) coaching team have designed the wrong tactical approach for the players at their disposal.
Play a style that suits the players. Not the other way round

Farrell is correct about Twickenham being a “priceless” experience. Creativity under intense pressure is what great rugby teams are all about but if the coaches attempted to replicate Maro Itoje’s behaviour at training, a full blooded session would result in punches and injury.

Let’s put the best pack onto the field: Andrew Porter, Ronán Kelleher, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, CJ Stander, Will Connors and Caelan Doris with Cian Healy, Ryan Baird and a fully charged Dan Leavy off the bench.

Ireland would be super mobile but still lightweight. I bet even that eight would struggle against England, France and Georgia under the current tactical approach.

Eddie Jones had Ireland sussed after scoring two tries off a counter attack and cross field kick. The rest of the match was Eddie laughing from the stand: ‘Here, scummy Irish, have the ball, Maro and the boys will hammer you backwards all day long.’

If the one off runners reappear against Scotland this Saturday then the coaches have got both the strategy and selection wrong. Now is the time to show some value from a marathon camp in Carton House (if those walls could talk). Fix the fundamentals before delivering a game with pace and tempo. Play a style that suits the players. Not the other way round.

clap clap clap clap clap clap

"Play a style that suits the players. Not the other way round."
It seems to work OK at Leinster!

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Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2 - Page 19 Empty Re: Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

Post by Brendan Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:29 pm

Healy would be number 2 at Glasgow with a number one away at Scotland. At Munster is he ahead of Hanrahan, it's hard to say. If Munster see him as important he will be kept. If he needs to do some growing why not spend to years learning from Hastings.

There is alot of issues still to be resolved regards covid. I think it is a good idea to wait and see then commit to players and then have to do cost cutting in 6 months if it does go well

Also the Leinster System isn't known for its love of David

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Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2 - Page 19 Empty Re: Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

Post by Gooseberry Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:02 am

Pete330v2 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:From Gordon Darcy in The Irish Times today:

Amidst the euphoria of beating the All Blacks in Chicago four years ago, David Nucifora might well have glanced down from Trump Tower at the alchemy Theo Epstein had conjured for The Cubs and thought: ‘I can achieve something similar with Irish rugby.’

The World Series is a lofty ambition but over that heady weekend in 2016 anything seemed possible.
Epstein – who also removed ‘Curse of the Bambino’ hanging over The Boston Red Sox – recently walked away from Chicago, nine years into an executive role that he believes should never exceed a decade.
“It became really clear that we’d be facing some significant long-term decisions this winter, decisions with long-term impacts,’’ Epstein explained. “Those types of decisions are really best made by somebody who’s going to be here for a long time, not just for one more year. Jed Hoyer clearly is that person.’’
The cleanest of transition allows the 46-year-old Epstein to leave a stunning legacy of high performance in baseball.

Six years ago Nucifora arrived on Lansdowne Road, into a position essentially created to suit his expertise as an overseer of the island’s professional structures, with a plan to apply to Irish rugby what sort of worked in Australia and New Zealand.


There are way too many outstanding questions about what Nucifora is doing for Irish rugby’s long term future and his refusal to answer them this week should not be accepted by anyone who truly cares about the game.

Plenty of the issues evident in 2013 are still on the agenda.
What happened to plans to deliver a three-strong depth chart in every position, especially after Ireland were so badly exposed at the 2015 World Cup? Put it another way, why are injury numbers off the charts again?
 
The Monday press conference after playing Georgia was a strategic decision that backfired spectacularly.
Unbowed, the Sevens programme sounds like Nucifora’s solution to almost every problem. Hugo Keenan and Will Connors are the examples he rolled out but that suggests neither player would have come through the ranks regardless.

What’s happening with the club and school scene, David?
Answer: I am too busy running the professional game.
That alone should send alarm bells ringing through the grassroots.
Who has seen last year’s World Cup review, David?
Answer: “It was distributed to the people who needed to read it.”
Ok, who?
Answer: “People within Irish rugby who were going to benefit from it.”
If anyone has laid eyes on this sacred document, drop us an email (we are presuming it exists).
A media strategy that essentially sticks two fingers up at anyone who asks a question Nucifora does not have an answer to is bad business for everyone involved.

As much as Nucifora’s refusal to discuss player contracts with agents is about stark financial realities, it is also a negotiation tool
What about the “performance anxiety” cited as a major issue in Japan (and so obviously still in existence)?
Answer: “It has been addressed.”
No detail followed because Nucifora does not believe he is accountable to the Irish public. This is clear as day in his attitude.
What about France 2023, David, how do Ireland avoid being quarter-final cannon fodder yet again?
Answer: “As we get closer to 2023 I’ll come back to you and let you know what the score will be in the semi final.”
Is the World Cup semi-final still a goal?
Answer: “I’d like to get to the final.”
This was delivered with a laugh. Accountability has to matter.

The Nucifora plan to fill the power vacuum created by foreign players, CJ Stander and Bundee Aki in particular, now the recruitment via residency is over, remains very light on detail. Essentially, he is doubling down on the granny rule coupled with seeping Sevens rugby into GAA heartlands and untapped populations like west Dublin.

How exactly will this be done?
Answer: Introducing Sevens to schools “that don’t play rugby as a fixed sport.”
The areas and schools that will be targeted remain a mystery.
Maybe 2018 was as good as it is going to get
Nucifora answered the questions he felt like answering perhaps because he does not consider himself answerable to anyone, which begs the question: who in the IRFU does he report to and what are his key performance indicators?
People deserve to know.

Nucifora was hired as the panacea for professional issues beyond the scope of amateur committee men. The turkeys voted for Christmas but, right now, the former Wallaby hooker appears to be causing as many problems as he is solving.
What, for example, does success look like for him?
Maybe 2018 was as good as it is going to get. Maybe the Six Nations Grand Slam is Ireland’s world series of baseball because if we judge Nucifora’s tenure on World Cups, by his own yardstick, it has been a failure.
All of this makes me very worried for the long term future of Irish rugby as we enter a period where every decision will have a massive impact 10 years from now.
Epstein realised he was not the man to guide The Chicago Cubs out of the pandemic and into the great beyond. The media enquired about Nucifora’s plans for the future and he responded by showing everyone how evasive he can be on a Microsoft Teams call.

As much as Nucifora’s refusal to discuss player contracts with agents is about stark financial realities, it is also a negotiation tool. He is very skilled in this regard and deserves credit for keeping all the players Irish rugby needed – besides Simon Zebo and Donnacha Ryan who both decided to leave but can only be wondering how many caps they left on the table – but, currently, 50 per cent of the country’s playing staff have no financial security beyond July.

That’s a lot of stressed families at Christmas. It is also half our national squad heading into the 2021 Six Nations feeling like they are playing for their livelihood - never a wise means of motivation – while getting their agents to find viable alternatives abroad. Just in case.

The Ben Healy to Glasgow story is only the start of players reacting to Nucifora’s silence. Healy’s next contract should not be a negotiation, it must be an investment in his rare talent. Otherwise, the Scots will pull off the granny rule with a young Munster outhalf.
Pandemic or not, Healy needs to be paid to market value.

Nucifora either refused to provide a clear plan during Monday’s press conference or he doesn’t have one. To my mind, the first is equally as troubling as the second.
Where are we going David and are you coming with us?
Some clarity about the IRFU’s medium term plans would be a sign of actual leadership. So long as the public is denied access to stadiums the drain on finance will be immense but Nucifora, by denying supporters access to any sort of roadmap, is causing more harm than good.
Under his direction, the union decided to appoint the national coaching team via a continuity plan. Attack coach Mike Catt is the only person who entered the system from abroad and now we have the entire England coaching ticket from 2015 working with Ireland, Munster and Leinster.
Farrell is correct about Twickenham being a 'priceless' experience. Creativity under intense pressure is what great rugby teams are all about
Stuart Lancaster was proved a superb hire by Leo Cullen, who four years ago was the problem child for Nucifora as Pat Lam, Les Kiss and Rassie Erasmus appeared to be improving the other provinces. Nucifora was unable to retain two of the three and he took ruthless action with Les during a coordinated rebuilding process in Ulster.

In theory, coaching continuity makes sense. Doubts are beginning to be raised – Shane Horgan has made some cutting remarks – but there is no need to panic on this front just yet. Andy Farrell’s team of coaches will get a pass for the shambolic set piece, scrum and rucking throughout the Autumn Nations Cup if Scotland are overcome.
How many passes does Nucifora get? Four more years could leave Irish rugby in a deeper hole than before he landed.

The hardest thing to do in any walk of life is to admit that something is not working. The pressure on winning against Scotland this Saturday is immense, and that burden is shared across the whole group.
When we see Ireland’s attack reverting to lone rangers carrying ball into a wall of bigger defenders – be they English or Georgians – we can state with certainty that this team is in a deep transition. I wrote before about players needing to respond to cues and prompts under pressure, but the default actions from Joe Schmidt’s time are still visible.

Pace and tempo feel like the only way out of the current mess. The last few outings have looked like a ‘game play’ developed during lockdown that wasn’t fit for purpose inside the acid chamber of Twickenham.

I do not believe Andy Farrell has a single issue with communication so I am led to believe this new(ish) coaching team have designed the wrong tactical approach for the players at their disposal.
Play a style that suits the players. Not the other way round

Farrell is correct about Twickenham being a “priceless” experience. Creativity under intense pressure is what great rugby teams are all about but if the coaches attempted to replicate Maro Itoje’s behaviour at training, a full blooded session would result in punches and injury.

Let’s put the best pack onto the field: Andrew Porter, Ronán Kelleher, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, CJ Stander, Will Connors and Caelan Doris with Cian Healy, Ryan Baird and a fully charged Dan Leavy off the bench.

Ireland would be super mobile but still lightweight. I bet even that eight would struggle against England, France and Georgia under the current tactical approach.

Eddie Jones had Ireland sussed after scoring two tries off a counter attack and cross field kick. The rest of the match was Eddie laughing from the stand: ‘Here, scummy Irish, have the ball, Maro and the boys will hammer you backwards all day long.’

If the one off runners reappear against Scotland this Saturday then the coaches have got both the strategy and selection wrong. Now is the time to show some value from a marathon camp in Carton House (if those walls could talk). Fix the fundamentals before delivering a game with pace and tempo. Play a style that suits the players. Not the other way round.

clap clap clap clap clap clap

"Play a style that suits the players. Not the other way round."
It seems to work OK at Leinster!

Similar views expressed here by Matt Williams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeCmwCnpQQk

Second half of this focuses on the contract situation and difficult choices for the IRFU in who they choose to fund and chances of losing players to France. Also the impact of weak competition on the development of Irish players and devaluing of the Pro14 as a product.

Also the problems of the weak opposition in the Pro 14 harming Irish players and harming the product.

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Post by profitius Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:04 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Very Happy the very Irish Joe Maksymiw. Born in Derby, educated in Loughborough and came through the Tigers academy.

There's always been more Irish players than spaces available in Ireland. Similar with Wales. You'll find plenty of players of not quite top level filling out the ranks in the Championship. Some are late developers and end up making it in the Prem or head back home. One of the many reasons the loss of a professional Championship is a loss to NH rugby. I guess those players might get picked up by the French second division instead.

Ireland have had a golden generation and are rebuilding. At some point the hard part comes and you have to let the big names go because they aren't the same players they were and you don't want to keep them in contracts past their peak at the risk they become dead wood blocking the best talent coming through. The IRU might well use the pandemic as a good excuse to being forward what might have been done over a couple of years but Ireland do have talent coming through.

Good point. There's 2 schools of thought on it. One is they'll try to keep most of the players except one or two older and injury prone players. The second is they'll have a big clear out of older players with the exception of one or two ( like Sexton) and essentially clearing the way for the young players.

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Post by profitius Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:10 pm

Brendan wrote:Healy would be number 2 at Glasgow with a number one away at Scotland.  At Munster is he ahead of Hanrahan, it's hard to say.  If Munster see him as important he will be kept.  If he needs to do some growing why not spend to years learning from Hastings.

There is alot of issues still to be resolved regards covid.  I think it is a good idea to wait and see then commit to players and then have to do cost cutting in 6 months if it does go well

Also the Leinster System isn't known for its love of David


He would be a loss for Munster. Already established himself ahead of JJ imo. Would be a good signing for Glasgow although it remains to be seen if his form is a flash in the pan.
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Post by Brendan Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:52 pm

profitius wrote:
Brendan wrote:Healy would be number 2 at Glasgow with a number one away at Scotland.  At Munster is he ahead of Hanrahan, it's hard to say.  If Munster see him as important he will be kept.  If he needs to do some growing why not spend to years learning from Hastings.

There is alot of issues still to be resolved regards covid.  I think it is a good idea to wait and see then commit to players and then have to do cost cutting in 6 months if it does go well

Also the Leinster System isn't known for its love of David


He would be a loss for Munster. Already established himself ahead of JJ imo. Would be a good signing for Glasgow although it remains to be seen if his form is a flash in the pan.

It would be a short term loss but think that it would build him up as it takes him out of the comfort zone.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:44 am

A scottish side wouldn't be signing him if the SRU didn't have a commitment on player for Scotland from the player surely.

Anyone know who Healy's agent is? Any links to d'arcy? Or is it just that there are plenty of knives coming out for Nucifora. There are plenty of people that he's pissed off over the years, I'm just wondering is there anything specific now. Or is Darcy looking at the greater good here, he French sort out their squads by end of January each year so this is the month that IRFU need to step up and commit the cash or they'll loose players in the uncertainty (and are the irfu looking to lose some players that way as it'll be the player choosing to leave rather than the irfu telling them it's over and using the limited cash on the rest of the roster). Interesting times for a rugby fan.... livelihoods on the line for the players.

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Post by profitius Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:21 pm

Gavin Cummiskey:


The IRFU’s refusal to enter negotiations despite 50 per cent of their professional players being out of contract next July has led to agents offering some of Ireland’s top internationals to French clubs.

The agents believe their hands have been forced. “In the next couple of weeks we will have firm offers from clubs in France and the IRFU have not engaged or made any offers at all,” said a senior sports agent. “It’s seems absolutely bonkers.”

The Irish Times has spoken to several leading rugby agents – all spoke anonymously to avoid damaging their clients’ future prospects – and many believe that IRFU performance director David Nucifora is stalling talks until French and English clubs have completed recruitment for next season.

“Is [Nucifora] waiting for French and English clubs to do their business? Of course he is,” said another agent. “It is nothing to do with money. The IRFU leave the negotiations as long as they can because they know there will be less options.”

Nucifora is refusing to meet player representatives even in an informal setting.

‘Low-ball offer’
A veteran Irish international also says that “very limited information” is being relayed to players. And there is a growing fear that they are missing out on opportunities to move abroad which, in turn, allows the IRFU to come in with “a low-ball offer when other options have evaporated”.

Another agent, however, expressed sympathy for Nucifora’s inability to fully know the IRFU’s financial position until the Government makes a decision on crowds returning to stadiums in 2021.

“It has actually worked out very well for players to be aware of their options outside of Ireland. Normally the top-end players don’t get this opportunity as the IRFU and the provinces are very proactive in initiating contract discussions,” said the agent

Initial conversations have occurred between agents and the provinces, so players could be informed that they are wanted. However, no financial offers can be made until Nucifora says so despite up to 100 professionals being out of contract next summer.

The performance director said on Monday there will be no discussions until after Christmas.

An agent also noted that “positive news around vaccines and the likelihood of crowds returning before next season” would alter the value of each deal.

Nucifora, who has administered the professional game in Ireland since 2014, reiterated this week that selection for Ireland will only be open to players contracted to Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Ulster.

Another agent cannot understand why Nucifora – the twice capped Wallaby hooker – has not chosen to negotiate contracts that can be increased or reduced based on income the IRFU earns from supporters entering stadiums next year.

“There is a way of dealing with that if the IRFU say, ‘here is the offer we are willing to give in normal circumstances – that is your value – but there is a phased reduction that goes up and down whether we are at 25 per cent, 50 per cent or 100 per cent capacity.’ ”

Influential young players like Garry Ringrose, James Ryan and Jacob Stockdale signed lucrative deals last season but several veterans are facing into a worrying financial period as the IRFU refuses to engage in discussions.

“I know there is a lot of frustration on the players going into Christmas with no security.”
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Post by Pot Hale Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:40 pm

Good win by Connacht tonight against Benetton - 31-14. 5 points in the bag from 1 of their 3 catch-up games. The others won't be played until New Year. It moves them into second spot, 4 points ahead of Scarlets with a game in hand on them.

Paul Boyle was a deserved man of the match playing a stormer at number 8 and captaining the side, scoring a hat-trick of tries and making light of the absence of his supposed mentor Papallii getting a second red card in a few weeks and getting a fair bit of a ban as a result.

One for Farrell to consider.

Caolin Blade delivered snappy service to the ever-improving Conor Fitzgerald who must be glad he moved out of Munster to get increasing game time at the expense of Jack Carty. He kicked well in the fairly blustery conditions. Alex Wootton scored another for the men in green.

Club captain, Jarrad Butler, who played from the bench tonight said they're looking forward to the visit of Bristol under their old coach, Pat Lam, and their old captain and longtime club servant, now asst coach, John Muldoon.

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Post by profitius Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:54 pm

Munster contract situation. Out of contracted players are bolded.


Diarmuid Barron 2021
Kevin O'Byrne 2022
Rhys Marshall 2021
Niall Scannell 2023

Scott Buckley Year 1
Eoghan Clarke Year 3


James Cronin 2021
Dave Kilcoyne 2023
Liam O'Connor 2022
Jeremy Loughman 2022

Josh Wycherley Year 3


Stephen Archer 2022
Keynan Knox 2022
John Ryan 2022
Roman Salanoa 2022
James French 2022


Tadhg Beirne 2022
Jean Kleyn 2022
RG Snyman 2022
Fineen Wycherley 2021

Thomas Ahern Year 3
Paddy Kelly Year 2
Eoin O'Connor Year 2


Gavin Coombes 2023
Chris Cloete 2022
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2023
Peter O'Mahony 2023
Jack O'Sullivan 2023
CJ Stander 2021
John Hodnett 2023

Jack Daly Year 3
Alex Kendellen Year 1


Craig Casey 2023
Neil Cronin 2023
Nick McCarthy 2021
Conor Murray 2022


Joey Carbery 2022
JJ Hanrahan 2021
Jake Flannery 2022
Ben Healy 2022

Jack Crowley Year 1


Damian de Allende 2022
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2022
Alex McHenry 2022
Rory Scannell 2023


Sean French 2022
Andrew Conway 2023
Liam Coombes 2022
Shane Daly 2023
Keith Earls 2022
Matt Gallagher 2022
Mike Haley 2023
Calvin Nash 2023
Darren Sweetnam 2021

Jonathan Wren Year 3

2021/22 NIEs:
RG Snyman (capped), Damian de Allende (capped)

IN:
OUT: Billy Holland ( retirement)

Leaving (bit of guesswork): Nick McCarthy (to Leinster), Wren, Sweetnam, Clarke, Marshall, TOD (retirement), Jack Daly, Hanrahan.

They need to get the Wycherley brothers, Ahern, Stander signed up.
Heard conflicting rumours about Hanrahan but with Jake Flannery signing it might indicate that he's leaving.
Marshall might be kept on too but with his injury record and Scannell signed, he's in danger of facing the chop.
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Post by Oakdene Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:15 am

CJ Stander to retire at the end of the season?

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Post by Pete330v2 Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:30 am

Oakdene wrote:CJ Stander to retire at the end of the season?

That's come as a bit of a shock to say the least but with the reasons he's stated it's understandable.....underSTANDERble !!

Added to his own personal reasons you have the emergence of Coombes and Hodnett who despite their youth were looking like taking his shirt rather rapidly.

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Post by RiscaGame Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:32 am

Crikey, it is a bit out of the blue. All the best to him, especially if he makes the British and Irish Lions squad as that could be some way to bow out.

Just read his full statement. Seems like the best decision for him definitely.

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Post by The Oracle Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:40 am

Yes just read that. Shocked. Something tells me we'll see him turning out for a SA side in the future. Maybe a bit of time with the family and moving back home, but then securing a contract with a Super Rugby side? He's only 31. A long time retired. He states his main things were the sacrifices his family have made for him to play rugby, but playing at home might mean the strains and pressures of juggling family and pro sport are significantly reduced. Although I'm just guessing really.

A quality player. Never looked forward to Wales facing him. Sorry to see him go though.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:00 am

Pete330v2 wrote:
Oakdene wrote:CJ Stander to retire at the end of the season?

That's come as a bit of a shock to say the least but with the reasons he's stated it's understandable.....underSTANDERble !!

Added to his own personal reasons you have the emergence of Coombes and Hodnett who despite their youth were looking like taking his shirt rather rapidly.

Yes but that's normally ideal succession planning. Your 31 year old player has to start battling a developing player for the shirt who has to keep pushing and learning in order to take the position. Over the next year or so the young gun moves ahead of the experienced guy as he starts bowing out as he hits 33ish. Surely a blow for Munster and Ireland to lose him now.

Got to put family first though so hopefully this is the best move for him and them. In sure he's had a lot of offers, if he's got himself a player/coach role close to home that will allow to be around a lot more then perfect.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:11 am

I thought he would go for that France deal that was rumoured. He's got a lot of playing days left by the look of it. Bulls not interested?

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:48 pm

Stander has been a great servant to Munster and Ireland. He doesn't owe anything from his time here. POM will still be around to look after the youngsters and hopefully the void might for Jack O'D to mature a bit more into a pack leader too.

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Post by profitius Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:14 pm

There were rumours but it's still a surprise. I presume the match against England will be his last for ireland. Great servant and nice guy.
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Post by profitius Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:26 am

profitius wrote:Munster contract situation. Out of contracted players are bolded.


Diarmuid Barron 2021
Kevin O'Byrne 2022
Rhys Marshall 2021
Niall Scannell 2023

Scott Buckley Year 1
Eoghan Clarke Year 3


James Cronin 2021
Dave Kilcoyne 2023
Liam O'Connor 2022
Jeremy Loughman 2022

Josh Wycherley Year 3


Stephen Archer 2022
Keynan Knox 2022
John Ryan 2022
Roman Salanoa 2022
James French 2022


Tadhg Beirne 2022
Jean Kleyn 2022
RG Snyman 2022
Fineen Wycherley 2021

Thomas Ahern Year 3
Paddy Kelly Year 2
Eoin O'Connor Year 2


Gavin Coombes 2023
Chris Cloete 2022
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2023
Peter O'Mahony 2023
Jack O'Sullivan 2023
CJ Stander 2021
John Hodnett 2023

Jack Daly Year 3
Alex Kendellen Year 1


Craig Casey 2023
Neil Cronin 2023
Nick McCarthy 2021
Conor Murray 2022


Joey Carbery 2022
JJ Hanrahan 2021
Jake Flannery 2022
Ben Healy 2022

Jack Crowley Year 1


Damian de Allende 2022
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2022
Alex McHenry 2022
Rory Scannell 2023


Sean French 2022
Andrew Conway 2023
Liam Coombes 2022
Shane Daly 2023
Keith Earls 2022
Matt Gallagher 2022
Mike Haley 2023
Calvin Nash 2023
Darren Sweetnam 2021

Jonathan Wren Year 3

2021/22 NIEs:
RG Snyman (capped), Damian de Allende (capped)

IN:
OUT: Billy Holland ( retirement)

Leaving (bit of guesswork): Nick McCarthy (to Leinster), Wren, Sweetnam, Clarke, Marshall, TOD (retirement), Jack Daly, Hanrahan.

They need to get the Wycherley brothers, Ahern, Stander signed up.
Heard conflicting rumours about Hanrahan but with Jake Flannery signing it might indicate that he's leaving.
Marshall might be kept on too but with his injury record and Scannell signed, he's in danger of facing the chop.


Looks like JJ Hanrahan is going to Clermont and McCarthy going back to leinster with Rowan Osbourne rumoured to be moving the opposite direction.


Out: Holland, Stander, Hanrahan
Rumoured out: Mccarthy, TOD, Sweetman, Marshall, J Cronin.
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Post by Pot Hale Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:59 pm

Interesting re McCarthy and Osbourne.

Sweetnam confirmed as leaving.  van Graan says they don't have the budget to keep him or Hanrahan.    Rhys Marshall is another failed nominated special project player.   O'Donnell age is understandable.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Kingshu Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:35 pm

Looks like Munster are signing NIQ SA lock Jason Jenkins

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Post by Maine man Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:31 pm

Where's Sweetman off to?

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:44 pm

Kingshu wrote:Looks like Munster are signing NIQ SA lock Jason Jenkins

He's been capped by SA. Will Munster be allowed to have both him and Snyman on the books or is Snyman off?

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:33 pm

He's capped, and wanted to add more. A good signing though. Is someone leaving? Kleyn seems to have been somewhat of a flop, but when available he shows his worth. I guess he could just be additional cover now that Beirne is firmly established as an Ireland starter.

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Post by Pot Hale Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:35 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:He's capped, and wanted to add more. A good signing though. Is someone leaving? Kleyn seems to have been somewhat of a flop, but when available he shows his worth. I guess he could just be additional cover now that Beirne is firmly established as an Ireland starter.

Mikey - I meant to say this to you previously but I appreciate your contributions particularly as a knowledgeable Welsh fan. You regularly bring fair and balanced comments to the Irish teams - you know your stuff.

Diolch.
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Post by Pot Hale Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:38 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Looks like Munster are signing NIQ SA lock Jason Jenkins

He's been capped by SA. Will Munster be allowed to have both him and Snyman on the books or is Snyman off?

Snyman's injury is taking longer than anticipated and Munster may decide to cut their losses - he came on a 2-year contract and was unlikely to be renewed. It's mainly private money that's paying his salary and the funder probably isn't too thrilled to be paying for a patient on a treatment table.

De Allende has been a fine contributor. The question is can he help develop midfield partners in his 2-year time there?
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Post by Kingshu Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:51 pm

Snyman is only one year into a two year contract, so he isn't leaving to make way for Jenkins.
It is a strange signing, Holland is retiring, but its not a position of weakness for Munster, with Syman, Kleyn, Beirne and Wycherley. Unless he is being signed as a backrow? You would have thought rather than allow a 4th NIQ player the IRFU would have told any other province to use its Acamady?

De Allende doesnt have to helpdevelop other centres durning his time, Munster have had at least one NIQ center since 2003, it doesn't appear the IRFU will push Munster to develop centers, they will get another NIQ center in if De Allende leaves.

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Post by Pot Hale Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:08 pm

With budget cuts and contract endings, Leinster are likely to lose Fardy, Bent and possibly Toner (35 in June) although he says he wants to earn 300 caps for Leinster now!! He's certainly been durable. Sean Cronin (35 in May) is another possibility of retiring.

Will Leinster want/be allowed to bring in another NIQ? With Fardy leaving, their senior squad and academy would be 100% Irish-qualified with Gibson-Park and Lowe the only 2 Residency qualified players. Abdaladze moved from Georgia at age 5 and seems to be recovering from a long-term back injury.

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Post by Pot Hale Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:16 pm

Kingshu wrote:Snyman is only one year into a two year contract, so he isn't leaving to make way for Jenkins.
It is a strange signing, Holland is retiring, but its not  a position of weakness for Munster, with Syman, Kleyn,  Beirne and Wycherley. Unless he is being signed as a backrow? You would have thought rather than allow a 4th NIQ player the IRFU would have told any other province to use its Acamady?

De Allende doesnt have to helpdevelop other centres durning his time, Munster have had at least one NIQ center since 2003, it doesn't appear the IRFU will push Munster to develop centers, they will get another NIQ center in if  De Allende leaves.

Backrow does look more bare with O'Donnell and Stander both departing.   Hodnett in second year at academy looks very promising.     Jenkins has some experience at blindside flanker - most recently at his current club - Toyota Verblitz as well as at the Bulls.

If Munster want to develop Wycherley and academy graduate Thomas Aherne (who looks very promising) in the second row, then Beirne may get more back row time with O'Mahony, O'Donoghue and Coombes at 8.
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Post by Kingshu Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:07 pm

Actually Pot that makes sense, I would hazard a guess that the IRFU want Beirne to play in the backrow more and Munster comprised and said they would need to get more cover at Lock and were allowed to sign an extra NIQ lock.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:48 am

Pot Hale wrote:  With Fardy leaving, their senior squad and academy would be 100% Irish-qualified with Gibson-Park and Lowe the only 2 Residency qualified players.  Abdaladze moved from Georgia at age 5 and seems to be recovering from a long-term back injury.


Regardless of when he arrived that makes Abdaladze Residency qualified.
There is no distinction between those who arrive as Children and those who arrived as Adults

I would not get too excited about further inputs.
As mention elsewhere Nucifora wants to see as few NIQ as possible.
Also, and very importantly, the pandemic has cut revenue sharply.

All senior Ulster players have taken a pay cut.
Gilroy is on half what he was before.
Nakarawa is coming in at half the salary of Coetzee.
Faddes salary is a big saving.

Similar cuts will be necessary elsewhere.

Also the TV revenue is likely to drop.

To add to the squeeze on finances - these contracts were negotiated on the assumption of no crowds in 20/21 but full crowds in 21/22 - far from certain.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:24 pm

Shows how much I know

Munster would appear to be signing South African lock Jason Jenkins

How come Ulster were told no more NIQ for next year.

Ulster have 2 NIQ+Residency qualified for next - could be 3 if Roberts gets a contract
Leinster have 3 in total all Residency qualified
Munster have 7 in total lined up for next year.

It really does seem to me, at least in recent years, Munster are treated differently

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:33 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:  With Fardy leaving, their senior squad and academy would be 100% Irish-qualified with Gibson-Park and Lowe the only 2 Residency qualified players.  Abdaladze moved from Georgia at age 5 and seems to be recovering from a long-term back injury.


Regardless of when he arrived that makes Abdaladze Residency qualified.
There is no distinction between those who arrive as Children and those who arrived as Adults

I would not get too excited about further inputs.
As mention elsewhere Nucifora wants to see as few NIQ as possible.
Also, and very importantly, the pandemic has cut revenue sharply.

All senior Ulster players have taken a pay cut.
Gilroy is on half what he was before.
Nakarawa is coming in at half the salary of Coetzee.
Faddes salary is a big saving.

Similar cuts will be necessary elsewhere.

Also the TV revenue is likely to drop.

To add to the squeeze on finances - these contracts were negotiated on the assumption of no crowds in 20/21 but full crowds in 21/22 - far from certain.
But Vakh is as Irish as Luke McGrath and Jordi Murphy. Its rediculous to put him on any sort of foreign player list

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Post by Pot Hale Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:34 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:  With Fardy leaving, their senior squad and academy would be 100% Irish-qualified with Gibson-Park and Lowe the only 2 Residency qualified players.  Abdaladze moved from Georgia at age 5 and seems to be recovering from a long-term back injury.


Regardless of when he arrived that makes Abdaladze Residency qualified.
There is no distinction between those who arrive as Children and those who arrived as Adults

I would not get too excited about further inputs.
As mention elsewhere Nucifora wants to see as few NIQ as possible.
Also, and very importantly, the pandemic has cut revenue sharply.

All senior Ulster players have taken a pay cut.
Gilroy is on half what he was before.
Nakarawa is coming in at half the salary of Coetzee.
Faddes salary is a big saving.

Similar cuts will be necessary elsewhere.

Also the TV revenue is likely to drop.

To add to the squeeze on finances - these contracts were negotiated on the assumption of no crowds in 20/21 but full crowds in 21/22 - far from certain.
But Vakh is as Irish as Luke McGrath and Jordi Murphy. Its ridiculous to put him on any sort of foreign player list

Agreed, LF4L - he qualified as a child. Not the same at all as a residency qualified professional player who came here after 18.
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Post by Kingshu Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:38 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:  With Fardy leaving, their senior squad and academy would be 100% Irish-qualified with Gibson-Park and Lowe the only 2 Residency qualified players.  Abdaladze moved from Georgia at age 5 and seems to be recovering from a long-term back injury.


Regardless of when he arrived that makes Abdaladze Residency qualified.
There is no distinction between those who arrive as Children and those who arrived as Adults

I would not get too excited about further inputs.
As mention elsewhere Nucifora wants to see as few NIQ as possible.
Also, and very importantly, the pandemic has cut revenue sharply.

All senior Ulster players have taken a pay cut.
Gilroy is on half what he was before.
Nakarawa is coming in at half the salary of Coetzee.
Faddes salary is a big saving.

Similar cuts will be necessary elsewhere.

Also the TV revenue is likely to drop.

To add to the squeeze on finances - these contracts were negotiated on the assumption of no crowds in 20/21 but full crowds in 21/22 - far from certain.
But Vakh is as Irish as Luke McGrath and Jordi Murphy. Its rediculous to put him on any sort of foreign player list

I disagree, Luke and Jordi have been Irish, and entitled to Irish citzenship and to represent Ireland since birth, Vakh hasn't.
I do agree its harsh to put him in with players like Lowe who are residency qualified but thats the reality of it.
3 ways to qualify for Ireland
1) Born in Ireland
2) have Irish parent or grandparent
3) qualify through residency

Vakh qualifed through option 3) same as Lowe the fact he did it at 7 years of age doesn't change it to qualifying as option 1 or 2.

It's a moot point anyway as it's only us fans that care how someone qualifed, the IRFU don't care if you qualified through 1,2 or 3 all they care is that you can represent Ireland.

For the books Vakh is residency qualifed, but played all his rugby in Leinster and came through the Leinster Acamady so while maybe not as Irish as some, he is as Leinster as can be.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:55 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:  With Fardy leaving, their senior squad and academy would be 100% Irish-qualified with Gibson-Park and Lowe the only 2 Residency qualified players.  Abdaladze moved from Georgia at age 5 and seems to be recovering from a long-term back injury.


Regardless of when he arrived that makes Abdaladze Residency qualified.
There is no distinction between those who arrive as Children and those who arrived as Adults

I would not get too excited about further inputs.
As mention elsewhere Nucifora wants to see as few NIQ as possible.
Also, and very importantly, the pandemic has cut revenue sharply.

All senior Ulster players have taken a pay cut.
Gilroy is on half what he was before.
Nakarawa is coming in at half the salary of Coetzee.
Faddes salary is a big saving.

Similar cuts will be necessary elsewhere.

Also the TV revenue is likely to drop.

To add to the squeeze on finances - these contracts were negotiated on the assumption of no crowds in 20/21 but full crowds in 21/22 - far from certain.
But Vakh is as Irish as Luke McGrath and Jordi Murphy. Its rediculous to put him on any sort of foreign player list

No he is not, he doesn't have Irish parents.

It is a simple statement of fact his qualification to play for Ireland is based on residency alone.
He does no qualify through his parents unlike McGrath and Murphy

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Post by Kingshu Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:02 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Shows how much I know

Munster would appear to be signing South African lock Jason Jenkins

How come Ulster were told no more NIQ for next year.

Ulster have 2 NIQ+Residency qualified for next - could be 3 if Roberts gets a contract
Leinster have 3 in total all Residency qualified
Munster have 7 in total lined up for next year.

It really does seem to me, at least in recent years, Munster are treated differently

The only way it makes sense to me, that the IRFU would allow Munster more NIQ players than anyone else and having 2 NIQ in the one position, it that they have instructed Munster to play Beirne at 6.

Irish management may have decided that Ryan and Henderson are first choice locks, but that Beirne is to good to leave out, he was very good at 6 for Ireland durning the 6 nations, and it would make sense that Irish management see it that his future for Ireland is at 6 and have told Munster thats where he has to play in future, so that he is fully used to that position.

If they have said that, it would mean that Munster plans for next season are short an experienced lock, and have requested premission to sign an experienced NIQ lock on a one year deal while the younger players gain experience and Beirne plays mostly in the backrow.

This is the only way I can understand why the IRFU would sanction this.

I also agree Geoff that I think Munster get special treatment, however I can understand the exception if the above is true, like us being allowed Matthewson this season. However if the above isnt the case then its mindboggleing.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:16 pm

Abdaladze is qualified to play for Ireland because he's been an Irish citizen since he was 12.
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Post by Kingshu Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:18 pm

Same as Geoff more news makes us look fools.

Appears the IRFU allowed Munster to sign Jenkins as Munster orginally had Du Tiot lined up for one year at €600,000 but the IRFU thought when making player cuts signing someone on that wage would be poor, so Munster were allowed to sign the cheaper Jenkins on the condition that he plays mostly backrow.

Still don't know whey they would sanction a NIQ backrow player. In the same situation I couldn't see the IRFU treating any other province like that.

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Post by Brendan Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:35 pm

Don't think it's good for Munster to be getting all the NIQs. It seems like Munster are just trying to find the magical player to turn them back to the good old days. Won't wait for the youth systems to produce and then back the young guys.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:28 pm

I sometimes wonder if Munster have some legacy link via Erasmus and now through Van Graan with all the SA players coming in.
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Post by Brendan Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:31 am

Pot Hale wrote:I sometimes wonder if Munster have some legacy link via Erasmus and now through Van Graan with all the SA players coming in.  

I think it is more a case of they are they easiest forgiener to pick up who suits their style. They dont want a ball playing player but more of a phyisical monster. Jean De Villers was also there back in the day.

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Post by Pot Hale Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:58 am

Kingshu wrote:Same as Geoff more news makes us look fools.

Appears the IRFU allowed Munster to sign Jenkins as Munster orginally had Du Tiot lined up for one year at €600,000 but the IRFU thought when making player cuts signing someone on that wage would be poor, so Munster were allowed to sign the cheaper Jenkins on the condition that he plays mostly backrow.

Still don't know whey they would sanction a NIQ backrow player. In the same situation I couldn't see the IRFU treating any other province like that.

Given the IRFU have agreed on the basis that he's used as a back row player, it makes sense. Du Toit is flanker also. Munster may know/guess that O'Donoghue and/or Coombes might get national call-ups along with O'Mahony and Beirne, in which case their lock/back row stocks would look fairly bare with O'Donnell, Holland and Stander out of the picture.

They'd have Cloete, O'Sullivan and academy Hodnett to call on.
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Post by mikey_dragon Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:58 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:He's capped, and wanted to add more. A good signing though. Is someone leaving? Kleyn seems to have been somewhat of a flop, but when available he shows his worth. I guess he could just be additional cover now that Beirne is firmly established as an Ireland starter.

Mikey - I meant to say this to you previously but I appreciate your contributions particularly as a knowledgeable Welsh fan.  You regularly bring fair and balanced comments to the Irish teams - you know your stuff.

Diolch.  

Haha not so sure about that Wink, but thanks anyway Pot. We were really keen for Beirne to switch allegiances, but he's a proud Irishman. I'm glad he has had a run of games and been injury free. I think he can cover blindside well, but don't see any reason to move him from lock. You don't lose anything with him there. Munster have POM at 6 already and he would likely move to 7. I think every team needs a good open-side / fetcher type player. Munster don't seem to have any apart from Cloete?

Snyman's injury is no doubt disappointing, as he's some player. Jason Howell Jenkins had to be WQ up until playing for SA, that's a shame... If Snyman departs at the end of his contract then Jenkins makes sense but I would probably be hoping for a 3 year contract at least. Jenkins was also a target for Jake White's Billionaire-backed Bulls team, so now I imagine that he will be nowhere near Springbok contention.

Jenkins is confirmed for a 1 year deal now I see, whilst Hanrahan departs? Not sure that's good business.

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Post by profitius Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:48 pm

Looks like Jenkins will be the last signing so the squad is almost complete. Not sure what the logic is of his signing especially with Ahern signed up.
9 academy players promoted and 2 in from outside. If expected Marshall, TOD and Cronin leave then it's a lot of experience leaving in the summer and a fairly young squad.


Diarmuid Barron 2022
Kevin O'Byrne 2022
Rhys Marshall 2021
Niall Scannell 2023

Scott Buckley Year 1



James Cronin2021
Dave Kilcoyne 2023
Liam O'Connor 2022
Jeremy Loughman 2022
Josh Wycherley 2023


Stephen Archer 2022
Keynan Knox 2022
John Ryan 2022
Roman Salanoa 2022
James French 2022


Tadhg Beirne 2022
Jean Kleyn 2022
RG Snyman 2022
Fineen Wycherley 2023
Thomas Ahern 2023

Paddy Kelly Year 2
Eoin O'Connor Year 2


Gavin Coombes 2023
Chris Cloete 2022
Jason Jenkins 2022
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2023
Peter O'Mahony 2023
Jack O'Sullivan 2023
John Hodnett 2023
Jack Daly 2022

Alex Kendellen Year 1
Cian Hurley Year 1


Craig Casey 2023
Neil Cronin 2023
Nick McCarthy 2021
Conor Murray 2022


Joey Carbery 2022
Jake Flannery 2022
Ben Healy 2022
Jack Crowley 2023


Damian de Allende 2022
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2022
Alex McHenry 2022
Rory Scannell 2023


Sean French 2022
Andrew Conway 2023
Liam Coombes 2022
Shane Daly 2023
Keith Earls 2022
Matt Gallagher 2022
Mike Haley 2023
Calvin Nash 2023

Jonathan Wren Year 3
Connor Philips Year 1



IN: Jenkins, Rumoured: Osbourne (Leinster)

OUT: Billy Holland ( retirement), CJ Stander (retirement), Sweetnam (La Rochelle), JJ Hanrahan (Clermont). Rumoured: J Cronin, Marshall, TOD, McCarthy, Eoghan Clarke (Jersey), Wren.


2021/22 NIEs:
RG Snyman (capped), Damian de Allende (capped), Jason Jenkins (capped).


Last edited by profitius on Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:58 pm

profitius wrote:Looks like Jenkins will be the last signing so the squad is almost complete. Not sure what the logic is of his signing especially with Ahern signed up.
9 academy players promoted and 2 in from outside. If expected Marshall and Cronin leave then it's a lot of experience leaving in the summer and a fairly young squad.

Seems to be that way over here in England. A lot of development players being fast tracked into the senior side. Certainly at my club Tigers there seems to be a younger cheaper outlook to replacements. Is it just Munster heading into next year with a younger squad or will it be all the Irish provinces?

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Post by profitius Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:02 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
profitius wrote:Looks like Jenkins will be the last signing so the squad is almost complete. Not sure what the logic is of his signing especially with Ahern signed up.
9 academy players promoted and 2 in from outside. If expected Marshall and Cronin leave then it's a lot of experience leaving in the summer and a fairly young squad.

Seems to be that way over here in England. A lot of development players being fast tracked into the senior side. Certainly at my club Tigers there seems to be a younger cheaper outlook to replacements. Is it just Munster heading into next year with a younger squad or will it be all the Irish provinces?


Ulsters is fairly young looking - I think - after McFarland cleared out many of the older players when he came.

Not sure about Connacht.

Leinster have announced no signings yet but it's rumoured Toner, Fardy, Cronin and Bent are all leaving. That would leave Sexton and Healy as the only old players.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:42 pm

I'm guessing I'll find out a bit about Connacht this weekend when we welcome them to Welford Road, just a shame it won't be the normal full house. We look likely to be fielding a couple of 19 year olds which is a bit unusual for us based on previous seasons.

Leinster seem to have a production line of talent so not a surprise they are allowing some experienced guys to go and replace them with cheaper internally produced talent.

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