2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Three

First topic message reminder :

Friday, 15th September

Northampton vs Bath 19:45 (BT Sport)
Worcester vs Exeter 19:45
Sale vs London Irish 20:00

Saturday, 16th September

Leicester vs Gloucester 15:00 (BT Sport)
Newcastle vs Saracens 17:00 (BT Sport) <-- This one's in Philadelphia

Sunday, 17th September

Wasps vs Harlequins 15:00 (BT Sport)

Pundits extrapolating from first round results ended up with egg on their faces, most notably the premature Northampton obituaries, and Gloucester revival claims. The third round will give us a bit more perspective on what trajectory teams are really on.

If Saints only managed to get themselves fired up for last week's match, then Bath will expose them. Still, it's Franklin Gardens, and Northampton will feel a win will get their season well underway. Worcester look vulnerable but caused Wasps more problems than expected. However, Exeter looked back in gear last week, and you'd think will have too much for the Warriors. Sale against London Irish looks tasty, as the Sharks have started poorly, and another home loss would start alarm bells ringing.

Leicester are one of three winless teams, so will be keen to show they aren't misfiring, while Gloucester will be smarting after reverting back to type last week. Saracens haven't lost to Newcastle since 2009, and will be favourites in the US. Still, the Falcons are no mugs this season but might have preferred a genuine home fixture. Wasps are top of the table, and take on Quins at home, which ought to make them favourites. Quins derailed Gloucester last week, though, so shouldn't be over-awed.

Very much agree, glos were hard done by in the first half

Did someone forget to tell the yanks there was a game on?

Embarrassing turn out.

Appalling turn out.

Far too easy try there for Saracens.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Appalling turn out.

As my wife was quick to quip, "looks like a standard game at Sarries".

You'd have thought they'd have at least given lots of free tickets to local schools and colleges. Get some youngsters in.

Exactly Sam...fill the stadium...its a "promotional game" after all..

Not worth the effort of flying two teams and support staff all that way, think of the Carbon footprint!

I still think we look so static and predictable.

Agree on the crowd. Reminds me of a pre season friendly turnout.

On the plus side I can't remember the last time I got to watch live rugby with a 3pm kick off

Ah man Chris Harris blew that one!

And I still don't understand why Matavesi starts over Sociuno!!!

Get in Goneva!!!!!!!

One of our best and key players Scrum half Takulua is having a mare!

Wow class breakdown work by Farrell!!

Well what a boring game even for fans of the two sides...so god knows what the neutrals must be thinking!!!

We cant be very high up the "team everyone wants to watch league" with the brand of rugby we are playing at the moment.

We need much more offensive power and drive. Too much defence, defence, defence waiting for the opposition to make the mistake and the counter attack. Yes this is sarries...but we have played that way against Worcester AND Sale also.

Didfficult to beat / play against...not remotely exciting to watch.

F&%k sake man how many unforced errors are we making!!!

If you watch the grass closely you can see it growing...its more interesting than this game!

Ah f&^k off Doyle!!!!

Penalty try and yellow card!!!! Biased tw@t!!!

Sorry Geordie, think I agree with Doyle for once on that one. Once he gave the try for a professional foul then Goneva had to go.

Agree on the grass growing comment, hardly going to grab the attention of the US public. First the Sale game and then this, hopefully Flood and DTH will improve the excitement levels for the neutral.

Goneva goes for interceptions all the time. He wasn't just swatting the ball away.

Never in a million years should it have been a try and yellow. And that's not me being biased as we were shockingly poor..Saracens weren't that good tonight...but didn't have to be.

Also...I don't know why he has dropped Socino.... I'm utterly bemused by that move. Socino was a hub of the attacking play we made last season (when did did actually play that is) yet he's been dropped for a big Fijian lump that's showed me absolutely no attacking skill or play whatsoever.

Bit of a dire game last night. I gave up midway through the second half and went to bed.

I'd be interested to know whether the powers that be consider the USA venture to be a success. Based on attendance figures of around 6,000 for last nights game I don't see how it can be. I do suspect that the match up between Falcons and Sarries was always destined to failure if I am honest. Neither are teams with huge support, despite Saracens on field success in recent years, and there is no USP for the game.

Without wanting to sound as if this is me bigging up my own club, at least when we went over we had the connection to Paddys Day in NYC which is a huge occasion out there. Whilst it clashed with the 6 Nations and some of Saracens big names were missing that day, the reality is that most US 'fans' won't have a huge player knowledge and the occasion probably overrides the names.

Premiership rugby really need to have a think about which fixture they take there next season, as I understand the contract is for another three more games.

Agreed Ozzy. If you are taking a game to the states you have to be able to create a buzz about it. Taking a token local isn't going to do it.

Really you need to make a day of it. Have a local college/uni side play an academy/A league side from one of the AP teams. Get tickets out to some local celebs. Could we get USA 7s vs Barbarians 7s on the bill as well. Get sme free tickets to local schools, get it televised. The Americans will be interested to see their Olympic team, the local college will bring number down to see their team. Free tickets for a day out will bring people in.

When you've built all that interest. Then send a game with some spice to it. Wasps vs Leicester maybe, Wasps give away tickets for free to bulk out their attendance so it won't matter so much to them if they lose a home game, though they would be losing out on the travelling support.

I imagine Falcons had little interest beyond the payday, it was never going to a major success for us.

I've heard it on the grapevine we made around 300k plus profit on what we would normally expect to achieve from the fixture. Not an amount to be passed on for a club of our size/budget.

The USA will be a slow burn for a long long time. Not until they achieve a successful Pro League will the game there have really progressed to the next level.

As for last nights venture? Well lets just say I hope they relearn and don't again forget the lessons learnt in 2015. First and foremost being not to compete with the NFL at any level Pro or College and so should restrict all future games to the spring.

Haskell getting his knickers in a twist.

Yeah Marler's got to him there. Yellow a bit harsh maybe but not a surprise for running up and grabbing him by the throat.

Marler did well not to react

Haskell, oh dear. Marler suckers him into the softest of yellow cards.

And that children is how not to finish. Lol

Always a shame when the wind up merchant goes unpunished whilst the person who reacts gets binned but it was stupid of Haskell to grab him by the throat. Not a good image for the sport so the refs are always going to give a yellow for that.

Marland Yarde is playing an absolute blinder so far.

mid_gen wrote:Yeah Marler's got to him there. Yellow a bit harsh maybe but not a surprise for running up and grabbing him by the throat.

Refs blown thw whistle and told the players to retreat back and not get involved. Haskell is where he shouldn't be and then allows himself to get provoked over nothing. As soon as he jumps in after the whistle he's rolling the dice with the referee and he can't complain about his yellow card.

Watson learning that you make sure of a try and don't go for the stupid showy finish.

Well an entertaining first half. As a quins fan, best performance I've seen from us in a while.

The spirit of Ben Botica lives on through Mike Brown.

Second time I've seen Mike Brown play this season and it's the second poor performance. He seems to have lost a little more pace which he has never had much of anyway but he's also now making errors in back play where he's always been rock solid previously.

Great showing from Quins, deserved win.

Happy quins fan here....been a while.

Our backline is looking very promising. Yarde, Smith, Roberts, Marchant, Walker.....actually starting to click with Smith pulling the strings. Forwards are actually getting a bit of edge to them after being a bit lightweight in recent seasons.

Really scary performance from Quins ahead of next week. I agree with Sam about Brown but I thought everyone else had a strong game. It looked to me like it was first time in years that their forwards have been as interested in having a scrap as they were in expansive rugby.

Couple that with their impressive home record and I struggle to see a repeat of last season's upset.

Pretty positive for Quins. Looks like Rowntree has really got into their forwards ahead of this weekend. Much more aggressive. Smith looks like he'll be a real ball player in the coming years and played well today, be interesting to see how he goes when the winter sets in.

Chuffing Quins, I was on for my first 6/6 on Superbru for well over a year!!

Some curious performances this weekend..a number of youngsters making big impressions ...ones to watch

Underhill was a ferocious tackling machine

David Ribbans is a huge young lock at saints who had an awesome game. 21 yo old South African but england qualified apparently

Stringer the sarries lh  came on and looked like another one coming through.

Simmonds the young exeter 8 had a stormer. Only 22 and only 6ft he may move to 6 or 7 but he showed some dazzling footwork this weekend.

Tom Collins the young saints winger is outstanding.

EDIT

Late edition i forgot all about young Marcus Smiths MOM v Wasps...

From what I've seen of Simmons he'll be a great 8 GF. Not the biggest but he is so explosive that he is ideal four launching off the back of a scrum. Great hands as well.

Eddie Jones must be smiling to himself thinking about all those young options who are making his job easy.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Some curious performances this weekend..a number of youngsters making big impressions ...ones to watch

Underhill was a ferocious tackling machine

David Ribbans is a huge young lock at saints who had an awesome game. 21 yo old South African but england qualified apparently

Stringer the sarries lh  came on and looked like another one coming through.

Simmonds the young exeter 8 had a stormer. Only 22 and only 6ft he may move to 6 or 7 but he showed some dazzling footwork this weekend.

Tom Collins the young saints winger is outstanding.  

No mention of Marcus Smith's MotM at 10 for quins? Settling in nicely after some understandably nervy early performances for the 18 year old. I just hope we get at least a full season from him before he's away on England duty half the year.

I thought Yarde deserved the MotM. Best game Ive seen from him in a long time.
Marcus Smith is doing very well considering age/experience/size - but is still making lots of errors (to be expected). I just want us to try and avoid the overhype as much as possible and give him the chance to really develop. However, he is improving with every game and I am sure we haven't seen the best of him yet.

Noticeable thibg is his defence needs to improve a lot. When you're getting run over by wade that much is obvious. 3rd pro game and 18 years old he looks like an excellent prospect but he won't be threatening ford or Farrell this season.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Noticeable thibg is his defence needs to improve a lot. When you're getting run over by wade that much is obvious. 3rd pro game and 18 years old he looks like an excellent prospect but he won't be threatening ford or Farrell this season.

To be fair, Wade's a handful to defend against whatever you do, unless you shut him down before he starts moving. From what I could see, Smith put in some good defensive efforts (I remember seeing one of the big lads - probably Hughes - get past him but he then turned and hauled him down from behind), but his positioning and technique still needs some work.

Perhaps Quins could get George Lowe to work with him one on one? Lowe broke into the first XV at 18, too, and was a superb defender from day 1, especially considering his size.

The best players learn and improve quickly. I remember Itoje being ok in the lineout nothing special now look at him. I have no doubt smith is going to improve and he's starting from a very good base level.

I heard Marcus Smith got MoTM yesterday (didn't see the game), is the hype train still selling tickets?

I thought the video of Haskell and Marler that is doing the rounds on FB was funny 'But sir he squirted water at me!'. How old are they?!?

Cumbrian wrote:I heard Marcus Smith got MoTM yesterday (didn't see the game), is the hype train still selling tickets?

I thought the video of Haskell and Marler that is doing the rounds on FB was funny 'But sir he squirted water at me!'. How old are they?!?

Smith was one of a few candidates for MOTM. Yarde, Walker, Clifford and Horwill were all contenders. I think most observers would have given it to Yarde, but if you take into account Smith's lack of experience and the enormity of the occasion (first senior away start, in one of the game's long established derbies, away from home at a stadium where Wasps hadn't lost for 2 years, against the then Premiership leaders and coming off the back of a year of poor Quins away form - and a win, in which he kicked 14 points at 83% and ran the backline well) then it's understandable.

Most Quins fans are trying to keep it all in perspective, but after a decade or more of disappointing backup options at flyhalf or ones who never quite rose to the challenge (Jarvis, Malone, Clegg, Botica, Jackson...), we're in a position where we have a theoretically very strong 1st choice (Catrakilis, when we eventually get to see him play), two backups who have done well in the role in the past (Swiel, Lang) and now a kid who's challenging all of them for the starting spot. It's hard not to get excited.

I would say that Smith is very similar to where George Ford was when he first emerged. Great vision and reading of the game, and an eye for space, but not quite reliable as a place kicker and with work to do defensively. Ford was and is a better kicker from hand, and has improved his defence. Smith I think is slightly better ball in hand - he has a break, and his distribution shows real potential. He still makes mistakes with his passes and kicks, and his defensive positioning in particular needs work - but he asks questions of defences and has brought the Quins backline to life in a way we haven't seen for several years.

The key thing will be to ensure he doesn't get overworked physically, and that we don't let early success go to his head. The first will rely on keeping our other flyhalves fit. The second will be down to Nick Evans, who is already doing a lot of one on one coaching with him.