6 Nations - IRELAND v ENGLAND 2nd Feb 2019

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6 Nations

IRELAND v ENGLAND

Saturday 02 February 2019 16:45 GMT

Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Maybe a little early but I for one can not wait for this fixture. 2nd vs 4th.

The 6 Nations is officially the BEST rugby competition........................In the World.

England starting XV (485 caps)

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 25 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps), 12 Manu Tuiagi (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps), 11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 65 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps); 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 32 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 17 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 26 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 27 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 8 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 36 caps).

Finishers (206 caps)

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps), 17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps), 19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 68 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 18 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps), 23 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 42 caps).

Really? Did you really think Bath would win in Lansdowne Road? I mean they only have about three or four really good players.

Not what I was getting at, but Bath have more quality players than that, unfortunately the coaches have destroyed their spirits.

TightHEAD wrote:Not what I was getting at, but Bath have more quality players than that, unfortunately the coaches have destroyed their spirits.

What were you hoping? That Bath would injure some key Ireland players?

Collapse2005 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Devin Toner?

Yep

Very impressive performances from Henderson and Ryan at the weekend as well, both incorrectly pipped as MOTM in my opinion.

Stockdale and Larmour looking very sharp as well.

Not sure it will help us stop the irrepressible Sam Underhill from making us look like a bunch of under-13 school boys at the breakdown but you've got to cling to the positives.

Yeah Underhill is great but Id fancy Ireland's backrow to keep him reasonably quiet and manage him impact as they did v Pocock in the Australia series to some degree of success.

It's going to be a great showdown if we can b9th get our first choice packs out.

I simply think Ireland are the more mature team. On paper the line ups will be of similar quality with both teams full of quality players and perhaps on Furlong and Sexton as standouts above the rest. The Sexton Farrell face off will be a deciding factor but ultimately I think Ireland have a greater cohesion and this being Game 1 for both sides, will edge a close home fixture.

England by 9.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's going to be a great showdown if we can b9th get our first choice packs out.

If England require more open-side cover they should consider Olly Robinson. He’s currently playing in Cardiff but rumoured to be off to Exeter...

Looks decent. As you say o my going to get a chance if he agrees a move before the world cup. I'd fancy he still has a few guys to get past too.

I've been very impressed with Ollie Robinson. Seemed to be involved in most of the Cardiff plays - if he can be tempted back to an English club then I would be very happy to see him in contention for the England squad.
Is he a 6 or 7?

7.

I liked the look of Robinson when he was at Bristol and felt he was more than just the coaches son. However he never felt like an international prospect more a good premiership player. He looked good away to Barnet but then got himself binned, and was left on the bench for the return fixture. A decent player but certainly not as good as Kvesic (imo) who is younger.

Taylorman wrote:England by 9.

That's just what you want to happen rather than what you think will happen, correct? Do you feel threatened that Ireland will overtake NZ in the rankings?

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:England by 9.

That's just what you want to happen rather than what you think will happen, correct? Do you feel threatened that Ireland will overtake NZ in the rankings?

Forget the rankings, everyone knows that NZ have slipped and Ireland are the best side in the world

That is everyone who knows anything about rugby

Pie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:England by 9.

That's just what you want to happen rather than what you think will happen, correct? Do you feel threatened that Ireland will overtake NZ in the rankings?

Forget the rankings, everyone knows that NZ have slipped and Ireland are the best side in the world

That is everyone who knows anything about rugby

Maybe as of this moment.

I think that Ireland on merit deserve to be called the best side in 2018 but by the tiniest margin, one match, the head to head game in Lansdowne which Ireland won. If the game was in NZ it may well have been a different result.

I think if you remove that match Ireland also had a marginally better year in that their one loss was away to the 3rd ranked side at the time whereas NZ lost at home to the side ranked 7th.

There is enough there to say that they are the best right now. However, the rankings demand that you are the best over a longer period that one year so lets see how next year goes.

Ode to Joe - in A Major

Edit: A Musical Ode to Joe (to be sung vaguely in the style of The Green Fields of France)

Now what do we know
on the Irish injury front
The word is they’ll be missin’
some big forward grunt

Sean and Iain are banjaxed
and will surely be missed
But never fear cos we know that
Tadgh, James and Devin
Are still on the list

Ah but Robbie and Chris
Sure they wont be playin’  
Fair call but Aki and Gary
can still do what Big Faz is sayin’
   
With the big two at Lansdowne
it could be a real sign
That Saint Joe really does know how
to turn water into wine

Ah but Scotland and Wales lie in wait
with their jinks and ability
and O’Shea dreams on fitfully
about the possibilities of Italy.

Ah dont worry about them
They’ll still curse us as Paddies
But the main thing we’ve to do first
is beat those fine English laddies.

So never mind the begrudgers, the moaners
and the fence-sitters too
By Paddy’s Day we’ll be painting
Towns red, green, white - and blue.

Pie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:England by 9.

That's just what you want to happen rather than what you think will happen, correct? Do you feel threatened that Ireland will overtake NZ in the rankings?

Forget the rankings, everyone knows that NZ have slipped and Ireland are the best side in the world

That is everyone who knows anything about rugby

Reasons I think theyll win?

England were without very key players- (particularly the aptly Wellington born Vunipola brothers- but we wont go there) in the AI's and were a whisker from beating both NZ and SA within a week and Im assuming they'll get some or all of those back. (As were Ireland but thats not my point).

The other reason is the home union sides tend to pull the others back into line during the 6N following beating a NZ side. (Its 'uncanny' enough to support a conclusion)-  England got annihilated by Wales weeks after beating NZ comfortably in 2012, Ireland got beaten by both Wales and Scotland next 6N after beating the ABs in Chicago so I think theres a certain misplaced confidence about sides who manage it.

So while Ireland might think theyre on a high, and they probably are, Jones and his refreshed and from what Ive seen very talented side will know the Dublin match is the key to winning the 6N, with Ireland likely to cough up either in Wales or Murrayfield, or both again.

Other than that, I couldnt care less who wins, Im just looking at the trends of the past, and whats in front, relative to both sides having recently played NZ, and in the past.

Pot Hale wrote:Ode to Joe - in A Major

I liked it, Pot.

But then, I'm kulchured me. The rest of these Fillysteines haven't got a clue about the finer things in life like Opera, poetry and Reality TV.

Taylorman wrote:

Pie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:England by 9.

That's just what you want to happen rather than what you think will happen, correct? Do you feel threatened that Ireland will overtake NZ in the rankings?

Forget the rankings, everyone knows that NZ have slipped and Ireland are the best side in the world

That is everyone who knows anything about rugby

Geez you guys are easy. Reasons I think theyll win?

England were without very key players- (particularly the aptly Wellington born Vunipola brothers- but we wont go there) in the AI's and were a whisker from beating both NZ and SA within a week and Im assuming they'll get some or all of those back. (As were Ireland but thats not my point).

The other reason is the home union sides tend to pull the others back into line during the 6N following beating a NZ side. (Its 'uncanny' enough to support a conclusion)-  England got annihilated by Wales weeks after beating NZ comfortably in 2012, Ireland got beaten by both Wales and Scotland next 6N after beating the ABs in Chicago so I think theres a certain misplaced confidence about sides who manage it.

So while Ireland might think theyre on a high, and they probably are, Jones and his refreshed and from what Ive seen very talented side will know the Dublin match is the key to winning the 6N, with Ireland likely to cough up either in Wales or Murrayfield, or both again.

Other than that, I couldnt care less who wins, Im just looking at the trends of the past, and whats in front, relative to both sides having recently played NZ, and in the past.

Bit of a long bow, Tman to make your post-NZ hypothesis based on two highly infrequent occurrences and not take any other factors into account in those years. And you say that you don’t watch the Championship anyway. But hey, it’s your call. You might get this one right - for once.

This is why I am not completely upset that England did not beat the AB's. We were not ready to, and doing so would have given the false impression that we had some how 'made it' and would not have to keep on developing

lostinwales wrote:This is why I am not completely upset that England did not beat the AB's. We were not ready to, and doing so would have given the false impression that we had some how 'made it' and would not have to keep on developing

Yes good point, kinda what I meant. Teams that still have a point to prove tend to rally better than those that think they dont. Reason I know that is because the ABs often struggle for motivation to remain 'in the hunt' test after test, especially when they havent lost for ages. England are in perfect position to make a steal on this years 6N, being slightly under the radar than is Ireland, who's expectation from most quarters is, whether they want the tag or not, to win.

Pot Hale wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Pie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:England by 9.

That's just what you want to happen rather than what you think will happen, correct? Do you feel threatened that Ireland will overtake NZ in the rankings?

Forget the rankings, everyone knows that NZ have slipped and Ireland are the best side in the world

That is everyone who knows anything about rugby

Geez you guys are easy. Reasons I think theyll win?

England were without very key players- (particularly the aptly Wellington born Vunipola brothers- but we wont go there) in the AI's and were a whisker from beating both NZ and SA within a week and Im assuming they'll get some or all of those back. (As were Ireland but thats not my point).

The other reason is the home union sides tend to pull the others back into line during the 6N following beating a NZ side. (Its 'uncanny' enough to support a conclusion)-  England got annihilated by Wales weeks after beating NZ comfortably in 2012, Ireland got beaten by both Wales and Scotland next 6N after beating the ABs in Chicago so I think theres a certain misplaced confidence about sides who manage it.

So while Ireland might think theyre on a high, and they probably are, Jones and his refreshed and from what Ive seen very talented side will know the Dublin match is the key to winning the 6N, with Ireland likely to cough up either in Wales or Murrayfield, or both again.

Other than that, I couldnt care less who wins, Im just looking at the trends of the past, and whats in front, relative to both sides having recently played NZ, and in the past.

Bit of a long bow, Tman to make your post-NZ hypothesis based on two highly infrequent occurrences and not take any other factors into account in those years.   And you say that you don’t watch the Championship anyway.   But hey, it’s your call.   You might get this one right - for once.  

Picked the England slam in 16 when I couldnt find anyone else that did so lets make that twice perhaps...maybe...

As for the NZ based thinking thats because its about relativity. When both England and Ireland play our side you get to see their best available, and England were every bit as impressive as Ireland. More so for me in terms of the availability.

Afterwards and B**stards doesn’t really scan properly, but good to see how Pot views the English. Nice.

The whole piece could do with some work on the meter. That’s what really offends.

Cyril wrote:Afterwards and B**stards doesn’t really scan properly, but good to see how Pot views the English. Nice.

The whole piece could do with some work on the meter. That’s what really offends.

Oh don't be so hard on Pot, Cyril.  He up and tricked himself is all. If only he hadn't of used 'afterwards' then he wouldn't have needed the other bit.  

A poem has got to rhyme................................ - well; the unpretentious ones do anyway.

Taylorman wrote:

Picked the England slam in 16 when I couldnt find anyone else that did so lets make that twice perhaps...maybe...

I think Jones agreed with you that year, did he?  Sorry but you gotta share the prize with him.  He'll of course hog it, but he'll let you look at it through a window now and then

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2016/mar/13/six-nations-grand-slam-is-on-for-england-says-coach-eddie-jones-video

Fly, poems don’t have to rhyme. Free-form etc is great too. ‘Not quite’ rhyming is ‘orrible

SecretFly wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Picked the England slam in 16 when I couldnt find anyone else that did so lets make that twice perhaps...maybe...

I think Jones agreed with you that year, did he?  Sorry but you gotta share the prize with him.  He'll of course hog it, but he'll let you look at it through a window now and then

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2016/mar/13/six-nations-grand-slam-is-on-for-england-says-coach-eddie-jones-video

Yep, Me..ee...ee..eee and Mr Jones, we had a good thing....going on...

I know poems don't have to rhyme...I said as much in my post.

To prove it, here's one I wrote earlier:

Verily, but yay it is oft not known,
And yonder, a moon lights goodness but spiked,
With juice of honey and taint of beast,
For calamity is pungent,
But settles crisply on Frigid Ground.


That's me best pretentious one.  It'll take a good critic three decades to work that one out!

Taylorman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Picked the England slam in 16 when I couldnt find anyone else that did so lets make that twice perhaps...maybe...

I think Jones agreed with you that year, did he?  Sorry but you gotta share the prize with him.  He'll of course hog it, but he'll let you look at it through a window now and then

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2016/mar/13/six-nations-grand-slam-is-on-for-england-says-coach-eddie-jones-video

Yep, Me..ee...ee..eee and Mr Jones, we had a good thing....going on...

Touché, Musketeer! I like it.

Cyril wrote:Afterwards and B**stards doesn’t really scan properly, but good to see how Pot views the English. Nice.

The whole piece could do with some work on the meter. That’s what really offends.

Ah here, both of them end in ‘s’ - that was good enough for me, Cy.

I was going for an iambic pentameter rhythm but me feet kinda lost their way - mucho apols to your acute poetic sensibilities.  If you’d like to review if for the use/abuse of ictic and nonictic syllables, I’d really appreciate it.  (There may be a couple of feminine endings in there as well -   )

As for de English I loves them really - sure didn’t they invent Marmite and Zebedee from the Magic Roundabout - for that alone they deserve to win the Six Nations (or the wooden spoon depending on one’s view of Marmite.)  I even studied English as a subject once - you can’t ask for more loyalty than that, well except for an English subject obviously.  

Love and kisses.  X

PS - I solved the problem - I realized it was actually a song sitting chrysalis-like inside a poem.  If you sing the words to the tune of the Green Fields of France, it’ll sound much better.

SecretFly wrote:I know poems don't have to rhyme...I said as much in my post.

To prove it, here's one I wrote earlier:

Verily, but yay it is oft not known,
And yonder, a moon lights goodness but spiked,
With juice of honey and taint of beast,
For calamity is pungent,
But settles crisply on Frigid Ground.


That's me best pretentious one.  It'll take a good critic three decades to work that one out!

Is it about blackberry jam?

I like blackberry jam - used to make it with my father when I was a kid. Although we did burst the jars in the oven once, with an interesting explosion...

Pot, please keep your xenophobia to yourself, via sport, poetry or otherwise. There’s enough animosity on here without you coming out with the tired, ‘English b**stards’ shoite. Get yourself on a nationalist website if you want to spout that rubbish or get lost.

SecretFly wrote:I know poems don't have to rhyme...I said as much in my post.

To prove it, here's one I wrote earlier:

Verily, but yay it is oft not known,
And yonder, a moon lights goodness but spiked,
With juice of honey and taint of beast,
For calamity is pungent,
But settles crisply on Frigid Ground.


That's me best pretentious one.  It'll take a good critic three decades to work that one out!

See
Youre a poet, and you just dont realise that that is the case.
No wait... I mean...

Cyril wrote:Pot, please keep your xenophobia to yourself, via sport, poetry or otherwise. There’s enough animosity on here without you coming out with the tired, ‘English b**stards’ shoite. Get yourself on a nationalist website if you want to spout that rubbish or get lost.

Xenophobia??   Cyril - get a life.  If you’re now moderating banter on a thread about the upcoming Ireland v England game then you need to acquire a sense of humour.

If you are genuinely offended by the ditty, then I shall delete it immediately.  Just let me know.

PS I’ve amended the line to suit your sensibilities.

propdavid_london wrote:I've been very impressed with Ollie Robinson.  Seemed to be involved in most of the Cardiff plays - if he can be tempted back to an English club then I would be very happy to see him in contention for the England squad.
Is he a 6 or 7?

He’s played both as Cardiff occasionally play with two or three 7’s in their back row. If he’s picking up tips off guys like Jenkins and Navidi then he’ll only get better. Apart from Underhill I don’t really know of a good open-side in England.

Pot, please delete that bit. Thanks. I’m not moderating at all but is there any need for that? I don’t like the word ‘banter’ (seems an excuse to just be offensive). Up to you though.

Cyril wrote:Pot, please delete that bit. Thanks.

Already edited the two lines.

Much better. However, if you still consider us ‘English b**strds’ you should just run with that. Sorry to call you on that. It’s not just ‘sporting banter’. Sorry, but it’s recorded on here and not particularly amusing.

Cyril wrote:Much better. However, if you still consider us ‘English b**strds’ you should just run with that. Sorry to call you on that. It’s not just ‘sporting banter’. Sorry, but it’s recorded on here and not particularly amusing.

Jeez Cyril - okay for the record, no I do not genuinely believe the English are illegitimate childen aka Pal Joeys - some of my family and longtime friends are English and I don’t think any of them are b**stards either.  

In fact of all the visiting fans to Dublin, I prefer the English ones - cos at least they buy their round and don’t moan/gloat - too much - about the result afterwards - and generally greet each other with “Congrats. You b**stards won - again” and then we have a pint and laugh about it.   But maybe that’s just me and my experience over the last 30 odd years or so.

Cyril wrote:Much better. However, if you still consider us ‘English b**strds’ you should just run with that. Sorry to call you on that. It’s not just ‘sporting banter’. Sorry, but it’s recorded on here and not particularly amusing.

Look Cyril.  Here's how things go.  Here's how I do it.  Someone throws an odd Irishism at me (you know - the drunk, oafish, rustic idiot kinda stabs and taunts) and what do I do?...I usually try to own the insults - play up to them to show that bullschidt don't kill me, physically or emotionally.  Someone calls me a 'basterde' in public... I usually say "Yeah, I'm a basterde"  There goes the guy's weapon instantly.  And you see it in his eyes.... instantly.

Nice trick.  So..hope you know that I've always kinda liked you as a poster.  You can be playful with the words and I like people who don't seem to take the 'business' of rugby too seriously...so forgive but here's a line you used earlier sometime:

" It was fairly quiet until the usual drunken and obnoxious Irish oiks came in to fill up on cheap lager before getting arrested. It’s ruining the neighbourhood."

Still like you as a poster.  No problem with that.  You feel what you feel at times and who the hell am I to decide you should think differently?

But just remember to remember.

SecretFly wrote:

Cyril wrote:Much better. However, if you still consider us ‘English b**strds’ you should just run with that. Sorry to call you on that. It’s not just ‘sporting banter’. Sorry, but it’s recorded on here and not particularly amusing.

Look Cyril.  Here's how things go.  Here's how I do it.  Someone throws an odd Irishism at me (you know - the drunk, oafish, rustic idiot kinda stabs and taunts) and what do I do?...I usually try to own the insults - play up to them to show that bullschidt don't kill me, physically or emotionally.  Someone calls me a 'basterde' in public... I usually say "Yeah, I'm a basterde"  There goes the guy's weapon instantly.  And you see it in his eyes.... instantly.

Nice trick.  So..hope you know that I've always kinda liked you as a poster.  You can be playful with the words and I like people who don't seem to take the 'business' of rugby too seriously...so forgive but here's a line you used earlier sometime:

" It was fairly quiet until the usual drunken and obnoxious Irish oiks came in to fill up on cheap lager before getting arrested. It’s ruining the neighbourhood."

Still like you as a poster.  No problem with that.  You feel what you feel at times and who the hell am I to decide you should think differently?

But just remember to remember.

Huh! I love the smell of burning hypocrisy early in the morning.

I think it was clear I was referring to a particular group that would cause trouble regularly. Not tarring a whole nation with the same brush (as Pot Hale has been doing).

Cyril wrote:I think it was clear I was referring to a particular group that would cause trouble regularly. Not tarring a whole nation with the same brush (as Pot Hale has been doing).

That’s not true or accurate. I was referring to the England rugby team and it was intended to be humorous within the poem/ditty. It was a once-off reference that I amended on foot of your being offended.

Anyway.... Merry Christmas to all.

I'll be celebrating with extra loud renditions of two favourite Christmas classics:

Baby it's Cold Outside.

and

Fairy-tale of New York.

I hope the nightclub/Christmas parties sing both loud and proud. Raise the rafters. Time to reclaim the world from the grasp of utter eejits.

SecretFly wrote:Anyway.... Merry Christmas to all.  

I'll be celebrating with extra loud renditions of two favourite Christmas classics:

Baby it's Cold Outside.

and

Fairy-tale of New York.  

I hope the nightclub/Christmas parties sing both loud and proud.  Raise the rafters.  Time to reclaim the world from the grasp of utter eejits.

I'm offended.

And, I do not consent to your hug emoticon!

My lawyers are on it, Goon. I hope the out of court settlement they offer you will be good enough.

The irony of Cyril getting offended at jabs aimed at the English given the amount he seems to be obsessed with Ireland. A couple of days ago Cyril suggested Ireland was devoid of culture which is why Schmidt may want to return to France.

Taylorman wrote:

Pie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:England by 9.

That's just what you want to happen rather than what you think will happen, correct? Do you feel threatened that Ireland will overtake NZ in the rankings?

Forget the rankings, everyone knows that NZ have slipped and Ireland are the best side in the world

That is everyone who knows anything about rugby

Reasons I think theyll win?

England were without very key players- (particularly the aptly Wellington born Vunipola brothers- but we wont go there) in the AI's and were a whisker from beating both NZ and SA within a week and Im assuming they'll get some or all of those back. (As were Ireland but thats not my point).

The other reason is the home union sides tend to pull the others back into line during the 6N following beating a NZ side. (Its 'uncanny' enough to support a conclusion)-  England got annihilated by Wales weeks after beating NZ comfortably in 2012, Ireland got beaten by both Wales and Scotland next 6N after beating the ABs in Chicago so I think theres a certain misplaced confidence about sides who manage it.

So while Ireland might think theyre on a high, and they probably are, Jones and his refreshed and from what Ive seen very talented side will know the Dublin match is the key to winning the 6N, with Ireland likely to cough up either in Wales or Murrayfield, or both again.

Other than that, I couldnt care less who wins, Im just looking at the trends of the past, and whats in front, relative to both sides having recently played NZ, and in the past.

Interesting. You claimed that Ireland would lose v NZ because we were missing Murray and SOB. Does Ireland missing key players not count now?

Ireland lost to Wales and Scotland away in close games, not the end of the world. In the same season NZ almost lost to Scotland too in Murrayfield. Ireland have England at home next year. Its been a long time since anyone has won in Dublin in the six nations. Not impossible though but November wont have a whole lot to do with it.

I think there if Ireland lose to anyone it will be England or Wales but I cant see them losing both.