6 Nations - IRELAND v ENGLAND 2nd Feb 2019

First topic message reminder :

6 Nations

IRELAND v ENGLAND

Saturday 02 February 2019 16:45 GMT

Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Maybe a little early but I for one can not wait for this fixture. 2nd vs 4th.

The 6 Nations is officially the BEST rugby competition........................In the World.

England starting XV (485 caps)

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 25 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps), 12 Manu Tuiagi (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps), 11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 65 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps); 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 32 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 17 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 26 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 27 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 8 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 36 caps).

Finishers (206 caps)

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps), 17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps), 19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 68 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 18 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps), 23 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 42 caps).

BamBam wrote:I've never understood why the teams have to be named in advance in rugby, why is it not like football and named an hour before kickoff

Matchday programmes?

What would happen if a team put out a false teamsheet? Obviously you're allowed to change for injury, but could you make changes after the Thursday?

rodders wrote:Thanks Aukster, yes I did wonder if this would have been tried earlier but for Robbie's injuries.

Good point on the defensive fullback suggestion, does it say something about how Ireland are approaching this game tactically?

Henshaw is strong under the high ball, and a good defender but I don't think he's particularly creative or a counterattacking threat...although its been sometime since he played 15.

His breakthrough season in Connacht he played majority of games at 15, and he was an incredible threat with his running lines. Can only see that vision and awareness will have got better from playing at 12

He played 15 for Leinster last year too on occasion.

robbo277 wrote:

BamBam wrote:I've never understood why the teams have to be named in advance in rugby, why is it not like football and named an hour before kickoff

Matchday programmes?

What would happen if a team put out a false teamsheet? Obviously you're allowed to change for injury, but could you make changes after the Thursday?

Of course you could. You (coach) could feign injury to the player you want to replace by hitting him on the knee with a hammer.

So we 'experiment' with Henshaw at 15 - and Jones 'experiments' with Nowell as flanker?

Which is the riskier? Don't bother responding, it's a rhetorical one.

SecretFly wrote:So we 'experiment' with Henshaw at 15 - and Jones 'experiments' with Nowell as flanker?

Which is the riskier?  Don't bother responding, it's a rhetorical one.

Which of the two questions is rhetorical?

Collapse2005 wrote:I suspect it is a done deal that Henshaw will start 15 and VdF 7. I like the look of VdF starting and SOB off the bench. Formidable.

SOB off the bench is a good option, minus Henderson or Beirne the bench impact is a bit less significant.

I'm still to be convinced about Henshaw at 15 but hope he has a big game.

Sexton or Carbury to start?

Well Nowell and Henshaw are question nobody here can really answer so they are still legitimate questions that only the coaches will be able to answer.
The 'which is riskier?' one is the rhetorical one so.

rodders wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:I suspect it is a done deal that Henshaw will start 15 and VdF 7. I like the look of VdF starting and SOB off the bench. Formidable.

SOB off the bench is a good option, minus Henderson or Beirne the bench impact is a bit less significant.

I'm still to be convinced about Henshaw at 15 but hope he has a big game.

Sexton or Carbury to start?  

Yes sir! Whatever you say, sir. Your opinion is the only one that counts here from now on. We obey

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:I suspect it is a done deal that Henshaw will start 15 and VdF 7. I like the look of VdF starting and SOB off the bench. Formidable.

SOB off the bench is a good option, minus Henderson or Beirne the bench impact is a bit less significant.

I'm still to be convinced about Henshaw at 15 but hope he has a big game.

Sexton or Carbury to start?  

Yes sir!  Whatever you say, sir.  Your opinion is the only one that counts here from now on. We obey

OK you can stay.

Congrats on the promotion, rodders

Too important a game...from the off. Sexton (if able) to start.

I have a feeling this will be a serious train England are going to throw at us in the first half. It's risky to have a player that might still have nerves that get to him if the onslaught is unrelenting.

Cant see Sexton not starting this one.

LondonTiger wrote:

alcoombe wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Referencing a couple of posts from above:

With the amount he has played in the second row, never sure why Wilson is not considered a lineout option.

Cannot remember seeing Slade play 12 for Chiefs. I remember them looking to phase him into the 10 shirt, but he never performed better there than Steenson. Just cannot recall him at 12.

It's where he played the majority of the season they won the premiership, 2016-2017.

As Devoto made 17 starts and Sam Hill 7 during the regular season (Slade 14) I would be surprised if he spent most of that season at 12.

Though looking through those starts it appears he played half teh games at 10 and half at 12 with Devoto at 13. Could have sworn they had been the other way round. Still 7 games at 12 is not huge (though more than Manu)

8 starts at 12, 6 at 10, with 3 of those moving to 12 when Steenson came on. They shifted Devoto from 13 to 12 whilst Slade was absent on England duty, a position he has largely remained in because he's a better 12 than 13, and Slade a better 13 than Devoto or anyone else Exeter had, Campagnaro struggling to fit in, generally absent with long-term injuries or on Italy duty.

My memories of Slade's performances at 12 that year were that that was where he looked best suited, but his versatility, Exeter's needs, and England's, being so often without Joseph and Tuilagi since then, have kept him at 13.

robbo277 wrote:

BamBam wrote:I've never understood why the teams have to be named in advance in rugby, why is it not like football and named an hour before kickoff

Matchday programmes?

What would happen if a team put out a false teamsheet? Obviously you're allowed to change for injury, but could you make changes after the Thursday?

Happens in GAA all the time. The team named always has a few changes and positional switches come throw in. There are always a few lads with substitute numbers starting. All mind games.

the-goon wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

BamBam wrote:I've never understood why the teams have to be named in advance in rugby, why is it not like football and named an hour before kickoff

Matchday programmes?

What would happen if a team put out a false teamsheet? Obviously you're allowed to change for injury, but could you make changes after the Thursday?

Happens in GAA all the time. The team named always has a few changes and positional switches come throw in. There are always a few lads with substitute numbers starting. All mind games.

Im sure Cockers got accused of this when he coaches Tigers. Seemed to be a run of games where players would pull out an hour or less pre game!

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:I suspect it is a done deal that Henshaw will start 15 and VdF 7. I like the look of VdF starting and SOB off the bench. Formidable.

SOB off the bench is a good option, minus Henderson or Beirne the bench impact is a bit less significant.

I'm still to be convinced about Henshaw at 15 but hope he has a big game.

Sexton or Carbury to start?  

Yes sir!  Whatever you say, sir.  Your opinion is the only one that counts here from now on. We obey

OK you can stay.

The lunatics have really taken over the asylum

If Henshaw really is at full back I’ll be very, very happy as an England fan.

Cyril wrote:If Henshaw really is at full back I’ll be very, very happy as an England fan.

why? Because you like losing

Why Cyril?

Maybe he's quite a good 15? After all, Kearney is getting very horsey around the teeth and gums.

I'd wait at least until half time before deciding on happiness factors.

Meanwhile, I see that Ben Youngs was on Jones duty today?

Nice little rattles in his comments: "When I say the fight I am talking about the breakdown, the aerial stuff, the bits of the game that are no talent required, niggly stuff. They are just mad for those little fights."

It's always no talent stuff that we're good at. Which brings me to the kweskin: What is a specific talent in rugby?

Telegraph thinks Ashton and Kruis will be left out. Here's their probable:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2019/01/30/england-recall-jack-nowell-six-nations-opener-aim-take-fight/

England (probable):

15: Elliot Daly
14: Jonny May
13: Henry Slade
12: Manu Tuilagi
11: Jack Nowell
10: Owen Farrell
9: Ben Youngs

1: Mako Vunipola
2: Jamie George
3: Kyle Sinckler
4: Maro Itoje
5: Courtney Lawes
6: Mark Wilson
7: Tom Curry
8: Billy Vunipola

A lot of pundits expect Brown to start. I'd feel safer with him there toovbut I don't mind if Jones going with Daly. It's a big game, away from home, so if he isn't up to the job at full-back, then we may as well find out now, rather than at the World Cup. Tuilagi's the same. There aren't many matches before the World Cup, and Leicester are out of Europe, so Jones probably needs to see what he can do in an England setting now, rather than waiting him to get more up to speed with his club.

I am a little worried about Daly as he's going to get peppered and he hasn't been up to the task as yet. I know a lot of the talk had been about bringing Brown back in and I can see why but I was half expecting Jones to go left field and select Ashton back there. Not long left now to find out.

If that is the England team I'm a bit more confident of an Irish win.
I think the packs will be a cracking battle. Very even but Ireland should just edge it being at home and more settled as a unit.
In the backs Manu is wasted at 12, and can see the short explosive movement needed at 12 will test his hamstrings to the max. So can see him and Slade swapping around a bit.
Daly at 15 will be peppered with high balls and have henshaw and Stockdale all over him so will need to be on his metal.

But if England get some good quick ball that backline could be very dangerous

It comes down to the pack I think. Both sets of backs can be dangerous. As you rightly say there could be new combos in midfield and known weakness at 15. If it is Daly he could have a torrid time.
If England's pack turns up like last year making stupid decisions and looks lethargic we can expect a loss. I think they'll be fired up and I'm.looking forward to curry ruling the roost though!

That's a stupid comment from.youngs above. Ive seen someof those quotes about playing smarter but to suggest it doesn't take skill to claim balls in the air or play well on rucks etc is absurd.

To be fair I doubt even Lendrid knew what he meant. 

https://www.matthampsonfoundation.org/news/2015/06/stuff-ben-said-now-sale/

No 7&1/2 wrote:That's a stupid comment from.youngs above. Ive seen someof those quotes about playing smarter but to suggest it doesn't take skill to claim balls in the air or play well on rucks etc is absurd.

There stupid quotes for the stupid tabloid press. Don't think anyone in the Irish camp will pay any notice to them.
Saying stuff like that will just be thrown back at him when England have lost by 14+ points

So he'll never get his comeuppance. Life's not fair.

Cyril wrote:If Henshaw really is at full back I’ll be very, very happy as an England fan.

You know Cyril old bean, I'm not getting this one at all - throughout Schmidt's reign he's shown constantly that he's been willing to throw Kearney into the breach irrespective of his club form- I don't believe he's suddenly lost faith by one poor defensive showing at the weekend.

Beyond that for the past year and half he's been fast tracking Larmour as a fullback and bench option - that he'd pass an opportunity to get him more experience doesn't make sense unless he's seen something in Larmour recently that has made him doubt his readiness for the RWC.

Schmidt also has always been a real stickler for guys playing in the position he wants for their provinces - e.g. Jared Payne and Luke Marshall playing 13 for Ulster, Zebo getting games at 15 for Munster, Carbury moving to Munster to play 10, Henshaw himself to 12.

This seems a sudden departure from his previous selection approach.

Is this a sign that Farrell is having more say in selection, or that in his final season he's rolling the dice a bit more?

It could be as simple as getting your best players on the pitch.

the-goon wrote:It could be as simple as getting your best players on the pitch.

Absolutely but that has never been how Schmidt has gone about things previously.

rodders wrote:

Beyond that for the past year and half he's been fast tracking Larmour as a fullback and bench option -  that he'd pass an opportunity to get him more experience doesn't make sense unless he's seen something in Larmour recently that has made him doubt his readiness for the RWC.

I think what we've seen is Larmour's (present) limitations in certain games types. When the battle is against less resilient sides who might use a lighter weight running brand of rugby then Larmour can come into his own on counterstrikes from anywhere in the field. Against strong top grade physical sides that aren't planning on giving you too many gaps to exploit, then his value goes down. But world rugby is a mixed bag... they do come in all shades even at a world cup. If Henshaw is being tried against England of all teams then maybe it's just a realisation that if Kearney is injured in a tough physical encounter at WC... Henshaw could slip back rather than small and defensively iffy Larmour.

rodders wrote:  Beyond that for the past year and half he's been fast tracking Larmour as a fullback and bench option -  that he'd pass an opportunity to get him more experience doesn't make sense unless he's seen something in Larmour recently that has made him doubt his readiness for the RWC.

Personally I saw things in November that made me question whether or not Larmour is quite ready for International 15 - I'm guessing Schmidt saw them to.
Addison would make a better 15, Id pick Conway above Larmour as well
As for Henshaw he has never had the luxury of both Aki and Ringrose being both fit and ready for Internationals as well as Henshaw.

Its crazy to think that Robson has yet to win an international cap but yet he will do so in this game.

Talk about missed opportunities in the Summer and Autumn.

TightHEAD wrote:Its crazy to think that Robson has yet to win an international cap but yet he will do so in this game.

Talk about missed opportunities in the Summer and Autumn.  

 agree about in the Summer, but he was injured in the autumn.

LondonTiger wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Its crazy to think that Robson has yet to win an international cap but yet he will do so in this game.

Talk about missed opportunities in the Summer and Autumn.  

 agree about in the Summer, but he was injured in the autumn.

I always played through injuries.

Okay.  I don't think this can be considered a 'business as usual' game for Ireland.  We have to understand in advance that the world has changed since the November series.  We have to pre-empt the inevitable.  From the first game out, Ireland's areas of confidence are going to be questioned and seriously threatened this year.  That's my gut feeling.  The law of averages. It just has to happen.  

The other sides now have had ample time to analyse the success patterns and will simply have to admit the areas in their own game that need big improvements to shift us.  And they WILL put the time and energy into those areas.  It's a WC year.  None of the top sides fix on being second best come the WC.

So, in a very real way................. from the very first game (and probably because of that very first smart, smart and well resourced opponent) I think Joe Schmidt will need to produce a new blueprint (or have one available and well rehearsed).  Something more than just a few well planned non-expected trained moves, more so a newish strategic outlook to catch the opponents out.

So.............. let's say we find ourselves surprisingly outfought and outmuscled at the essential breakdown point (I believe that time is approaching fast) - if it happens, the opponents will think us unprepared for the new reality and hopes we gasp for a non-prepared Plan Bs.  I think they'll hope we've been too smug to think seriously about a Plan B, panic and implode (back to traditional Ireland as it were )

So what plan B's could exist in the mind of Joe Schmidt if the scrum and breakdown physicality is this time matched and perhaps outshone?  I know Joe must be preparing for the day when it happens because let's face it, he's been telegraphing our 'strengths' now for some time.  He thinks about these visuals.  What the hell could a plan B be to still get us a win whilst being pushed off our bloody balls for 80 minutes?

Ireland are the best team in the world imho, cant wait to see where England are in comparison. England have no pressure on them.

For me, the result of this game hinges on the reffing of the breakdown.

If Ireland are penalised for diving over and taking players out beyond the ruck then the green tide will be reduced to a trickle.

TightHEAD wrote:Ireland are the best team in the world imho, cant wait to see where England are in comparison. England have no pressure on them.

England have a lot of pressure on them. While it is not the same as Ireland, who are clear favourites for the game, it is still there. Any team with ambitions to doing well at the WC have to start performing (and ranked 4th in the World England should have such ambition). England have to show that they can handle Ireland, primarily at the set piece, breakdown and kick chase. A 4th defeat in a row where we struggle in those areas v Ireland and the knives will be out. A defeat where we a competitive the whole game and there will be some leeway allowed to Eddie and his team.

munkian wrote:For me, the  result of this game hinges on the reffing of the breakdown.

If Ireland are penalised for diving over and taking players out beyond the ruck then the green tide will be reduced to a trickle.

But that's actually clockwork breakdown in practice. Another team wants to beat us at it, they'll have to place themselves under the eye of a ref too playing breakdown with the same 'fight'.

Very interesting and a fine team. Didn't think Jones would go with Slade at 13. Expected a Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi line up.

Some great players there. Good to see Nowell back and on the wing rather than at 7. Good player IMO.

Is Watson injured? I like Watson be he didn't have a great six nations. His attempted tackle on Huw Jones last year was poor and stuffed up a bit for Ringrose's try v Ireland too.

LondonTiger wrote:England starting XV (485 caps)
15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 25 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps), 12 Manu Tuiagi (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps), 11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 65 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps); 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 32 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 17 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 26 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 27 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 8 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 36 caps).
Finishers (206 caps)
16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps), 17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps), 19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 68 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 18 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps), 23 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 42 caps).

Brown and Launchbury left out.

Surprised by Launchbury's omission, but that's a good looking squad. There's a lot of carrying power to come off that bench with the likes of Genge, LCD, and Hughes.

Still very unsure about Daly at fullback. I'd have started Brown personally.

Like I said I'm.a huge Launchbury fan but with that weakened as shields is out lawes offers that cover coming on at 6. Still worried about Daly can't really hide his technique this game. It's make or break for him at 15.

SecretFly wrote:

munkian wrote:For me, the  result of this game hinges on the reffing of the breakdown.

If Ireland are penalised for diving over and taking players out beyond the ruck then the green tide will be reduced to a trickle.

But that's actually clockwork breakdown in practice.  Another team wants to beat us at it, they'll have to place themselves under the eye of a ref too playing breakdown with the same 'fight'.  

You mean, they'll have to cheat too ?

Other than Daly's inclusion at full-back, I'm quite happy with that selection. Strong looking bench as well. Probably won't be enough, overall, but let's see what happens. It will be a brutal, full-on contest, hopefully played in good spirit.

Collapse2005 wrote:
Is Watson injured? I like Watson be he didn't have a great six nations. His attempted tackle on Huw Jones last year was poor and stuffed up a bit for Ringrose's try v Ireland too.

Watson tore his achilles against Ireland last year. The operation to fix it was perhaps less than successful when he re-tore it during a photoshoot for the NFL in August. Second surgery happened and back then they were hopeful he would be playing by this month - a deadline that has not been met as we sit on the last day.

munkian wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

munkian wrote:For me, the  result of this game hinges on the reffing of the breakdown.

If Ireland are penalised for diving over and taking players out beyond the ruck then the green tide will be reduced to a trickle.

But that's actually clockwork breakdown in practice.  Another team wants to beat us at it, they'll have to place themselves under the eye of a ref too playing breakdown with the same 'fight'.  

You mean, they'll have to cheat too ?

Well now, I'll look very closely at the French/Welsh game and get back to you on that one, munk