Wales vs Ireland - Round 5

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Teams TBA Thursday the 14th March

Referee Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 1 Ben O'Keeffe (New Zelaand)
Assistant 2 Karl Dickson (England)
TMO Marius Jonker (South Africa)


Wales:

L Williams (Saracens); North (Ospreys), J Davies (Scarlets), Parkes (Scarlets), Adams (Worcester); Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), G Davies (Scarlets); R Evans (Scarlets), Owens (Scarlets), Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Beard (Ospreys), AW Jones (Ospreys, capt), Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Tipuric (Ospreys), Moriarty (Dragons).

Replacements: Dee (Dragons), Smith (Ospreys), D Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Ball (Scarlets), Wainwright (Dragons), A Davies (Ospreys), Biggar (Northampton), Watkin (Ospreys).



Ireland:


Kearney; Earls, Ringrose, Aki, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best (capt), Furlong, Beirne, Ryan, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Stander.

Replacements: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Porter, Roux, Conan, Marmion, Carty, Larmour.

I would have thought the weather would be a leveller in terms of pace of game favouring a strong defensive team. Ireland should close the roof and play balls out Rugby having faith in there 20+phase play. Now I've seen the forecast the more I'm edging towards Wales. Regardless of the style of victories this year if a grand slam comes fair play but please can we have a more exciting Wales next year because its been really tough watching you lot. You make Exeter look expansive and exciting in comparison.

Oi, get your kicks from your own team. Ya freeloader!

Fair point but still have a word with privac. No victory unless you score 4 tries where all 15 players have touched the ball without any rucks or mauls, must include two dummies a chip and regather. Thank you.

Ireland are, at best, equally as conservative/boring as Wales.

Neither team are boring FFS. Ireland do tend to score more tries than wales though.

Scarpia wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Schmidt has asked for the roof to be open as expected. Cant blame him. lets see how these soft Welsh guys handle a bit of rain. .

Ha ha. You are right of course. It never rains in Wales. That's why France beat us so convincingly.

Did wales win that game convincingly?

Collapse2005 wrote:

Scarpia wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Schmidt has asked for the roof to be open as expected. Cant blame him. lets see how these soft Welsh guys handle a bit of rain. .

Ha ha. You are right of course. It never rains in Wales. That's why France beat us so convincingly.

Did wales win that game convincingly?

On the scoreboard.

You were mouthing off just the other week about how lucky Wales are, so before you start, bore off. #FakeNews

I'd agree they're not consistently boring but they're not as entertaining to watch as NZ, Scotland, and (when they fire) England. But then both teams are capable of loosening up/moving the ball well. Ireland have some very good 'back' moves (involving forwards) but not really coming off at the moment - or perhaps saving them as it's a RWC year. Wales have the players to play not only an 'unstructured' (in reality, less structured) running and offloading game, but they also have an arsenal of wide-wide back moves that they haven't employed yet. This is why they're not peaking - because they've barely played any rugby.

A look at the Argentina tour gives a hint at what Wales will use at the RWC/in this game if necessary. At least 1 or 2 of those moves might come out at the weekend because I can't see Wales squeezing Ireland like they did to England. More likely going to have to win with 40-45% possession.

Lucky in that game and v SA last year. I didnt say they were lucky in general. You made that part up Mikey.

miaow wrote:Ireland are, at best, equally as conservative/boring as Wales.

Don’t forget Ireland have that Sexton wraparound loop thing. Like a special move on Street Fighter II.

Also, after years of Ireland's most exciting move being O'Gara kicking it crossfield to Horgan and Hickie, as they always do, Wales win any moral battle over style of play...

You are definitely winning the battle of pre match complaining. Will that be enough to win a slam?

Hey Collapse, when Ireland are good enough to get passed the 1st knockout game in a rugby world cup, then we can talk.

Are you not already talking to me?

All of this bravado and banter is to hide our insecurities really, Collapse. Not sure how we’re going to win against the no.2 team in the world (some might argue no.1). You’ve beaten the all blacks so Wales should be easy. Not sure how we’ll get near a team that beats the All Blacks when we can’t get near beating the Blacks ourselves. Gonna be near impossible. Fingers crossed for some luck

I think Wales have a great chance. As I said when a grand slam is on the line they usually make it happen and given its in Wales you would have to fancy them.

On the flip side I certainly wouldnt expect Ireland to roll over. They will definitely want to win for lots of reasons so I am backing them by a whisker.

By the way Ireland halted both New Zealand and Englands record win streaks. Wales for the threepeat?

Also Ireland will want to win the Raeburn shield back from Wales.

The Oracle wrote:All of this bravado and banter is to hide our insecurities really, Collapse. Not sure how we’re going to win against the no.2 team in the world (some might argue no.1). You’ve beaten the all blacks so Wales should be easy. Not sure how we’ll get near a team that beats the All Blacks when we can’t get near beating the Blacks ourselves. Gonna be near impossible. Fingers crossed for some luck

England beat the no 2 team in the world and England was playing in the no 2 team's home ground.

Wales now have their chance to beat the no 2 in the world, playing at home in front of there home crowd. It is going to be a tough game for both teams. I think it will either be a draw or one team might get a slight win. But to which team???

This has the potential to go down as one of the great 6Ns games, Grand Slam or not. If both teams perform to 80% it should be a fantastic game.

Id say the chances are it will be a bit tense and an arm wrestle. Wales will need AWJs leadership.

If Ireland do win can we take the Tiny Rebel pub home as a prize? Im quite fond of that place

Collapse2005 wrote:Id say the chances are it will be a bit tense and an arm wrestle. Wales will need AWJs leadership.

Absolutely. The more I look at this Welsh team, the more it feels like 'the best' in my lifetime. Yet it's still very conditional - lose AWJ or JD2, for instance, and I'm not sure the team is anywhere near as good they are with them. Tipuric, Ken, Biggar etc. - all great leadership figures. But AWJ is the leader. What PoC was to Ireland.

The style very much depends on what Ireland Schmidt have planned. Wales would be happy playing for a 21-14 win. That's their kind of game. If Schmidt has effectively given up on the title, and therefore has all eyes on the RWC, then he has a few options: one of which is to test his team against Wales, playing a brand of rugby we haven't necessarily seen yet. Give them the task of spoiling the party - insert your own pressure, talk up the title if you have to, to replicate a RWC quarter final, perhaps. But if Ireland come to play without the shackles - if they're willing to take risks and look to score some tries - it'll force Wales to play as well, something we've only seen in a controlled way against England, in fits and bursts against France, really, and maybe Scotland for parts of the first half. If Ireland manage to have even one quarter where the game is relatively open, or end to end, or involving running rugby...it would make for a great game.

I doubt they will, personally, but you never know. I felt like this was the game Schmidt would have targeted before the championship and see no different with the way the tournament has gone. I expect big things from Beirne, to the point where he might decide the game.

carpet baboon wrote:If Ireland do win can we take the Tiny Rebel pub home as a prize? Im quite fond of that place

Depends which one.

carpet baboon wrote:If Ireland do win can we take the Tiny Rebel pub home as a prize? Im quite fond of that place

You should try the Tiny Rebel brewery (with bar) in Newport. Lovely venue, although it’s out on an industrial estate!

miaow wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Id say the chances are it will be a bit tense and an arm wrestle. Wales will need AWJs leadership.

Absolutely. The more I look at this Welsh team, the more it feels like 'the best' in my lifetime. Yet it's still very conditional - lose AWJ or JD2, for instance, and I'm not sure the team is anywhere near as good they are with them. Tipuric, Ken, Biggar etc. - all great leadership figures. But AWJ is the leader.  What PoC was to Ireland.

The style very much depends on what Ireland Schmidt have planned. Wales would be happy playing for a 21-14 win. That's their kind of game. If Schmidt has effectively given up on the title, and therefore has all eyes on the RWC, then he has a few options: one of which is to test his team against Wales, playing a brand of rugby we haven't necessarily seen yet. Give them the task of spoiling the party - insert your own pressure, talk up the title if you have to, to replicate a RWC quarter final, perhaps. But if Ireland come to play without the shackles - if they're willing to take risks and look to score some tries - it'll force Wales to play as well, something we've only seen in a controlled way against England, in fits and bursts against France, really, and maybe Scotland for parts of the first half. If Ireland manage to have even one quarter where the game is relatively open, or end to end, or involving running rugby...it would make for a great game.

I doubt they will, personally, but you never know. I felt like this was the game Schmidt would have targeted before the championship and see no different with the way the tournament has gone. I expect big things from Beirne, to the point where he might decide the game.

I think back over the last 30 years of Welsh rugby AWJ will be one of the stand out players for me. Along with Neil Jenkins, Gibbs and Ieuan Evans.

10 years since Ireland won the slam in Cardiff. Another good omen.

Gatland seems to be having a bit of meltdown, first the roof then hitting out at Eddie Jones. He's running around trying to make out Wales are being written off despite nearly every pundit backing Wales to win the slam.

It's not so much that Ireland can't or don't play running rugby...it's more that they do it in such tiny windows through 80 that the opposition and observers think it didn't happen at all. But a game like this the style sometimes changes; ..big game for both sides still.
Ireland may not have GS to think about, and not even a title win to think about but there is enough incentive there to try to give one of their trademark A style games. It may be Gatland's last Six Nations with Wales but it's also Schmidt's last 6N game with Ireland -and they are still second ranked side in the world, something they'd lose to Wales if Wales get their Slam. So there is still quite a bit in this game for Ireland and in such a game they can surprise the opposition by doing the stuff they refused to do in earlier games -example: throwing longer adventurous passes that actually stick rather than the 'safe, close ones that 'seem' to be fumbled so much. Or finding more sudden punch through the middle when Wales might expect a longer sequence of familiar phase play. There are ways and an intensity that Ireland play when against a side like New Zealand for example that they won't often show against a side like Italy.
Ireland on this weekend, against this Wales side - and if they have their A game up to speed.... they'll have to play it.

As usual with games between these two, it tend to go to the wire; the final quarter seems to be most important period for alertness and accuracy. A lot of pressure on the shoulders of both side's subs, whichever of them show up.

carpet baboon wrote:If Ireland do win can we take the Tiny Rebel pub home as a prize? Im quite fond of that place

You can in your hole

It's that small eh?

SecretFly wrote:It's not so much that Ireland can't or don't play running rugby...it's more that they do it in such tiny windows through 80 that the opposition and observers think it didn't happen at all.  But a game like this the style sometimes changes;  ..big game for both sides still.  
Ireland may not have  GS to think about, and not even a title win to think about but there is enough incentive there to try to give one of their trademark A style games.  It may be Gatland's last Six Nations with Wales but it's also Schmidt's last 6N game with Ireland -and they are still second ranked side in the world, something they'd lose to Wales if Wales get their Slam.  So there is still quite a bit in this game for Ireland and in such a game they can surprise the opposition by doing the stuff they refused to do in earlier games -example:  throwing longer adventurous passes that actually stick rather than the 'safe, close ones that 'seem' to be fumbled so much.  Or finding more sudden punch through the middle when Wales might expect a longer sequence of familiar phase play.  There are ways and an intensity that Ireland play when against a side like New Zealand for example that they won't often show against a side like Italy.
Ireland on this weekend, against this Wales side - and if they have their A game up to speed.... they'll have to play it.  

As usual with games between these two, it tend to go to the wire;  the final quarter seems to be most important period for alertness and accuracy.  A lot of pressure on the shoulders of both side's subs, whichever of them show up.

Ireland have more tries than any side in the last 5 years except possibly England albeit the tally is quite close. You cant score tries if you don't attack.

Agree and I have always noted how magically the least showey side tends to get a good few tries.
But the little mini topic was whether or not Ireland would engage in any 'running rugby' periods with the Welsh. Tries don't always come from running rugby and Ireland are perhaps more renowned for their shuddering push over ones. But in a game like this, more running efforts might appear.

There’s a weather warning in place from the Met Office for high winds and rain so I think running rugby might be limited a little. Wet weather rugby calls for different tactics. Doesn’t mean it will be a less interesting game though. Still hoping for a cracker.

I still don't know if the roof is closed or opened. I've heard all the usual Eastenders drama on it, but has the decision been made?

SecretFly wrote:I still don't know if the roof is closed or opened.  I've heard all the usual Eastenders drama on it,  but has the decision been made?

It's down to your lads, not us.

I think the perception that Ireland don't attack or scores tries comes from the fact that relative to the possession and territory we tend to have we don't.

But over all we do score plenty of tries as well as make a good number of line breaks. I think what we still aren't great at is putting away all the chances we create.

If we did we'd be in a great position in terms of the title race as we blew 2 tries against Scotland and 2 against France. Against England there was a bit of panic late on which probably cost us a losing bonus and handed them one.

If you add that up we could have easily, despite our struggles, been going into this game with 16 points with England on 14/15.

I think these are important lessons for the younger guys.

Anyway, Gats is still saying he thinks he's being written off... but enjoys that sensation even more. Well, in his fantasy world we'll allow him the indulgence of thinking the world don't rate him or his team. Meanwhile both he and Jamie Roberts think Wales have the extra gears necessary to take the Slam.

Hmmm...does that mean they don't rate Joe and his boys? . All Wales have to do is show up and want it. The tension is building nicely.

Ireland v Wales, 6N 2018. That was a good game of running rugby, from memory. Both sides chucking it about and running in some good tries.

Munkian...well I guess the question was have our guys decided? Didn't Wales ask World Rugby to adjudicate?

If the Welsh prefer to play and spectate indoor sports, may I suggest badminton?

Collapse2005 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It's not so much that Ireland can't or don't play running rugby...it's more that they do it in such tiny windows through 80 that the opposition and observers think it didn't happen at all.  But a game like this the style sometimes changes;  ..big game for both sides still.  
Ireland may not have  GS to think about, and not even a title win to think about but there is enough incentive there to try to give one of their trademark A style games.  It may be Gatland's last Six Nations with Wales but it's also Schmidt's last 6N game with Ireland -and they are still second ranked side in the world, something they'd lose to Wales if Wales get their Slam.  So there is still quite a bit in this game for Ireland and in such a game they can surprise the opposition by doing the stuff they refused to do in earlier games -example:  throwing longer adventurous passes that actually stick rather than the 'safe, close ones that 'seem' to be fumbled so much.  Or finding more sudden punch through the middle when Wales might expect a longer sequence of familiar phase play.  There are ways and an intensity that Ireland play when against a side like New Zealand for example that they won't often show against a side like Italy.
Ireland on this weekend, against this Wales side - and if they have their A game up to speed.... they'll have to play it.  

As usual with games between these two, it tend to go to the wire;  the final quarter seems to be most important period for alertness and accuracy.  A lot of pressure on the shoulders of both side's subs, whichever of them show up.

Ireland have more tries than any side in the last 5 years except possibly England albeit the tally is quite close. You cant score tries if you don't attack.

Before this tournament, England had 75 over 5 seasons, Ireland had 73, Wales had 62.

Given the 5 tournaments mentioned, with the Championships split between England and Ireland, you'd expect them to have scored more points and therefore tries. It's not necessarily through more ambitious rugby. Before this tournament Ireland had won 16% more games than Wales and scored 15% more tries, so it's basically in line.

This tournament, Wales have obviously been the most successful team to date but have done so despite scoring fewer tries, which suggests a more conservative pattern of play in this year. Previous to this year, the team scoring more tries on the whole had a better tournament, so it's more a question of better rugby than style of rugby.

robbo277 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It's not so much that Ireland can't or don't play running rugby...it's more that they do it in such tiny windows through 80 that the opposition and observers think it didn't happen at all.  But a game like this the style sometimes changes;  ..big game for both sides still.  
Ireland may not have  GS to think about, and not even a title win to think about but there is enough incentive there to try to give one of their trademark A style games.  It may be Gatland's last Six Nations with Wales but it's also Schmidt's last 6N game with Ireland -and they are still second ranked side in the world, something they'd lose to Wales if Wales get their Slam.  So there is still quite a bit in this game for Ireland and in such a game they can surprise the opposition by doing the stuff they refused to do in earlier games -example:  throwing longer adventurous passes that actually stick rather than the 'safe, close ones that 'seem' to be fumbled so much.  Or finding more sudden punch through the middle when Wales might expect a longer sequence of familiar phase play.  There are ways and an intensity that Ireland play when against a side like New Zealand for example that they won't often show against a side like Italy.
Ireland on this weekend, against this Wales side - and if they have their A game up to speed.... they'll have to play it.  

As usual with games between these two, it tend to go to the wire;  the final quarter seems to be most important period for alertness and accuracy.  A lot of pressure on the shoulders of both side's subs, whichever of them show up.

Ireland have more tries than any side in the last 5 years except possibly England albeit the tally is quite close. You cant score tries if you don't attack.

Before this tournament, England had 75 over 5 seasons, Ireland had 73, Wales had 62.

Given the 5 tournaments mentioned, with the Championships split between England and Ireland, you'd expect them to have scored more points and therefore tries. It's not necessarily through more ambitious rugby. Before this tournament Ireland had won 16% more games than Wales and scored 15% more tries, so it's basically in line.

This tournament, Wales have obviously been the most successful team to date but have done so despite scoring fewer tries, which suggests a more conservative pattern of play in this year. Previous to this year, the team scoring more tries on the whole had a better tournament, so it's more a question of better rugby than style of rugby.

We’ve had about 5 tries disallowed, don’t forget!

BamBam wrote:If the Welsh prefer to play and spectate indoor sports, may I suggest badminton?

Haha

SecretFly wrote:Anyway, Gats is still saying he thinks he's being written off... but enjoys that sensation even more.  Well, in his fantasy world we'll allow him the indulgence of thinking the world don't rate him or his team.  Meanwhile both he and Jamie Roberts think Wales have the extra gears necessary to take the Slam.

Well they are hoping they have, also the claims about being the fittest side have come out again.

If you ask me Gats is feeling the heat, Schmidt has pulled a master stroke over the roof. I expect the 6N to overturn the decision but the psychological damage is done.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Anyway, Gats is still saying he thinks he's being written off... but enjoys that sensation even more.  Well, in his fantasy world we'll allow him the indulgence of thinking the world don't rate him or his team.  Meanwhile both he and Jamie Roberts think Wales have the extra gears necessary to take the Slam.

Well they are hoping they have, also the claims about being the fittest side have come out again.

If you ask me Gats is feeling the heat, Schmidt has pulled a master stroke over the roof. I expect the 6N to overturn the decision but the psychological damage is done.    

What do you mean by overturn the decision? There has been no decision. There has been a request by Wales and then Ireland get to decide. That’s how it always is. Thems the rules. No decision has been made.

Part of me wishes there was no roof at the stadium, so we wouldn't have the same tedious discussion about it every time there's a game there.

Part of me wishes we didn’t have semi-fake grass either but, you know, progression, etc.

Got to love the BBC false reporting:

Gatland believes Wales are fitter than any team in the championship.

"We've worked in the down weeks and we've trained as hard as any team I've seen," he added.

"We've put that training in the bank and there is no way anyone is training as hard as us in this Six Nations.

"We talk about emotion but there are opportunities in life which come around and if you take those moments with both hands you can really build on that momentum."

At no point does he say we’re the fittest team. He says he believes we’re training hardest. And then people believe this sh*t that the bbc claim.

Just how Does one team get to be fitter / or 'train harder' than another at this level? I don't doubt it that in some years, some of these higher ranking sides DO look fresher after heavy duty games than other teams... but how do you do that if everyone knows the science of being fittest/training hard... and players from England, Ireland and to a lesser extent, Scotland, know how Gatland's fitness system operates given he's been Lions coach a few times now?
So how does a team pull these fast ones and become the blue ribboned side of fitness just when they want and need to be?

Answers on the back of a matchbox because I know the grunts will be brief and guarded ,

SecretFly wrote:Just how Does one team get to be fitter / or 'train harder' than another at this level?  I don't doubt it that in some years, some of these higher ranking sides DO look fresher after heavy duty games than other teams... but how do you do that if everyone knows the science of being fittest/training hard... and players from England, Ireland and to a lesser extent, Scotland, know how Gatland's fitness system operates given he's been Lions coach a few times now?
So how does a team pull these fast ones and become the blue ribboned side of fitness just when they want and need to be?

Answers on the back of a matchbox because I know the grunts will be brief and guarded ,

Ask the BBC. They’re the ones claiming it.

The Oracle wrote:Part of me wishes we didn’t have semi-fake grass either but, you know, progression, etc.

It's the 'will they, won't they' every time I find tedious. I don't have a problem with roofs!