The Sponsors and Advertising Discussion Thread

[the-goon]

First topic message reminder :

There will always be good reason to discuss the influence and the effects of corporate money input sport.

[LeinsterFan4life]

So Diageo, a big soulless beverage conglomerate who rely on getting people addicted to one of the most damaging drugs in the world to turn a hefty profit has decided they are some sort of white knights and have ended a 50 year long association with LI. Pathetic.

[Heaf]

It will be funny if their virtue signalling backfires and their sales now drop ...

[Pete330v2]

It's utterly pathetic, a company that ruins lives and kills many thousands every year throws it's arms up in mock horror at a young man trying to get his life back on track after facing the false allegations of a fantasist.
Any word on what in particular they took offence to? Or is it a resumption of the usual vague platitudes? Is it the WhatsApp messages not sent by Paddy or the outcome of the trial they find offensive.
Don't attempt to grasp the moral high ground if you have no morals of your own.

[Collapse2005]

They did nothing until it was reported that a feminist group in Belfast were protesting the move. Its embarassing.

[No 7&1/2]

Truly eye opening.

[LondonTiger]

LI should stop stocking Guinness.

[SecretFly]

Why do we keep calling these groups across the world 'Feminist'?

They are nothing more than Political Activist Groups, funded through many avenues by high powered lobbyists trying to change the very political systems we now live under in the 'west'.  It doesn't matter what they call themselves, whether they champion 'women's' rights, 'gender alt' rights, 'climate change' etc, etc.

Political  Feminists are funded and they use specific cases to gain oxygen and attention for their political goals.  People are afraid to attack them politically because they attach themselves to the highly emotive tag lines.  "Don't criticise our motives, our methods or our goals!  Don't dare.  You have been warned.  Blacklisting will follow if you persist"

In essence they are blunt Political Parties that run around shouting but who can't then be robustly challenged themselves.

Maybe the Feminist Group in Belfast will give a list of who funds them (as political parties have to) and maybe then they could go out on the street and dedicate a day's protest against women who besmirch other women by making false/potentially very criminal accusations against men either for personal gain or perhaps to present cases to the media to further the 'feminist' movement's political goals.

[SirBurger]

It's utterly pathetic, a company that ruins lives and kills many thousands every year throws it's arms up in mock horror at a young man trying to get his life back on track after facing the false allegations of a fantasist.
Any word on what in particular they took offence to? Or is it a resumption of the usual vague platitudes? Is it the WhatsApp messages not sent by Paddy or the outcome of the trial they find offensive.
Don't attempt to grasp the moral high ground if you have no morals of your own.

Their statement was embarrassingly vague.

[Standulstermen]

Fair play to LI for sticking to their guns. Were Guinness a major sponsor though? They don’t appear on their shirts it seems or certainly aren’t the main sponsor which is (I believe) the owners company.

I can see sales of Guinness taking a decent hit at ravenhill but not beyond that

[Pete330v2]

It has to be said, well done London Irish for standing by YOUR values which are infinitely more admirable than Diageo's. Paddy's new bosses are showing more loyalty and common sense than his old employers ever did. I would already have been supporting LI next season but now it'll be with added ferocity and a pint of Murphy's.

[SecretFly]

I'm never going to drink it ever again!!!!!  I take my stances seriously!  I'll make the sacrifice.  

Please Crowd fund me if you're sympathetic about any withdrawal symptoms and PTSD I experience.

"Fly, last time you drank the stuff was well over 20 years ago."

Shut it, guilty conscience!!!!!
 

[Sin é]

Seriously lads, Brand Jackson is toxic. No company would want their brand (which they spend millions on promoting) anywhere near Jackson.

[Collapse2005]

Seriously lads, Brand Jackson is toxic. No company would want their brand (which they spend millions on promoting) anywhere near Jackson.

Well given he was only found guilty of going out and having a few beers and having a good time I would have thought the two brands would be a match made in heaven.

[Sin é]

Seriously lads, Brand Jackson is toxic. No company would want their brand (which they spend millions on promoting) anywhere near Jackson.

Well given he was only found guilty of going out and having a few beers and having a good time I would have thought the two brands would be a match made in heaven.

A few beers

Just listening to Fergus Finlay (former CEO of Bernados and political activist) saying that on a voluntary basis he chaired a group called 'Stop It' (I think) which was funded by Guinness and promoted responsible drinking. He though that Guinness were right to withdraw their sponsorship because of the irresponsible use of alcohol by all those involved around that case.

[Collapse2005]

Yeah cause Diageo really care about the irresponsible use of alcohol. Oh jeepers.

[rodders]

Seriously lads, Brand Jackson is toxic. No company would want their brand (which they spend millions on promoting) anywhere near Jackson.

Well given he was only found guilty of going out and having a few beers and having a good time I would have thought the two brands would be a match made in heaven.

A few beers

Just listening to Fergus Finlay (former CEO of Bernados and political activist) saying that on a voluntary basis he chaired a group called 'Stop It' (I think) which was funded by Guinness and promoted responsible drinking. He though that Guinness were right to withdraw their sponsorship because of the irresponsible use of alcohol by all those involved around that case.

I agree Sin, proper 12 whiskey would probably be a better fit for Jackon.

[Sin é]

Yeah cause Diageo really care about the irresponsible use of alcohol. Oh jeepers.

They have to, otherwise they will be stopped promoting their brands. Regina Doherty TD on twitter this morning.

Watching @RTE_PrimeTime on plus 1 - the only thing that is crystal clear to me from Diageo decision today, is that no alcoholic drink has any place in sports sponsorship

'Guinness Clear' ad campaign launched by BOD and Dayglo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=907B0pAed_k

Former Irish international rugby player Brian O’Driscoll and former English international and World Cup winning rugby player Lawrence Dallaglio were at St. James’s Gate to launch the #GuinnessClear campaign and encourage all rugby fans to drink responsibly throughout the GUINNESS SIX NATIONS by drinking GUINNESS Clear to moderate their drinking choices.

By drinking plenty of water at a social occasion, the body is kept hydrated and it helps people to moderate their drinking. Water is a positive choice and should be celebrated.

[SecretFly]

Seriously lads, Brand Jackson is toxic. No company would want their brand (which they spend millions on promoting) anywhere near Jackson.

Who is Company, Sin?  What's his first name?

Company doesn't have a vote.  

Now, the executives within a company like Diageo, that's who I'm interested in.  They are people, they have first names, they can vote and on average, by percentages, based on odds and number of execs a company like Diageo has, I'd bet more than one of them have had sleazy threesomes in their time.  I just look at society in total and I say a company like Diageo can't have been blessed to have avoided the 'stain' of such characters working for them
So again, it is really all about perception.  The girl that accused Jackson and others (he was named, she wasn't) has ruined his reputation, his full earning potential, lost him any good name he had, and allowed people who potentially had drunken threesomes themselves to say his sort are unsupportable.

I don't think you're wrong in the cold hard economic truth of what you said.  But perhaps society itself is the sleazy thing.  And I think the main problem is this:  Had the girl been subsequently charged with making a false claim, had she been put on trial (as the players were) had she been found guilty of a crime herself.... would Diageo have been then okay with Jackson?

The fact that so many of these assault/r*** trials are left hanging in the air, the fact that people can get to say that the judge didn't exactly say he was innocent, the fact that an accuser gets to remain protected even when an accusation is unproven...that's the problem

False claims must be challenged in courts, with criminal penalties for those found 'guilty'.

[Sin é]

Seriously lads, Brand Jackson is toxic. No company would want their brand (which they spend millions on promoting) anywhere near Jackson.

Well given he was only found guilty of going out and having a few beers and having a good time I would have thought the two brands would be a match made in heaven.

A few beers

Just listening to Fergus Finlay (former CEO of Bernados and political activist) saying that on a voluntary basis he chaired a group called 'Stop It' (I think) which was funded by Guinness and promoted responsible drinking. He though that Guinness were right to withdraw their sponsorship because of the irresponsible use of alcohol by all those involved around that case.

I agree Sin, proper 12 whiskey would probably be a better fit for Jackon.

I'd agree with you Rods on that.

[Standulstermen]

what baffles me is why they didnt engage with LI before the signing was made if they are so very concerned. Load of nonsense. THe net result is (hopefully) less sales for Guinness but a lot more pressure on Jackson to perform. Good luck to him.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Yeah cause Diageo really care about the irresponsible use of alcohol. Oh jeepers.

They have to, otherwise they will be stopped promoting their brands. Regina Doherty TD on twitter this morning.

Watching @RTE_PrimeTime on plus 1 - the only thing that is crystal clear to me from Diageo decision today, is that no alcoholic drink has any place in sports sponsorship

'Guinness Clear' ad campaign launched by BOD and Dayglo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=907B0pAed_k

Former Irish international rugby player Brian O’Driscoll and former English international and World Cup winning rugby player Lawrence Dallaglio were at St. James’s Gate to launch the #GuinnessClear campaign and encourage all rugby fans to drink responsibly throughout the GUINNESS SIX NATIONS by drinking GUINNESS Clear to moderate their drinking choices.

By drinking plenty of water at a social occasion, the body is kept hydrated and it helps people to moderate their drinking. Water is a positive choice and should be celebrated.

Corporate mumbo jumbo. Like I said earlier Diageo rely on people becoming addicted to the stuff in order to fund their billion dollar investments into other drinks brands. I'll stand with LI and Ulster fans and boycott their stuff.

[SecretFly]

Potentially in court accused of underperforming????

[Collapse2005]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/r***-crisis-network-slams-r***-victim-blaming-ads-667305.html

Not the first time Diageo has been put under pressure with respect to links between sexual exploitation and alcohol.

[Collapse2005]

Yeah cause Diageo really care about the irresponsible use of alcohol. Oh jeepers.

They have to, otherwise they will be stopped promoting their brands. Regina Doherty TD on twitter this morning.

Watching @RTE_PrimeTime on plus 1 - the only thing that is crystal clear to me from Diageo decision today, is that no alcoholic drink has any place in sports sponsorship

'Guinness Clear' ad campaign launched by BOD and Dayglo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=907B0pAed_k

Former Irish international rugby player Brian O’Driscoll and former English international and World Cup winning rugby player Lawrence Dallaglio were at St. James’s Gate to launch the #GuinnessClear campaign and encourage all rugby fans to drink responsibly throughout the GUINNESS SIX NATIONS by drinking GUINNESS Clear to moderate their drinking choices.

By drinking plenty of water at a social occasion, the body is kept hydrated and it helps people to moderate their drinking. Water is a positive choice and should be celebrated.

Corporate mumbo jumbo. Like I said earlier Diageo rely on people becoming addicted to the stuff in order to fund their billion dollar investments into other drinks brands. I'll stand with LI and Ulster fans and boycott their stuff.

Me too and I already do as a complete teetotaler.

How anyone cant see the complete conflict of interest of having a drinks company leading drinking responsibly campaigns is a source of bafflement to me. The campaigns are cleverly run with the obvious aim of boosting their image and sales. Of course they are, they are a business after all.

Drink Guinness...……….

...responsibly.

but yeah seriously do drink Guinness. The more Guinness you drink the more responsible you are.

[SecretFly]

Diageo:

Please do not drink too much of our product as we are not a company hungry for profit and instead care about you.

lots of Love and kisses to your families,

Diageo.

[rodders]

what baffles me is why they didnt engage with LI before the signing was made if they are so very concerned. Load of nonsense. THe net result is (hopefully) less sales for Guinness but a lot more pressure on Jackson to perform. Good luck to him.

Stand the sponsors obviously are reacting to public response, which is what they are entitled to do.

I would say it was LI who made the mistake in not consulting their key stakeholders before entering negotiations with Jackson.

[Collapse2005]

Isnt it amazing that Diageo has made no comment whatsoever on LI signing a guy who got really drunk and urinated on a member of the public.

[SecretFly]

Shush...I think it might have been Guinness that he peed out

[SecretFly]

It had a good head on it anyway, I'm told

[Sin é]

Seriously lads, Brand Jackson is toxic. No company would want their brand (which they spend millions on promoting) anywhere near Jackson.

Who is Company, Sin?  What's his first name?

Company doesn't have a vote.  

Now, the executives within a company like Diageo, that's who I'm interested in.  They are people, they have first names, they can vote and on average, by percentages, based on odds and number of execs a company like Diageo has, I'd bet more than one of them have had sleazy threesomes in their time.  I just look at society in total and I say a company like Diageo can't have been blessed to have avoided the 'stain' of such characters working for them

Well Fly, having worked briefly some years ago for Guinness Sales in St James Gate, I have first hand knowlege of their employee code of conduct to do around the consumpion of alcohol. Obviously, there would be a lot of pub promotions, reps did not drink (they would nurse a glass of guinness all night. My manager would require us to be in the office at 8am every morning and lateness would not be tolerated, even though you might have been out until 12pm the night before. When I was there, one of the admin staff had a bit of a drink problem (erratic behaviour, late to work) - she was sent off to rehab it by the company. By the way, Guinness was a brilliant company to work for.

So again, it is really all about perception.  The girl that accused Jackson and others (he was named, she wasn't) has ruined his reputation, his full earning potential, lost him any good name he had, and allowed people who potentially had drunken threesomes themselves to say his sort are unsupportable.

Paddy still has a well paid job.

I don't think you're wrong in the cold hard economic truth of what you said.  But perhaps society itself is the sleazy thing.  And I think the main problem is this:  Had the girl been subsequently charged with making a false claim, had she been put on trial (as the players were) had she been found guilty of a crime herself.... would Diageo have been then okay with Jackson?

Look, the lads treated the girl like Poopie irrespective. The way they treated her is not compatible with the values that rugby like to boast of.

The fact that so many of these assault/r*** trials are left hanging in the air, the fact that people can get to say that the judge didn't exactly say he was innocent, the fact that an accuser gets to remain protected even when an accusation is unproven...that's the problem

False claims must be challenged in courts, with criminal penalties for those found 'guilty'.

Its up to the police/prosecutor to filter out the false claims. I do think there is a better system in how these cases are dealt with here in the ROI (name not released of the accused, court cases not open to the general public).

[SecretFly]

what baffles me is why they didnt engage with LI before the signing was made if they are so very concerned. Load of nonsense. THe net result is (hopefully) less sales for Guinness but a lot more pressure on Jackson to perform. Good luck to him.

Stand the sponsors obviously are reacting to public response, which is what they are entitled to do.

I would say it was LI who made the mistake in not consulting their key stakeholders before entering negotiations with Jackson.  

Yeah...like the public response to Folau, who has been outcast. And the one for Vunapola who was told not to be a naughty boy no more but got to stay on.. *whew* goes Jones, "Thank Christ for the varieties of public opinion"

[Collapse2005]

what baffles me is why they didnt engage with LI before the signing was made if they are so very concerned. Load of nonsense. THe net result is (hopefully) less sales for Guinness but a lot more pressure on Jackson to perform. Good luck to him.

Stand the sponsors obviously are reacting to public response, which is what they are entitled to do.

I would say it was LI who made the mistake in not consulting their key stakeholders before entering negotiations with Jackson.  

The only real noise is predictably coming from a feminist group based in Belfast. Nice to see LI show some balls and see through the nonsense.

[Sin é]

Isnt it amazing that Diageo has made no comment whatsoever on LI signing a guy who got really drunk and urinated on a member of the public.

Think the IRFU are still dealing with it and its up in the air if SOB will actually be able to play rugby again. They won't need to say anything now anyway, as they are cancelling their sponsorship. Who knows, maybe a combination of the incidents surrounding these two players maybe why Guinness decided to get out as it was too much trouble.

[rodders]

Me too and I already do as a complete teetotaler.

How anyone cant see the complete conflict of interest of having a drinks company leading drinking responsibly campaigns is a source of bafflement to me. The campaigns are cleverly run with the obvious aim of boosting their image and sales. Of course they are, they are a business after all.

Drink Guinness...……….

...responsibly.

but yeah seriously do drink Guinness. The more Guinness you drink the more responsible you are.

Sorry but I completely disagree with that, Diageo aren't responsible for their consumers behavior if they over indulge any more than Cadburys are responsible for people being fat.

No commercial company is going to say buy are product but not too much of it.

[SecretFly]

The movers, shakers, shifters, financiers, philosophers, strategists and sponsorship sealers, Sin.  That's the folks I'm talking about.  You might have seen one or two of them float through to higher offices in your time, but I doubt you've met many of them and I doubt they get company code of conduct applied to them in their journeys around the world to exotic places.
The big guys that control the deals, Sin.

[rodders]

what baffles me is why they didnt engage with LI before the signing was made if they are so very concerned. Load of nonsense. THe net result is (hopefully) less sales for Guinness but a lot more pressure on Jackson to perform. Good luck to him.

Stand the sponsors obviously are reacting to public response, which is what they are entitled to do.

I would say it was LI who made the mistake in not consulting their key stakeholders before entering negotiations with Jackson.  

The only real noise is predictably coming from a feminist group based in Belfast. Nice to see LI show some balls and see through the nonsense.

That is simply not true, concerns are much more wide spread including parents of members of the underage teams.

How much Guinness do you think Belfast feminist drink?

[Collapse2005]

Me too and I already do as a complete teetotaler.

How anyone cant see the complete conflict of interest of having a drinks company leading drinking responsibly campaigns is a source of bafflement to me. The campaigns are cleverly run with the obvious aim of boosting their image and sales. Of course they are, they are a business after all.

Drink Guinness...……….

...responsibly.

but yeah seriously do drink Guinness. The more Guinness you drink the more responsible you are.

Sorry but I completely disagree with that, Diageo aren't responsible for their consumers behavior if they over indulge any more than Cadburys are responsible for people being fat.

No commercial company is going to say buy are product but not too much of it.

I don't think I claimed they were responsible for their behaviour all I said is they don't care how their customers behave as long as they remain profitable.

Sounds like you agree with me.

[SecretFly]

How much Guinness do you think Belfast feminist drink?

Do we have to be honest? I'm afraid of them gals if Iget honest

[Standulstermen]

what baffles me is why they didnt engage with LI before the signing was made if they are so very concerned. Load of nonsense. THe net result is (hopefully) less sales for Guinness but a lot more pressure on Jackson to perform. Good luck to him.

Stand the sponsors obviously are reacting to public response, which is what they are entitled to do.

I would say it was LI who made the mistake in not consulting their key stakeholders before entering negotiations with Jackson.  

They offered to meet Diageo but the offer wasn't taken up. I would argue its a vocal minority that are causing the hassle. I know a few LI fans and certainly they seem to feel it isnt being driven by the vast majority of their fanbase. Guinness absolutely have the right to remove their brand from wherever they choose but dont dress it up. The reality is they had no bother compromising their 'values' but waited to see what the comeback would be.

[No 7&1/2]

The whole cycle comes round to how many of you consider yourselves a feminist then. Which then ties into the actual rugby believe it or not. Rugby is there for the community to be entertained and to of course attend the games and buy things at the ground. The choice of players is important to the soul of the club.

[Collapse2005]

what baffles me is why they didnt engage with LI before the signing was made if they are so very concerned. Load of nonsense. THe net result is (hopefully) less sales for Guinness but a lot more pressure on Jackson to perform. Good luck to him.

Stand the sponsors obviously are reacting to public response, which is what they are entitled to do.

I would say it was LI who made the mistake in not consulting their key stakeholders before entering negotiations with Jackson.  

The only real noise is predictably coming from a feminist group based in Belfast. Nice to see LI show some balls and see through the nonsense.

That is simply not true, concerns are much more wide spread including parents of members of the underage teams.

How much Guinness do you think Belfast feminist drink?

First I have heard of it. What are these parents afraid of? That Paddy the boogey man will hypnotise them with his ginger hair and cloven hooves if he appears on TV in a rugby game.

[Collapse2005]

Fair enough Rodders, your call.  

[rodders]

They offered to meet Diageo but the offer wasn't taken up.

Well I stand corrected, then I do have some sympathy with LI but Diageo are still entitled to do a u-turn for commercial reasons.

[SecretFly]

The whole cycle comes round to how many of you consider yourselves a feminist then. Which then ties into the actual rugby believe it or not. Rugby is there for the community to be entertained and to of course attend the games and buy things at the ground. The choice of players is important to the soul of the club.

Sorry, 7, but does this mean to suggest that if you're a feminist, you must naturally agree with Diageo's decision?

Was the woman who accused Jackson and the other players telling the truth or telling a lie?  Is that ever entered into the head and calculations of activist feminists?

And therefore it's feminists who should ask themselves: Am I vocal in my support of this woman because she is innocent or simply because she is a 'she'?  

Can women be guilty of making serious and criminal false accusations against men?  Yes - they can be.

[Standulstermen]

They are indeed rodders. Just dont dress it up is all I say. Shows a lack of spine imo which in fairness was also lacking from UR but at least London Irish have shown it.

[rodders]

Fair enough Rodders, your call.  

Best be on safe side with that

Re: Diageo I just don't see the story here, they want to protect their image for commercial reasons but that itself dispels the myth that it is just a small minority who have concerns. It's the fact that there are potential loss of significant profit that is prompting these brands to act.

[No 7&1/2]

It's just fairly evident fly that some people preferred how it was rather than how it's going to be.

[Collapse2005]

Parts of NI are uber conservative with respect to promiscuity. Hypothetical question but imagine you are a woman and engaging in a threesome (not against the law) and one of your peers (who you know but aren't friends with) walks in and witnesses it.

I wonder would you be worried about whether or not you would be the talk of the town and what impact that might have one you in a place like Belfast.

[rodders]

The whole cycle comes round to how many of you consider yourselves a feminist then. Which then ties into the actual rugby believe it or not. Rugby is there for the community to be entertained and to of course attend the games and buy things at the ground. The choice of players is important to the soul of the club.

Sorry, 7, but does this mean to suggest that if you're a feminist, you must naturally agree with Diageo's decision?

Was the woman who accused Jackson and the other players telling the truth or telling a lie?  Is that ever entered into the head and calculations of activist feminists?

And therefore it's feminists who should ask themselves:  Am I vocal in my support of this woman because she is innocent or simply because she is a 'she'?  

Can women be guilty of making serious and criminal false accusations against men?  Yes - they can be.

Fly please lets be careful here where this is going, there was no suggestion of false allegations in the verdict.

[Collapse2005]

Fair enough Rodders, your call.  

Best be on safe side with that

Re: Diageo I just don't see the story here, they want to protect their image for commercial reasons but that itself dispels the myth that it is just a small minority who have concerns. It's the fact that there are potential loss of significant profit that is prompting these brands to act.  

Yeah but don't dress it up as not aligning with your values.

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