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Pro 14 2019/2020 Season

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Pro 14 2019/2020 Season - Page 15 Empty Pro 14 2019/2020 Season

Post by Welshmushroom on Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

From a Dragons fan perspective looking ahead into the new season and which sides I would like to catch early in the Pro14 due to players having gone to the World Cup.

Obviously Hill, Dee & Moriarty will be big misses for us during this period. I think we may have Wainwright available (if they end up picking Shingler to cover Lock/Blindside). Think Brown probably wont make the cut either.

So hopefully our starter lineup will look like this:
1. Bevington 2. Hibbard 3. Brown/Fairbrother 4. Nansen 5. Screech 6. Wainwright 7. Griffiths 8. Evans
9. Williams 10. Davies 11. Rosser 12. Dixon 13. Morgan 14. Howells 15. Williams

Now looking at the other sides in the competition it would be great if we could catch some of the league powerhouses early. My Breakdown of the other teams:-

1. Scarlets - Look weak in the front 3. Possibly a weakness at outside centre as well. Would imagine they will be playing Asquith at 12 during this period. McNicholl will probably be the star man on this team opening rounds.

2. Blues - On paper even without the internationals they look a seasoned well rounded team. Probably dangerous for any team in the league during the opening rounds. Halaholo is my star man pick but the entire Blues 8 are extremely experienced (although I don't rate Gill much). Also unclear if Ellis will recover from injury or if he will end up parachuted into Wales WC Squad. If not he will just add to that fairly experienced pack.

3. Ospreys - Will have a fairly competitive pack assuming Bradley doesn't make the cut for the World Cup. The real weakness for them is in the backline. At 9 currently they will be playing rookies and 13 potentially as well unless they opt to play Hook at 12 and move Allen to 13. Giles will probably end up on the wing as well and while he has potential - defensively they may struggle against experienced backlines. That said they probably have enough upfront to power over most teams in the league. Star Man will be Bradley Davies if he doesn't make the world cup.

4. Munster - Probably going to missing around 11 players on World Cup duty. To me Tighthead and at 8 they look particularly weak. To me the backline also looks a little short on quality although granted they do have some potential in the backline.Personally I would like to catch them at Rodney Parade early. I'm still not sure away would be a banker for us. Reckon their key man will be Bleyendaal in the opening part of the season for his experience.

5. Leinster - Now I don't know if they still have the rule of not being able to select 2 non irish players in their starting 15's or if they are allowed exceptions in the early part of this season. Even taking into consideration that they can start Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Tomane the real problem for them is in the pack. They look seriously underpowered and inexperienced. They probably are hoping Smidt doesn't take Ruddock to the WC. Personally getting these in R2 or R3 away would be perfect. I think we can take them early doors before the return of their internationals. Star Man: Lowe

6. Ulster - For me probably the biggest Irish threat early. Only place they might be a little short on experience will be at 5 and 14. Pack on paper looks extremely strong and along with Cardiff both these sides should be fairly confident into the early rounds. Star Man: McCloskey
Would like to avoid these early doors altogether.

7. Connacht - Not really disrupted to much for internationals like us. Good experienced team. Always going to be dangerous at home. Star Man: Roux Another side I would like to see us avoid early doors but if we have to a home draw that wouldn't be the worst fixture start for us.

8. Edinburgh - Cockerill has done a amazing job with them. Surely even he can't cover 14 players at the world cup. Still managed to assemble a big pack for this period though so it's clear they wont be beaten upfront easily. 9, 10 and 15 look like the real problem area for him. Getting them at home would suit me fine. Star Man: Socino

9. Glasgow - Probably losing at least 13 players if not more. They still have a lot of experience in that squad. On paper probably have to much for us home or away. If we have to though a home draw would be better. Star Man: Lee Jones

10. Treviso - Backline looks very experienced for the league. Upfront a different story altogether. Can see them taking a bit of a battering upfront early doors. Star Man: Ioane
Don't mind if we get them early home or away

11. Zebre - Same story with them. Losing key personnel to the WC. Upfront looks very inexperienced. Backline will also be inexperienced. Can they get Boni back in time for the start of the season. The Centre was a powerhouse before his long term injury and would also have made the Italian squad if he wasn't out of action. Star Man: Walker (reckon he's going to surprise a few in the Pro14)

12. Kings - Not going to be missing any internationals. But they still lack quality for compete at this level. No signings of note in the off season. Could be a long season for them again? Personally I expect us to beat them home and away. Would be a waste to draw them during the World Cup period. Star Man: Catrakilis

13. Cheetahs - Same story as the Kings. To many lost star after their first season in the Pro14. They do have a better record than the kings and at home they will win games. Prefer to not draw them either in the opening rounds. Star Man: Nche

How do you fancy your teams chances and what teams would you like to draw early or avoid during the World Cup?



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Post by PhilBB on Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:45 pm

I haven’t heard about any others, nor have I bothered to check. What point were you making?
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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:50 pm

PhilBB wrote:I haven’t heard about any others, nor have I bothered to check. What point were you making?
You said they can afford to rest "players" for the final. I'm asking which players were rested, this is very basic stuff...

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Post by PhilBB on Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:01 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:I haven’t heard about any others, nor have I bothered to check. What point were you making?
You said they can afford to rest "players" for the final. I'm asking which players were rested, this is very basic stuff...

You’re right, it is.

I’ll retract, at the this stage, the superfluous s whilst waiting for whatever point you’re trying to make
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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:11 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:I haven’t heard about any others, nor have I bothered to check. What point were you making?
You said they can afford to rest "players" for the final. I'm asking which players were rested, this is very basic stuff...

You’re right, it is.

I’ll retract, at the this stage, the superfluous s whilst waiting for whatever point you’re trying to make
You're the one who made the point, I'm asking you the back up said point... again very, very basic stuff.

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Post by PhilBB on Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:25 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:I haven’t heard about any others, nor have I bothered to check. What point were you making?
You said they can afford to rest "players" for the final. I'm asking which players were rested, this is very basic stuff...

You’re right, it is.

I’ll retract, at the this stage, the superfluous s whilst waiting for whatever point you’re trying to make
You're the one who made the point, I'm asking you the back up said point... again very, very basic stuff.

Well Gavin Quinn told me McGrath is the first choice scrum half so Leinster rested at least both half backs. I’ll bow to his knowledge
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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:29 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:I haven’t heard about any others, nor have I bothered to check. What point were you making?
You said they can afford to rest "players" for the final. I'm asking which players were rested, this is very basic stuff...

You’re right, it is.

I’ll retract, at the this stage, the superfluous s whilst waiting for whatever point you’re trying to make
You're the one who made the point, I'm asking you the back up said point... again very, very basic stuff.

Well Gavin Quinn told me McGrath is the first choice scrum half so Leinster rested at least both half backs. I’ll bow to his knowledge
Who? Now we are really clutching at straws...

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Post by PhilBB on Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:43 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:I haven’t heard about any others, nor have I bothered to check. What point were you making?
You said they can afford to rest "players" for the final. I'm asking which players were rested, this is very basic stuff...

You’re right, it is.

I’ll retract, at the this stage, the superfluous s whilst waiting for whatever point you’re trying to make
You're the one who made the point, I'm asking you the back up said point... again very, very basic stuff.

Well Gavin Quinn told me McGrath is the first choice scrum half so Leinster rested at least both half backs. I’ll bow to his knowledge
Who? Now we are really clutching at straws...

You’re unaware of the journalist for the Irish Mirror? Ok. Maybe you’ve heard of Cian Tracey? He wrote the same thing

Is Tracey of the Independent a ‘straw’?
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Post by PhilBB on Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:28 pm

Hmmm, I guess he’s not a straw and the point of “players” plural remains
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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:25 pm

PhilBB wrote:Hmmm, I guess he’s not a straw and the point of “players” plural remains
Both players came on after 59 mins, how were they rested? Do journalists do all the thinking for you or are you unable to form opinions yourself?

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Post by profitius on Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:09 pm

Exeter and Saracens played their second string sides against each other.
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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:19 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Hmmm, I guess he’s not a straw and the point of “players” plural remains
Both players came on after 59 mins, how were they rested? Do journalists do all the thinking for you or are you unable to form opinions yourself?

They were rested, by your own definition, for 59 minutes.

I've not put much effort into working out Leinster's best XV as I couldn't give a rat's arse about it, hence I rely on the informed opinions of others. Had I put some effort into working out Leinster's best XV, I would have relied on stats and the opinions of those better informed than me. People like Quinn and Treacy. That's how you should form opinions, isn't it? By learning from those with more knowledge than you.

If you don't form your opinions that way, you just spout incorrect nonsense.

Still, players plural rested for the final. A final in a competition one of the major shareholders cares little for. Hopefully the competition has only another year or two left.
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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:20 am

profitius wrote:Exeter and Saracens played their second string sides against each other.

They have an agreement to do that because of the rushed nature to finish their league. The PrO league couldn't even be arsed to finish itself.

So it wouldn't be wise to use a Covid related anomaly to try to prove a point.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:21 am

Check out Exeters team for 2019 final. Not what would be considered full strength but actually a reflection that the best teams have the best squads.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:22 am

PhilBB wrote:
profitius wrote:Exeter and Saracens played their second string sides against each other.

They have an agreement to do that because of the rushed nature to finish their league. The PrO league couldn't even be arsed to finish itself.

So it wouldn't be wise to use a Covid related anomaly to try to prove a point.

Nowt really to do with yesterdays selection. The rules limiting use were there due to the midweek games which were deemed necessary to finish the season.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:23 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
profitius wrote:Exeter and Saracens played their second string sides against each other.

They have an agreement to do that because of the rushed nature to finish their league. The PrO league couldn't even be arsed to finish itself.

So it wouldn't be wise to use a Covid related anomaly to try to prove a point.

Nowt really to do with yesterdays selection. The rules limiting use were there due to the midweek games which were deemed necessary to finish the season.

Eh? You've just confirmed my point.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:25 am

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
profitius wrote:Exeter and Saracens played their second string sides against each other.

They have an agreement to do that because of the rushed nature to finish their league. The PrO league couldn't even be arsed to finish itself.

So it wouldn't be wise to use a Covid related anomaly to try to prove a point.

Nowt really to do with yesterdays selection. The rules limiting use were there due to the midweek games which were deemed necessary to finish the season.

Eh? You've just confirmed my point.

The rules were there for midweek games. They've finished and there was no limit on either side picking their perceived best line up yesterday.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:34 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
profitius wrote:Exeter and Saracens played their second string sides against each other.

They have an agreement to do that because of the rushed nature to finish their league. The PrO league couldn't even be arsed to finish itself.

So it wouldn't be wise to use a Covid related anomaly to try to prove a point.

Nowt really to do with yesterdays selection. The rules limiting use were there due to the midweek games which were deemed necessary to finish the season.

Eh? You've just confirmed my point.

The rules were there for midweek games. They've finished and there was no limit on either side picking their perceived best line up yesterday.

Oh, ok. Do you have a link for that, please?

I've only got this:

No player will play more than 180 minutes if selected in a matchday 23 on three occasions in a week;
No player will start all three games in a week;
No player will be selected in more than six matches in the seven games between August 14 and September 13;
A player’s training load will be managed if they are selected in three matchday squads in any given seven-day period.

But none of that makes a specific mention to the difference between midweek and weekend line ups.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:06 am

Mid week games have stopped now. Given both sides domestic league is sorted they both put out seconds ready for the euro comp next week.

Important that the final in 2019 though exeter demonstrated their squad strength and didnt pick what most would assume to be their ' strongest lineup'.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:18 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Mid week games have stopped now. Given both sides domestic league is sorted they both put out seconds ready for the euro comp next week.

Important that the final in 2019 though exeter demonstrated their squad strength and didnt pick what most would assume to be their ' strongest lineup'.

Right.

So "The rules were there for midweek games" was something that you just made up.

I see.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:24 am

Nope. They were there as midweek games which were deemed necessary to finish the season quickly enough to minimise disruption to the new season. The thought hit them that they needed to limit clubs playing players too much and so brought in the rules about mins played etc. The midweek games have now ended and thus that no longer applies. It's been good overall. Led to some spankings with 2nd strings but has helped keep players fresh and allowed a fair few youngsters to integrate into squads. This isnt quitr a case like the 2019 final.

The teams yesterday owed much to saracens being relegated already and exeter guaranteed a spot in the knock outs at the end of the season. They have more important games next week.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nope. They were there as midweek games which were deemed necessary to finish the season quickly enough to minimise disruption to the new season. The thought hit them that they needed to limit clubs playing players too much and so brought in the rules about mins played etc. The midweek games have now ended and thus that no longer applies. It's been good overall. Led to some spankings with 2nd strings but has helped keep players fresh and allowed a fair few youngsters to integrate into squads. This isnt quitr a case like the 2019 final.

The teams yesterday owed much to saracens being relegated already and exeter guaranteed a spot in the knock outs at the end of the season. They have more important games next week.

By "Nope" you mean "yes, I made that up", as I posted the regulations and there was no differential between midweek and weekend games.

Of course, if you have the regulations that state a difference between midweek and weekend games then I'd be delighted to learn from them.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:56 am

The vagaries of the english language. The teams put out yesterday were not forced by the league. You know this hence trying to lead somewhere else.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:09 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:The vagaries of the english language. The teams put out yesterday were not forced by the league. You know this hence trying to lead somewhere else.

They could have been "forced by the league" (the league being the clubs themselves, of course) had players already played enough minutes or started sufficient games.

Not the vagaries of the English language and I'd hope not a deliberate attempt to align two vastly different scenarios in order to justify one of them.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:19 pm

nah. you're trying to sidestep the point. The teams put out were due to the Euro games next weekend. 2019 final team from Exeter was due to squad depth.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:22 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:nah. you're trying to sidestep the point. The teams put out were due to the Euro games next weekend. 2019 final team from Exeter was due to squad depth.

Not all English clubs have Euro games next week, but all abided by their own regulations. And none of the English clubs played a final last weekend. So that's a woefully poor attempt at aligning the two instances. Desperate, in fact.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:25 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Hmmm, I guess he’s not a straw and the point of “players” plural remains
Both players came on after 59 mins, how were they rested? Do journalists do all the thinking for you or are you unable to form opinions yourself?

They were rested, by your own definition, for 59 minutes.

I've not put much effort into working out Leinster's best XV as I couldn't give a rat's arse about it, hence I rely on the informed opinions of others. Had I put some effort into working out Leinster's best XV, I would have relied on stats and the opinions of those better informed than me. People like Quinn and Treacy. That's how you should form opinions, isn't it? By learning from those with more knowledge than you.

If you don't form your opinions that way, you just spout incorrect nonsense.

Still, players plural rested for the final. A final in a competition one of the major shareholders cares little for. Hopefully the competition has only another year or two left.

The competition is doing surprisingly well considering one major shareholder cares little for it. Scottish sides are improving all the time and both Glasgow and Edinburgh have had periods at the top. The Irish provinces are consistently at the business end of playoffs and in the hunt towards the end of the season. Italy continue to be underperforming (but youth performances in 6N would be promising some improvements within the next 3-4 seasons). Wales (Scarlets aside) haven't been good enough. Continue to look east to join the PRL. Could they get straight into Jeff? Probably into championship at best. Inside the same 12 months the PRL ringfence the premiership and freezes them out. Leaves 2 scots, 4 irish, 2 italian and 6 SA to form a Pro14 with no major shareholder hanging around caring little. Only a few seasons away.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:27 pm

Exeter's Semi-Final team (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48353008):
Exeter: Nowell; Cuthbert, Slade, Devoto, O'Flaherty; J Simmonds, White; Moon, Yeandle (capt), Williams, Dennis, Hill, Ewers, Armand, Kvesic

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Hepburn, Francis, Skinner, S Simmonds, Maunder, Steenson, Hill

Exeter's Final team (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48438232):
Exeter: Nowell; Cuthbert, Slade, Devoto, O'Flaherty; J. Simmonds, White; Moon, Yeandle (capt), Williams, Dennis, Hill, Ewers, Armand, Kvesic.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Hepburn, Francis, Skinner, S. Simmonds, Maunder, Steenson, Hill.


Now I'm rubbish at playing "spot the difference" so please can somebody highlight to me the changes Exeter made from their semi-final team for the final. Thanks.
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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:29 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

The competition is doing surprisingly well considering one major shareholder cares little for it.  Scottish sides are improving all the time and both Glasgow and Edinburgh have had periods at the top. The Irish provinces are consistently at the business end of playoffs and in the hunt towards the end of the season. Italy continue to be underperforming (but youth performances in 6N would be promising some improvements within the next 3-4 seasons). Wales (Scarlets aside) haven't been good enough. Continue to look east to join the PRL. Could they get straight into Jeff? Probably into championship at best. Inside the same 12 months the PRL  ringfence the premiership and freezes them out. Leaves 2 scots, 4 irish, 2 italian and 6 SA to form a Pro14 with no major shareholder hanging around caring little.  Only a few seasons away.

That'd be good.

p.s. CVC control the English set up with regards to competitions, not PRL. Other than that, your level of fabrication was excellent. The PrO'14 "is doing surprisingly well" was a beauty.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:34 pm

PhilBB wrote:Exeter's Semi-Final team (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48353008):
Exeter: Nowell; Cuthbert, Slade, Devoto, O'Flaherty; J Simmonds, White; Moon, Yeandle (capt), Williams, Dennis, Hill, Ewers, Armand, Kvesic

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Hepburn, Francis, Skinner, S Simmonds, Maunder, Steenson, Hill

Exeter's Final team (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48438232):
Exeter: Nowell; Cuthbert, Slade, Devoto, O'Flaherty; J. Simmonds, White; Moon, Yeandle (capt), Williams, Dennis, Hill, Ewers, Armand, Kvesic.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Hepburn, Francis, Skinner, S. Simmonds, Maunder, Steenson, Hill.


Now I'm rubbish at playing "spot the difference" so please can somebody highlight to me the changes Exeter made from their semi-final team for the final. Thanks.

The starting lineup considered strongest would include LCD, Simmonds and Steenson.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:36 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:nah. you're trying to sidestep the point. The teams put out were due to the Euro games next weekend. 2019 final team from Exeter was due to squad depth.

Not all English clubs have Euro games next week, but all abided by their own regulations. And none of the English clubs played a final last weekend. So that's a woefully poor attempt at aligning the two instances. Desperate, in fact.

Just trying to correct you regarding your point on why the teams were as they were yesterday. You know you were wrong, be a big person.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:24 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Exeter's Semi-Final team (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48353008):
Exeter: Nowell; Cuthbert, Slade, Devoto, O'Flaherty; J Simmonds, White; Moon, Yeandle (capt), Williams, Dennis, Hill, Ewers, Armand, Kvesic

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Hepburn, Francis, Skinner, S Simmonds, Maunder, Steenson, Hill

Exeter's Final team (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48438232):
Exeter: Nowell; Cuthbert, Slade, Devoto, O'Flaherty; J. Simmonds, White; Moon, Yeandle (capt), Williams, Dennis, Hill, Ewers, Armand, Kvesic.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Hepburn, Francis, Skinner, S. Simmonds, Maunder, Steenson, Hill.


Now I'm rubbish at playing "spot the difference" so please can somebody highlight to me the changes Exeter made from their semi-final team for the final. Thanks.

The starting lineup considered strongest would include LCD, Simmonds and Steenson.


Not considered by Rob Baxter, clearly.
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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:25 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:nah. you're trying to sidestep the point. The teams put out were due to the Euro games next weekend. 2019 final team from Exeter was due to squad depth.

Not all English clubs have Euro games next week, but all abided by their own regulations. And none of the English clubs played a final last weekend. So that's a woefully poor attempt at aligning the two instances. Desperate, in fact.

Just trying to correct you regarding your point on why the teams were as they were yesterday. You know you were wrong, be a big person.

Erm, so you think I was wrong yet you claimed that some regulation involved "midweek games" that was proven to not exist.

Okie dokie. We're now at the point where you write blatant lies in order to save face. I think that's the natural end to the conversation.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:32 pm

It tends to be when you're wrong. You move the conversation onto a new thread, dont engage then claim victory. Exeter and Saracens rested players yesterday as they have bigger games next week. Your bluster does not change that. There was nothing stopping Saracens from playing the likes of Goode and Barritt from the off.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:41 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:It tends to be when you're wrong. You move the conversation onto a new thread, dont engage then claim victory. Exeter and Saracens rested players yesterday as they have bigger games next week. Your bluster does not change that. There was nothing stopping Saracens from playing the likes of Goode and Barritt from the off.

What new thread?

You mentioned something about a midweek regulation so I disproved you.
You mentioned some stuff about Exeter so I disproved you.

Goode and Barritt had started the two previous games for Saracens, on August 31st and September 5th. They are also an outlier because, as explained, of Covid.

And, as explained, you trying to align the situation in England with the premier team of one of the major shareholders of the PrO'14 resting players for its final is nothing short of desperate, for the reasons given.

And that is that.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:56 pm

PhilBB wrote:
profitius wrote:Exeter and Saracens played their second string sides against each other.

They have an agreement to do that because of the rushed nature to finish their league. The PrO league couldn't even be arsed to finish itself.

So it wouldn't be wise to use a Covid related anomaly to try to prove a point.

You said this above. I'm.pointing out that the teams picked yesterday were not enforced by the agreement or rulings re playing time. They were simply to ensure that players were fully fit and rested for next weeks more important games. If saracens had wanted they could have picked a fully first choice team bar Mr Farrell. They weren't limited. Saracens and exeter in particular in the league tend to rotate anyway as they have the best squads.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:01 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
profitius wrote:Exeter and Saracens played their second string sides against each other.

They have an agreement to do that because of the rushed nature to finish their league. The PrO league couldn't even be arsed to finish itself.

So it wouldn't be wise to use a Covid related anomaly to try to prove a point.

You said this above. I'm.pointing out that the teams picked yesterday were not enforced by the agreement or rulings re playing time. They were simply to ensure that players were fully fit and rested for next weeks more important games. If saracens had wanted they could have picked a fully first choice team bar Mr Farrell. They weren't limited. Saracens and exeter in particular in the league tend to rotate anyway as they have the best squads.

Erm, they were enforced by the agreement because of the previous run of games.

Again, you're trying to use Saracens (an outlier) to compare it to a norm.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:05 pm

I'm sure as Exeter and Saracens were both secure in the knowledge of what awaits them in the league they will have set things up the best they could for europe. Looking at Saracens last game prior to yesterday certainly indicates they could have started at full strength there and next weekend. They were never going to though as they're setting their sights in europe. It's not really a big deal. They and Exeter rotate as the 'big' teams do.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:13 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm sure as Exeter and Saracens were both secure in the knowledge of what awaits them in the league they will have set things up the best they could for europe. Looking at Saracens last game prior to yesterday certainly indicates they could have started at full strength there and next weekend. They were never going to though as they're setting their sights in europe. It's not really a big deal. They and Exeter rotate as the 'big' teams do.

Well, as proven above, Exeter don't rotate between semi final and final.

Still, if that's the straw you want to clutch to excuse the IRFU's premier team from treating the IRFU owned competition in the manner they did, so be it.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:20 pm

And they didnt play their strongest team. Notice Leinster got a kicking for that in some quarters. I dont think that's it's that big a deal as.youre making it. The point stands that 2 of England's best teams chose to rest players by choice ahead of next week. I understand that you think that's a big deal in the pro 14 but its something that happens everywhere especially when you have a good squad. Hopefully the English teams will take this forward and rest more players through choice as saracens did yesterday as it'll help development and be better for the players longer term.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:24 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And they didnt play their strongest team. Notice Leinster got a kicking for that in some quarters. I dont think that's it's that big a deal as.youre making it. The point stands that 2 of England's best teams chose to rest players by choice ahead of next week. I understand that you think that's a big deal in the pro 14 but its something that happens everywhere especially when you have a good squad. Hopefully the English teams will take this forward and rest more players through choice as saracens did yesterday as it'll help development and be better for the players longer term.

They played their strongest team according to Baxter.

And you're still trying to conflate, at best, a league game with a league final. That's hugely poor from you and God knows why you are going to such lengths to excuse it.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:27 pm

That's fine. Leinster played their strongest team too. Fully appreciate it's a squad game.

I'm merely pointing out that the teams yesterday weren't driven by the minutes played rule but an eye on next week. Finals dont matter as you said yourself above, if the head coach picks the team that's the team he thinks gives him the best chance of victory.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:28 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:That's fine. Leinster played their strongest team too. Fully appreciate it's a squad game.

I'm merely pointing out that the teams yesterday weren't driven by the minutes played rule but an eye on next week. Finals dont matter as you said yourself above, if the head coach picks the team that's the team he thinks gives him the best chance of victory.

Except Leinster didn't play their strongest team

And so around and around we go with this weak conflation.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:32 pm

And exeter didnt play their strongest team.....except you've just told me they did because that's the team Baxter chose.

And Saracens didnt play their strongest team yesterday. Not because they were forced to but because they have an eye on next week. Not that difficult to accept.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:36 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And exeter didnt play their strongest team.....except you've just told me they did because that's the team Baxter chose.

And Saracens didnt play their strongest team yesterday. Not because they were forced to but because they have an eye on next week. Not that difficult to accept.

Baxter's teams plural, for games they prioritised.

Cullen, meanwhile, explained to the media his decision to 'rest' Sexton.

Clearly the two are as alike as a dead league game and a league final, yet you do love to try to create a false equivalence.

If you want to die on your false equivalence hill, you knock yourself bandy.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:38 pm

So to go back to the first point you made on this you would now accept that the teams yesterday were not down to rules of the league but by choice? Leinster won by the way. Great team.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:39 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So to go back to the first point you made on this you would now accept that the teams yesterday were not down to rules of the league but by choice? Leinster won by the way. Great team.

Which teams? All of them? No.

I'll return to the first point I made which was that Leinster rested players and, by doing so, devalued the competition.

I'll happily accept, of course, that the competition can't really be further devalued so it doesn't matter at all.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:44 pm

No back to your point on exeter and saracens.

They rested players for Europe next week. So the prem is devalued as well. If you're ignoring that now as it's not a final then theres the 2019 final where Exeter didnt play their first team.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:46 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:No back to your point on exeter and saracens.

They rested players for Europe next week. So the prem is devalued as well. If you're ignoring that now as it's not a final then theres the 2019 final where Exeter didnt play their first team.

We've already ruined your attempted logic with your false equivalents. It's touching that you want to play the Black Knight role to be contrary but it doesn't hide the effort.

It's an interesting hill that you chose to die on, choosing deliberate contrariness over logic as a method, but there you go. Each to their own.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:49 pm

You're not addressing the points. If its teams not playing their first team in the final then look to last year for Exeter.
If its teams not playing their first team in the league and the example.you commented on was the Exeter and saracens game this weekend then we see that in england too.
As with the other thread you seem to idolise the english league and I dont know why. Anti irish thing and somehow think the same thing wont happen if you could buddy up with the english?

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Post by PhilBB on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:51 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're not addressing the points. If its teams not playing their first team in the final then look to last year for Exeter.
If its teams not playing their first team in the league and the example.you commented on was the Exeter and saracens game this weekend then we see that in england too.
As with the other thread you seem to idolise the english league and I dont know why. Anti irish thing and somehow think the same thing wont happen if you could buddy up with the english?

I've addressed the Exeter points by posting the actual team sheets.

I've addressed your false equivalence.

If you'd like a grown up conversation on why Welsh clubs should be playing English rather than Italian, Scottish, South African and Irish then I'm up for that. We can start, please, with you opening up a new browser page and finding a map of the UK.
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