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Japan 2019 - Pool A Ireland Japan Russia Samoa Scotland

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 09 Sep 2019, 12:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

TeamPlayedWonDrawnLostTriesPFPA+/-BPPoints
Japan330098741+46214
Ireland3201117422+52311
Scotland320113982771210
Samoa310275381-2815
Russia3003119125-10600


Japan 30-10 Russia              
Ireland 27-3 Scotland  
Russia 9-34 Samoa                        
Japan 19-12 Ireland                          
Scotland 34-0 Samoa
Ireland 35-0 Russia
Japan 38-19 Samoa
Scotland 61-0 Russia
 

                                       
                     
12 October 2019         Ireland v Samoa                         Fukuoka Hakatanomori Stadium, Fukuoka
13 October 2019         Japan v Scotland                         International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama


Two games left. If Ireland get a TBP win on Saturday they qualify for the quarter finals irrespective of the result on Sunday. Any other result and they need to wait and see what happens between Japan and Scotland.
Any win for Japan and they will top the group (in fact a draw or losing with two bonus points will guarantee the same)
Most interesting scenario is if Ireland win without a bonus point - opening up a chance for Scotland to top the group if all 3 teams end up on 15pts and Scotland are able to keep their points difference ahead of Ireland.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:29 am; edited 5 times in total

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Post by Guest Sat 28 Sep 2019, 3:44 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
miaow wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:

A tier one team shouldn't get rewarded for losing to a tier 2 team.

Bonus points for wokeness? The less privilege you have, the more points you get?
Japan are a tier 2 team in name only. They are better even now than Italy could ever could ever wish to be. Won't be long before they are invited to the rugby championship.

Wouldn't be surprised, maybe after 2023? Could be detrimental to their growth if they're getting hammered every year - not sure Argentina are growing being on the end of a few hammerings in the RC each year. Think there's a happy medium and, if you look at Italy as well, there's not much to be gained mentally and skillswise from constantly being on the defensive, getting used to a losing mentality, and having a gameplan based on keeping the scoreline competitive. Let them grow, and let's see what happens with the global season. More AI/Summer tour games first. Better they keep playing Samoa/Fiji/Tonga more often than NZ/Boks/Oz at the moment.

But they're on the fringes and are surely on par with Italy now.

The fact they have the money to create a pro league in a short space of time makes the potential for growth in the game vast. It will be THE hub for Asia and the Pacific, possibly a partnership with the US at some stage as well, with more Australiasians helping the standards up there as well.

As long as Japan keep attracting talented coaches like Eddie and Joseph to do a top-down, all-encompassing role, the national team looks like it will also keep ticking over nicely. Joseph's approach is really interesting and well looking in to for those who are interested. Really built and grown on what EJ did.

They're not the most genetically blessed to play rugby, yet even the 'indigenuous' Japanese fronted up massively. Kept stopping Ireland behind the gainline, kept smashing them in the tackle, and had roughly parity in the scrums. Dealt with the maul decently enough as well. It's unfair to put it down to conditions, although it clearly helped. They just beat them after the first quarter, as they kept the ball moving, and never allowed Ireland to slow it down for too long. Massive credit to them to keep going, keep playing, even when they were leadng. They had the other string in their bow that Ireland didn't - playing out wide, offloads sticking, lovely attaking lines - and that's something we've not seen too much of outside Scotland, and sometimes England and Wales when they really have to.

Easily one of the best attacking performances we've seen so far. Yeah, Fiji were more bombastic, but faded badly. This was an 85 minute gameplan and it worked. Great stuff, love to see rugby played that way. Similar to Uruguay in that regard. Just a holistic approach to rugby rather than a controlled and spoiling approach.

If anything - and sorry to Irish fans who are obviously smarting - rugby won today.

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Post by Guest Sat 28 Sep 2019, 3:47 pm

Poorfour wrote:I wouldn't be so sure of Scotland beating Japan. For one thing, Japan have an ultra-disciplined playing style that is unlikely to afford Scotland the broken play they like to exploit. For another, Scotland were woeful against Ireland, and Japan weren't. For a third, Scotland have already lost nearly 20% of their squad to injury. For a fourth, Japan have home advantage and will have a stadium full of fans who will have been targeting this game for 4 years.

But the big one for me is that when they met in the last RWC, Japan were coming off a 4 day turnaround from their epic match against South Africa.

This time, they have a full 8 days to prepare before the game. Scotland play Russia on 9th October and have to face Japan on 13th.

Barring a miraculous change in form, Scotland will go in as underdogs.

Wow, when you put it like that, it's backs against the walls stuff for Scotland now. All about avoiding banana skins just to have 3 days to prepare for a game than could be the last for many people - including Gregor - if they lose.

I'd make them marginal favourites still based on the two sides, but that 4 day turnround probably sways it in Japan's favour.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 28 Sep 2019, 3:50 pm

ebop wrote:Nailed it miaow
Why did you edit your laughing stock comment?

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Post by ebop Sat 28 Sep 2019, 3:52 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
ebop wrote:Nailed it miaow
Why did you edit your laughing stock comment?
The one where I said Ireland were a laughing stock?
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Post by lostinwales Sat 28 Sep 2019, 4:06 pm

ebop wrote:Losing to Japan though Guns. Is that worse than Conan? Who is Conan?

Rare footage of an Irish team talk featuring Conan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo9buo9Mtos

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Post by Pie Sat 28 Sep 2019, 5:42 pm

Japan performing the way you would expect the hosts to perform. NZ posters are nervous because they know Ireland will have them in the 1/4

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Post by Taylorman Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:06 pm

Pie wrote:Japan performing the way you would expect the hosts to perform. NZ posters are nervous because they know Ireland will have them in the 1/4

Not nervous one bit chump. Bring it on I say. Been saying all year reality will hit Ireland at this tournament to much disagreement. And it has. I said the AI type wins at home are a false confidence and that at World Cup time other non 6N sides will be stronger. I also said that their game plan was limited, and they’d have trouble winning when down on the scoreboard.

I said they’d better be strong in pool play otherwise that time between a poor pool result and waiting for that quarter will play on their confidence because of both the media, and social media. Well, start reading the papers.

Ireland are eight straight exiting. You really think this time they’re up against the defending champs they’re going to have sufficient confidence after this? They haven’t even got anyone reasonable left to play to build that confidence.

It’s not a good day for Irish fans, I realise that. But this has been writing on the wall that many have ignored for a long time.

Know your audience miaow told me.

Know your rugby is more relevant I’d say.

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Post by The Great Aukster Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:22 pm

Pie wrote:Japan performing the way you would expect the hosts to perform. NZ posters are nervous because they know Ireland will have them in the 1/4
No it's just ebop who's nervous. He's paying a compliment to Ireland really, but it shows little faith in his own team.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:27 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
Pie wrote:Japan performing the way you would expect the hosts to perform. NZ posters are nervous because they know Ireland will have them in the 1/4
No it's just ebop who's nervous. He's paying a compliment to Ireland really, but it shows little faith in his own team.

From what we’ve seen so far from all sides, I’m more confident than ever. Ebops probably similar Im guessing. Our quarter is one of a side that’s already been thrashed, one that’s just lost to Japan, or a Japan side that has zero advantage as an under dog any longer, courtesy of Ireland. Japan are now marked vs anyone they play from here.

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Post by alanmackie6 Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:30 pm

Why are people surprised by this result? Doh ,Japan should have reached the QFs in2015,the
current Pacific Ocean Champions.Played Super Rugby all be it with little success against
some of the best sides in the World.At home massive crowd support.good coaching team
Sides beating Samoa by cricket scores?thats a banana skin waiting to happen.Ireland and
Japan to progress? Shocked ?Wales/OZ match is big one for now .bring it on !!!! Hug

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:35 pm

Again none of the Japanese players played super rugby this year

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Post by Old Man Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:47 pm

Both Ireland and South Africa has been shown up to be one trick ponies.

They both need to have better attacking exploits.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:53 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Again none of the Japanese players played super rugby this year

Yes that surprises me even more, don’t follow either side which means the players are coming of the back of the Japanese comp? Which is in its off season I guess? Familiarity and home value is highest then. Head coach SUNWOLVES is co coach here and he’s not thought any are good enough for the Japan side. Strange, and no wonder the sides being pulled.

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Post by Guest Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:01 pm

Jamie Joseph has run Japan like a club side for the last 12 months and the awareness and reading of each others' game showed today. That's the key difference. Super Rugby is overrated.

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Post by Guest Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:09 pm



Good video on what Joseph's done. Cheeky? Yes. Unfair? Well, maybe. But definitely one of the perks of being Japanese coach is the ability to do what he did, and it's clearly paid off so far.

Starts at 5:09.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:10 pm

10 players from today’s squad are from the SUNWOLVES so whoever spouted that doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

And from today, if we are talking about overated, Ireland surely take that cake.

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Post by Guest Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:18 pm

Also, Japan missed 6 points from penalties that were relatively kickable, no? One in front that dragged wide, one just inside halfway that fell short.

Add in the intercept try that wasn't, and that's 13 points Japan missed out on.

Rough if you're Irish.

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Post by Guest Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:18 pm

Taylorman wrote:10 players from today’s squad are from the SUNWOLVES so whoever spouted that doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

And from today, if we are talking about overated,  Ireland surely take that cake.

Do your homework. Or would that shatter the narrative?

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Post by westisbest Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:38 pm

It was a bad result of course, but we are still very much in this World Cup. Would have been a lot worse if that result had meant we were out.
We can still make the quarters, we can still win the group.

NZ or the boks in the quarters certainly won’t be easy.
We have beaten both and know we can beat them again.

This result could be the kick up the a55 we need.

Disappointing result, but our World Cup is still very much alive.

We lick our wounds and get on with it.

Well done to japan today though.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:43 pm

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:10 players from today’s squad are from the SUNWOLVES so whoever spouted that doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

And from today, if we are talking about overated,  Ireland surely take that cake.

Do your homework. Or would that shatter the narrative?

Taylorman getting it wrong as usual

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Post by Taylorman Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:49 pm

‘This result could be the kick up the a55 we need.’

That’s the one huge advantage from the loss. It’ll harden Ireland as a squad like they haven’t been to date. Media and Social media will kill them metaphorically and if they’re a side that finds resolve from such a loss...history will tell you that...then they have all the weapons they need going forward.

no one wants to play the All Blacks after they’ve just lost, because that’s when they’re strongest. Trouble is World Cup knockouts don’t cater for that scenario so a pool loss is next best.

Look at France in 2011 and England in 07.

Question is...is Ireland a fight or flight side in that scenario? Only the past will answer that now. The seeds for that will be sown.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:51 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:10 players from today’s squad are from the SUNWOLVES so whoever spouted that doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

And from today, if we are talking about overated,  Ireland surely take that cake.

Do your homework. Or would that shatter the narrative?

Taylorman getting it wrong as usual

No, it was rugby fan, and he lives in Japan! I assumed there were shared players, and he said none played Sunwolves this year which I found strange as I knew leitch at least was in both.

Read properly guns, told you I was surprised at none...because it was incorrect t.

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Post by The Great Aukster Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:15 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:10 players from today’s squad are from the SUNWOLVES so whoever spouted that doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
And from today, if we are talking about overated,  Ireland surely take that cake.

Do your homework. Or would that shatter the narrative?

Taylorman getting it wrong as usual
Careful Guns - MM has said he doesn't like the term 'as usual' being used when referring to TM.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:23 pm

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:10 players from today’s squad are from the SUNWOLVES so whoever spouted that doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

And from today, if we are talking about overated,  Ireland surely take that cake.

Do your homework. Or would that shatter the narrative?

Geez talk about getting all uppity. I assumed, correctly, that the Japanese squad had many Sunwolves in the side. Rugby fan made a statement that ‘no players from the Sunwolves played for Japan’.

So I checked. Ten are from today’s 23. Now I haven’t checked if they actually did play but it would be odd if ten were named in both 2019 squads and none played at all in SR.

So I assume you will now tootle off onto rugby fan and dispatch your homework to him?

Or, does that not fit your narrative?

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:31 pm

Michael Leitch last played for Sun wolves on 13 July 2018. So he will not have contributed this season. 

Rugby Fans point I think was that most of the Internationals were withdrawn from much of the SR season.

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Post by Guest Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:37 pm

Far too much assuming, T. You know what they say...when you assume, you make an a55 out of u...and....errrr...u.

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:47 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Michael Leitch last played for Sun wolves on 13 July 2018. So he will not have contributed this season. 

Rugby Fans point I think was that most of the Internationals were withdrawn from much of the SR season.

Mafi, Valu, Tanaka, Tamura, Matsuda & Lafaele made just 1 start. Horie 2 starts.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:47 pm

miaow wrote:Far too much assuming, T. You know what they say...when you assume, you make an a55 out of u...and....errrr...u.

Geez, you are 6. Didn’t realise. Past beddy bize yet?


That is enough childish behaviour. Can you both please step back from the sandlot. 


Last edited by LondonTiger on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Modding)

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Post by Taylorman Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:51 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Michael Leitch last played for Sun wolves on 13 July 2018. So he will not have contributed this season. 

Rugby Fans point I think was that most of the Internationals were withdrawn from much of the SR season.

Mafi, Valu, Tanaka, Tamura, Matsuda & Lafaele made just 1 start. Horie 2 starts.

Yeah explains the poor Sunwolves showing if hey don’t have access to their test players. Interesting though as Argie played practically all their squad, being NH, Japan will have played club over our summer?

If so, No wonder they’ve pulled the Wolves, their players would either be second stringers or more imports. They have their last year next year. Wonder if the jap side will be involved with no World Cup.

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Post by lostinwales Sat 28 Sep 2019, 11:37 pm

westisbest wrote:...
This result could be the kick up the a55 we need.
......

It is not exactly the first. How many do you need?

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Post by Taylorman Sun 29 Sep 2019, 12:15 am

lostinwales wrote:
westisbest wrote:...
This result could be the kick up the a55 we need.
......

It is not exactly the first. How many do you need?

Unfortunately that’s a very good point. Question is do they have what it takes to find the kind of resolve it will need to get over it? Some do, some don’t.

Crucial.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 29 Sep 2019, 1:52 am

LondonTiger wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Michael Leitch last played for Sun wolves on 13 July 2018. So he will not have contributed this season. 

Rugby Fans point I think was that most of the Internationals were withdrawn from much of the SR season.

Mafi, Valu, Tanaka, Tamura, Matsuda & Lafaele made just 1 start. Horie 2 starts.

Squidge pointed this out in his video on Japan. Around the 5:10 seconds mark.



However, the Sunwolves have never been a Japanese Jaguares. Right from the start, the franchise has rarely fielded Japanese internationals. Michael Leitch has played more Super Rugby with the Chiefs than the Sunwolves. There are a lot of reasons for that, to do with the power of Japanese clubs, and the difficulty of mixing a northern hemisphere season with a southern hemisphere schedule.

It may look like these international players dropped out of the Sun Wolves this season but it's actually the reverse. Joseph got them signed up to the Sun Wolves so he could control their season. Most of these players were not on the Sun Wolves roster at all in previous seasons.

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Post by Taylorman Sun 29 Sep 2019, 2:58 am

Yeah that’s really weird. As the only SR franchise in a tier one based comp you’re going to struggle without access to the best home players. A full squad of seconds plus Rene ranger type ring ins isn’t going to get the support. Debacle, no wonder they’re going.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 29 Sep 2019, 3:40 am

Onwards and upwards, fair play Japan. Bring it on Russia, on my way to Kobe now.

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 29 Sep 2019, 6:23 am

Don't forget to bow low to show the Japanese 'who's boss' and enjoy the Russia match.
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Post by westisbest Sun 29 Sep 2019, 6:58 am

lostinwales wrote:
westisbest wrote:...
This result could be the kick up the a55 we need.
......

It is not exactly the first. How many do you need?

I’m talking about this World Cup. Here and now. Never mind the past.

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Post by eirebilly Sun 29 Sep 2019, 7:02 am

Agree that it should be the kick up the arsh that Ireland need but also agree that Ireland have had many of these supposed kicks up the arsh only to follow up with a good win before returning to the same old.

Ireland have always been a team, regardless of who is coaching, that are capable of 'one off' big games and wins. Consistency has always been their problem, especially when it comes to the RWC. Sure they can pull off a good 6N every now and then but usually 1 or 2 games in those campaign are ones that could very easily have been lost as well.

I would say that Schmidt has a very difficult job to do to progress in this RWC. He has not been to be able to inform the team to change tactics during games if plan A is not working. Too easily his tactics have been found out and exploited and Ireland are completely clueless as a unit as to what to do as they do not seem to have a plan B to fall back on, so drilled as they are in plan A.

Ireland may well get out of the group but the only chance they had to get past the 1/4 finals (slim as that was as well) was to play Sth Africa who are very similar to Ireland in their approach to games. If Ireland come up against NZ, I expect not only a loss but a very big loss.
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Post by bsando Sun 29 Sep 2019, 7:25 am

The thing that struck me yesterday was Ireland's lack of line speed and lack of box kicking. I thought Ireland got sucked into Japan's game and failed to enforce their own style of play. It was a sluggish display with none of the intensity of the previous weeks stellar performance.

Japan did well up front I thought, they were physical and importantly they made lots of good offloads. In my opinion the forwards won it for Japan. They gave the backs an excellent platform to attack from.

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Post by The Great Aukster Sun 29 Sep 2019, 7:54 am

eirebilly wrote:Agree that it should be the kick up the arsh that Ireland need but also agree that Ireland have had many of these supposed kicks up the arsh only to follow up with a good win before returning to the same old.

Ireland have always been a team, regardless of who is coaching, that are capable of 'one off' big games and wins. Consistency has always been their problem, especially when it comes to the RWC. Sure they can pull off a good 6N every now and then but usually 1 or 2 games in those campaign are ones that could very easily have been lost as well.

I would say that Schmidt has a very difficult job to do to progress in this RWC. He has not been to be able to inform the team to change tactics during games if plan A is not working. Too easily his tactics have been found out and exploited and Ireland are completely clueless as a unit as to what to do as they do not seem to have a plan B to fall back on, so drilled as they are in plan A.

Ireland may well get out of the group but the only chance they had to get past the 1/4 finals (slim as that was as well) was to play Sth Africa who are very similar to Ireland in their approach to games. If Ireland come up against NZ, I expect not only a loss but a very big loss.

Except the tactics were working but Ireland couldn't sustain the tempo to match the Japanese. They were visibly cream-crackered so changing tactics wouldn't have worked. Japan realised this and actively sought to keep the ball alive, so that Ireland wouldn't even have lineouts or scrums to recover.

New Zealand won't play with the manic tempo of Japan, neither do they have the power of South Africa so Schmidt may actually prefer to meet them.

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Post by eirebilly Sun 29 Sep 2019, 8:19 am

Aukster, the tactics were working until Japan adjusted and countered the Irish tactics. Ireland were knackered as instead of adjusting the game plan they simply tried to force plan A harder and it was not working as Japan were countering it easily.

Japan were very good but Ireland were again very predictable. Japan adjusted to Irelands tactics, countered them and had Ireland in their pockets for a good 50mins of the game so much so that it appeared that Ireland were sucked into Japans game plan.

I guess, in a way, they were in the end du to Japans counter tactics.

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Post by Guest Sun 29 Sep 2019, 8:35 am

What's overlooked by Irish fans is the fall of the game. Think it's fair to say some Irish players switched off at 12-3. Complacent.

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Post by Exiledinborders Sun 29 Sep 2019, 8:35 am

eirebilly wrote:Aukster, the tactics were working until Japan adjusted and countered the Irish tactics. Ireland were knackered as instead of adjusting the game plan they simply tried to force plan A harder and it was not working as Japan were countering it easily.

Japan were very good but Ireland were again very predictable. Japan adjusted to Irelands tactics, countered them and had Ireland in their pockets for a good 50mins of the game so much so that it appeared that Ireland were sucked into Japans game plan.

I guess, in a way, they were in the end du to Japans counter tactics.

Very good summary.

Ireland are generally excellent at playing their system but are incapable of changing it when required. Without Sexton they even more predictable than normal.


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Post by LondonTiger Sun 29 Sep 2019, 11:32 am

Taylorman wrote:
Pie wrote:Japan performing the way you would expect the hosts to perform. NZ posters are nervous because they know Ireland will have them in the 1/4

Not nervous one bit chump. Bring it on I say. Been saying all year reality will hit Ireland at this tournament to much disagreement. And it has. I said the AI type wins at home are a false confidence and that at World Cup time other non 6N sides will be stronger. I also said that their game plan was limited, and they’d have trouble winning when down on the scoreboard.

I said they’d better be strong in pool play otherwise that time between a poor pool result and waiting for that quarter will play on their confidence because of both the media, and social media. Well, start reading the papers.

Ireland are eight straight exiting. You really think this time they’re up against the defending champs they’re going to have sufficient confidence after this? They haven’t even got anyone reasonable left to play to build that confidence.

It’s not a good day for Irish fans, I realise that. But this has been writing on the wall that many have ignored for a long time.

Know your audience miaow told me.

Know your rugby is more relevant I’d say.

Why ruin a post with 5 letters of name calling. 

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 29 Sep 2019, 12:09 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Aukster, the tactics were working until Japan adjusted and countered the Irish tactics. Ireland were knackered as instead of adjusting the game plan they simply tried to force plan A harder and it was not working as Japan were countering it easily.

Japan were very good but Ireland were again very predictable. Japan adjusted to Irelands tactics, countered them and had Ireland in their pockets for a good 50mins of the game so much so that it appeared that Ireland were sucked into Japans game plan.

I guess, in a way, they were in the end du to Japans counter tactics.

Very good summary.

Ireland are generally excellent at playing their system but are incapable of changing it when required. Without Sexton they even more predictable than normal.

All this talk about game plans, boring rugby etc etc is nonsense. Ireland has shown time and time again since Schmidt has taken over that they can compete and beat the best. However this is the weakest Irish side I've seen in years with aging players and players woefully off form. Our backrow alone despresses me every time I see an Ireland team named and how quickly we have gone from having one of the best in world rugby with seemingly endless depth there to one of the least intimidating back row units in world rugby amazes me.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 29 Sep 2019, 12:13 pm

I still think you have an excellent back row. Stander and VDF would walk into most other teams starting XV surely?
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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 29 Sep 2019, 12:19 pm

tigertattie wrote:I still think you have an excellent back row. Stander and VDF would walk into most other teams starting XV surely?

Probably not Japan or Italy's starting back-row though.

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Post by LondonTiger Sun 29 Sep 2019, 12:35 pm

tigertattie wrote:I still think you have an excellent back row. Stander and VDF would walk into most other teams starting XV surely?

Is that true? Not sure they would get into many if any of the other sides likely to make the 1/4 finals.

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Post by Guest Sun 29 Sep 2019, 12:39 pm

Agree that Ireland's back row is poor relative to other top teams, particularly bck ups, but not the sole issue for them. You can pick at anything and everything and see issues.

One thing I can't help but feel's gone wrong is Schmidt taking on more control.

The team bottled it 4 years ago, and it feels like he's doubled down and tried to micromanage every little part of the game.

He talked in the post match about all the details and things that Jjapan would do - long rucks etc., the way they approach contact.

Yeah, great. Talk. After you've lost.

I feel the main issue is Schmidt doesn't allow nearly enough room for the players to not just play, but also to lead. That's what Sexton and Murray bring - more than their skills, it's the belief to actually boss a game, where no other player seemingly wants to.

Too much of a controlling hand by Schmidt. Too cautious, too much micomanaging. The back row personnel are decent enough.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 29 Sep 2019, 1:39 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
tigertattie wrote:I still think you have an excellent back row. Stander and VDF would walk into most other teams starting XV surely?

Is that true? Not sure they would get into many if any of the other sides likely to make the 1/4 finals.

Hmmm. If you take it team by team then there’s probably someone better such as billy V over stander and Hamish Watson over VDF but I’d say both those Irish guys are in the top 3 or 4 players in that position.

Have we hit the nail on the head here for the Irish? Individually they don’t have the top player or 2nd player in each position but they play well as a collective and on days where they don’t click together that cohesive team isn’t there?
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Post by Guest Sun 29 Sep 2019, 1:59 pm

With all respect to Van der Flier he's probably not in the top 10 number 7s in world rugby.

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