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Japan 2019 - Pool A Ireland Japan Russia Samoa Scotland

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 12:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

TeamPlayedWonDrawnLostTriesPFPA+/-BPPoints
Japan330098741+46214
Ireland3201117422+52311
Scotland320113982771210
Samoa310275381-2815
Russia3003119125-10600


Japan 30-10 Russia              
Ireland 27-3 Scotland  
Russia 9-34 Samoa                        
Japan 19-12 Ireland                          
Scotland 34-0 Samoa
Ireland 35-0 Russia
Japan 38-19 Samoa
Scotland 61-0 Russia
 

                                       
                     
12 October 2019         Ireland v Samoa                         Fukuoka Hakatanomori Stadium, Fukuoka
13 October 2019         Japan v Scotland                         International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama


Two games left. If Ireland get a TBP win on Saturday they qualify for the quarter finals irrespective of the result on Sunday. Any other result and they need to wait and see what happens between Japan and Scotland.
Any win for Japan and they will top the group (in fact a draw or losing with two bonus points will guarantee the same)
Most interesting scenario is if Ireland win without a bonus point - opening up a chance for Scotland to top the group if all 3 teams end up on 15pts and Scotland are able to keep their points difference ahead of Ireland.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:29 am; edited 5 times in total

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Post by Old Man on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 1:59 pm

Ireland will be confident meeting either, their recent record against those two speak volumes

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 2:07 pm

Yeah it doesnt bother me who we face in the quarters anymore

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Post by RDW on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 2:15 pm

It is an interesting question for a Scotland fan though - who would we rather play, a team we've never beaten or one whose entire way of being is exactly what we're weakest at!

Seems crazy to say but some Scotland fans would rather face a NZ team that isn't looking quite as invincible as normal (but still incredibly impressive) than the current SA team.

I'm staying on the fence!

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Post by Ninjarugby on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 2:26 pm

I wouldn't be overly surprised if there was a shock in Group A or B. Since the draw was made I think everybody or most anyway are predicting NZ v Sco & Ire v SA 1/4 finals. I think we might see a NZ v Ire one but not sure who will beat who.
Eddie Jones did everyone in Group A a favor 4 years ago because nobody will take Japan lightly & I think both Schmidt & Townsend won't fall into the trap of being surprised. The draw does favor Japan to a degree but I think Ire/Sco will have too much for them.

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Post by Tramptastic on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 2:28 pm

I want Scotland to play New Zealand in the quarter finals.

We don't do well against overtly physical teams like South Africa and if we are the deemed the new France in terms of "they might joue or they might be awful", what better time to play new zealand than in a world cup quarter final? Laugh

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 3:04 pm

Tramptastic wrote:I want Scotland to play New Zealand in the quarter finals.

We don't do well against overtly physical teams like South Africa and if we are the deemed the new France in terms of "they might joue or they might be awful", what better time to play new zealand than in a world cup quarter final? Laugh

It's not even funny. There is logic there. New Zealand will pretend neither Ireland nor Scotland concern them. They'll be courteous and respectful, to be sure to be sure; but they'll also let it be known that it's a mere speed bump to be crossed in the way to bigger contests.
But Scotland unleasehed in a 'nothing to lose except loss itself' knock out game? If Scotland has found their most exciting off-the-cuff selves, even NZ would have a job containing them.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 3:06 pm

Tramptastic wrote:I want Scotland to play New Zealand in the quarter finals.

We don't do well against overtly physical teams like South Africa and if we are the deemed the new France in terms of "they might joue or they might be awful", what better time to play new zealand than in a world cup quarter final? Laugh

I think you are right there, I see Scotland as having a reasonably good shot all things considered of turning over NZ.

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Post by Tramptastic on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 3:11 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:I want Scotland to play New Zealand in the quarter finals.

We don't do well against overtly physical teams like South Africa and if we are the deemed the new France in terms of "they might joue or they might be awful", what better time to play new zealand than in a world cup quarter final? Laugh

I think you are right there, I see Scotland as having a reasonably good shot all things considered of turning over NZ.

Its a million to 1 shot

Bound to happen

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 5:21 pm

You have a choice, SA and thier bruisers who play a game we hate playing, or NZ, the team we've never beaten.

You cant even base it on the SA vs NZ before hand. If SA win then you face a team full of confidence who would realsitcally be on a winning streak. Or you are facing NZ, a team of talent that is hurting from the SA loss and looking to take that hurt out on someone (Scotland)

Flip it and you have NZ winning and full of vim and SA looking to avenege thier loss.

Personally I think the boys would rather play against NZ. I dont care what anyone says, NZ are still considered the team to beat, we've never beaten them but right now they are beatable and the boys would want to lay the ghost of the meeting at the WC in Murrayfield to rest!
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Post by SecretFly on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 5:49 pm

Are yis not terrified of meeting the number one ranked team in the world??? Shocked

The bloody lack of respect the best sides get these days is appalling. mad

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 6:10 pm

SecretFly wrote:If you start plotting those kind of equations, fate will come and bite you hard on the arse.

I've always believed with WCs that if you're trying to avoid the best for as long as possible, you don't deserve to be there and are not really in contention for th big prize.  You have to be prepared to meet the best when you meet them, because the odds are you'll meet at least three of them to get to a final or to win a final anyway

If you honestly and sincerely think you might win a final, then I don't care which of SA or NZ we meet first.  You're going to meet their kind anyway.

Exactly. You have to play the best side at some point. That’s why we don’t care who we play. Easy for NZ to say though.  Though I think if SA were able to beat NZ I’m not convinced the win between Ireland and Scotland will be seen as critical for either. A farce of a match is a genuine possibility. In fact I think the media will thrash it...not that I think SA will beat NZ though. They look ready for this.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:26 pm

What do you mean by a farce of a match?

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:16 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:What do you mean by a farce of a match?

Well if Scotland do a "Scotland" then a match involving us could become a farce!
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Post by Ninjarugby on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:17 pm

Taylorman wrote:
SecretFly wrote:If you start plotting those kind of equations, fate will come and bite you hard on the arse.

I've always believed with WCs that if you're trying to avoid the best for as long as possible, you don't deserve to be there and are not really in contention for th big prize.  You have to be prepared to meet the best when you meet them, because the odds are you'll meet at least three of them to get to a final or to win a final anyway

If you honestly and sincerely think you might win a final, then I don't care which of SA or NZ we meet first.  You're going to meet their kind anyway.

Exactly. You have to play the best side at some point. That’s why we don’t care who we play. Easy for NZ to say though.  Though I think if SA were able to beat NZ I’m not convinced the win between Ireland and Scotland will be seen as critical for either. A farce of a match is a genuine possibility. In fact I think the media will thrash it...not that I think SA will beat NZ though. They look ready for this.

Taylorman, I don't buy that for a minute. So you, Hansen, & Read don't care whether you play Scotland in the 1/4 final, really?
Are you just saying that or do you really mean it? Schmidt & Ireland have the same danger for NZ as Scotland having a 2/2 record since he took over.
If I was a Kiwi I would definitely prefer to play Scotland in a 1/4. They are a very good side but do they really pose the same threats?
All this talk about what happened in the past is exactly that. I'm hoping it will be a very open world cup with a few surprises.

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Post by Tramptastic on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:59 pm

I suppose realistically if you are wanting to win the cup you have to expect to be able to compete and beat every team that you come up against. So if New Zealand are wanting to win the world cup they'd be expecting, and hoping, to beat Ireland (world no1 ranked side) on the way to being proclaimed world champions just so there are no disclaimers such as "well you won it but you avoided teams X,Y and Z"

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 3:03 pm

Tramptastic wrote:I suppose realistically if you are wanting to win the cup you have to expect to be able to compete and beat every team that you come up against. So if New Zealand are wanting to win the world cup they'd be expecting, and hoping, to beat Ireland (world no1 ranked side) on the way to being proclaimed world champions just so there are no disclaimers such as "well you won it but you avoided teams X,Y and Z"

I doubt they would care. Likewise I doubt SA care that they didnt have to beat anyone ranked above them on their way to winning the 2007 RWC thanks to France knocking out NZ.

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 3:32 pm

You can only beat what is put infront of you.

If Scotland won the W/C but we didnt play NZ coz Irelnd put them out, would this "devalue" the trophy? Absolutely not!

What I will say is that Hansen and NZ must 100% not care who they face in the QF. Do they beleive that Scotland would be an easier game? Most likely! Hansen can't let the team say this or even think it though. If you go into the SA game worrying about the outcome determining who you play next, you lose focus on the current game!!! Worse still is that if you lose the game, you then start having seeeds of doubt in your head that you are about to play Ireland, a team who you've been thinking/saying you want to avoid as they could beat you.

NZ, and all other teams for that matter, who want to win the cup need to go into the comp beleiving they can win every game. No matter who they play against. Plus we see it time and time again the momentum really does help in pro sport so yo uwant to win each game.
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Post by Ninjarugby on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 4:08 pm

Jamie Heaslips reaction said it all, (although I disagreed with it as it was disrespectful). He was happy to get Scotland in the group and he hadn't even looked at the bigger picture.
In the last WC cycle Ireland have a better result against the AB's than Scotland do.
Its nothing to do with plotting. Its to do with who NZ would prefer to play in the 1/4 final & every time I believe the coach, the team & the kiwi public would prefer to play Scotland. That was my point and I'd be skeptical of anyone from New Zealand who would disagree.
If they did then back it up.
This idea of we don't care who we play doesn't really wash with me. Especially with the recent record between the 2 countries.
Granted you have to beat everybody to win the WC but the point was who you would prefer to play. Then I'd just prefer if Ireland played Italy in the 1/4 final.

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Post by rodders on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 4:11 pm

Ninjarugby wrote:Jamie Heaslips reaction said it all, (although I disagreed with it as it was disrespectful). He was happy to get Scotland in the group and he hadn't even looked at the bigger picture.

I think he was just happy we avoided the Pumas...
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Post by BigGee on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 4:16 pm

I am perfectly happy if any team thinks that Scotland will be a soft or sn easier option.

We often play our best in those circumstances. Australia likely underestimated us last time around snd were very very lucky to get away with it.

For what it is worth, i very much doubt this is the NZ mindset

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 4:17 pm

Ha yeah true

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 4:23 pm

BigGee wrote:I am perfectly happy if any team thinks that Scotland will be a soft or sn easier option.

We often play our best in those circumstances. Australia likely underestimated us last time around snd were very very lucky to get away with it.

For what it is worth, i very much doubt this is the NZ mindset

Imagine it though Gee, NZ with thier current loss of undeafeatabilty rocking up for QF agianst Scotland and they allow themselves to go back to thinking "Scotland, we'll beat them easy, they've never beaten us" and Scotland rock up thinking "NZ think they can beat us easily, they aent even as good as they used to be, we'll show them"

And then we beat them!!!

Yahoo laughing Hug Whistle Yahoo
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Post by Ninjarugby on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 5:19 pm

BigGee wrote:I am perfectly happy if any team thinks that Scotland will be a soft or sn easier option.

We often play our best in those circumstances. Australia likely underestimated us last time around and were very very lucky to get away with it.

For what it is worth, i very much doubt this is the NZ mindset

For me that Scotland performance was the performance of the day, (Arg having just beaten Ireland), in the earlier game.
Maybe they have unfinished business. If I was Townsend I'd be showing the team that game the night before.
Maybe Australia took the game for granted but I'm pretty sure Schmidt won't do the same. Edinburgh & Glasgow have improved so much over the past few seasons & as a knock on effect look at how Scotland played in the 2nd half against England. I take it Hew Jones didn't make the squad because of his defense.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 5:26 pm

A general loss of form last season really, injuries were part of it but just never really fired when he did get back

Unfortunately for him, that also coincided with other centre options for Scotland appearing and coming into form.

Hutchinson was in all honesty the unlucky one to miss the trip not Jones. It will be interesting to see who gets a call if one of our centres does go down.

Still Scotland loss may be Glasgow's gain and hopefully he will play himself back into form this season.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:16 pm

Ninjarugby wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
SecretFly wrote:If you start plotting those kind of equations, fate will come and bite you hard on the arse.

I've always believed with WCs that if you're trying to avoid the best for as long as possible, you don't deserve to be there and are not really in contention for th big prize.  You have to be prepared to meet the best when you meet them, because the odds are you'll meet at least three of them to get to a final or to win a final anyway

If you honestly and sincerely think you might win a final, then I don't care which of SA or NZ we meet first.  You're going to meet their kind anyway.

Exactly. You have to play the best side at some point. That’s why we don’t care who we play. Easy for NZ to say though.  Though I think if SA were able to beat NZ I’m not convinced the win between Ireland and Scotland will be seen as critical for either. A farce of a match is a genuine possibility. In fact I think the media will thrash it...not that I think SA will beat NZ though. They look ready for this.

Taylorman, I don't buy that for a minute. So you, Hansen, & Read don't care whether you play Scotland in the 1/4 final, really?
Are you just saying that or do you really mean it? Schmidt & Ireland have the same danger for NZ as Scotland having a 2/2 record since he took over.
If I was a Kiwi I would definitely prefer to play Scotland in a 1/4. They are a very good side but do they really pose the same threats?
All this talk about what happened in the past is exactly that. I'm hoping it will be a very open world cup with a few surprises.  

There’s a difference between a preference, and wanting to do things to alter the chances of that preference. If the situation were reversed, and Scot played and beat Ireland, NZ wouldn’t even contemplate losing to SA to enable a certain Scotland quarter. Yes we’d rather play Scotland, but for no other reason than a win is that much more likely.

Yet I doubt that will be the case if SA beat NZ. Scotland for example would gladly lie down using even your very own logic.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:26 pm

Scotland are going to knock NZ out

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:36 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:I want Scotland to play New Zealand in the quarter finals.

We don't do well against overtly physical teams like South Africa and if we are the deemed the new France in terms of "they might joue or they might be awful", what better time to play new zealand than in a world cup quarter final? Laugh

I think you are right there, I see Scotland as having a reasonably good shot all things considered of turning over NZ.

Its a million to 1 shot

Bound to happen

If it doesn’t happen, we’ve had our first upset. Either SA or Scotland will have won their first games.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 8:35 pm

I'll tell you what. Ireland seem to be back in better form so as proof of our good friendly nature I think we should let Scotland play both SA AND NZ in the quarter finals. One for them and one for us. And we'll play what's left of Scotland in the semi.
Sounds fair to me. Scotland seem to want to play both.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 10:06 pm

SecretFly wrote:I'll tell you what.  Ireland seem to be back in better form so as proof of our good friendly nature I think we should let Scotland play both SA AND NZ in the quarter finals.  One for them and one for us.  And we'll play what's left of Scotland in the semi.  
Sounds fair to me.  Scotland seem to want to play both.

Ok then, I’ll make some calls... thumbsup

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 10:56 am

Hmmm.... bunch of you fellas got told off on another thread for the Ireland v New Zealand cat fighting.

And it got me to thinking.......  this here rivalry is Real.  Something is going down here.  New Zealand fans really do save their best stuff for sides that catch their attention.  In the old days, Ireland was hardly findable on a map for most AB fans.  All their bile was usually reserved for good olde England and yes, I'll be honest, you kinda did envy that intense robust verbal rivalry.  You woz on the outside lookin' in - it would kinda bring a BOD tear to the eye feeling so small and insignificant.

Well at least that's changed now.  We're up there with the big boys now..... getting top quality A-Grade put-downs from our Kiwi pals.

Wonderful world.  All is good Hug

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 5:34 pm

Forecast for Ireland v Scotland is torrential rain.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 5:36 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Forecast for Ireland v Scotland is torrential rain.

 Would suit Scotland better than Ireland. So early up set could be on the cards.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 5:41 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Forecast for Ireland v Scotland is torrential rain.

 Would suit Scotland better than Ireland. So early up set could be on the cards.

Why?

Fastest passing team in the Milky Way..... Shocked

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 6:47 pm

Definitely suits irelands game over ours.

With that in mind I'd say 20-5 to ireland
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Post by tigertattie on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 11:32 pm

Mudfest suits Ireland better. 100%

More attritional pack. Better kick chase.
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Post by George Carlin on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 6:51 am

SecretFly wrote:Are yis not terrified of meeting the number one ranked team in the world???  Shocked

The bloody lack of respect the best sides get these days is appalling. mad
Laugh clap
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Post by George Carlin on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 6:52 am

NeilyBroon wrote:Definitely suits irelands game over ours.

With that in mind I'd say 20-5 to ireland
Correct. Conor McGobshite will kick it down our throats all day.
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Post by Old Man on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 9:43 am

George Carlin wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Definitely suits irelands game over ours.

With that in mind I'd say 20-5 to ireland
Correct. Conor McGobshite will kick it down our throats all day.

Send someone to break his big toe. censored

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:05 am

George Carlin wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Definitely suits irelands game over ours.

With that in mind I'd say 20-5 to ireland
Correct. Conor McGobshite will kick it down our throats all day.

McGobshite is only operating at 20% capacity.... and he's throwing the ball out (at about 9mph) to a hasbeen, washed-up chancer Johnny Slumbershite. Scotland have this one in the black binliner bag.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:14 am

Stop giving us the favourites label! Thats as much our kryptonite as a good scrum.
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Post by tigertattie on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:16 am

SecretFly wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Definitely suits irelands game over ours.

With that in mind I'd say 20-5 to ireland
Correct. Conor McGobshite will kick it down our throats all day.

McGobshite is only operating at 20% capacity.... and he's throwing the ball out (at about 9mph) to a hasbeen, washed-up chancer Johnny Slumbershite.  Scotland have this one in the black binliner bag.

You Irish are an odd bunch! I've heard of a black binliner, I've heard of a black bag, but I've never heard of a black binliner bag!

But thanks for the vote of confidence. Nice to know we have this in the black binliner bag meaning we can rest some players vs Samoa
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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:19 am

With odds like these we could bring Horne on at FH by half time. Ireland will deserve a chance to score a hatrick of interceptions when they're 50 points down
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Post by tigertattie on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:28 am

NeilyBroon wrote:With odds like these we could bring Horne on at FH by half time. Ireland will deserve a chance to score a hatrick of interceptions when they're 50 points down

Not happening Nelly.

If we brought Horne on (even at 12) he would gift them points wrapped up in a little bow. They'd then come within two points of us and will be pressing to get the ball off us in our own 22, the clock will go dead at 80 mins and the ball would be chucked to Horne to kick it out to end the game for the win, he'd then scuff the kick and the ball would float in the air and end up with Bundi Aki.

Aki would then look up and see that Ireland have a 3 man overlap to his right and in front of him is Jonny Gray and Hamish Watson who are both flanking Horne, Aki, being the smart player that he is, looks at his three man overlap, then looks back at Pete Horne so decides to run striaght at pete Horne who, with a child like whimper, crumples to the ground in an attempt at tackling which is as weak as Jeremy Corbin's stance on the economy and Boris Johnson's ability to listen, Aki would then run ovr the top of Horne and score under the posts for the win.

In the postmatch interview, Aki praises Horne for making him play better!
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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:51 am

Well they don't call him Pete "team player of the decade" Horne for nothing. His subsequent interview with the beeb will be on how his sliced kicks add variety to Scotland's attack
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Post by Tramptastic on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:52 am

As much as we bemoan the weather not favoring Scotland we canni forget our guys play week in, week out in cr*p weather so they'll be as used to it as Ireland.

We also forget Russell's kicking game (when he's switched on) is really quite clever, not just the clearance kicks but the tricksy little grubbers and chips he puts in.

For the long kicking game Hogg has a siege cannon of a boot that leads to excellent touch finders.

I wouldn't be too bothered by the wet weather, stick Barclay, Watson and the replicant on and that'll be a horrible backrow to play against in torrential rain.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 11:02 am

I wouldn't be as worried about rain if we had the power game to match irelands, as much of the scores will be close quarters stuff. All ireland need to do is hold their discipline whereas our forwards will have to show something they've not shown in over a year and not since we last beat ireland. Dominance in contact and set piece.
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Post by tigertattie on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:36 pm

Yes Russell has a decent kicking game, yes Hogg has a huge boot on him, yes we have a tasty backrow, yes we live in Scotland where the Wet Season lasts from January to December, but, our game is set up to play fast paced attacking rugby. Ireland's game plan is based on letting their opponents have the ball until they make a mistake.

In addition to this, for some unknown reason, when we put a high ball up, no one but the kicker takes off after it. Plus other than Tommy Seymour, none of our back three players are particularly fond of fielding kicks from the opposition.

So all in all, Scotland do not want wet conditions!

10 years ago when playing against Oz we'd pray for rain, but not these days!
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Post by robbo277 on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 6:56 pm

Japan are apparently aiming for a ball-in-play time of 50 minutes this World Cup. The current test average is 36 minutes.

England in 2015 thought they would see high ball-in-play times and conditioned themselves for that. The average was down at 34 minutes, which was unusually low.

I assume Japan have done the conditioning to get that high ball-in-play time, but 50 would be some jump. I don't know how they're going to manage it, other teams will surely be wise to this and try to slow the game down? But then even if they get up to 40 minutes it would be a significant increase.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 8:19 pm

That just soundx silly dvdn by Scottish standards, who chuck the bsll about aimlessly often enough. They will just tire themselves out and get picked off.

They may struggle to best Samoa playing like that who will have a physical pack, well able to stick it up thd jumper and do some damage.

All the top sides are fit and you won't win games just by trying to run any of them off the park.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 10:49 pm

50 mins is way too much.

Rugby is a game for all shapes and sizes as they say but given the old adage that rugby boys weren’t fast enough to play in the football team, us chunkies tend to outnumber the wee fellas which is why ball in play is below half the game time.

If Japan think they can run about for 50 mins then good luck to them. If Toonie has an ounce of coaching ability, if they do try this then doing the Ireland thing is the way to go. Give them the ball and let them fling it around till the make a mistake, wait till they tire then put 20 points passed them in the last 20
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