Japan 2019 - Pool C - Argentina England France Tonga USA

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Team	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	Tries	PF	PA	+/-	BP	Points
England	2	2	0	0	11	80	10	70	2	10
Argentina	2	1	0	1	6	49	35	14	2	6
France	1	1	0	0	0	2	23	21	2	4
USA	1	0	0	1	1	7	45	-38	0	0
Tonga	2	0	0	2	2	17	63	-46	0	0

France 23-21 Argentina                  
England 35-3 Tonga      
England 45-7 United States
Argentina 28-14 Tonga                       


2 October 2019                   France v United States                 Fukuoka Hakatanomori Stadium, Fukuoka
5 October 2019                   England v Argentina                    Tokyo Stadium, Chōfu
6 October 2019                   France v Tonga                            Kumamoto Stadium, Kumamoto
9 October 2019                   Argentina v United States             Kumagaya Rugby Stadium, Kumagaya
12 October 2019                 England v France                         International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
13 October 2019                 United States v Tonga                  Hanazono Rugby Stadium, Higashiōsaka

Argentina vs Tonga and the non-try just before half time.

If a player hits someone with their left shoulder and wraps their right arm, but their left arm is tucked, is that a tackle? Or a shoulder charge?

Ref and TMO ruled the tackle was legitimate but I'm not convinced.

Great try by Tonga, with a sublime offload and exquisite finish at the end. 

At 28-12 should still be a comfortable win for Argentina, but they have looked limited. Possess a strong lineout maul, but little beyond that.

Tonga are playing like they’re still in it and it’s fantastic to watch

Tonga was unlucky with  a couple of try's being disallowed.

Argentina although they won the game, did not do anything to make a little affraid of them.

Still good win for Argentina with the Bonus Point in the end.

The tmo decision before half time was simply lazy and bizarre!

If we lose to Argentina we'll get a second chance against France, but in all honesty should probably pack up and go home.

I see no evidence that they've raised it for this World Cup. They were dreadful first half against France and average against Tonga. Two tries from lineouts, two tries from errors and then showed nothing for 50 minutes.

If we lose to Argentina and then beat France it will come down to bonus points, but you'd say the two teams to qualify would be favourites for a QF exit.

robbo277 wrote:Argentina vs Tonga and the non-try just before half time.

If a player hits someone with their left shoulder and wraps their right arm, but their left arm is tucked, is that a tackle? Or a shoulder charge?

Ref and TMO ruled the tackle was legitimate but I'm not convinced.

YC and PT for me ...

Agree and that would have changed the perspective of the game big time

It was worth having a look at, for sure. Not sure it was a guaranteed yellow based on the angle shown by the TMO. It really could go either way - nothing, or penalty try and yellow. He did wrap one arm. Just need to see what his other one did.

Piers Francis "cleared" by the disciplinary panel as they deem the first point of contact to be the ball before hitting the head. Decision is it did not meet the RC threshold and should have been a YC.

There's another typhoon coming up from the south. It might affect the France vs USA game.

https://twitter.com/FreemanrugbyJPN/status/1178203650696499201

Rugby Fan wrote:There's another typhoon coming up from the south. It might affect the France vs USA game.

https://twitter.com/FreemanrugbyJPN/status/1178203650696499201

It would be a bit of a travesty if it decided the group - which it could well do if the game gets rained off and France end up with only 2 points

Heaf wrote:

robbo277 wrote:Argentina vs Tonga and the non-try just before half time.

If a player hits someone with their left shoulder and wraps their right arm, but their left arm is tucked, is that a tackle? Or a shoulder charge?

Ref and TMO ruled the tackle was legitimate but I'm not convinced.

YC and PT for me ...

I agree. How is a shoulder barge less dangerous based on what the other arm is doing? By the time that arm wraps the injury has occurred.

France doing a thing that only really France can do and calling an injured player up to the Rugby World Cup squad.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-world-cup/2019/09/30/france-apologise-fans-reporters-calling-player-rugby-world-cup/

In short, with Demba Bamba ruled out they tried to call up Antonio, who suffered an injury on Saturday. Cedate Gomes Sa will join the squad instead, but has not been named in the 23 to face the USA.

Assuming Wales and England top their groups, that would mean Wales meeting the runners up of group C, correct? Likely to be France I guess.

1. C Baille
2. C Chat
3. E Setiano
4. B Le Roux
5. P Gabrillagues
6. A Iturria
7. Y Camara
8. L Picamoles
Backs
9. M Machenaud
10. C Lopez
11. Y Huget
12. G Fickou
13. S Guitoune
14. A Raka
15. T Ramos

Replacements:
G Guirado, J Poirot, R Slimani, S Vahaamahina, G Alldritt, B Serin, R Ntamack, M Medard

mikey_dragon wrote:Assuming Wales and England top their groups, that would mean Wales meeting the runners up of group C, correct? Likely to be France I guess.

Correct

France, who face Tonga just 4 days after USA have wrung the changes following the Argentina game. Not many players will have started both games.

LondonTiger wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Assuming Wales and England top their groups, that would mean Wales meeting the runners up of group C, correct? Likely to be France I guess.

Correct

Argentina, USA and Tonga could all be out the running if France beat USA, England beat Argentina and France beat Tonga - and you wouldn't bet against any of those results individually. That would set up a play-off for first place in the last game between England and France, with the remaining fixtures (Argentina vs USA and USA vs Tonga) being dead rubbers.

If Argentina beat England then we could see England vs France becoming an elimination game, depending on how the bonus points fall. England would be eliminated with a loss to France, while a win would see it come down to bonus points (3 teams on 3 wins).

If France drop one of their games, then Argentina stay alive even if they don't beat England, but would be relying on England beating France. Then both Argentina and France would have lost 2 and it comes down to bonus points between the two of them.

I'm not so sure that USA have it in them to beat France. Tonga maybe if they were playing that French team, but not the eagles! So your initial theory seems the likely outcome.

Neil Hatley suggesting Mako may start against Argentina.

Suppose it's a little if he plays and proves hes fit great and he can get up.tonspeednfornthe knockoursnshould we.make it: if he breaks down we know he needs replacing.

Hatley also suggested that starting would be easier than coming off teh bench due to being more warmed up and adrenaline flying.

Plenty of adrenaline flies on the benches as I'm sure we all can attest to. Sometimes the muscle tension and bow-pulled-ready-for-release effect is so strong when I'm watching serious games, that I'm ready to do serious damage if the phone rings and I'm asked to fill in for Stockdale in the second half!

40-50mins vs Arg is a must for Mako

As the team been named for the Argentina game yet?

Game is on Saturday. I'd expect Thursday for the team selection

France vs USA about to kick off. No one seems to think the Seppos can get within 15 points of France.

France XV:
Thomas Ramos, Alivereti Raka, Sofiane Guitoune, Gael Fickou, Yoann Huget, Camille Lopez, Maxime Machenaud; Louis Picamoles (c), Yacouba Camara, Arthur Iturria, Paul Gabrillagues, Bernard Le Roux, Emerick Setiano, Camille Chat, Cyril Baille.

United States XV:
Mike Teo, Blaine Scully (c), Marcel Brache, Bryce Campbell, Martin Iosefo, AJ MacGinty, Shaun Davies; Cam Dolan, Hanco Germishuys, Tony Lamborn, Nick Civetta, Nate Brakeley, Titi Lamositele, Joe Taufetee, Eric Fry.

Some great phase play by France, really looking good.

When will the ref get a yellow out, No 8 should already be in the bin. USA were going to score No8 pulls it down. Easy call for Ref, but he bottled it.

Rake looks a great option on the wing, making yards all the time and just scored a lovely try...

TightHEAD wrote:When will the ref get a yellow out, No 8 should already be in the bin. USA were going to score No8 pulls it down. Easy call for Ref, but he bottled it.

It’s still very early in the game, not really how it happened. Not card worthy really. Let’s hope the game continues in good spirit.

Yet another warning!

Doesn't matter if the game has just started, a yellow is a yellow

.... And they could have scored

Not sure why you would argue that?

Surely a yellow card has to be given. Far too many warnings...

eirebilly wrote:Surely a yellow card has to be given. Far too many warnings...

Referee just said next one was a yellow but France have cleared the ball back to half way.

Looks like the tactic is tire the Seppo tank and then run in the scores. When the ball goes wide France look handy.

Americans doing well at the tackle to get possession back. French backrow looking a bit lazy in that respect..

All a bit messy at the breakdown

Big lads USA. France can't bully. Problemos getting through.

Usually you say Tier 1 team waits for Tier 2 to tire. Hmmmm.... France don't usually benefit from the reputation of relying on superior fitness.

SecretFly wrote:Big lads USA.  France can't bully.  Problemos getting through.  

Usually you say Tier 1 team waits for Tier 2 to tire.  Hmmmm.... France don't usually benefit from the reputation of relying on superior fitness.

Ha ha ha yes I completely agree maybe not a wise decision tactically. This French team look a lot fitter than when these players are at the top14 clubs though.

Frustrating to watch, USA keep getting in good positions then try one too many offloads, keep it in tight. France will give away penalties.

England will fancy it against them.

TightHEAD wrote:Frustrating to watch, USA keep getting in good positions then try one too many offloads, keep it in tight. France will give away penalties.

England will fancy it against them.

Ha ha ha

This is Frances second team, 11 changes I think he said pre-match.

What do you think the score will be vs France in the last game of the pool? 40 point win to England like in the six nations?

France start playing like Ireland.

SecretFly wrote:France start playing like Ireland.

Not very good control at the break down on the last two surges.

Look great ball in hand, but they keep relying on the big ball carriers.

Ireland are smarter than that?

Correction...now they're trying to play like Japan

We are also forgetting the weather I suppose. Very hard to tell but it is absolutely raining cats and Dogs as this typhoon passes through Fukuoka.

Heads seem to have been lost... good for USA for giving it a go, but France playing well below what they are/should be capable of!

And that just then was a weird long pass to squander what should have been an easy score.

I keep thinking about France, and I keep seeing the Italian coach sitting in their coaching slot.

Was he really good enough to be employed by France to improve their fortunes?  Was he really their best bet out there?  The French are loaded with money...as much as the UK.

Having said that, they'll probably win the WC!  They are that whacky.

Looked like there was a forward pass in that American move

Hmmmm....let uz try Wolverine!