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How long can Fury get away with it?

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 12:15 pm

So Tyson Fury will soon be facing another guy that most of us have never heard of, and presumably being paid handsomely in the process.

How much longer can this go on for? How many more tomato cans can he face before it seriously damages his legacy and marketability? I understand he's building his fan base in American at the moment, but surely they'll only tolerate so much of this rubbish.

We are told that the Wilder fight is next, but I don't buy it as the Ortiz date hasn't been announced yet. Obviously Joshua and Ruiz are busy. So what's stopping him facing a Povetkin, Parker, Whyte, Pulev, etc? Hell, even Joe Joyce would be an acceptable match up and would probably sell out Cardiff.

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Post by No name Bertie on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 6:16 pm

He seems a valid opponent given the claim of some that there are very few top level heavyweight boxers.  Parker is fighting Chisora, Povetkin was fighting Hughie Fury, Whyte is in limbo ...

Einar Otto Wallin: Swedish professional boxer.  No. 4 in WBA heavyweight rankings, No. 11 in IBF  rankings. 28 years, 21 professional fights - undefeated (20 wins + one no contest),  6 ft 6 in tall,  Reach 78 in.  Holds  WBA Continental heavyweight title, holds European Union & Swedish heavyweight titles.  Fought Anthony Joshua twice as an amateur - outpointed both times.  Sparring partner of Anthony Joshua, Jarrell Miller and Adam Kownacki.

Tyson Fury needs to keep busy and focused after his long lay off and mental health issues.  He has never ducked a fight - has fought Klischko and Wilder on their home patch - and his agreeing to fight with Wilder in their first fight looked suicidal given his time out and rustiness.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 10:11 pm

No name Bertie wrote:He seems a valid opponent given the claim of some that there are very few top level heavyweight boxers.  Parker is fighting Chisora, Povetkin was fighting Hughie Fury, Whyte is in limbo ...

Einar Otto Wallin: Swedish professional boxer.  No. 4 in WBA heavyweight rankings, No. 11 in IBF  rankings. 28 years, 21 professional fights - undefeated (20 wins + one no contest),  6 ft 6 in tall,  Reach 78 in.  Holds  WBA Continental heavyweight title, holds European Union & Swedish heavyweight titles.  Fought Anthony Joshua twice as an amateur - outpointed both times.  Sparring partner of Anthony Joshua, Jarrell Miller and Adam Kownacki.

Tyson Fury needs to keep busy and focused after his long lay off and mental health issues.  He has never ducked a fight - has fought Klischko and Wilder on their home patch - and his agreeing to fight with Wilder in their first fight looked suicidal given his time out and rustiness.

Great stuff again Bertie but you ever watched him fight?

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Post by No name Bertie on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 11:11 pm

Yea - okay - you both seem right. He looks like European level at best.

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 1:08 pm

A couple of points - yes Fury has fought Wilder and Wlad, and did great. But his other opponents have been B-grade. You could understand that 15-20 fights into his career.. but these days he's possibly the best in the division, he's at the prime age for a heavy, and he can no longer claim to be on the comeback trail. He simply shouldn't be fighting guys like this now... Wallin is possibly even a step backwards from Francesco Pianeta!!

Also, weren't David Haye's two opponents for his comeback (Mark de Mori and someone else I'd never heard of) both top-10 ranked by one of the major bodies, yet turned out to be essentially walking punchbags? It doesn't really mean much.


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Post by Just John on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 8:58 am


Tyson Fury battled to a points win over Otto Wallin as he fought for over nine rounds with heavy cuts to maintain his unbeaten record in a dramatic bout in Las Vegas.

116-112 117-111 118-110

Poor night for Tyson, at 18 stone, he looked very weak

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 9:52 am

Just John wrote:
Poor night for Tyson, at 18 stone, he looked very weak

I'm not convinced by this argument. No reason for a professional athlete to be carrying around pounds of fat.

He just wasn't particularly good for the first couple of rounds, seemed a bit uncoordinated and not really switched on. Then got a very bad cut and struggled for the remainder.

I still think Wallin was a very sub-par opponent for the supposed division #1, but nice to be proved wrong and see a competitive fight.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 11:48 am

Fury doesn’t seem capable of his best performances when he faces lower level opponents.

Going back a few years McDermott the first time they fought - dreadful performances.

Last night he obviously overlooked or more so had no respect for Wallin.

Fury’s three best performances have been when he’s been the ‘underdog’ - Chisora I, Klitschko and Wilder.

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Post by rapidringsroad on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 12:36 am

Fury definitely doesn't punch his weight and when opponents realize this they will pressure him hoping to land the big one. Saying that, Fury was quite mobile in short spells and his hand speed is good and he won at the weekend but at no time was Wallin in danger of being stopped.

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 2:27 pm

Yes, Fury certainly doesn't carry explosive power. In fact I wonder whether if in the Wilder rematch (assuming it happens), Wilder might be willing to eat a few more jabs in order to land the power shots.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 4:04 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Fury doesn’t seem capable of his best performances when he faces lower level opponents.

Going back a few years McDermott the first time they fought - dreadful performances.

Last night he obviously overlooked or more so had no respect for Wallin.

Fury’s three best performances have been when he’s been the ‘underdog’ - Chisora I, Klitschko and Wilder.

So he is unprofessional then....Fair enough..

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 10:39 am

smashingstormcrow wrote:Yes, Fury certainly doesn't carry explosive power. In fact I wonder whether if in the Wilder rematch (assuming it happens), Wilder might be willing to eat a few more jabs in order to land the power shots.

Wilder showed what can happen if/when he does connect with Fury. The American was perhaps unlucky that there was one loooong count. Fury does not seem to have much power, but is Wilder able to force himself to risk taking a shot in order to perhaps knockout the Brit?

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Post by Mr Bounce on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 10:39 pm

Wilder knows he'll be outboxed and will lose on points if he doesn't put Fury down and out. I reckon it'll be a one-sided affair if it's anything like the last fight, with Wilder not getting his shots off and Fury boxing from range. However, Wilder is coming off a massive KO win over Breazeale and will want to prove his point again. Wouldn't be surprised to see Wilder throwing caution to the wind and just going for it.

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 1:08 pm

Yeah I think that's a real possibility... a much more aggressive and gung-ho Wilder next time.

But will the rematch actually go ahead? It's certainly not happening in February, is it! Is Wilder even going to fight Ortiz this year? Would Fury look at the Joshua/Ruiz winner instead, if there's no movement on the Wilder situation?

I'm a bit worried that this could be the start of a verrrry long period of inactivity for Fury, as he probably won't be allowed to take an interim fight because of those cuts...

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Post by Marky on Tue 08 Oct 2019, 8:08 am

Tyson Fury v Braun Strowman in the medium of WWE is happening. I dont know if that counts as staying active before the Wilder rematch or not Laugh

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 9:29 pm

Marky wrote:Tyson Fury v Braun Strowman in the medium of WWE is happening. I dont know if that counts as staying active before the Wilder rematch or not Laugh
And fully official 31/10 in Saudi Arabia.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 12:52 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Marky wrote:Tyson Fury v Braun Strowman in the medium of WWE is happening. I dont know if that counts as staying active before the Wilder rematch or not Laugh
And fully official 31/10 in Saudi Arabia.
This has to be a farce. "Braun Strowman" is 175 kg of mainly bone and muscle while Tyson Fury is 117 kg of bone, muscle and flab. If it was a real battle Fury would get his back broken. Even if they play around Tyson Fury is still likely to get his back broken. Although there is a lot of nonsense in WWE - these guys are huge and can cause a lot of damage when their often carefully choreographed movements go slightly wrong.

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Post by rapidringsroad on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 2:33 am

Fury is in the game for the money and being held in Saudi Arabia you can bet there is plenty of that being thrown around. I don't think we are going to see a return bout with Wilder any time soon, if ever.

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Post by rapidringsroad on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 9:23 pm

Boxers tend to have a bout with a wrestler when they are coming to the end of their career as Ali and Mayweather did to grab their last chance at a big payday. I know Ali went on to fight for many more years but at the time his career was in decline. I don't know what Fury hopes to gain from this farce with the wrestler but it could turn out to be a big mistake.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 9:29 pm

No name Bertie wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Marky wrote:Tyson Fury v Braun Strowman in the medium of WWE is happening. I dont know if that counts as staying active before the Wilder rematch or not Laugh
And fully official 31/10 in Saudi Arabia.
This has to be a farce.  "Braun Strowman" is 175 kg of mainly bone and muscle while Tyson Fury is 117 kg of bone, muscle and flab.  If it was a real battle Fury would get his back broken.  Even if they play around Tyson Fury is still likely to get his back broken.  Although there is a lot of nonsense in WWE - these guys are huge and can cause a lot of damage when their often carefully choreographed movements go slightly wrong.

Not sure if this sarcasm or not but you do know that Strowman isn't actually 175kg right?

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 15 Oct 2019, 9:42 am

rapidringsroad wrote:Boxers tend to have a bout with a wrestler when they are coming to the end of their career as Ali and Mayweather did to grab their last chance at a big payday. I know Ali went on to fight for many more years but at the time his career was in decline. I don't know what Fury hopes to gain from this farce with the wrestler but it could turn out to be a big mistake.

A profile boost I guess. WWE will push him as teh World Champion to their PPV fans which will drive his name recognition upwards. Plus he gets to "perform" in Saudi Arabia before Joshua does.

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Post by Marky on Tue 15 Oct 2019, 9:58 am

rapidringsroad wrote:Boxers tend to have a bout with a wrestler when they are coming to the end of their career as Ali and Mayweather did to grab their last chance at a big payday. I know Ali went on to fight for many more years but at the time his career was in decline. I don't know what Fury hopes to gain from this farce with the wrestler but it could turn out to be a big mistake.

After Floyd had his Wrestlemania match, he went on to fight Marquez, Mosley, Ortiz, Cotto, Guerrero, Canelo, Maidana (twice), Pacquiao, Berto, and then McGregor. Not bad for WWE being his "last chance at a big payday" Laugh

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Tue 15 Oct 2019, 10:19 am

Of course it's a "farce"! WWE and similar "pro wrestling" is pure performance, frequently over-the-top... theatrical, and yes, often farcical.

I don't know why people enjoy it, but apparently plenty do. It's their choice, I suppose. I don't see the downside for Fury... huge exposure, and it suits his larger-than-life character and slightly bizarre sense of humour. Good luck to him (ETA - as long as it doesn't stop him facing a decent opponent some time soon!!!)

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 15 Oct 2019, 1:01 pm

Fury has the World at his feet..

Consensus rightly that he beat Wilder.....Joshua was trashed by a David Bey appreciation act..

Fury is not only has ten times the charisma of anyone in the Heavy division he is regarded as number 1...

Sad to say but Fury can take as long as he wants....

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Post by Afro on Tue 15 Oct 2019, 2:32 pm

Fury is trying to boost his profile in the US, so WWE is a good way to do that, I bet a lot more American's know him now than when he fought Wilder
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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 15 Oct 2019, 2:36 pm

It's an embarrassment and nothing more.

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Post by Fernando on Tue 15 Oct 2019, 8:00 pm

$15m payday for Tyson

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 16 Oct 2019, 10:15 am

Fernando wrote:$15m payday for Tyson

I would be shocked if it was any where near that high. While the Saudi's are probably paying a decent whack to WWE to turn up, the low PPV numbers would mean that WWE would make a sizeable loss should they pay that sort of amount.

I very much doubt that money is the driving factor for Fury - though he would need to improve his patter to come across well to the TV audience as his attempts in the Raw/Smackdown segments were uniquely uncharismatic.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 16 Oct 2019, 11:03 am

Boxing will never recover till champions are forced to fight four times a year or at least three anyway.. or be stripped

Is it going to happen? Not in my lifetime I imagine

The heavyweight division is turning around so slowly atm that it’s become a bit of a turn off

It’s classic Bob Arum though. Filler fights while waiting on a big fight. It’s what Bob loves easy money

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Post by Fernando on Wed 16 Oct 2019, 1:12 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Fernando wrote:$15m payday for Tyson

I would be shocked if it was any where near that high. While the Saudi's are probably paying a decent whack to WWE to turn up, the low PPV numbers would mean that WWE would make a sizeable loss should they pay that sort of amount.

I very much doubt that money is the driving factor for Fury - though he would need to improve his patter to come across well to the TV audience as his attempts in the Raw/Smackdown segments were uniquely uncharismatic.

Saudi Arabia are paying $450m for a 10 year deal. It's already been confirmed as a $15m pay day for Fury. Due to what Saudi Arabia are paying for it they can throw stupid amounts of money at it even at the request of Saudi Arabia people are coming out of retirement for huge paydays , it's why former UFC Fighter Cain Velasquez is there too.

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Post by Marky on Wed 16 Oct 2019, 2:58 pm

Fernando wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Fernando wrote:$15m payday for Tyson

I would be shocked if it was any where near that high. While the Saudi's are probably paying a decent whack to WWE to turn up, the low PPV numbers would mean that WWE would make a sizeable loss should they pay that sort of amount.

I very much doubt that money is the driving factor for Fury - though he would need to improve his patter to come across well to the TV audience as his attempts in the Raw/Smackdown segments were uniquely uncharismatic.

Saudi Arabia are paying $450m for a 10 year deal. It's already been confirmed as a $15m pay day for Fury.  Due to what Saudi Arabia are paying for it they can throw stupid amounts of money at it even at the request of Saudi Arabia people are coming out of retirement for huge paydays , it's why former UFC Fighter Cain Velasquez is there too.

To be fair, that's $45m per year, two shows a year = $22.5m per show, are they really paying Tyson $15m of that $22.5m payment?

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Post by rapidringsroad on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 3:21 am

I was referring to Mayweather's "exhibition bout" I think it was in Japan and I think it was scheduled for four rounds.

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Post by Marky on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 9:50 am

rapidringsroad wrote:I was referring to Mayweather's "exhibition bout" I think it was in Japan and I think it was scheduled for four rounds.

You literally said "a bout with a wrestler", and Mayweather had a bout with a wrestler (very similar to Tyson Fury's current situation) years before he stopped boxing. The Japanese exhibition was money making, but clearly not the same thing as Tyson Fury's current predicament.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 10:32 am

Marky wrote:
Fernando wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Fernando wrote:$15m payday for Tyson

I would be shocked if it was any where near that high. While the Saudi's are probably paying a decent whack to WWE to turn up, the low PPV numbers would mean that WWE would make a sizeable loss should they pay that sort of amount.

I very much doubt that money is the driving factor for Fury - though he would need to improve his patter to come across well to the TV audience as his attempts in the Raw/Smackdown segments were uniquely uncharismatic.

Saudi Arabia are paying $450m for a 10 year deal. It's already been confirmed as a $15m pay day for Fury.  Due to what Saudi Arabia are paying for it they can throw stupid amounts of money at it even at the request of Saudi Arabia people are coming out of retirement for huge paydays , it's why former UFC Fighter Cain Velasquez is there too.

To be fair, that's $45m per year, two shows a year = $22.5m per show, are they really paying Tyson $15m of that $22.5m payment?

I would assume there is more to it than just WWE pay. I think there's a link to the Fox deal and ESPN (is that who he's exclusive with out there?), as well as the Saudis pushing for big events like boxing. He's getting better on TV, but he hasn't yet shown the charisma in a world where being larger than life is barely enough to be the norm

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Post by Marky on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 10:46 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Marky wrote:
Fernando wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Fernando wrote:$15m payday for Tyson

I would be shocked if it was any where near that high. While the Saudi's are probably paying a decent whack to WWE to turn up, the low PPV numbers would mean that WWE would make a sizeable loss should they pay that sort of amount.

I very much doubt that money is the driving factor for Fury - though he would need to improve his patter to come across well to the TV audience as his attempts in the Raw/Smackdown segments were uniquely uncharismatic.

Saudi Arabia are paying $450m for a 10 year deal. It's already been confirmed as a $15m pay day for Fury.  Due to what Saudi Arabia are paying for it they can throw stupid amounts of money at it even at the request of Saudi Arabia people are coming out of retirement for huge paydays , it's why former UFC Fighter Cain Velasquez is there too.

To be fair, that's $45m per year, two shows a year = $22.5m per show, are they really paying Tyson $15m of that $22.5m payment?

I would assume there is more to it than just WWE pay. I think there's a link to the Fox deal and ESPN (is that who he's exclusive with out there?), as well as the Saudis pushing for big events like boxing. He's getting better on TV, but he hasn't yet shown the charisma in a world where being larger than life is barely enough to be the norm

When he first appeared on SD on Fox I wondered if it was linked to his ESPN deal, but since then he's only been on Raw (on USA). It's a fair point though, that not all of his pay is Saudi money.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 11:02 am

Braun is on the blue brand now, I think. Probably be back on there again.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 26 Oct 2019, 11:29 pm

rapidringsroad wrote:Fury is in the game for the money and being held in Saudi Arabia you can bet there is plenty of that being thrown around. I don't think we are going to see a return bout with Wilder any time soon, if ever.
Maybe this is a near call. Fury is saying boxing is a young man's game and is suggesting he will have three fights in 2020 - two with Deontay Wilder and then a farewell fight at the end of 2020.

He says that he decided alone to accept the WWE offer to fight in Saudi Arabia, that his promoter, trainer and father were all against it - but Fury said you only live once - and he is happy to take the risk and gain the experience. He will also be earning a huge amount of money.

He says he has five kids and a wife and is thinking about going out on a high, earning lots of money, and then spending time with the wife and kids after they have sacrificed so much in allowing him to do his stuff - a sort of absentee husband and father - who has spent most of his time focusing on his career - plus all the mental health issues he suffers from.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/50186368 2020 likely to be his final year as a boxer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/50132835 His decision to take up the WWE offer

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