Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

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Table

Pos	Team	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	For	Against	Pts Difference	Bonus	Points
1	Northampton Saints	7	5	2	0	194	146	48	3	23
2	Exeter Chiefs	6	4	2	0	142	97	45	4	20
3	Gloucester Rugby	7	3	4	0	149	121	28	6	18
4	Bristol Bears	7	3	3	1	157	165	-8	4	18
5	Bath Rugby	7	4	3	0	139	145	-6	1	17
6	Worcester Warriors	7	4	3	0	122	144	-22	1	17
7	Sale Sharks	7	3	4	0	144	105	39	5	17
8	Harlequins	7	3	3	1	158	169	-11	3	17
9	London Irish	7	2	4	1	128	179	-51	2	12
10	Wasps	7	2	5	0	134	191	-57	3	11
11	Leicester Tigers	7	1	5	1	118	191	-76	0	6
12	Saracens	6	5	1	0	158	87	71	-32	-13

Bath
Last Season - 6th

Players in: Lewis Boyce (Prop), Christian Judge (Prop), Will Stuart (Prop), Mike Williams (Utility Forward), Josh McNally (Second Row), Ollie Fox (Scrum Half)
Promoted from Academy: Miles Reid, Will Vaughan, Sam Nixon, Tom de Glanville, Will Britton, Jack Davies, Tom Doughty, Levi Davis promoted (X Factor permitting)

Players Out: Dave Attwood (Second Row), Paul Grant (Back Row), Luke Charteris (Second Row), James Wilson (Utility Back), Kahn Fotuali'i (Scrum Half), Jacques van Rooyen (Prop), Jack Wilson (Wing), Cooper Vuna (Wing), Anthony Perenise (Prop), Michael van Vuuren (Hooker), Max Lahiff (Prop)


Bristol Bears
Last Season - 9th

Players in: Dave Attwood (Second Row), Nathan Hughes (Back Row), Nicky Thomas (Prop), Max Lahiff (Prop), Tyrese Johnson-Fisher (Wing)
Promoted from Academy: Sam Bedlow, John Hawkins, Toby Fricker

Players out: Nick Haining (Back Row), George Smith (Back Row), Nick Fenton-Wells (Back Row), Joe Latta (Second Row), Tusi Pisi (Fly Half), Sione Faletau (Prop), Jack Lam (Back Row)


Exeter Chiefs
Last Season: Runners Up

Players in: Stuart Hogg (Full Back), Will Witty (Second Row), Tom Price (Second Row), Stan South (Utility Forward), Jannes Kirsten (Utility Forward), Jacques Vermeulen (Utility Forward)

Players out: Santiago Cordero (Wing/FB), Tom Lawday (Back Row), Moray Low (Prop), Ollie Atkins (Second Row), Mitch Lees (Second Row)


Gloucester
Last Season: 3rd

Players in: Joe Simpson (Scrum Half), Jamal Ford-Robinson (Prop), Chris Harris (Centre), Corne Fourie (Prop)
Promoted from Academy: Charlie Chapman, Alex Seville, Alex Craig, Ciaran Knight, Tom Seabrook, Henry Walker

Players out: Paddy McAllister (Prop), Gareth Denman (Prop), Kyle Traynor (Prop) Tom Savage (Second Row), Gareth Evans (Back Row), Ben Vellacott (Scrum Half), Henry Purdy (Centre/Wing)


Harlequins
Last Season 4th

Players in: Santiago Garcias Botta (Prop), Martin Landajo (Scrum Half), Michele Campagnaro (Centre), Scott Baldwin (Hooker), Stephan Lewies (Second Row), Glen Young (Second Row), Will Evans (Flanker), Simon Kerrod (Prop), Tom Lawday (Back Row), Travis Ismaiel (Wing), Veriniki Goneva (Wing), Tevita Cavubati (Second Row)

Players out: Alofa Alofa (Utility Back), George Merrick (Second Row), Lewis Boyce (Prop), James Horwill (Second Row), Josh Ibuanokpe (Prop), Tim Visser (Wing), Charlie Walker(Wing), Demitir Catrakilis (Fly Half), Mat Luamanu (Back Row), Luke Wallace (Flanker), Stan South (Second Row), Dave Ward (Hooker), Dave Lewis (Scrum Half), Ben Glynn (Second Row)


Leicester Tigers
Last season 11th

Players in: Jordan Taufua (Back Row), Noel Reid (Fly Half/Centre), Calum Green (Second Row), Jaco Taute (Centre), Tomas Lavanini (Second Row), Nephi Leatigaga (Prop), Charlie Clare (Hooker), Joe Thomas (Centre), Johnny McPhillips (Fly Half), EW Viljoen (Utility Back), Hanro Liebenberg (Back Row), Jordan Coghlan (Back Row)
Promoted from Academy: Tom Hardwicke, Joe Heyes, Sam Lewis, Jordan Olowefela, Tommy Reffell, Sam Aspland Robinson, Harry Simmons, Ben White

Players out: Matt Toomua (Centre), Mike Williams (Utility Forward), Graham Kitchener (Second Row), Mathew Tait (Utility Back), Will Evans (Flanker), Tom Varndell (Winger), James Voss (Second Row), Matt Smith (Centre), Gareth Owen (Centre), Michael Fitzgerald (Second Row), Brendon O'Connor (Back Row), Valentino Mapapalangi (Back Row), Fred Tuilagi (Back Row), Leonardo Sarto (Wing),  Joe Ford (Fly Half), David Feao (Prop), David Denton (Back Row), Ross McMillan (Hooker), Campese Ma'afu (Prop), Charlie Thacker (Centre)


London Irish
Last Season: Promoted

Players in: Allan Dell (Prop), Nick Phipps (Scrum Half), Curtis Rona (Wing), Sean O'Brien (Back Row), Sekope Kepu (Prop), Paddy Jackson (Fly Half), Waisake Naholo (Wing), Adam Coleman (Second Row), Ruan Botha (Second Row), Steve Mafi (Utility Forward), George Nott (Utility Forward)

Players Out: Josh McNally (Second Row), Ian Keatley (Fly Half), Brendan McKibbin (Centre), Mike Coman (Back Row), Tommy Bell (Utility Back), Topsy Ojo (Wing), Fergus Mulchrone (Centre), Luke McLean (Full Back), Sebastian de Chaves (Second Row), Ofisa Treviranus (Back Row), Greig Tonks (Utility Back),  Napolioni Nalaga (Wing), Sam Twomey (Second Row), Filo Paulo (Second Row), Manasa Saulo (Prop)


Northampton Saints
Last Season: 4th

Players in: Matt Proctor (Utility back), Owen Franks (Prop), Ryan Olowofela (Wing), Henry Taylor (Scrum Half), Michael van Vuuren (Hooker)
Promoted from Academy: Ehren Painter, Fraser Dingwall,  James Grayson,  Alex Mitchell,  Alex Moon

Players Out: Luther Burrell (Centre), Jamal Ford-Robinson (Prop), James Craig (Utility Forward), James Haskell (Back Row), Dominic Barrow (Second Row), Nafi Tuitavake (Wing), Ken Pisi (Centre)


Sale Sharks
Last Season: 7th

Players in: Jake Cooper-Woolley (Prop), Robert du Preez (Fly Half), Akker van der Merwe (Hooker), Lood de Jager (Second Row), Coenie Oosthuizen (Prop), Dan du Preez (Utility Forward), Jean-Luc du Preez (Back Row), Simon Hammersley (Full Back), Mark Wilson (Back Row)

Players Out: Andrei Ostrikov (Second Row), Mark Jennings (Centre), Alexandru Țăruș (Prop), Johnny Leota (Centre),  Paolo Odogwu (Wing), James O'Connor (Utility Back), Josh Strauss (Back Row), George Nott (Utility Forward)


Saracens
Last Season: Champions

Players in: Elliot Daly (Utility back), Rhys Carré (Prop), Jack Singleton (Hooker), Josh Ibuanokpe (Prop)
Promoted from Academy: Alistair Crossdale, Dominic Morris

Players out: Christopher Tolofua (Hooker), Sione Vailanu (Back Row), Hayden Thompson-Stringer (Prop), David Strettle (Wing), Henry Taylor (Scrum Half) Dominic Day (Second Row), Marcelo Bosch (Centre), Schalk Burger (Back Row)


Wasps
Last Season: 8th

Players in: Malakai Fekitoa (Centre), Jeffery Toomaga-Allen (Prop), Ben Vellacott (Scrum Half), Matteo Minozzi (Utility back), Sione Vailanu (Back row), Biyi Alo (Prop), Paolo Odogwu (Wing), Zach Kibirige (wing)
Promoted from academy:  Will Porter,  Callum Sirker,  Sam Spink,  Tom Willis,  Tim Cardall,  Gabriel Oghre,  Owain James, Jacob Umaga

Players out: Jake Cooper-Woolley (Prop), Nathan Hughes (Back row), Will Stuart (Prop), Elliot Daly (Centre), Joe Simpson (Scrum half), Willie le Roux (Full Back), Michele Campagnaro (Centre), Kearnan Myall (Second Row), Gabiriele Lovobalavu (Centre), Matt Mullan (Prop)


Worcester Warriors
Last Season 10th

Players in: Graham Kitchener (Second Row), Jono Kitto (Scrum Half), Melani Nanai (Wing), Ed Fidow (Wing)
Promoted from Academy: Andrew Kitchener,  Ted Hill

Players out:  Bryce Heem (Wing), Josh Adams (Wing), Darren Barry (Second Row), Wynand Olivier (Centre), Dewald Potgieter (Back row), Jack Singleton (Hooker), Jonny Arr (Scrum half), Carl Kirwan (Back row), Luke Baldwin (Scrum Half), Ben Te'o (Centre), Alafoti Fa'osiliva (Back row)

LondonTiger wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Such as?

Are you in a bubble? (probably a good place to be at the moment!)

I'm fully aware of the public health crisis. As a small business owner in hospitality I am in fact facing potential bankruptcy due to it.

What I'm not aware of is any report whatsoever that Sarries are being let off the hook as a consequence.

Best wishes KC. Perhaps we need Vetinari to sort things out. I am currently trying to  check if any of the measures outlined today are open to us. We are in a slightly better position than some and can probably pay our staff for about 3 months with no income.

If only our country could have someone with the long term vision of Vetinari. Would also require us to elect someone who had the interests of the country ahead of their own and who would enforce a similar level of thinking in big business.

Thankfully I'm lucky to be in a position where I can work from home for a company with international links and enough finance available to whether short term closures. We're still working but in sterile environments the concern over contamination is pretty high.

If anyone does have links to the Sarries story then please post it because at the minute the lack of non-Covid 19 stories is quite full.

RFU have ended the season for every level under the Premiership. Not confirmed whether Newcastle will be the team promoted as RFU say they need to agree the process for promotion and relegation for all leagues. It has been confirmed that Saracens will be relegated.

On the subject of Saracens, there was speculation in the less informed press that any scrapping of the premiership programme for this season may lead one or two clubs to fold. I am not sure how this would happen as they are due to receive £13M in revenue from the CVC sale. You never know, one or two owners might get cold feet and ditch.

However that would lead to an interesting position as if one did, presumably Saracens would not be relegated. You can imagine what certain clubs would say about that. You can tell that they put the punishment of Saracens and Saracens players, ahead of the performance of England, as can be seen by the Maro Itoje issue with the French club.

Also muted, was that Saracens may be able to challenge the decision as the season would be completed. Personally, I cannot see the later as they would probably have done it earlier as the penalty could be argued to be excessive and spiteful.

What about Saracens are not relegated, Falcons are promoted and the whole thing is then ringfenced....

GeordieFalcon wrote:What about Saracens are not relegated, Falcons are promoted and the whole thing is then ringfenced....

No problem with that for next season, (apart from Sarries getting away with it)  but how about from now on a play off with the bottom Prem team vs the top of championship, 90% - 95% of the time the Prem team should win, but this is sport, surprises do happen and it still gives Championship teams (and below) something to aim/plan for.

GeordieFalcon wrote:What about Saracens are not relegated, Falcons are promoted and the whole thing is then ringfenced....

A big question for Falcons and Sarries in that scenario would be squad planning.

Sarries have players going out on loan and being released in preparation for Championsip rugby.

As Falcons will have a lot of recruitment left you'd imagine and uncertainty won't help the situation.

I'm opposed to ring fencing for the usual reasons touted. I believe it would make the league worse, since Sarries having relegation confirmed we've seen change sides away from home and worse games in my opinion. I'd happily see two up two down relegation/promotion if it made for more meaningful matches across the whole season.

I say that being fully aware what it'd mean for Tigers recently as well. Were two up two down the case I'd wager that Tigers wouldn't being playing anywhere near the pish they are now. If they had then they'd be relegated forcing a necessary rebuild.

Sides taking every Prem game seriously might make all teams use the PRC as a development competition. Or even open up the possibility of a competitive A-league without the risk of one side having an average age of 22 and the other an average age of 30!

I used to say the only reason I'd want to see ring fencing is if it's for a limited time period (say 5 years) during which the RFU put money into the Championship to help build it as a league without a runaway winner each season. Look to seriously assist the Championship clubs who are trying to build their own academies and facilities. Then open it back up and give promotion/relegation a limited period again (say 5 years) to see if investment in the Championship has significantly improved it.

I take it then that Richmond will be promoted back to the Championship...although National One was a much closer league (near the top)!

What about promotion / relegation every 2 years?

GeordieFalcon wrote:What about promotion / relegation every 2 years?

My instinctive thought is that the season without promotion/relegation would be used very differently to the one without it.

I just really dislike the idea of a large number of games being used to rotate whole teams. I don't like when sides practically have a home game XV and away game XV. We've seen Sarries do that in a way since relegation was confirmed.

Wholesale rotation like that is bad for youngsters developing as well as the league in my opinion. If every game matters then good squad management will mean working youngsters into strong sides, first on the bench then put into established packs or back lines alongside first team players.

When games don't matter I often feel youngsters are thrown out in scratch sides getting fairly meaningless game time. I'd so much rather have every Prem game matter with young players getting vital minutes alongside internationals. Then a competitive PRC or A-league bridging the gap between that and age grade.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52302741

The defending Premiership champions want anyone earning more than £75,000 a year to defer anything above that amount until the start of 2020-21.

The majority of their staff on furlough as well.

Sarries and Falcons are thus far the PRL member clubs to take the most drastic steps financially but given the precarious financial state of the league as a whole I'd guess others will be forced to follow.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52634948

Tries can no longer be scored by grounding the ball against the posts, World Rugby has announced.

The increasing size of post protectors, for safety reasons, meant it had become "difficult for teams to legally defend this area", said the global governing body.

The change is effective immediately.

I believe Exeter were the first team to use this as a regular tactic in games?

Players had scored tries by grounding the ball on the post protectors before but Chiefs were the first team I saw who would intentionally attack the posts with pick and gos. Given the laws at the time it was a smart tactical call but unsurprising with coaches catching on that it's been changed.

GeordieFalcon wrote:What about promotion / relegation every 2 years? 

I'd rather see a play off between Championship winners Vs Premiership bottom club. If the Prem club can't compete then they go down. Implement that for a fixed period whilst the Championship stabilises and then revert to promotion and relegation?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52660540

So the auditing of stadiums begins. Does anyone else think it's a bit pointless to open up a stadium for games where there will be no fans? They want stadiums that have changing, medical and training facilities for multiple teams, which rules out most of the AP grounds. Even WR which could convert some of the conferencing rooms to accommodate more teams and has a hospital literally across the road has nowhere suitable for sides to warm up.

Similar to the Premier League Football deciding against using the ideal set up of St George's Park I'm surprised we aren't looking at a university set up. Loughborough University is centrally placed, as an AP quality synthetic pitch, elite level training facilities (it's the home of several sports body HQs) and a top level sports medicine department. Not to mention 16 halls of residence to house all the players, staff and officials. No income currently either so I'm sure they'd be desperate for the opportunity to generate some much needed funds.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/premiership-rugby-publishes-report-of-myners-review

Lord Myners review into the salary cap has been published. A good summary is in that article but the full report is available online. Recommendations include:

- Greater sanctions including suspensions and the removal of titles

- Greater accountability for the board and the executives of clubs

- Greater accountability for players and their agents

- Increased reporting obligations on clubs

- Stronger investigatory powers for salary cap managers and better funding to allow this

More accountability on executives, players and agents seems a good idea. I for one struggle to believe that the top players at Sarries weren't aware that actions were being taken to subvert the cap.

Increased reporting obligations is important as well. If you genuinely believe a benefit isn't salary then report it. If you don't honestly think a benefit falls outside the cap then it's pretty obvious why the salary cap manager wasn't informed.

and now those same Sarries players will earn big bucks overseas for a year and get to keep their winners medals.

Its disgusting. I hope League one teams boycott Sarries home games, lets see how many Sarries fans turn up each week.

If you get a chance read the whole thing.

One of my favourite parts was players being "loaned" out, so they don't count toward the cap, but never actually being told they have been loaned out and never actually leaving the club.

Impressive

Premiership Clubs agree to reduce the salary cap from £6.4m to £5m from July 2021 (with the academy credits increasing from £600k to £1m). Marquee players remain, but will drop to one per club for 22/23 season.

Provisions have been made for players who have already signed long term contracts. I hope there are not too many loopholes ready to be exploited.

The Times wrote:Premiership rugby clubs have voted to cut the salary cap from £7 million to £6 million over the course of the next two years in a bid to fix the league’s broken financial model.

There was division among the 13 owners heading into yesterday’s video meeting, with Bristol Bears the most vocal opponents of any cuts, but The Times understands the vote to impose a temporary reduction was unanimous.

The present salary cap is £6.4 million, with an additional £600,000 available in homegrown player credits. The base level of the cap is to fall to £5 million but the clubs will be able to earn an additional £1 million in credits. The new level will be implemented by July 2021. Dispensation will be built into the regulations for players under contracts signed before yesterday’s agreement whereby only 75 per cent of the salary would be counted.

The plan is for the cap to return to the present level by 2024 on the basis that Premiership Rugby, driven by its partners CVC, will have improved commercial revenues by then. That would require a vote.

The Times understands that the marquee player scheme — where the income of two star players sits outside the salary cap — has been retained but will be reduced to just one player for the 2022-23 season.

Premiership Rugby is due to outline all the details in an announcement this morning. Its plans to publish the agreement last night were pulled because clubs could not agree on the correct wording.

Exeter Chiefs were the only one of the 13 member clubs of Premiership Rugby Limited (PRL) to make a profit last year.

Lord Myners’s report into the Saracens salary cap scandal revealed the clubs collectively lost £89 million in two years. The coronavirus pandemic, which forced the season to be halted in March, has triggered a financial crisis, with clubs fearing they may go out of business. A 25 per cent pay cut was imposed on players and staff across the league and a majority of clubs were looking for the salary cap to be reduced by a similar amount.

In his report, Lord Myners also recommended that Premiership clubs review the marquee player scheme, blaming it for the league’s rapid wage inflation since 2013.

Bristol argued that lowering the salary cap and removing marquee players would damage the league’s box-office appeal and have an impact on its ability to generate commercial revenues and to compete on the European stage. Harlequins were supportive of the move to reduce the cap and stabilise finances. “We knew before Covid that the financial structure of rugby was fractured,” Laurie Dalrymple, the Harlequins chief executive, said.

Makes sense really. Most of the clubs are struggling to make any money and the wage inflation is getting out of hand. Hopefully we can retain our homegrown talent and the best of the overseas acquisitions and not fall (further) behind the best Irish and French clubs in Europe.

The Cap seems to low to me, losses are still going to happen and the player wages in France aren't going to drop. It might result in less imports but not sure if that is good for the league of one nation as you need imports to increase number of current internationals.

From a Pro14 view it reduces the pressure on keeping good team/squad players as they will be paid Simillar in England so why move from home.

A wage cap as a % of turnover might have been a better choice.

Brendan wrote:The Cap seems to low to me, losses are still going to happen and the player wages in France aren't going to drop.  It might result in less imports but not sure if that is good for the league of one nation as you need imports to increase number of current internationals.

From a Pro14 view it reduces the pressure on keeping good team/squad players as they will be paid Simillar in England so why move from home.

A wage cap as a % of turnover might have been a better choice.

The Top 14 quotas for French players in matchday 23 changing already seem to have had an impact on wages in France for overseas players to some extent.

Raising the cap and introducing two marquees seems to have driven wage inflation for the top players rather than improving squad quality and depth in my opinion.

I like the increasing of the academy ceiling as it will encourage clubs to given academy graduates longer to develop.

One example of the impact of marquee players on wage inflation:

Wasps - bring in Kurtley Beale on 750k (as well as Piutau on £1m rumoured). Joe Launchbury at contract renewal says hey I am worth more than £200k an gets his salary doubled. Gaskell says hey I am worth more than £100k and gets his salary doubled. This happens all through the club - but soon the overseas players have gone, replaced by Willy Le Roux on a fortune and all the other players continue to demand higher wages.

LondonTiger wrote:One example of the impact of marquee players on wage inflation:

Wasps - bring in Kurtley Beale on 750k (as well as Piutau on £1m rumoured). Joe Launchbury at contract renewal says hey I am worth more than £200k an gets his salary doubled. Gaskell says hey I am worth more than £100k and gets his salary doubled. This happens all through the club - but soon the overseas players have gone, replaced by Willy Le Roux on a fortune and all the other players continue to demand higher wages.

Good examples there LT. Similar at Tigers with Manu getting a gigantic salary as marquee, hence Ford expects similar, etc. Genge as well is on a gigantic contract from next season. Brilliant players all of them but salaries of that level just aren't sustainable in rugby yet.

Interestingly the Jonny May situation, happening prior to the pandemic, suggests that wage inflation was beginning to end though. Despite being one of the most effective finishers in rugby currently he was offered circa £225k by Tigers then rumoured to have signed for Gloucester for around £300k.

I like the sound of the way the wage cap is being reworked, with more Acadamy credits available and working to remove the marquee players.

I wouldn't mind seeing a similar cap being introduced in the Pro 14, with a push from the Engilsh and Pro 14 Unions to make it worldwide.
Personally I think that the acamady credits could be reworked a bit where say only 70% of the wage of someone who has come through the Acadamy is counted towards the cap, that way it helps teams that have developed a player to keep hold of them. It would make it more difficult for teams to buy success like Toulon, as effectively they would only have 70% of the wage bill compared to a team with 100% Acadamy developed players.

There would need to be checks and balances, as it would create a lot of competation with teams trying to sign academy players, maybe add a rule that only players growing up within 100 miles of the stadium count? Also do not count if non union edigable when signed, to prevent teams moving the whole family of promising overseas players to their area? Or other such measures.

Time the Chiefs changed their name booooo.

TightHEAD wrote:Time the Chiefs changed their name booooo.

isn't the obvious compromise to lose the Native American styling and instead take more "Celtic" approach there must be a west country equivalent of CuChullain or Owain Glyndower that could be adopted - like Glasgow use the Highland Warrior logo?

Irish Londoner wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Time the Chiefs changed their name booooo.

isn't the obvious compromise to lose the Native American styling and instead take more "Celtic" approach there must be a west country equivalent of CuChullain or Owain Glyndower that could be adopted - like Glasgow use the Highland Warrior logo?

I heard the options which are available in the Devon area didn't like outsiders and possibly held racist views.

TightHEAD wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Time the Chiefs changed their name booooo.

isn't the obvious compromise to lose the Native American styling and instead take more "Celtic" approach there must be a west country equivalent of CuChullain or Owain Glyndower that could be adopted - like Glasgow use the Highland Warrior logo?

I heard the options which are available in the Devon area didn't like outsiders and possibly held racist views.

I found Devon pretty friendly - outside of the loads of money Londoners buying up seaside homes

So Bath' s opening fixture list starts with London Irish on Saturday 15th August and then Leicester, followed by Northampton and then Wasps on the 31st August. Good luck with that, makes me wince thinking about it.....
Presumably squeezing in these games in order to accommodate Test matches, as presumably EJ will want access to players in the latter half of September to prepare for a run of matches in Oct/Nov.
Then the new season starts ! Something is going to give and presumably it will be the clubs losing access to their players, being either injured or broken.....

To be fair I think the fixtures being so congested is more to do with wanting to keep next season as close to a normal schedule as possible. Obviously it will be effected significantly but they are trying to mitigate it. Internationals aren't due until the Autumn Internationals at earliest I thought.

Also worth noting that BT made the final payment for this seasons broadcasting rights early and in full to support the clubs whilst they had no income. Given BT had nothing to broadcast I think a few people were expecting delayed payment at best. So I think a part of getting these games on behind closed doors is repaying that faith from BT by actually giving them something to broadcast in return for that early payment they made to support the clubs.

Also players should be going into these set of compressed matches as healthy as they are ever liable to be. They have had a few months for the niggles to go away.

I actually think that clubs being forced to rotate and give the youngsters a go could lead to some really exciting rugby.

As a Tigers fan I can certainly say that I'd rather watch us lose by 20odd points to 30 whilst giving the former/current U20 talents a go than watch us lose 17-6 with our squad players offering a more in defence but all the attacking intent of a napping puppy.

And yet we wont have played a game from March to November (if thats when the season starts)

king_carlos wrote:I actually think that clubs being forced to rotate and give the youngsters a go could lead to some really exciting rugby.

As a Tigers fan I can certainly say that I'd rather watch us lose by 20odd points to 30 whilst giving the former/current U20 talents a go than watch us lose 17-6 with our squad players offering a more in defence but all the attacking intent of a napping puppy.

This is really now a long pre-season for the 11 clubs staying in the Premiership - or at least those like us with bugger all to play for. I hope we use it well.

king_carlos wrote:To be fair I think the fixtures being so congested is more to do with wanting to keep next season as close to a normal schedule as possible. Obviously it will be effected significantly but they are trying to mitigate it. Internationals aren't due until the Autumn Internationals at earliest I thought.

Also worth noting that BT made the final payment for this seasons broadcasting rights early and in full to support the clubs whilst they had no income. Given BT had nothing to broadcast I think a few people were expecting delayed payment at best. So I think a part of getting these games on behind closed doors is repaying that faith from BT by actually giving them something to broadcast in return for that early payment they made to support the clubs.

The rescheduled rugby season nicely starts just as the football season finishes as well if I remember rightly. Would make BT happy to be able to keep live sport on their channels. Every game likely to be televised which is what they've done with the football. So that could mean some extra payments to cover the additional games which is I think what the Prem agreed with some being free to air.

There may be some spectators allowed but the numbers will heavily restricted.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/championship-clubs-aim-for-independent-league-xhjx09vb9?shareToken=8222dcc5f6d6f7c8588f0c7c32a8cb6c

The Championship sides looking to set-up a ringfenced league of their own to build longer term financial stability.

- 16 team Championship ringfenced
- Split into 2 8 team conferences to reduce games, improve player welfare
- Playoffs and grand final to decide the winner
- No promotion to Premiership
- Initially no relegation to National 1 but would hope to expand to include leagues below, hence acting as the top level of the national league system

The Prem would be a ringfenced 13 team competition pretty much by default which is coming anyway.

I really don't like the idea of ring fencing but if it does happen I hope the RFU invest in the tier below with the hope of opening things back up again in 5 years time with it hopefully being more competitive.

Indefinite ring fencing will just lead to meaningless games with sides resting half their first XV away from home for games they wont care about prioritising.

Is a 13 team league not going to cause more problems with people giving out about when their team gets rest weeks. Would the reason for keeping it at 13 be down to player depth, PRL members or finances.

I know Ealing are trying to get into the Premership.and would appear to have the financial backing. But I have no idea how their facilities, support or long term plan is. I know they are compeditive but still not good enough to match the 13th best team of the PRL so not sure if they could be compeditive for the whole season. They also wouldn't have an RFU academy which would also handicap them.

[quote="Brendan"]Is a 13 team league not going to cause more problems with people giving out about when their team gets rest weeks.  Would the reason for keeping it at 13 be down to player depth, PRL members or finances.

I know Ealing are trying to get into the Premership.and would appear to have the financial backing.  But I have no idea how their facilities, support or long term plan is.  I know they are compeditive but still not good enough to match the 13th best team of the PRL so not sure if they could be compeditive for the whole season.  They also wouldn't have an RFU academy which would also handicap them.[/quote

I think when the CVC money has come in will probably drive another wedge between the shareholder clubs and top Championship clubs. The CVC money will be strutting up a few Prem clubs, the Championship clubs have taken a hammering financially with little back stop. The RFU had already pulled a lot of funding before this.

BT also paid out the final installment of their broadcast deal for this season in full and earl to support the Prem clubs. So they will have that bit of income as well.

Other posters are more knowledgeable than me with these matters though.

Do the games start up again this weekend?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Do the games start up again this weekend?

Friday.

FRIDAY 14TH AUGUST
19:45 Harlequins v Sale

SATURDAY 15TH AUGUST
12:30 Worcester Warriors v Gloucester
14:00 Exeter Chiefs v Leicester Tigers
15:00 Bath v London Irish
16:30 Bristol v Saracens


SUNDAY 16TH AUGUST
15:00 Northampton Saints v Wasps

Ruck are saying that another Premiership club is under investigation about over spending on the salary cap. If this is so and they prove to be right I can see that club going out of business. They would be forced to introduce fines that were akin to those Saracens received and relegation. Anything else would lead to them being accused of discrimination and a hefty law suit to back it up. Quite right as well.

Very few clubs could pay that sort of fine, get relegated and have no crowd income for the foreseeable future.

There have been a few small admin over runs for other clubs (Wasps and Quins I think) that resulted in small fines recently.

Any punishment would likely still be linked to the crime itself. Assuming there is one.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Ruck are saying that another Premiership club is under investigation about over spending on the salary cap. If this is so and they prove to be right I can see that club going out of business. They would be forced to introduce fines that were akin to those Saracens received and relegation. Anything else would lead to them being accused of discrimination and a hefty law suit to back it up. Quite right as well.

Very few clubs could pay that sort of fine, get relegated and have no crowd income for the foreseeable future.

Depends on the severity of the break to be fair. Sarries broke the cap for 6 seasons in a row by my understanding? Twice for the years when 'two undisclosed clubs' got fines just before the cap went up. Then the 3 seasons that the Dyson investigation covered. Finally this season when they refused to open their books up for a full audit.

The sanction for the 3 years Dyson investigated was 35 points and a huge fine. Then another 35 points (basically automatic relegation) was docked for refusing to open their books for the current season.

Whilst a cap break on the same severity would require as severe a punishment the Sarries indiscretions were huge and over many years.

Given all the clubs recently agreed to a cap reduction I'd guess this investigation is into previous seasons. We discussed it briefly on the Sarries salary cap thread. Quins were meant to be right up to the cap when Marler, Robshaw, Care, Brown, Horwill and Roberts were all big earners. Bath have always spent a lot under Bruce Craig.

Some rumours it might be Chiefs. There have been rumours about Rowe hiding some Exeter expenditure in SWComms for years. Nothing to back it up as of yet. Their senior squad is gigantic though.

LondonTiger wrote:FRIDAY 14TH AUGUST
19:45 Harlequins v Sale

SATURDAY 15TH AUGUST
12:30 Worcester Warriors v Gloucester
14:00 Exeter Chiefs v Leicester Tigers
15:00 Bath v London Irish
16:30 Bristol v Saracens


SUNDAY 16TH AUGUST
15:00 Northampton Saints v Wasps

Most of these should be good games. Bristol and Sarries will be interesting to see how McCall is going to treat the season European Rugby aside.

Whilst overall I'm really happy with Tigers recruitment on and off the pitch, I am not looking forward to that game on Saturday much. We are still waiting on Mamukashvili (isolating in UK), Gigena (visa), Murimurivalue (visa), Kobus van Wyk (visa), Moroni (joining for 2020/21), Brink (rehabbing), Wiese (joining for 2020/21). A lot of good recruitment but still waiting on most of it.

Chiefs on the other hand have a near full strength squad raring to go and a Prem title to play for. Plus they are at home.

1.Hepburn 2.Cowan-Dickie 3.Williams 4.Hill 5.Gray 6.Vermeulen 7.Armand 8.Simmonds
9.Maunder 10.Simmonds 11.Nowell 12.Devoto 13.Slade 14.O'Flaherty 15.Hogg

16.Yeandle 17.Moon 18.Francis 19.Kirsten 20.Ewers 21.Maunder 22.Steenson 23.Dollman

Checking the Chiefs unoffy and their team predictions are along those lines.    

From a Tigers perspective I hope the rest of this season just sees a significant improvement in the attack structures and lineout under Borthwick. Seeing the youngsters get game time should be a given when we are missing a lot of first XV signings.

Shame I was hoping we'd have Murimurivalu ready for this. We have been less than the sum of our parts for too long. Some structure and fight keeping the score close and I'll be happy.

Genge, Youngs, Cole
Lavanini, Enever
Liebenburg, Taufua, Reffell
Youngs Ford
Scott, Taute
Nadolo, Worth, Owolfela

Kerr, Leatigaga, Heyes, Wells, Wallace, White, Henry, Potter/Porter

Should be enough to make it a game. I'll be happy with a LBP.

Manu selected to make his debut for Sale, alongside only four additional English players.

Ill be interested to see if Marchants little stint away has brought his game on at all...

Two good teams, should be a good game. You're right though GF it'll be interesting to see what Marchant brings to the table and I'm sure Eddie will be watching the Manu Vs Marchant battle with interest.

Is that a 6/2 bench for Quins?