If the Lions were picked today...

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Post by Guest on Thu 14 Nov 2019, 10:34 am

First topic message reminder :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/50411698

Apparently Gatland is picking his team around Jamie George, Maro Itoje, Tom Curry, Manu Tuilagi, an Anthony Watson.

Welsh hat well and truly gone...

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Post by RDW on Fri 15 Nov 2019, 10:02 pm

It pretty much works for everyone but you! We've literally looked through every setting possible on the forum and can't find any reason why you can't report or foe list people.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 15 Nov 2019, 10:08 pm

Ha. Brill. I'll try to ignore what could be the insights on players and merely report the personal insults then.

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Post by Guest on Fri 15 Nov 2019, 11:11 pm

Please do try and make it work. If he can't resist the temptation then it seems essential.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 8:42 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Currently no Ireland player would be in the reckoning for Lions selection.
No doubt when the time comes, the money grabbers organisers will have to exercise some token picks to justify using the 'British and Irish' moniker - step up James Ryan and Jordan Larmour to boost the shirt and ticket sales.

Ah jeepers of course they would. James Ryan is almost a certainty. There will be others.

Sorry Guns, you're right of course - Ryan and others would be selected because I'd forgotten for a second that the Lions aren't selected on merit.

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Post by Guest on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 10:15 am

Ryan would be struggling to make the squad at present. Behind AWJ, Itoje, Lawes, Kruis, and possibly even Jake Ball on recent form. Given Cory Hill's efforts in the 6 Nations and Launchbury's club form that's more competition. He's been around the level Jonny Gray has for Scotland. In reality, he's definitely behind Itoje, AWJ, and Lawes. Horses for course with Kruis. Furlong's the only Irishman who starts in a Lions 15 as I see it. Maybe Stockdale if they want a strike running winger but you probably go for May over Stockdale, and Watson and North over both, with Adams in with a shout. Aki's a poor man's Tuilagi, Larmour an unproven Hogg...puts thngs in perspective for Ireland I think. Sexton's the only other one and, on form, right now, at 34, he might just bump out Farrell and Ford (and Biggar and Russell) at the 10 shirt. Might.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 12:10 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Currently no Ireland player would be in the reckoning for Lions selection.
No doubt when the time comes, the money grabbers organisers will have to exercise some token picks to justify using the 'British and Irish' moniker - step up James Ryan and Jordan Larmour to boost the shirt and ticket sales.

Ah jeepers of course they would. James Ryan is almost a certainty. There will be others.

Sorry Guns, you're right of course - Ryan and others would be selected because I'd forgotten for a second that the Lions aren't selected on merit.

Nah, Ryan has been consistently one of the top locks in world rugby for a few years now. The fact that Ireland had a crap RWC doesnt change that.

For me the Lions is selected on merit but that just means in my view that the coach selects the 15 players that he feels will make the best team even if that meant Gatland went with Welsh guys on occasion for the most part they were at the same level as the ones that didnt make it.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 12:12 pm

miaow wrote:Ryan would be struggling to make the squad at present. Behind AWJ, Itoje, Lawes, Kruis, and possibly even Jake Ball on recent form. Given Cory Hill's efforts in the 6 Nations and Launchbury's club form that's more competition. He's been around the level Jonny Gray has for Scotland. In reality, he's definitely behind Itoje, AWJ, and Lawes. Horses for course with Kruis. Furlong's the only Irishman who starts in a Lions 15 as I see it. Maybe Stockdale if they want a strike running winger but you probably go for May over Stockdale, and Watson and North over both, with Adams in with a shout. Aki's a poor man's Tuilagi, Larmour an unproven Hogg...puts thngs in perspective for Ireland I think. Sexton's the only other one and, on form, right now, at 34, he might just bump out Farrell and Ford (and Biggar and Russell) at the 10 shirt. Might.

AWJ definitely should not make the next tour as much as I like him. Jake Ball and Hill are not at Lions test level. They arent in the same league as Ryan.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 12:13 pm

Careful Collapse, you are about to be 'disagreed' with...

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Post by Guest on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 1:01 pm

We're talking about hypotheticals based on the now, Guns. I would agree that AWJ has a job on his hands to make the tour in 2 years' time.

Also, watch out. Mikey sounds threatening.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 1:17 pm

Go over to the rugby league forums and see the meltdown people are having over their Lions being the England team with one Irish bloke ( and getting humped by PNG)

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Post by Guest on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 2:18 pm

Sounds like what Union might be like in about 20 years tbh...

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 7:45 pm

Think I might start a new article. ‘The Bok side if picked today vs the Lions’.

Laugh

Scrape that barrel a bit more...

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Post by westisbest on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 11:18 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Currently no Ireland player would be in the reckoning for Lions selection.
No doubt when the time comes, the money grabbers organisers will have to exercise some token picks to justify using the 'British and Irish' moniker - step up James Ryan and Jordan Larmour to boost the shirt and ticket sales.

Ah jeepers of course they would. James Ryan is almost a certainty. There will be others.

I’m hoping the likes of Furlong, JVDF,  Ryan, Stockdake, Ringrose, Larmour, Carberry make it.

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Post by Guest on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 7:41 am

Taylorman wrote:Think I might start a new article. ‘The Bok side if picked today vs the Lions’.

Laugh

Scrape that barrel a bit more...

That sounds like an excellent idea.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 10:45 am

westisbest wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Currently no Ireland player would be in the reckoning for Lions selection.
No doubt when the time comes, the money grabbers organisers will have to exercise some token picks to justify using the 'British and Irish' moniker - step up James Ryan and Jordan Larmour to boost the shirt and ticket sales.

Ah jeepers of course they would. James Ryan is almost a certainty. There will be others.

I’m hoping the likes of Furlong, JVDF,  Ryan, Stockdake, Ringrose, Larmour, Carberry make it.
I'm hoping no Irish player gets selected, as Lion's tours are very destructive to the Ireland team, and nh rugby in general.

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Post by Guest on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 10:51 am

They do tend to help Ireland win 6 Nations the year after though, Ausker. 2014, 2018...what odds on 2022?

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 11:53 am

Thought that was France? They are just coming out of their blip and with no players involved in Circus21 - 2022 will be their's for the taking.

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Post by Guest on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 11:58 am

It would be France but they've been sewage for a decade. Won it in 2006 and 2010 but then decided to take a Frexit from modern rugby. You might be right though. Perhaps all the more reason for Irish players to focus on success with the Lions?

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 5:05 pm

That’s funny, we thought the same about Wales, was the same again this year. Easy beats yet again. Wales come here next year. Hopefully they can put up some sort of a contest. Doubt it though. Pivacs not a miracle maker.

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Post by The Oracle on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 7:43 pm

Taylorman wrote:That’s funny, we thought the same about Wales, was the same again this year. Easy beats yet again. Wales come here next year. Hopefully they can put up some sort of a contest. Doubt it though. Pivacs not a miracle maker.

Congrats on winning the losers match medal at the recent WC! Over the moon for you. I saw you boys busting a gut to win. Kudos. Wales, while well beaten, couldn’t give a xxxx in that dead rubber!

On a side note, I love how you moan about everyone importing NZ coaching talent but never acknowledge when that coaching talent is poor and doesn’t produce the results! You need to sharpen up on your exports. These kiwi coaches are rubbish.
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Post by Taylorman on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 10:10 pm

The Oracle wrote:
Taylorman wrote:That’s funny, we thought the same about Wales, was the same again this year. Easy beats yet again. Wales come here next year. Hopefully they can put up some sort of a contest. Doubt it though. Pivacs not a miracle maker.

Congrats on winning the losers match medal at the recent WC! Over the moon for you. I saw you boys busting a gut to win. Kudos. Wales, while well beaten, couldn’t give a xxxx in that dead rubber!

On a side note, I love how you moan about everyone importing NZ coaching talent but never acknowledge when that coaching talent is poor and doesn’t produce the results! You need to sharpen up on your exports. These kiwi coaches are rubbish.

Well if people can call sides 'sewage' then that opens that book on the subject. But point taken, between Gats and Schmidt theyve both won Grand slams and have taken them to world number one.

But in terms of their coaching methods, and Jones is similar, they seem to have adopted a different style of play that best caters to the NH mindset, which is in a lot of cases has become negative and boring. If the north are going to be so resource rich they need to open their minds up to what is possible in this game. Schmidt for example didnt muck around, he completely shut down all creativity over the years because that's what got the results. They can only work with what theyve got. England according to Jones spent two years plotting the Ab downfall.

Nothing wrong with that, but that blew up in his face as well. Their effort and energy spent on NZ left them unable to mount a third knockout match vs SA.

Yeah 3rd place was a bit of a non event but you'd think Wales would want to get something out of ridding a 31 test straight loss- doesnt get more 'sewage' material than that in terms of the terminology acceptable here does it? thumbsup (In fact it actually doesnt, that must be a tier one record of head to head losses surely).

Now they head to NZ next year for two tests after an AB Scotland warmup. New coaches, new players in both sides.

Gats has a huge challenge when he gets back, the first obvious one being to embrace further the need to open the game up and attack more, simply because, rightly or wrongly...thats how WE play. He needs to cater to the way NZers like to play his game and after the time he's been away he's bound to be in for a few surprises.

His overseas knowledge will help, but it also may hinder his being able to get with the NZ style, which can be very unforgiving even a few matches into the tournament proper.

He probably has one of the better squads mind you, so there is that.

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Post by 123456789. on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 10:28 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
miaow wrote:Ryan would be struggling to make the squad at present. Behind AWJ, Itoje, Lawes, Kruis, and possibly even Jake Ball on recent form. Given Cory Hill's efforts in the 6 Nations and Launchbury's club form that's more competition. He's been around the level Jonny Gray has for Scotland. In reality, he's definitely behind Itoje, AWJ, and Lawes. Horses for course with Kruis. Furlong's the only Irishman who starts in a Lions 15 as I see it. Maybe Stockdale if they want a strike running winger but you probably go for May over Stockdale, and Watson and North over both, with Adams in with a shout. Aki's a poor man's Tuilagi, Larmour an unproven Hogg...puts thngs in perspective for Ireland I think. Sexton's the only other one and, on form, right now, at 34, he might just bump out Farrell and Ford (and Biggar and Russell) at the 10 shirt. Might.

AWJ definitely should not make the next tour as much as I like him. Jake Ball and Hill are not at Lions test level. They arent in the same league as Ryan.

I find this view confusing, I'd say at the moment the players right in the mixer would be Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Launchbury, AWJ and Ryan, with Launchbury coming in last. In the sort of follow up group I'd have the Grays, Skinner, Ball etc. Then there's any bolters coming through. They'll be massive drop offs in the groups from one or two players that's a fact of rugby and as an older player AWJ will be more prone but we've seen older players go longer. Brad Thorn was 36 when he won the world cup. But then Huw Jones was, arguably, the form 13 in international rugby in 2017-2018, now he can't make the Glasgow squad for the biggest games and he's in the middle of his career. There's also the fact he's Welsh and that will help. Gatland has known him for almost his entire international career. If he's good enough to be in the mixer, then he'll be in the squad.

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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 7:15 am

Taylorman wrote:That’s funny, we thought the same about Wales

Still with the 'we'? It's tragic, honestly.

Either way N E W Z E A L A N D used their win/loss record to determine who to prioritise, and got it horribly wrong by overestimating Ireland and underestimating England. It's almost like one nation's results don't matter too much, and it's more reliable to use the fact France have been dunk against most teams as well as Wales, rather than Ireland beating the All Blacks in the same season they got smashed by Wales, well beaten by England, and then utterly manshamed by England in the warm ups.

Either way, please try your best to stay on topic.

Not only is there a NZ thread where you can talk about NZ, we're all still waiting on your South Africa team to face the Lions thread.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 7:30 am

Yes, Wales tour should be great. Lions not so sure. Think they might be in trouble. I mean will Gats even care by then? Really odd choice now he’s not even going to be in the same hemisphere.

He’d be more concerned if his Chiefs side doesn’t perform and he’s got to hand those reins over while he dabbles abroad. Fancy having to fly in a coach. Weird.

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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 7:34 am

I know other players think Gatland prefers Welsh players, but he really, really doesn't. You'll see that in 2 years time. He prefers physical and dependable players who can be easily coached to stick to the gameplan - which, surely, we can agree has mostly paid off where Schmidtball didn't - and Wales happened to produce a load of players like that, with Gatland bringing some through where other national coaches didn't. You can guarantee that Hartley would have been first name on the England team sheet for years while Lancaster was p1ssing about with Tom Youngs, for instance.

Now, Wales aren't bringing through an obvious crop of 'Gatland-esque' players, are likely to go back to a more mobile running game, and I imagine we'll see a largely English team line up in the first test v SA.

We've seen what SA's strengths are. We've had ridiculous comments about their pack being true to the official stats etc. England are the only team that look capable of matching SA's bulk and power, but they got it horribly wrong in the final. If you add a Furlong here, and an AWJ there, you'll likely end up with the Lions team if you lift the English side of the next 2 years straight in. If it were a different coach, I'd argue it might be more mixed, but Gatland is Gatland. This whole thread is about Gatland talking about the Lions team as he would hypothetically select if it the tour were 'now'. It's entirely possibly Tuilagi isn't even playing rugby in 2 yeras' time. It's possibly Underhill/Curry will be injured based on how they play. We may well have 3-4 breakthrough players who prove their worth. But as of right now, I can't look past the power England have - that blew Ireland away, twice; and even NZ, while only Wales (and Gatland) had the nous to use their power against them, something that nearly paid off against SA while they were getting battered by them as well. I don't see too many Irish players being better than their English counterparts, unfortunately; James Ryan included.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 7:42 am

It’s becoming a bit of a joke. That the Lions coach will be coaching in NZ next year and which part of the tour year lord knows.

Best thing going for him is he’ll have picked some pointers up here from Super rugby and watching SA during the RC I guess.

He won’t be there for next years Six N, nor the AIs but will see Wales and Scotland in NZ. Does he pop over for the 21 6N or is a Sky subscription enough to keep in touch? Very Happy

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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 7:52 am

Chiefs agreed to it, shows how much they value Gatland. Take it up with them.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 8:02 am

Oh doesn’t worry me, he can do what he wants. I’m surprised the Lions agreed to it. Being in another hemisphere for the entire year immediately before a Lions tour is acceptable? Must be an easy gig huh? Draw names out of a hat perhaps.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 8:14 am

I do not think Gatland prefers Welsh players, nor though that he selected them because they fit his plan physically. I simply believe that like most coached when faced with the challenge of creating a team in a ridiculously short time favours guys he knows and builds on an existing core.

This is why I believe that the core of the XV to face SA will be based on a single country. I would not want to decide now who that will be.

It should also be noted that Gatland also selected Tom Youngs, and Lancaster only started Youngs 5 times ahead of Hartley. The rest of the time Hartley was either the starter, injured or suspended.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 8:14 am

Taylorman wrote:Oh doesn’t worry me, he can do what he wants. I’m surprised the Lions agreed to it. Being in another hemisphere for the entire year immediately before a Lions tour is acceptable? Must be an easy gig huh? Draw names out of a hat perhaps.

Ask Graham Henry if it was easy.

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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 8:58 am

He'll be on Lions duty from November 2020. Best part of a year to prepare with two full NH campaigns to review without the distraction of club rugby. Surprised the Chiefs agreed to it more than anything.

Either way, what's the betting on Shaun Edwards being defence coach? I'd say quite high. I imagine the attack coach might be someone new. Could be Stephen Jones at this point if it's not a Kiwi.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:02 am

How many qualified Kiwis would make the current Lions squad? Parkes and Anscombe would be pushing it a bit, Hartleys retired, even the Scotts aren't pretending Maitland would make it as a token now (theres a couple of other kiwis in their squad too right?).  I doubt Shields would even if fit. 
Bundee Aki ?

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:31 am

miaow wrote:He'll be on Lions duty from November 2020. Best part of a year to prepare with two full NH campaigns to review without the distraction of club rugby. Surprised the Chiefs agreed to it more than anything.

Either way, what's the betting on Shaun Edwards being defence coach? I'd say quite high. I imagine the attack coach might be someone new. Could be Stephen Jones at this point if it's not a Kiwi.

Lions are About June? Nov 20 to June 21 is only a few months surely. And for most of that the six nations aren’t doing anything. Surely a debacle.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:32 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Oh doesn’t worry me, he can do what he wants. I’m surprised the Lions agreed to it. Being in another hemisphere for the entire year immediately before a Lions tour is acceptable? Must be an easy gig huh? Draw names out of a hat perhaps.

Ask Graham Henry if it was easy.

Well kinda my point. Would have been worse if Henry spent all of 2000 coaching in NZ.

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Post by Old Man on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:38 am

The Oracle wrote:

Congrats on winning the losers match medal at the recent WC! Over the moon for you. I saw you boys busting a gut to win. Kudos. Wales, while well beaten, couldn’t give a xxxx in that dead rubber.

I find that disingenuous and quite laughable.

Really?

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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:42 am

Taylorman wrote:
miaow wrote:He'll be on Lions duty from November 2020. Best part of a year to prepare with two full NH campaigns to review without the distraction of club rugby. Surprised the Chiefs agreed to it more than anything.

Either way, what's the betting on Shaun Edwards being defence coach? I'd say quite high. I imagine the attack coach might be someone new. Could be Stephen Jones at this point if it's not a Kiwi.

Lions are About June? Nov 20 to June 21 is only a few months surely. And for most of that the six nations aren’t doing anything. Surely a debacle.

Let's count along - get all your fingers and toes ready...here we go, kids...

"1...November
2...December
3...January
4...February
5...March
6...April
7...May
8...June..."

8 months. Best part of a year.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:42 am

Gooseberry wrote:How many qualified Kiwis would make the current Lions squad? Parkes and Anscombe would be pushing it a bit, Hartleys retired, even the Scotts aren't pretending Maitland would make it as a token now (theres a couple of other kiwis in their squad too right?).  I doubt Shields would even if fit. 
Bundee Aki ?

Not too many hopefully. If any youve named make it it would be a pretty lightweight team alright. Our better players there don’t qualify. Piutau, Luatua...Piutaus certainly good enough, luatua can be handy at times.

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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:45 am

Gooseberry wrote:How many qualified Kiwis would make the current Lions squad? Parkes and Anscombe would be pushing it a bit, Hartleys retired, even the Scotts aren't pretending Maitland would make it as a token now (theres a couple of other kiwis in their squad too right?).  I doubt Shields would even if fit. 
Bundee Aki ?

The only one I can think of might be Johnny McNicholl, who hasn't actually played for Wales yet, to do a similar job to Maitland in 2013. Stander would be in with a shout. Can't think of too many more off the top of my head that you haven't mentioned. Maybe a prop I'm not thinking of, or another uncapped player who's in the running (couple of Saffers at Edinburgh aren't there?). Otherwise yeah, probably Aki and that's about it. Think Aki would tour ahead of Parkes for South Africa. The 12 options would be Aki and Tuilagi, with Farrell covering there. JD2 and...eesh...Joseph? Slade? Ringrose? Henshaw? As the last centre slot. Tough one.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:45 am

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
miaow wrote:He'll be on Lions duty from November 2020. Best part of a year to prepare with two full NH campaigns to review without the distraction of club rugby. Surprised the Chiefs agreed to it more than anything.

Either way, what's the betting on Shaun Edwards being defence coach? I'd say quite high. I imagine the attack coach might be someone new. Could be Stephen Jones at this point if it's not a Kiwi.

Lions are About June? Nov 20 to June 21 is only a few months surely. And for most of that the six nations aren’t doing anything. Surely a debacle.

Let's count along - get all your fingers and toes ready...here we go, kids...

"1...November
2...December
3...January
4...February
5...March
6...April
7...May
8...June..."

8 months. Best part of a year.

Exactly, and December and January there’s no tests, nor April to June. So yeah. Half of that is watching club rugby.
Some prep.

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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:46 am

Taylorman wrote:
miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
miaow wrote:He'll be on Lions duty from November 2020. Best part of a year to prepare with two full NH campaigns to review without the distraction of club rugby. Surprised the Chiefs agreed to it more than anything.

Either way, what's the betting on Shaun Edwards being defence coach? I'd say quite high. I imagine the attack coach might be someone new. Could be Stephen Jones at this point if it's not a Kiwi.

Lions are About June? Nov 20 to June 21 is only a few months surely. And for most of that the six nations aren’t doing anything. Surely a debacle.

Let's count along - get all your fingers and toes ready...here we go, kids...

"1...November
2...December
3...January
4...February
5...March
6...April
7...May
8...June..."

8 months. Best part of a year.

Exactly, and December and January there’s no tests, nor April to June. So yeah. Half of that is watching club rugby.
Some prep.

Have...have you...wait...errr...have you not heard of...video...?

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:54 am

Yep, as I said, just give him a Sky subscription. He can watch from his Jaccuzi in Hamilton. No need to actually engage with the players when you can do that. This has got bad news written all over it. ‘Hang on dear, just gotta pop down the road and coach a Lions tour’...back soon. thumbsup

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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 10:17 am

LondonTiger wrote:I do not think Gatland prefers Welsh players, nor though that he selected them because they fit his plan physically. I simply believe that like most coached when faced with the challenge of creating a team in a ridiculously short time favours guys he knows and builds on an existing core.

This is why I believe that the core of the XV to face SA will be based on a single country. I would not want to decide now who that will be.

It should also be noted that Gatland also selected Tom Youngs, and Lancaster only started Youngs 5 times ahead of Hartley. The rest of the time Hartley was either the starter, injured or suspended.

Also a fair point, and also why it will be English-dominated unless they completely fall apart in 2020/21. It's partly about who he knows, yes, but it's also about who the other players know.

I'd expect it to be about 60% English with any split of 40% coming from Ireland and Wales. Could be 30%/10%, could be 20%/20%. I cannot see a Scot getting in the 23 at this point, tbh. Darcy Graham, Hamish Watson, Fraser Brown...lots of competition in their places.

A fair point on Hartley that I didn't know. I did know that Hartley was banned, ofc, for 2013, and 2015, yet the fact there was even debate about who to pick of the two is pretty revealing of the coaching mistakes of Lancaster. It's not retrospective, I genuinely thought it for years, probably around 2011ish - Hartley's great. EJ got that right and two 6Ns followed. Generally, though, the point was on coaching 'errors' at international level. Townsend seems like a 60% coach - doesn't 'get' what it takes to win ugly etc., thinks the 10 decides the game. It hampers any Scottish players' chances tbh. Lancaster was flawed. Even Schmidt got it wrong over the last 2 years - the Murray/Sexton reliance was insane. People criticise Gatland's selection policies/choices but I honest to god think it's one of his best traits/abilities. He gets it right more often than any other coach in the NH I can think of in my lifetime. Certainly since Woodward's era. Only EJ comes close.

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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 10:19 am

Taylorman wrote:Yep, as I said, just give him a Sky subscription. He can watch from his Jaccuzi in Hamilton. No need to actually engage with the players when you can do that. This has got bad news written all over it. ‘Hang on dear, just gotta pop down the road and coach a Lions tour’...back soon. thumbsup

Have to wait and see. He spent most of his year off on crutches in prep for one. Sometimes it's more about mental clarity and re-focusing than it is about MORE INFORMATION, I would have thought. It's not an exact science. Think Gatland's bigger test will be getting to grips with the demands of week in, week out club rugby duty again, not the Lions tour, if I'm honest.

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Post by The Oracle on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 10:47 am

Old Man wrote:
The Oracle wrote:

Congrats on winning the losers match medal at the recent WC! Over the moon for you. I saw you boys busting a gut to win. Kudos. Wales, while well beaten, couldn’t give a xxxx in that dead rubber.

I find that disingenuous and quite laughable.

Really?

I was kinda paraphrasing Taylorman's comments about the 3rd/4th place play off before the game, where he was saying pretty much that but from an NZ perspective. But yeah, I doubt any team is really up for a 3/4 place play off. Not like they would be a semi or final.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 11:49 am

miaow wrote:He'll be on Lions duty from November 2020. Best part of a year to prepare with two full NH campaigns to review without the distraction of club rugby. Surprised the Chiefs agreed to it more than anything.

Either way, what's the betting on Shaun Edwards being defence coach? I'd say quite high. I imagine the attack coach might be someone new. Could be Stephen Jones at this point if it's not a Kiwi.

Would the NZ brass see it as a novel way to get insights on emerging talents across the home nations as well as a detailed scouting trip of SA? If it was recognisance then he'd be as well off sussing out more of the English?

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 12:40 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
miaow wrote:He'll be on Lions duty from November 2020. Best part of a year to prepare with two full NH campaigns to review without the distraction of club rugby. Surprised the Chiefs agreed to it more than anything.

Either way, what's the betting on Shaun Edwards being defence coach? I'd say quite high. I imagine the attack coach might be someone new. Could be Stephen Jones at this point if it's not a Kiwi.

Would the NZ brass see it as a novel way to get insights on emerging talents across the home nations as well as a detailed scouting trip of SA?  If it was recognisance then he'd be as well off sussing out more of the English?

There was some vague accusation/suggestion that Gatland had got an insight into Englands coaching by having access to senior players ( and staff) on various Lions tours. 

But (as I'm sure Taylorman will point out)  it really works the other way round for NZ, the NH just employs SH coaches to get an insight into why they keep losing to their sides.

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Post by Noble-Surfer on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 12:58 pm

Taylorman wrote:Yes, Wales tour should be great. Lions not so sure. Think they might be in trouble. I mean will Gats even care by then? Really odd choice now he’s not even going to be in the same hemisphere.

He’d be more concerned if his Chiefs side doesn’t perform and he’s got to hand those reins over while he dabbles abroad. Fancy having to fly in a coach. Weird.

Yeah... I mean what will Gats even have to care about at that point... I mean, he will only have coached the Lions to a series victory over Australia, and a drawn series against New Zealand... Why on Earth would he be aiming to win a series against South Africa with them...?

He's clearly not that ambitious, and doesn't have that drive to win does he? Why would he set his sights on being undefeated as a Lions coach in test series' against Australia, New Zealand and South Africa...? Hardly a plaudit worth aiming for...

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 1:01 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
miaow wrote:He'll be on Lions duty from November 2020. Best part of a year to prepare with two full NH campaigns to review without the distraction of club rugby. Surprised the Chiefs agreed to it more than anything.

Either way, what's the betting on Shaun Edwards being defence coach? I'd say quite high. I imagine the attack coach might be someone new. Could be Stephen Jones at this point if it's not a Kiwi.

Would the NZ brass see it as a novel way to get insights on emerging talents across the home nations as well as a detailed scouting trip of SA?  If it was recognisance then he'd be as well off sussing out more of the English?

Reconnaissance?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 1:27 pm

Old Man wrote:
The Oracle wrote:

Congrats on winning the losers match medal at the recent WC! Over the moon for you. I saw you boys busting a gut to win. Kudos. Wales, while well beaten, couldn’t give a xxxx in that dead rubber.

I find that disingenuous and quite laughable.

Really?

Weird that you didn't comment on the disingenuous post it was replying to.

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Post by Old Man on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 1:58 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Old Man wrote:
The Oracle wrote:

Congrats on winning the losers match medal at the recent WC! Over the moon for you. I saw you boys busting a gut to win. Kudos. Wales, while well beaten, couldn’t give a xxxx in that dead rubber.

I find that disingenuous and quite laughable.

Really?

Weird that you didn't comment on the disingenuous post it was replying to.

I didn’t read that far up. Wink

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