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Scotland 6 Nations Thread

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Post by Highland Shaun on Sun 01 Dec 2019, 11:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

With the 6N fast approaching, I thought I'd be the first to start a thread for it, my team being Scotland because its my nationality lol.

First of all, we know that Danny Wilson won't be coaching as he's off to coach Glasgow plus there are rumours of Matt Taylor the assistant going with Rennie to Australia so that leaves a couple of vacancies available, hopefully after the 6N, the main head coach one will be available too, which I would suspect Richard Cockerill would be the outright fav for, but that's a topic for after the 6N.

So, who would you like to see be in our 6N squad, are there any new caps that are likely, are there any players possibly getting recalls or would we likely see any younger players get a shot.

This is the place to discuss so go ahead 😉.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 4:03 pm

Squad announced tomorrow apparently

Scottish Rugby Blog floating Jack Owlet of Wasps as a maybe LH bolter. Goodness knows, we need one!

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Post by RDW on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 4:08 pm

Says it all if he's who we're relying on. 7 pro appearances for the Cheifs then 7 appearances for Wasps lately, all but one from the bench.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 4:09 pm

Well he did play Scotland U20.... in 2015... not that I remember him!

Wasps have him down as a "promising tighthead" so we really are scraping the barrel!
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Post by RDW on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 4:11 pm

He's also a tighthead!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 4:14 pm

I've always been an advocate of meatball in the front row. Short enough to get under his opposite number, round enough to get a shove on. He can slot in at fly half between set pieces. Plenty of Scotland experience too. Problem solved
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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 4:21 pm

Just saw the rest of the glasgow budget has gone to doubling mark dodsons paycheck for a successful year all round! furious

I dont take issue with CEOs taking pay rises and having high pay. I do when its three times the profit made that year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51109389
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Post by BigGee on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 4:38 pm

We were discussing it on the club thread as well

Seems unbelievable but it probably is!

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Post by bsando on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 5:42 pm

Woah! I’d have guessed he was on £350,000 a year not close to a £1M

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Post by RDW on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 5:51 pm

Need to add his 70k fine plus the incalculable cost of the long term damage from his falling out with World Rugby to that bill!

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 7:40 pm

Exactly £932,999 more than I’d be willing to pay the egotistical roaster

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 7:41 pm

This sums up my thoughts on Scottish rugby right now

The squad is missing a hard nosed Nathan Hines type that the players fear/respect so will do as he says.

We’re also missing a natural communicator. A warburton/McCaw/Pocock type.

Across the board we’re too honest/nice/naive.

Gray is the epitome of this. Great player with absolute zero killer instinct or want/need to empty his opposite man onto the floor.

Jonny has also not been the player he was of two years ago. It’s almost like he’s peaked and isn’t pushing on to be better. I’d say he’s not a nailed on starter. He should start but he’s not nailed on.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 8:54 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51109386

Tom English take on things!

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Post by RDW on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 8:58 pm

Pretty fair as always, if a little flowery language! He's certainly honed in on Bradbury like we have.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 9:10 pm

Jeebus. How do I sue this man for plagiarism?

He’s just taken my post about is being a bunch of jessies and padded it out
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Post by 123456789. on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 10:49 pm

In short, Scotland need to toughen up. Scotland need to stop conceding stupid tries. Scotland’s forwards have to meet their potential. Scotland need to learn to win close games.

Being a Scottish rugby pundit must be straightforward: write an article around those four points, buy a thesaurus to change the words every year, change the names when the wheel turns, watch Scotland do the same thing.

That and have an piece up your sleeve for the quinquennial trend bucking victory (i.e Ireland at home 2017), “Have Scotland finally turned a corner?”

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Post by bsando on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 7:11 am

The close games last year like Wales and England both came down to small margins. The Wales game really just needed a forward to make a crucial offload and/or break to add to the pressure the Scottish backline were exerting on Wales. That 2nd half was basically all Scotland but they failed to get a crucial try as Wales soaked up everything Scotland threw at them. Watson did very well when he came on but others needed to emulate that.

Against England, Brown gave away the daft penalty that lead to a 5m lineout and eventually a draw salvaging try for England.

For this years 6N, if Scotland statistically can improve on all fronts, ie less missed tackles, less lost lineouts, less scrum penalties, then they won't be a million miles away. Ireland first up is a brilliant game to show Scottish rugby fans lessons have been learned and Scotland can compete for 80 minutes away from home.

The 2018 fixture was a very close game of chess between Ireland and Scotland in that first quarter with Scotland winning it 3-0 up. That was before Horne threw a howler and gave Stockdale an easy run in. It was 7-3 in the red before halftime but Scotland conceded at 41.23 to make it 12-3. That's the soft underbelly English mentions, teams know Scotland will probably fold in situations like that, 5m out with the changing room beckoning. Ireland just kicked on from there. At the time we pointed to all the missed chances, but the defence and lack of aggression was the real problem.

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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 9:46 am

Happy squad announcement day!

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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:07 am

Well well well - Hogg has been named captain.

Not sure it's the best idea!

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Post by EST on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:10 am

RDW wrote:Well well well - Hogg has been named captain.

Not sure it's the best idea!

I'm coming round to the idea - looking throughout the rest of the team, there are no outstanding candidates putting their hands up.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:15 am

Well it is what it is and worth a try I guess.

I suspect it is the lack of alternatives that is driving this though, but I hope he is a natural at it and does a good job.

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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:15 am

Scotland 6 Nations Thread - Page 6 EOUJhStXsAESiBq

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:16 am

EST wrote:
RDW wrote:Well well well - Hogg has been named captain.

Not sure it's the best idea!

I'm coming round to the idea - looking throughout the rest of the team, there are no outstanding candidates putting their hands up.

Thats the problem we have, lack of leaders.

Hogg is still a bit too hot headed to be captain. We can hope that that the added resposnibility calms him down.
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Post by tigertattie on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:20 am

RDW wrote:Scotland 6 Nations Thread - Page 6 EOUJhStXsAESiBq

Surely Alex Craig and Tagive are the token Toonie curve balls here

Gordon and Haining getting the shout is a bit bold also (even thought likely deserved)

Notable ommissions for Weir and perhaps Bennett
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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:20 am

LH - Bhattie, Dell, Sutherland, Bhatti
H- McInally, Brown, Turner
TH - Berghan, Fagerson, Nel
L - Craig, Cummings, Gilchrist, J Gray, Toolis
BR - Bradbury, Crosbie, CDP, Gordon, Haining, Ritchie, Watson

SH - Horne, Price, Pyrgos
FH - Russell, Hastings
C - Harris, Hutchinson, Jones, Scott, Johnson
W - Maitland, McGuigan, Steyn, tagive, Graham
FB - Hogg, Kinghorn


Last edited by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:21 am

No real surprises there, with Bennett being the biggest casualty although he had a lot of competition.

Good to see Haining in there.

CDP's inclusion probably the biggest surprise but he is a regular starter for Worcester.

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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:24 am

No Blade Thomson!

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Post by BigGee on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:24 am

Well no Ryan Wilson or Pete Horne, probably fair to say their international careers are over. No Sam Skinner, but presumably that is injury related and he will join up once he gets some game time. No RG either, but harder to interpret that one.

In come Alex Craig, Haining, Tom Gordon and Tagaive

Returns for CDP and Sutherland.

I am glad he has freshened the squad up a bit. No issues with Horne and Wilson standing down, nor the inclusions, particularly with CDP, who has been playing well for Worcester. Bradbury needs to know he is not going to walk into the team,

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Post by BigGee on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:25 am

I missed Thompson as well, who seems to be paying the price for not getting any game time with the Scarlets.

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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:27 am

Ah I missed Skinner too. I'm sure he'll be called up once he gets a bit of gametime. I'm actually quite excited by that squad and it's great to see fresh faces in there.

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Post by EST on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:31 am

Perhaps this is the second coming of CDP, he has never convinced at international level but apparently his ankle issue has settled down and he has been playing well.

Not sure about Tagive or Gordons inclusion, but i'd rather have them than persist with the likes of Wilson and Horne.

We can cobble together a decent 23 from that, but as a squad there are some pretty big holes.

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Post by cakeordeath on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:35 am

I look at Nick Haining in the same way jimbo looks at a thesaurus, so I delighted he has been included.


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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:42 am

Despite being at Gloucester, I have to admit that Alex Craig is a new one to me.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:44 am

I am not sure that either of Tagaive, Haining nor Gordon will get any game time, baring a run of injuries but it is certainly worth having a look at the in the international environment.

Both Gordon and Haining have looked good when they have got chances this year and Gordon in particular is certainly one to watch for the future. Tagaive has been less convincing, but DR certainly seems to rate him and we are not overflowing with wing options atm

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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:45 am

BigGee wrote:I am not sure that either of Tagaive, Haining nor Gordon will get any game time, baring a run of injuries but it is certainly worth having a look at the in the international environment.

Both Gordon and Haining have looked good when they have got chances this year and Gordon in particular is certainly one to watch for the future. Tagaive has been less convincing, but DR certainly seems to rate him and we are not overflowing with wing options atm
Until Duhan qualifies!

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Post by BigGee on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:46 am

LondonTiger wrote:Despite being at Gloucester, I have to admit that Alex Craig is a new one to me.

Highly promising Scotland U20s player who came through the Hartbury production line. He has been in and around the Gloucester squad for a couple of seasons now and has pretty much worked his way into their starting quad now. For a team that has their talent available in the second row, that is a reasonable endorsement. Unlikely to get capped this time around I would say, but certainly one for the future.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:48 am

RDW wrote:
BigGee wrote:I am not sure that either of Tagaive, Haining nor Gordon will get any game time, baring a run of injuries but it is certainly worth having a look at the in the international environment.

Both Gordon and Haining have looked good when they have got chances this year and Gordon in particular is certainly one to watch for the future. Tagaive has been less convincing, but DR certainly seems to rate him and we are not overflowing with wing options atm
Until Duhan qualifies!

Even with VDM, we are still not stacked with options, Sleepy Sean is not getting any younger either.

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Post by EST on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:49 am

Just noticed, no Matt Fagerson.....

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Post by BigGee on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:51 am

Crickey, just noticed no Matt Fagerson either, now that one is a surprise!

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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 10:58 am

Perhaps a surprise that CDP was picked over him but then again I don't think his form has been good enough to demand his selection.

We've got a lot of lightweight athletic flankers too so for squad balance CDP's power maybe won the debate.

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Post by EST on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 11:00 am

I wonder if Matt Fagerson should consider a move to open side? He certainly has all the physical attributes. He packs a huge punch for his size, but in the world of international No 8's, he probably just isn't big enough.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 11:07 am

I think that suspension has cost MF, not having the chance to impress in the derby games.

I agree as well that it probably means that Toonie does not see him as an international N0.8 either.

As BS he is put against Bradbury and Ritchie, who have the international experience, as well as Crosbie who is a 61/2

Gordon is an out and out OS, who looks like he might be Watson's understudy.

Its tough on MF, who was playing well prior to the suspension, but I imagine he will be the first call up should their be an injury, which is almost inevitable.

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Post by bsando on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 11:20 am

No Fagerson or Thomson, but Haining could be a great choice. He?s looked good at Edinburgh and CDP getting back is a fantastic story. He deserves another shot, he?ll hopefully bring some much needed physicality. I reckon Thomson would be there if he?d been getting more game time. Bad luck for Fagerson though, he looked good on the weekend. 

Hogg Captain, well that is an interesting one. I really didn?t think they?d go with him but he is one of the most experienced players and a dead cert to start. I hope it works out and he remains captain for the whole tournament though.

Leaving out P Horne, Wilson and Grigg seems to suggest they?ve recognised change was needed. Grigg has so much competition though it?s not a real surprise, but Wilson I was surprised to see gone. 

Overall pretty happy with that. I would have liked Thomson in there though. Tagive hasn?t looked quite good enough and I suspect him or mcguigan will drop out once DVM is qualified.

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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 11:21 am

Feck that's another big name missing - no Duncan Taylor!

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Post by 123456789. on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 11:23 am

Real mixed selection there. Richie Gray has apparently not featured all too much for Toulouse and probably has ground to make up. No Fagerson is a surprise, as is no Thomson or Taylor. Looking at it there?s not a huge number of players that are likely to miss out on the next World Cup due to age.

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Post by bsando on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 11:32 am

From the Offside Line 


“Gray and Thomson are currently out of action with head injuries, while Fagerson has a fractured rib. Head coach Gregor Townsend said he is hopeful that all three will come into contention later in the championship. Harlequins utility-back James Lang has been ruled out with a toenailed hamstring.
Taylor was already struggling for selection in a highly competitive position, and Townsend explained that the fact he is likely to play for Saracens on the Sunday before the team’s Six Nations opener against Ireland on Saturday 1st February counted against him being involved in this initial squad.”

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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 11:32 am

The 'not selected' XV reinforces where our areas of strength are:

1 - Alex Allan
2 - Dave Cherry
3 - Murray McCallum
4 - Richie Gray
5 - Sam Skinner
6 - Ryan Wilson
7 - Matt Fagerson (a bit of poetic license here)
8 - Blade Thomson

9 - Charlie Shiel
10 - Duncan Weir
11 - Damien Hoyland
12 - Duncan Taylor
13 - Mark Bennett
14 - Dougie Fife
15 - Rauridh Jackson

Strong in the back 5 and centres as expected, scraping the barrel for front row and back 3!

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Post by RDW on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 11:34 am

bsando wrote:From the Offside Line 


“Gray and Thomson are currently out of action with head injuries, while Fagerson has a fractured rib. Head coach Gregor Townsend said he is hopeful that all three will come into contention later in the championship. Harlequins utility-back James Lang has been ruled out with a toenailed hamstring.
Taylor was already struggling for selection in a highly competitive position, and Townsend explained that the fact he is likely to play for Saracens on the Sunday before the team’s Six Nations opener against Ireland on Saturday 1st February counted against him being involved in this initial squad.”
Toenailed hamstring sounds painful

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 11:36 am

Well per usual there are some quibbles with the squad but the majority is as expected.

Front row is the nine we expected. Sutherland vs Reid for the final spot. The SRU need to future plan better than this. To have both starting LH's at Glasgow and Edinburgh as non-SQ's (heck top two at Glasgow due to the demotion of Allan) has left us massively underweight.

Second row - Toolis and Gilchrist can be considered lucky that R Gray and Skinner have both been injured for the last couple of months. Craig has been tearing up trees and should be the bench option. Gilchrist and Gray, whilst both big boys, don't dominate the scrum for us and, as someone said, are too similar in skills to pair. Suspect Toonie will go safe and do Gray - Cummings with Gilchrist on the bench though

Back row - CDP earned his call-up the hard way. Glasgow should be looking to sign Thomson and G Graham next season as they both need to be playing consistently at the higher levels

Half backs are as expected. Weir should have been called and told he is next man up

Centres - Taylor and Bennett miss out. Taylor got brought back for the wrong tournament in retrospect and has paid the price. Bennett is unlucky but Harris has been good and had a good World Cup. Scott won out due to being a 12 and gets to fight Johnson to start

Back 3 - As expected bar Tagive. Tagive has been good every time I see him play. He is good under the high ball, has pace and is physical. Nice fifth/sixth man to have when the injuries hit. We need Nairn, Blaine and DVDM to step up/qualify over the next two years though with Maitland and McGuigan getting on

All in all, not a bad squad.

Need to start future proofing certain positions though. The TH side as Nel is pushing on in age and Rae is probably fourth choice at this point. Nicol and McCallum need to get game time. By the time we get the LH side up to par, our TH's will be struggling. It is like a see saw at this point.

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 11:48 am

Can it be said?

Toonie has likely picked a sensible squad?

Taylor, Blade, Fagerson. Skinner, R Gray and even Weir all haven’t played rugby recently. Has Toonie finally moved from the habit of picking on reputation? He's picked the suitable alternatives to these inured/unavailable players.

Bennett maybe aggrieved at no selection. Crikey, even Wilson and Horne could feel aggrieved (if they weren’t knickers) but the injured boys need to play their way back into contention.
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Scotland 6 Nations Thread - Page 6 Empty Re: Scotland 6 Nations Thread

Post by BigGee on Wed 15 Jan 2020, 12:19 pm

It is a good squad and with a bit of depth as well in pretty much every position bar LH

A few players have been unlucky to miss out, Lang in particular to my mind, as he has been very good evry time I have seen Quins this year. Unfortunately a hamstring tear could mean he misses the whole competition.

Toonie is urging the newcomers to take their chances, there are certainly some opportunities up for grabs!

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Scotland 6 Nations Thread - Page 6 Empty Re: Scotland 6 Nations Thread

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