Scotland 6 Nations Thread

by Highland Shaun Sun 01 Dec 2019, 11:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

With the 6N fast approaching, I thought I'd be the first to start a thread for it, my team being Scotland because its my nationality lol.

First of all, we know that Danny Wilson won't be coaching as he's off to coach Glasgow plus there are rumours of Matt Taylor the assistant going with Rennie to Australia so that leaves a couple of vacancies available, hopefully after the 6N, the main head coach one will be available too, which I would suspect Richard Cockerill would be the outright fav for, but that's a topic for after the 6N.

So, who would you like to see be in our 6N squad, are there any new caps that are likely, are there any players possibly getting recalls or would we likely see any younger players get a shot.

This is the place to discuss so go ahead

.

by **RDW** Thu 05 Dec 2019, 10:37 am

McCallum has been tighthead for the last few years, on rarely filling in at LH.

He's not played much either way to be fair.

by bsando Thu 05 Dec 2019, 10:39 am

RDW wrote:McCallum has been tighthead for the last few years, on rarely filling in at LH.

He's not played much either way to be fair.

Sigh, getting my LH's mixed up with my TH's again.. Well he's definitely one for the future anyway.

by **RDW** Thu 05 Dec 2019, 10:56 am

He's been around quite a few years now so I'd say he's less one for the future and more one that's in danger of not having a professional career much longer! He's really not been given a chance by Cockers, and he only gives player gametime if they earn it (see Marfo).

He is only 23 so there's plenty time for him to come good - it's whether he gets a chance or not.

by Tramptastic Thu 05 Dec 2019, 1:34 pm

The thing is whenever these guys have played (Allan, McCallum and Marfo) they've not played badly. I can't remember seeing any of them get turned inside out by their opposition, scrums were steady, they made their tackles, carried the ball well etc

Maybe they need an opportunity down south? Dickinson went to Gloucester and came back immeasurably better (whether that was a change in laws with the hit being removed or his technique improving is up for debate). But then I suppose the other side of that coin is Welsh and Low who both moved south and kind of vanished... speaking of them, is their any front row aficionados/people with good memories that can explain why Welsh started out as heir apparent to Chunk but then got pushed to being an okish tighthead while Low, who started off his career as a proper good tighthead, got shunted to loosehead?

by Prothero Fri 06 Dec 2019, 12:27 pm

I do tend to keep a eye on the Edinburgh front row selections in particular with an eye on the national team. the negatives have been an all NSQ (Currently) front row being selected in last couple of games.

The positives are Rory Sutherland seems to be coming into form again being selected over Bhatti as replacement to Shooie, and looking like a beast ball in hand again like he was that season he got his Scotland caps and put Cj stander on his A£$E against Ireland. He had a couple of injuries and looked to be struggling for confidence last season.

Macallum is clearly a well regarded 4 choice to Nel, Berghan, Ceccerelli. Got some game time early in season as replacement while nel and Berghan were rested post world cup. However think he has played at super 6 level last couple of weeks.

I really hope by the time he is 26/27 he is 1st or 2nd choice prop for Edinburgh but that requires someone to decide to allow him to move up the order and not recruit a random Italian or Tongan when Nel or Berghan moves on or retire.

by 123456789. Fri 06 Dec 2019, 3:20 pm

I suspect Oli Kebble will be parachuted in as soon as he qualifies. Apparently Schoeman is now a project player with a view to 2023. Given he is already 28 that seems unbelievably mind-numbingly stupid. He'll be 32 when he qualifies, presumably as almost a one tournament wonder. That is, of course, unless his career has hit the buffers by then. Players who are over 30 seem increasingly to drop off a cliff form wise. I've already said my piece on Scotland prioritising World Cups, so I won't repeat myself, however if we don't get a fair amount of decent results in our next sixteen fixtures then we will be going into the 2023 World Cup as the third team in our pool. The World Cup will be an uphill struggle just to qualify. Schoeman is a very good player and I have no issue with the professional teams making space for good foreign players. However he should not be considered a future Scotland player and if that's a deliberate policy it seems nonsensical. I never liked project players as a deliberate choice. Now it's five years residential period it seems faintly ridiculous. Who knows what players will be available in five years time? Those we do know of may be in indifferent form at best. There is quite possibly a chubby sixteen year old sat at the back of maths class at this very moment scoffing his face with haribo and trying to figure out how to turn on his calculator blissfully unaware that he'll be running out for Scotland at the next world cup.

by **RDW** Fri 06 Dec 2019, 3:23 pm

Schoeman is 25 - he'll be 28/29 when he qualifies which is propping prime.

I suspect a large part of the 5 year deal is because he is a very good loosehead and Edinburgh want him! That on its own is reason to give him a long term deal.

It's not like he's not going to be doing anything up until when he qualifies.

by **BigGee** Fri 06 Dec 2019, 3:29 pm

There was an interview with VDM in rugby pass with Jsmie Lyall this morning.

He is under negotiations for a nee contract and seems likely to sign, that would toe him in. He actually qualifies in July and could go on the summer tour as it is later this year.

He sounds keen on international rugby!

by 123456789. Fri 06 Dec 2019, 3:44 pm

RDW wrote:Schoeman is 25 - he'll be 28/29 when he qualifies which is propping prime.

I suspect a large part of the 5 year deal is because he is a very good loosehead and Edinburgh want him! That on its own is reason to give him a long term deal.

It's not like he's not going to be doing anything up until when he qualifies.

Well if he's 25 that does change everything.

by **BigGee** Fri 06 Dec 2019, 4:46 pm

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/i-knew-nothing-about-edinburgh-i-didnt-even-know-it-was-in-scotland-id-never-really-heard-of-it

VDM interview

by **RDW** Sat 07 Dec 2019, 12:30 pm

Say it quietly....is Kinghorn the first choice Scottish fullback just now based on form?

by **RDW** Sat 07 Dec 2019, 12:40 pm

Also channel 4 has Northampton v Leinster so we can watch Hutchinson

by **NeilyBroon** Sat 07 Dec 2019, 5:51 pm

Id say kinghorn is definitely ahead on form now. Not that toonie will view it that way. It'd be good to see if Hogg could take a dropping on the chin and up his game again as he really hasnt had any competition internationally for the last 6/7 years.

Steyn's surely coming back into the equation as a potential useful squad winger/centre.

by **BigGee** Sat 07 Dec 2019, 6:14 pm

Steyn is a hungry player, who seems to be taking the most of his opportunities

I would not mind if he was in the squad at all, he may not get picked, but he will keep them honest

by **RDW** Sat 07 Dec 2019, 7:09 pm

Hutchinson had a pretty quiet game today, albeit they were completely outplayed by Leinster.

by tigertattie Sat 07 Dec 2019, 8:57 pm

RDW wrote:Hutchinson had a pretty quiet game today, albeit they were completely outplayed by Leinster.

That pass though. Tasty.

Though I do agree that on form blairhorn is ahead of Hogg. Toonie won’t do it though. I think we’ll see Kinghorn on the bench as back 3 cover or he may even start on the wing if maitland isn’t on song. I’ve still got graham starting over Seymour btw.

by **RDW** Sat 07 Dec 2019, 9:03 pm

Seymour shouldn't be in the wider training squad on current form!

by **BigGee** Sat 07 Dec 2019, 9:21 pm

Despite all he has done previously, i would agree on Seymour on current form

by **RDW** Sat 07 Dec 2019, 9:35 pm

It's not just current - he's down hee haw in a Scotland shirt for a while now

by tigertattie Sat 07 Dec 2019, 10:29 pm

Great player three years ago. Lost a yard of pace and losing even half a yard is bad enough unless you can make up for it with quicker thinking like Maitland

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 08 Dec 2019, 8:27 am

Got to feel for him, he really doesn't seem happy playing at the moment. I've never seen a player fall so far post-lions. I think that tour kickstarted the end of his career.

Hope he can at least have a few decent games this season as expect he'll retire from international rugby soon, he just looks very unhappy.

by **BigGee** Sun 08 Dec 2019, 8:54 am

He only signed a one year contract last year, i would not be surprised if he retires completely at the end of this season.

DTH as well, both great servants to the club, but both look like they have acheived what they wanted from the game.

Maybe the team hitting some form might revive them a bit for a last hurrah, i hope so, they deserve to go out on a bit of a high.

by bsando Sun 08 Dec 2019, 9:41 am

Dunno if anyone saw Teddy Thomas’s second try against 14 man Ospreys but russell put in not one but two perfect grubbers in an end to end score. First one to Thomas for the break the second for Zebo as the ospreys defence rushed up. That could be something he’ll use more in the 6N to beat rush defences, very clever little kick.

by **BigGee** Sun 08 Dec 2019, 9:58 am

bsando wrote:Dunno if anyone saw Teddy Thomas’s second try against 14 man Ospreys but russell put in not one but two perfect grubbers in an end to end score. First one to Thomas for the break the second for Zebo as the ospreys defence rushed up. That could be something he’ll use more in the 6N to beat rush defences, very clever little kick.

They are becoming a bit of a trade mark for Finn and they seem to work very well when playing for Racing. I watched the game and even bearing in mind that Ospreys were 1 or 2 men short at various times, I thought he gave a tactical masterclass.

Finn looks on great form at the moment, lets hope he can bring it with him into the 6N.

by bsando Sun 08 Dec 2019, 10:19 am

BigGee wrote:
bsando wrote:Dunno if anyone saw Teddy Thomas’s second try against 14 man Ospreys but russell put in not one but two perfect grubbers in an end to end score. First one to Thomas for the break the second for Zebo as the ospreys defence rushed up. That could be something he’ll use more in the 6N to beat rush defences, very clever little kick.

They are becoming a bit of a trade mark for Finn and they seem to work very well when playing for Racing. I watched the game and even bearing in mind that Ospreys were 1 or 2 men short at various times, I thought he gave a tactical masterclass.

Finn looks on great form at the moment, lets hope he can bring it with him into the 6N.

Yes he always has a big smile on his face playing for Racing and seems to gel really well with Zebo, the two of them are as thick as thieves.

His grubbers seem more accurate of late which is hugely encouraging. Perhaps he's been working on his technique a little bit after the RWC where he had a few hairy moments that sent Scotland rushing back in desperate defence.

by **RDW** Sun 08 Dec 2019, 10:27 am

NeilyBroon wrote:Got to feel for him, he really doesn't seem happy playing at the moment. I've never seen a player fall so far post-lions. I think that tour kickstarted the end of his career.

Hope he can at least have a few decent games this season as expect he'll retire from international rugby soon, he just looks very unhappy.

Ryan Grant!

by bsando Sun 08 Dec 2019, 12:10 pm

True that was a spectacular fall! We all thought he should have been subbed on for Vunipola in the 2nd test the Lions lost, I wonder what would have happened to his career if he had been subbed on?

by **BigGee** Sun 08 Dec 2019, 1:45 pm

Never did one bit of vindictive coaching cost a player so badly. It got into his head and was never the same again!

by **RDW** Sun 08 Dec 2019, 1:50 pm

Also cost the Lions - Vunipola was running on fumes for the last 15 minutes

by **RDW** Sun 08 Dec 2019, 3:32 pm

Hogg's obviously been listening - outstanding break leading to an Exeter try.

He then grubbers through for his own try!

He's on fire.

by **RDW** Sun 08 Dec 2019, 3:34 pm

And then goes off injured!

by **BigGee** Sun 08 Dec 2019, 3:48 pm

RDW wrote:Hogg's obviously been listening - outstanding break leading to an Exeter try.

He then grubbers through for his own try!

He's on fire.

Definitely lost a yard of pace though, he would have run in that first one, from which they got the PT, a few years ago. Ashton ran him down quite easily.

by **RDW** Sun 08 Dec 2019, 4:01 pm

BigGee wrote:
RDW wrote:Hogg's obviously been listening - outstanding break leading to an Exeter try.

He then grubbers through for his own try!

He's on fire.

Definitely lost a yard of pace though, he would have run in that first one, from which they got the PT, a few years ago. Ashton ran him down quite easily.

Was still a hell of a break!

by **RDW** Sun 08 Dec 2019, 7:32 pm

Hogg actually failed another HIA which is a worry, particularly as there was no obvious head collision.

There's positive noises about it after the game but still a worry!

by bsando Sun 08 Dec 2019, 7:47 pm

Glad they're being careful with him though. He did look awfully slow for that penalty try, but he did also run all over the pitch and it was a blistering start to the game. So I still think he can run fast when he's not gasping. He looks a lot bulkier though than when he was streaming past half of NZ in 2017. Only 2 years ago as well so he must have bulked up a bit for the Premiership.

by funnyExiledScot Sun 08 Dec 2019, 8:03 pm

BigGee wrote:
RDW wrote:Hogg's obviously been listening - outstanding break leading to an Exeter try.

He then grubbers through for his own try!

He's on fire.

Definitely lost a yard of pace though, he would have run in that first one, from which they got the PT, a few years ago. Ashton ran him down quite easily.

Agreed. This has been the most troubling aspect of Hogg's development. He's still quick, but at his peak his pace was something special.

by king_carlos Sun 08 Dec 2019, 9:32 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
BigGee wrote:
RDW wrote:Hogg's obviously been listening - outstanding break leading to an Exeter try.

He then grubbers through for his own try!

He's on fire.

Definitely lost a yard of pace though, he would have run in that first one, from which they got the PT, a few years ago. Ashton ran him down quite easily.

Agreed. This has been the most troubling aspect of Hogg's development. He's still quick, but at his peak his pace was something special.

Hogg looks like he's put on a fair bit of bulk from when he was at his quickest. Similar to Matt Scott I think Hoggy could do with losing a few kilos to get some pace back.

by Highland Shaun Mon 09 Dec 2019, 12:37 am

I have 3 questions to ask regarding the upcoming 6N.

1) Are you confident of Scotland's chances of having a successful campaign?
2) I think I may have asked it already lol. Are we likely to see any new faces in the squad, if so, who?
3) What will be considered good enough, for the duds at the SRU, to save GT from the axe?

by **RDW** Mon 09 Dec 2019, 7:39 am

Highland Shaun wrote:I have 3 questions to ask regarding the upcoming 6N.

1) Are you confident of Scotland's chances of having a successful campaign?
2) I think I may have asked it already lol. Are we likely to see any new faces in the squad, if so, who?
3) What will be considered good enough, for the duds at the SRU, to save GT from the axe?

1 no, based on our decline in performance and strange selection calls over the last 18 months or so

2 - I can't see there being any new caps, but I'd like to see inexperienced players like Hutchinson and Skinner play a key part.

3 - I'm not sure about the SRU, but given our history in this tournament I think 2 wins and strong performances in the other games would be pass marks. Assuming those wins are Italy and France, we're clear underdogs in the other games so winning more would be a big shock. Saying that, we really should be showing progress by now which means we need to be winning these games!

by tigertattie Mon 09 Dec 2019, 10:15 am

Oh we'll probably do what we usually do.

Scrape an away win against Italy and narrowly beat England at home. We'll then get cuffed by Ireland, Wales and France but because we beat England Toonie wil be declared a national hero and keep his job, Ryan Wilson will be given the freedom of Glasgow and Mark Dodson appointed lord high protector of Scotland by then SNP

by bsando Mon 09 Dec 2019, 12:22 pm

1) Are you confident of Scotland's chances of having a successful campaign? - Yes, but I'm a hopeless Scottish Rugby optimist. I actually think we have a very good squad when all available and fit. As we saw on the weekend, some players are in or developing good form at club level.

A successful campaign for me would be winning the 6N, Triple Crown or at least winning 3 matches and retaining the Calcutta Cup for a 3rd straight season since 1972. There is a major question mark over Townsend's strategy however, and I want to see the mistakes of the RWC remedied in this 6N. Ideally Townsend can redeem Scotland's form and hit the summer tour of SA and NZ with confidence. He's got it all to do.

2) I think I may have asked it already lol. Are we likely to see any new faces in the squad, if so, who? - I think there will be a couple of players training in the wider squad but not getting capped. Possible surprise call ups? The other Northampton centre Dingwall, Hunter-Hill, Vellacot (very sceptical though due to injury/allegiance), Alex Craig.. major left field call up would be Auckland Blues Finlay Christie.

3) What will be considered good enough, for the duds at the SRU, to save GT from the axe? - 5th

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Mon 09 Dec 2019, 12:57 pm

3) What will be considered good enough, for the duds at the SRU, to save GT from the axe?

Not having to spend any money to pay off Gregor's contract. Too cynical?

by **RDW** Mon 09 Dec 2019, 12:59 pm

bsando wrote:1) Are you confident of Scotland's chances of having a successful campaign? - Yes, but I'm a hopeless Scottish Rugby optimist. I actually think we have a very good squad when all available and fit. As we saw on the weekend, some players are in or developing good form at club level.

A successful campaign for me would be winning the 6N, Triple Crown or at least winning 3 matches and retaining the Calcutta Cup for a 3rd straight season since 1972. There is a major question mark over Townsend's strategy however, and I want to see the mistakes of the RWC remedied in this 6N. Ideally Townsend can redeem Scotland's form and hit the summer tour of SA and NZ with confidence. He's got it all to do.

2) I think I may have asked it already lol. Are we likely to see any new faces in the squad, if so, who? - I think there will be a couple of players training in the wider squad but not getting capped. Possible surprise call ups? The other Northampton centre Dingwall, Hunter-Hill, Vellacot (very sceptical though due to injury/allegiance), Alex Craig.. major left field call up would be Auckland Blues Finlay Christie.

3) What will be considered good enough, for the duds at the SRU, to save GT from the axe? - 5th

That's some high expectations!

I usually get pillared on here when I suggest only 2 or 3 wins being classed as a success, but our history really doesn't given any indication that this kind of return should be expected from us!

by bsando Mon 09 Dec 2019, 4:18 pm

RDW wrote:
bsando wrote:1) Are you confident of Scotland's chances of having a successful campaign? - Yes, but I'm a hopeless Scottish Rugby optimist. I actually think we have a very good squad when all available and fit. As we saw on the weekend, some players are in or developing good form at club level.

A successful campaign for me would be winning the 6N, Triple Crown or at least winning 3 matches and retaining the Calcutta Cup for a 3rd straight season since 1972. There is a major question mark over Townsend's strategy however, and I want to see the mistakes of the RWC remedied in this 6N. Ideally Townsend can redeem Scotland's form and hit the summer tour of SA and NZ with confidence. He's got it all to do.

2) I think I may have asked it already lol. Are we likely to see any new faces in the squad, if so, who? - I think there will be a couple of players training in the wider squad but not getting capped. Possible surprise call ups? The other Northampton centre Dingwall, Hunter-Hill, Vellacot (very sceptical though due to injury/allegiance), Alex Craig.. major left field call up would be Auckland Blues Finlay Christie.

3) What will be considered good enough, for the duds at the SRU, to save GT from the axe? - 5th
That's some high expectations!

I usually get pillared on here when I suggest only 2 or 3 wins being classed as a success, but our history really doesn't given any indication that this kind of return should be expected from us!

Haha I think I am deluded as well. Honestly though, I do think Townsend can turn his and Scotland's fortunes around. I think the RWC helped weed out some major flaws in selections and gameplan so hopefully that will put Scotland in a stronger position for the 2020 6N.

by TJ Mon 09 Dec 2019, 4:27 pm

Three wins is the minimum to say its a successful season surely? You must win more games than you lose. I think three wins a tough task - even unlikely but we cannot be happy with less

by TJ Mon 09 Dec 2019, 4:37 pm

Selections?
Was Townsend actually too timid against Ireland starting without wee Horne and Darcy G? Certainly they were the attacking choice. For me along with Dancer and Hogg they should be the nailed on backs for this six nations.
Watson and Ritchie should be two of the backrowers and Ryan Grant can naff off. Locks - Big Ritchie / ickle Jonny - the dream team? Nel / Fagerson on one side and Rambo gets hooker

by **BigGee** Mon 09 Dec 2019, 5:11 pm

TJ wrote:Selections?
Was Townsend actually too timid against Ireland starting without wee Horne and Darcy G? Certainly they were the attacking choice. For me along with Dancer and Hogg they should be the nailed on backs for this six nations.
Watson and Ritchie should be two of the backrowers and Ryan Grant can naff off. Locks - Big Ritchie / ickle Jonny - the dream team? Nel / Fagerson on one side and Rambo gets hooker

I agree, he never really came back well from that Lions tour 8 years ago!

by **RDW** Mon 09 Dec 2019, 5:15 pm

TJ wrote:Three wins is the minimum to say its a successful season surely? You must win more games than you lose. I think three wins a tough task - even unlikely but we cannot be happy with less

We literally have this debate every year, but it's all relative. You can't apply that logic to every team in the tournament as they all have different measures of success - Italy are delighted just to win one game, whereas England, Ireland and Wales would be disappointed to only win 3 - they have the history to back those aspirations up, we don't. In the last 19 tournaments we have had 3 wins only 3 times. That's a very harsh yardstick to measure as success! I haven't done the numbers but if you change that yardstick to 2 wins then it's something like treble the number of tournaments.

We are 2nd bottom seeds in the tournament so we 'should' only win one game if it goes by ranking. To win 2 games means an upset of the odds, which to me can be classed as pass marks.

by Mad for Chelsea Tue 10 Dec 2019, 2:30 am

I think it also depends on your definition of "success" TBH. I'm probably closer to RDW on this: for me two wins and a reasonable showing in a couple of defeats would be an OK campaign. Not great or amazing, but OK. Three wins would be rather good. Realistically:
- Italy away: should really win.
- France home: marginal favourites based on home advantage. France - rather like us! - haven't beaten anyone other than Italy away from home for some time, no?
- England home: could win, but I think they'll be really gunning for this one after our last two encounters.
- Wales/Ireland away: big underdogs, though there is the fact that Ireland and especially Wales will be very much in transition after changes of coaches, so maybe an opportunity there? (putting my optimist hat on).

So if you define "success" as three wins or more, I'm not really confident. If it's two wins and good showings in other matches, combined with improved tactics/selection/performances, then I'm moderately confident.

As for new faces, don't see many options. I think we may well see guys who haven't played much getting more involved (e.g. Hutchinson, wee Horne, Cummings), and maybe some returns (e.g. Scott, R. Gray), but don't think we'll see any completely new faces. Maybe Steyn? Tagive as a long shot? Haining? Vellacott if some of the SHs get injured?

by bsando Tue 10 Dec 2019, 7:36 am

I hope Scotland perform well first up against Ireland. It's almost a rematch scenario. Away from home and at the start of a major rugby tournament, just like the RWC. Toonie can literally revisit his prep for Ireland in the RWC, unearth all the things that went wrong in the buildup and then hopefully get his side in a much better position to challenge Ireland. Ireland have their own pressures as well, a loss for them would be a huge sucker punch to their campaign.

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