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Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread

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Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread - Page 5 Empty Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread

Post by Tramptastic on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 1:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND V SCOTLAND

1st of February 2020 16:45 Kick off

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Pascal Gauzere (France)
Assistant 2: Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

Ireland: 15 Jordan Larmour, 14 Andrew Conway, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 Jacob Stockdale, 10 Jonathan Sexton (c), 9 Conor Murray, 8 Caelan Doris, 7 Josh van der Flier, 6 CJ Stander, 5 James Ryan, 4 Iain Henderson, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Rob Herring, 1 Cian Healy
Replacements: 16 Ronan Kelleher, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Andrew Porter, 19 Devin Toner, 20 Peter O’Mahony, 21 John Cooney, 22 Ross Byrne, 23 Robbie Henshaw

Scotland: 15 Stuart Hogg (c), 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Huw Jones, 12 Sam Johnson, 11 Blair Kinghorn, 10 Adam Hastings, 9 Ali Price, 8 Nick Haining, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 Jamie Ritchie, 5 Jonny Gray, 4 Scott Cummings, 3 Zander Fagerson, 2 Fraser Brown, 1 Rory Sutherland
Replacements: 16 Stuart McInally, 17 Allan Dell, 18 Simon Berghan, 19 Ben Toolis, 20 Cornell du Preez, 21 George Horne, 22 Rory Hutchinson, 23 Chris Harris

Perennial World Cup Quarter Finalists vs A Team With No Clear Strategy That Doesn't Currently Play To It's Strengths, Please Come Back Vern

Historical head to head data is useless as Scotland won for the 1st hundred years but Ireland have been dead good since the year 2000, except in 2010 at Croke Park which tells you Dan Parks is the finest rugby player Scotland has ever poached from Australia.

New head coach for Ireland in Farrell vs Townsend with new back room staff

Captain Sexton vs Captain Hogg - Eurgh, there's going to be so much moaning at the ref.

I'm looking forward to seeing a healthy amount of abuse in the thread below, please enjoy.


Last edited by Tramptastic on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 11:40 am; edited 5 times in total

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 12:47 pm

I'm entirely on board with the Dodson must go chat and make no bones about that. Yes there has been commercial improvement under his tenure but his track record of causing embarrassment to Scottish rugby when he opens his mouth in public is appalling, coupled with the fact that he is clearly a bully and a dictator.

As the head of the SRU his job security can't be de-coupled from the success of the team on the field, and 2019 was an awful year for Scotland. In no small part due to the underachievement of his personal pick for head coach. He's done his bit on the commercial side, it's now high time he jogged on before things get any worse for the SRU's reputation or the playing side's performance.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 12:51 pm

RDW wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:I’m really not on board with the Dodson must go chat, that largely seems to exist on social media

Yes he earns a lot, but arguably he’s had a bigger job than any of the other UK unions.   By which I mean the SRU were in a far bigger mess than the other nations.  The SRU were also probably a far less appealing job than the other nations (at the time) so would have to pay over the odds to get someone half decent.
- When he came in the SRU were in massive debt,
- Had no professional or semi pro league
- No academies, now we have 4
- Glasgow have won the league under his watch
- Murrayfield has sold out repeatedly

His pay this year is as large as it is, due to 3 years worth of performance bonuses being accrued and taken as a lump sum.  It’s also not up to him to decide his pay, the renumeration committee decided he was worth that much

Whilst this whole Finn thing is unfortunate, I don’t think Dodson is the man to blame.

Also the stuff about Finn's dad, yes he was treaty poorly by the SRU, but that was a couple of years ago now, and Finn has played a number of times for Scotland since then, so to say this is still an issue, or in someway excuses him breaking curfew & missing training, would be very generous.  Also from my understanding, Finn’s dad now performs a similar role for Scottish Hockey, so it’s not like he’s been unemployed since leaving the SRU.

Don’t get me wrong I don’t agree with some of the stuff Dodson's done, but dealing with players etc, should fall solely under the remit of the coaches/DoR, so if Russell has been a prat, that’s on Toonie to fix, if Toonie has been, then I assume that would be on Dodson/the board to resolve.

I don’t know the ins and outs of this story any better than what’s been reported, but the only two folk that appear to be at fault are Toonie and Finn. If Finn was offered the chance to stay and support his teammates and chose not to, then that is on him, and if he wasn’t and Toonie hasn’t spoken to him about a way back, then that’s on him.

Regardless I hope they find a resolution as it would be a shame to lose Finn to the national setup permanently.

There's no doubting he has done a lot of good for Scottish rugby. It's also worth saying that senior director salaries are rarely based on how 'difficult' a job it is but how big a commercial entity they oversee. The MD of a small child cancer charity probably has a more difficult job, but because they are a small commercial entity they will have a relatively small salary. The issue is his pay (even his base pay) dewarfs all the other home nations even though we're by far the smallest commercial entity. 

My reasoning to have moved towards the Dodson must go caamp isn't based on the salary 'scandal', more that Scottish rugby is a bit of a mess right now and getting publicity for all the wrong reasons. There needs to be a cultural change in the organisation, but that won't happen when the man at the top is still there - particularly someone like him whose management style is more of a dictatorship.

This is true, but if the SRU wanted to get to a level similar to that of the other unions, they may have had to pay over the odds to entice someone of his ilk. I'm not saying I agree with it, but his pay seems a strange stick to beat him with, when it's not up to him to decide how much he gets paid. If he was awarding himself that level of bonus payments etc then fine, 100% that's out of order, but it's not. I'm not saying you are incidentally, just this is what seems to appear a lot of social media.

On the 2nd point, I get what you are saying, and as I say I don't agree with a lot of what he's done, but the Finn thing doesn't seem related. Yes it could be argued that Finn can act like a d*ck because Dodson's acted like a d*ck, and now there is a culture of being d*cks, but I don't think that's the case. He's far from perfect but there is a lot of good he's done for the SRU as well as the crap, so he should probably be given time/benefit of the doubt for now, to see if things calm down. It's just unfortunate there has been a string of negativity of late.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 12:56 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:I'm entirely on board with the Dodson must go chat and make no bones about that. Yes there has been commercial improvement under his tenure but his track record of causing embarrassment to Scottish rugby when he opens his mouth in public is appalling, coupled with the fact that he is clearly a bully and a dictator.

As the head of the SRU his job security can't be de-coupled from the success of the team on the field, and 2019 was an awful year for Scotland. In no small part due to the underachievement of his personal pick for head coach. He's done his bit on the commercial side, it's now high time he jogged on before things get any worse for the SRU's reputation or the playing side's performance.

I think you are underplaying everything he's done, Scottish rugby has moved on significantly since he took over. I'm really not his personal cheerleader, which appears to be my role based on the last two posts, but it's easy to have short memories and only remember the crap he's done of late. Massive debt reduction, actual academies, sellouts at Murrayfield, increased funding for the pro teams. Yes he's not perfect and it would probably be best if he was kept away from the media, but you can't discount his successes.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 1:51 pm

Problem with saying we have massively underperformed on the pitch is that we have expectations now rather than a decade ago when things were in really bad shape. We have reached a point where we have depth in most positions compared to only having a couple of positions where we could survive an injury.

Dodson, for all the rubbish he has caused, has eliminated the debt, brought in good coaches at club level, put an academy system in place and started the Super Six, much criticised, that looks to be a step in the right direction with developing players. He had a go at starting a mechanism of loaning players with LS and Stade Nicois that has maybe not worked as well as it should have. Barring the Russell affair and a unique circumstance in Japan, he has generally been solid in pushing positive changes through and you can't blame him if something does not work because at least he took a chance.

Comparatively, the wealthiest union in the world managed to spend so much money that they had some difficulties/had its best team get done by financial doping and Wales has had two or three regions crises over the same period. Only the IRFU have been better run out of the Six Nations and looking worldwide, maybe NZ are the only other side to do as well off the pitch from 2010 - 2019.  

The question about Dodson is whether he can deliver in the next 5-10 years:

1) Stadia necessary for Glasgow and Edinburgh to push on and become Ulster/Exeter-esque
2) League stability on whether we are Pro whatever or a British-Irish League
3) Turn the Super Six into a proper breeding ground for late bloomers with investment in infrastructure key in that (A Mitre Cup/Currie Cup competition type)
4) Protect Scots place at the top table with the global calendar
5) At the end of 2020's, be on course for a viable third side

If we don't believe he can achieve that, when the SRU are about to get a huge cash injection, then he should go. Russell disagreeing with the coach is not his remit.


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Post by RDW on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 1:51 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:I'm entirely on board with the Dodson must go chat and make no bones about that. Yes there has been commercial improvement under his tenure but his track record of causing embarrassment to Scottish rugby when he opens his mouth in public is appalling, coupled with the fact that he is clearly a bully and a dictator.

As the head of the SRU his job security can't be de-coupled from the success of the team on the field, and 2019 was an awful year for Scotland. In no small part due to the underachievement of his personal pick for head coach. He's done his bit on the commercial side, it's now high time he jogged on before things get any worse for the SRU's reputation or the playing side's performance.

I think you are underplaying everything he's done, Scottish rugby has moved on significantly since he took over.  I'm really not his personal cheerleader, which appears to be my role based on the last two posts, but it's easy to have short memories and only remember the crap he's done of late.  Massive debt reduction, actual academies, sellouts at Murrayfield, increased funding for the pro teams.  Yes he's not perfect and it would probably be best if he was kept away from the media, but you can't discount his successes.
If we're crediting him with all the good things that have happened recently he similarly needs to hold ultimate responsibility for the bad things!

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Post by RDW on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 1:57 pm

trying to move back to this game if I may, I've just watched the Hogg interview and he does come across very well and is much more grounded than he was a few years ago. Time well tell if it's the right decision but at least he's starting to say the right things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL6aYUJCUe0

In other new neither Maitland or Taylor (not in the squad granted) are actually playing for Sarries on Sunday.

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Post by lostinwales on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 2:33 pm

Glove retweeted someone who was trying to make a timeline out of what happened on Sunday. If Russell was hitting the booze hard he did so in a very small window.


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Post by BigGee on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 3:26 pm

A few others plaing as well

Craig and Harris start for Gloucester

McGuigan starts for Sale

Exeter give Hoggy a week off fortunately and Sam Skinner continues his recovery with a bench spot.

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Post by RDW on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 3:57 pm

Chunky Weir is back!

Huge blow that Darcy Graham is injured - likely means Maitland and Kinghorn being our wingers. Bhattie, Gordon and McGuigan have also been released.

Worcester Warriors stand-off Duncan Weir has been added to the Scotland squad ahead of the national team’s Guinness Six Nations opener against Ireland in Dublin.
Weir earned the most recent of his 27 caps in the 2017 tournament and is the only addition to a 34-man squad, which will intensify preparations for the Test match in a training camp in Spain, leaving this Sunday.
Edinburgh wing Darcy Graham is the only injury-enforced absentee from the group after he sustained a knee injury in training at Oriam earlier this week.
Graham is not expected to feature in Scotland’s opening rounds of the championship after an MRI scan at Spire Murrayfield Hospital confirmed the extent of the ligament damage.
The remaining four not selected from the wider squad to travel are Edinburgh prop Jamie Bhatti, Glasgow Warriors back-row Tom Gordon, Sale Sharks wing Byron McGuigan and Racing 92 stand-off Finn Russell.

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Post by bsando on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 4:24 pm

Well looks like Sutherland or Dell to start against Ireland if Bhatti isn’t travelling to Spain. Both low on game time.

Weir is the right option to replace Russell. He’s been shouting loudly from Worcester and deserves the recall. 

For Ireland then

Dell
Brown
Fagerson
Cummings
Gray
Ritchie
Watson
Bradbury
Horne
Hastings
Maitland
Hutchinson
Jones
Steyn
Hogg

McInally, Sutherland, Nel, Gilchrist, CDP, Price, Weir, Kinghorn

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Post by BigGee on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 4:26 pm

Good for Duncy, his form for Worcester over the past two seasons has deserved it. He is the next best option after FR and AH. I am not sure he will play but worth having him in the squad to get him up to speed in case of any other injuries.

Looks like Sutherland has impressed and will bench then.

A little bit surprised that McGuigan has been dropped out so early, as he is the only other experienced winger in play now that Graham is out, he must have liked the look of Tagive and Steyn, one of whom may well bench now.

Tom Gordon was always a long shot, but at least they have had a look at him now.


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Post by bsando on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 4:28 pm

They must have been training hard, Graham injured and Watson lost a finger nail!?  Shocked

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Post by 123456789. on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 5:01 pm

This is rapidly turning into one of those years already. Although with Scotland every year is one of those years.

Kinghorn is not a bad replacement for Graham, in fact with England's size and Ireland's aerial bombardment he may even prove to be a better option. Especially now Russell won't be playing it makes sense to have as many playmakers as possible. Kinghorn has experience at fly-half, albeit limited.

Now the fog has lifted this may prove a blessing in disguise in the long term. We all know that Finn Russell is the best in the world on his day, we all know he is the best in the world at what he does best. We also know that he has an impetuous streak and there are flaws in his game. If Hastings plays to his potential he is still a very good player. He will gain more experience playing against Ireland and if he plays well it sends a clear signal to Russell. In short, if Hastings plays well, or *whisper it* we win next saturday then it sticks a rocket up Russell and a message to everyone that standards in camp are non-negotiable no matter who is involved.

On the other hand if it goes to sh*t against the Irish then I will be setting up a crowdfunder to to send a crate over to Paris to get Finn home for the England game, if need be on a booze cruise that pulls into Leith harbour on the day of the Calcutta cup.

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Post by bsando on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 5:29 pm

It’s true we have some good replacements, but it’s pretty gut wrenching to lose the two most in form Scottish backline players in a matter of 24 hours. Graham has been looking so sharp all season and I really hope we get to see him back sooner rather than later.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 5:32 pm

Russell starts for Racing this weekend, clearly keen to get back in the saddle

Weir and CDP start for Worcester

A lot of our players are going to be on a pitch this weekend!

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Post by RDW on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 5:46 pm

bsando wrote:They must have been training hard, Graham injured and Watson lost a finger nail!?  Shocked

Just saw his post on Instagram...

I'm not squeamish but the thought of a nail being ripped off - Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

I'd take a broken bone any day!

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 6:10 pm

Mon the Duncy

Plenty saying he won’t play. He’ll be on the bench. You simply can’t go into a 6ns game with one specialist 10 in the match day squad.

Hutch has no pro experience at 10 and Hogg has been shown not to be an international 10 stand in either.

The stars are aligning. Weir, CDP and Sutherland drive Scotland to a surprisingly good 6ns therefore cementing their place in Scotland for the next few years culminating in CDP lifting the Webb Ellis trophy as Scotland captain at the next World Cup

It could happen
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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 7:46 pm

Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread - Page 5 Ayhyau10

The best kicking prop in the world
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Post by TJ on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 8:17 pm

I would have Meatball over haircut any day of the week. Haircut is not as good as he thinks he is and his running up blind alleys wil cost us dear in internationals. He simply is not ready for international duty yet and unless he stops trying to be Finn may never be

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 8:42 pm

Weir is one of those likeable players who can do a job whilst not being overly flash.

He's not very often let himself down. Especially in recent times at Worcester. Looking forward to seeing him back in a Scotland shirt actually.
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Post by RDW on Fri 24 Jan 2020, 9:55 pm

Sam Skinner back for Exeter this weekend. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw him at some point this tournament.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 2:04 am

You kinda get the impression from this post that Irish fans don't give a Poopie about the game or they've just left the building. It's all Scottish fans and nothing else.

Worrying times for Irish rugby.

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Post by TJ on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 6:18 am

most posters have left the building.

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 9:06 am

Pot Hale wrote:You kinda get the impression from this post that Irish fans don't give a Poopie about the game or they've just left the building.    It's all Scottish fans and nothing else.

Worrying times for Irish rugby.  


Just think it was considered good manners to let the Scottish boys at it about Russellgate.  It would be distasteful under such circumstances to talk about an upcoming rugby game against our two Nations - Most Unbecoming indeed!
Now where's me Spiffing Frown of Exactitude emoticon to go with me formal pomp? oh yeah   Oops!, that's not it, is it.

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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 9:52 am

I felt until the teams are announced I would just sit and watch this epic Scottish drama unfold. It's worthy of being Macbeth sequel.
But I fear little Duncan

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Post by BigGee on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 9:59 am

I mean what could be remotely entairtaining for Irish fans about watching Scotland self destruct before such a big game?

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 10:28 am

So irish fans, who do you think will start? What do you think your points per minute will be against the hardest attack defence in the world? (my bet is 0.75). Will we see an irish revival to number one after another meh world cup?
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Post by bsando on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 10:59 am

Irish fans right now

Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread - Page 5 1347041234

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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 11:13 am

Honestly I'm hoping to see a bit more attack from us, not talking 7s throw the ball around but maybe a bit more inside the opponent's 22 rather than pic and drive and the odd 2 meter pass.
I would love to see a back 3 of Stockdale larmour and Addison and if Cooney dosent start I shall be very annoyed. And if big Stu partners Ringrose in the centre's I will be delighted

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 11:27 am

Given that nobody has seen Ireland play yet post-high influencer Joe, it's all a cloud of speculation, guesswork and hope..... incidentally, much like everyday of Joe's term!  Whistle
 'Which Ireland will turn up?', was often the cry as one week we'd steamroll the ABs, and the next week they'd kick the absolute bejaysus out of us.
But anyway, guesswork based on hunches about Farrell, Catt and player crew.  

Farrell it is said presided over the old Ireland as much as Schmidt did.  Well for me, remembering body language through those times, I think not.  Farrell always cut a very aloof, distant, pensive but isolated figure in the Irish system to date.  Now maybe he's just a quiet man, such as myself..... Shocked yes, in reality, very quiet.  Hard to believe for some with my record in here but there you go.  Anyway, maybe he is just a silent type but I saw it as him strictly doing his coaching duty, not getting involved too much in overall tactics, staying mostly aloof from the drama between Joe and the press .... biding his time.

So, in style terms I think Ireland will look different.  In what way, we can only guess.  But given we have Englishmen in two central roles now, I think Ireland will be less coy, less guarded, less interested in 'pacing' themselves through a competition.  I don't think that kinda philosophy sits well with the English.  If they can beat you, they'll certainly try in as direct a fashion as possible.  
I keep saying they're honest.  So I think - hope - that Ireland, if they have the ability to win a game in the first place, they'll be much more ruthless about proving it.  Overall, through Schmidt's tenure, we were viewed accurately as a defensive team sucking up pressure from more attack based sides.  I think that perception at least might be turned on its head.  But of course effectiveness of Ireland as a genuine attack side will be the big question that needs answering.

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Post by profitius on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 11:40 am

NeilyBroon wrote:So irish fans, who do you think will start? What do you think your points per minute will be against the hardest attack defence in the world? (my bet is 0.75). Will we see an irish revival to number one after another meh world cup?


The only thing I would be confident of is a change of style. Farrell has stated he's his own man and Mike Catt isn't going to coaching his team to play like Schmidt.


I would hope that Farrell is a bit like Gatland in the sense of getting the players to perform.


I'm not too fussed about who starts. I think theres been a lot of hysteria about some players being off form although I do think the team could do with freshening up just for the sake of drawing a line between Schmidts Ireland and Farrell's.


I would be surprised if the buzz in the squad isn't back.
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Post by RDW on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 11:41 am

So is it a case or evolution or revolution for Ireland? Schmidt's tactics didn't please everyone but let's face it you had the best ever era of Irish rugby under his watch. Yes you fell well short in the world cup (again!) But that's a very high hard stick to judge against.

Of course a more pertinent question is probably does the next generation fit that mould? Looking at the players coming through, probably not as much as the ones they're replacing.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 11:44 am

Well looking at Leinster and Ulster this season that could work really well for you. Especially if you maintain the physicality that Ireland have had in the past. I guess what would concern me is Sexton as captain but is that like Scotland with Hogg, lack of other options? He didnt look particularly good during the WC so I feel its a position Ireland should freshen up, although if Cooney plays arguably you should have a relatively senior playmaker outside.
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Post by 123456789. on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 12:25 pm

Mike Catt is an odd one, the sort of Nick De Luca of coaches from what I can see. Everyone involved with him says he's brilliant but to date I'm not sure he's actually really done anything.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 12:35 pm

Bit like a Dean Ryan of the backs, youre right, difficult to say what his impact is. At least with backs coaches like Hodge you know you'll get guff no matter how good the players are.
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Post by BigGee on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 5:13 pm

Neither Craig nor Harris stood out in a pretty flat Gloucester performance against Bristol today when they were well beaten.

I suspect the fact they played today and looked a bit fatigued might well mean that neither of them will play next week, they both looked like they needed a week off.

It is actually pretty tough on all the players who played this week, even more so for those who were involved in Euro games last week. I suspect that means he may favour the Scottish based players a bit more for this game and the English based players will work their way into the mix in subsequent games.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 5:28 pm

Maybe something like this:

1. Dell - not exactly been overplayed this year
2. Brown
3. Fagerson Z
4. Gray
5. Cummings
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Bradbury - might have been CDP if he had not played today
9. Price
10. Hastings
11. Maitland - got weekend off
12. Johnson
13. Jones
14. Kinghorn
15. Hogg - also got week off

Subs

Sutherland - big chance to make a mark
McInally
Nel
Gilchrist
Crosbie - or Haining if he prefers a big carrier, can Bradbury last a whole 80 mins?
Horne G
Weir/Hutchinson - depending who has come out of the weekend better
Steyn - Harris also played today

I think Tonie will want his team finalised pretty early in the week, he may well know it already and can't wait to see what kind of shape the ones who played today will come back in. They will get a week to freshen up and may come into the mix for the England game if injuries or from dictate.

He may then freshen up the whole squad for the Italy game in the middle week. Taylor and Skinner may come back in then and be in contention. That might be the game to chuck in a new cap or to experiment a little bit.

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Post by RDW on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 5:33 pm

I'd go with that team biggee. Hutchinson has to be involved somewhere IMO

In other news SHC started for Lyon today in their win over Toulon - they're leading the Top 14 so he must be doing ok! Hopefully he gets a permanent contract and can become our genuine 3rd choice. We could do with it not being Pyrgos...

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Post by 123456789. on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 6:42 pm

I watched a bit of the Northampton-Lyon game and SHC was really very good. I think he has the potential to be first choice if he gets a run together. He has a better kicking game than Price and Horne. Potential a sort of Laidlaw equivalent with a running game.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 6:49 pm

123456789. wrote:I watched a bit of the Northampton-Lyon game and SHC was really very good. I think he has the potential to be first choice if he gets a run together. He has a better kicking game than Price and Horne. Potential a sort of Laidlaw equivalent with a running game.

He always was a good player, but inconsistent. I think he may have missed the boat for Scotland now with the 2 incumbents and Dobie and Sheil coming up fast on the rails though.

He needs to get himself a permanent contract and regular game time before thinking about Scotland again though, putting himself in the shop window can only be helpful though and hope someone takes a punt on him.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 8:10 pm

Ireland are going to be Ireland once again.   Farrell won't/can't forget where he's come from and will still approach things from a defensive mindset.  So it all depends on how much Catt can enliven the backline to do something creative, and perhaps lift the ban on no more than one consecutive offload in a game.  

Given Murray has slightly improved in the last few weeks, Farrell is likely to stick with the tried and trusted for his first 6N test and so hand Conor the 9 shirt .  Cooney has had little or no experience of starting a big competition game, and Farrell may not want to start now.   Sexton is now declared fit to start the game, so presumably the captain starts.   Outside of him, Farrell, influenced by Catt, may go with a Henshaw/Ringrose midfield since it's an established good provincial partnership.    The back three could be more of the same or again Catt might get a tweak, and instead of Earls and Stockdale, use Larmour, Conway, D Kearney and Addison in the mix.  I'd love if he included Balacounne, just for the hell of it - the guy has got a great set of wheels.   And Scotland won't have Graham.  

So possibly Larmour on one wing, and put Addison at the back.   I'd really like to see Catt develop a fearsome Irish back three in the next 12-18 months that would have teams guessing/wondering from time to time.   Balacounne, Larmour and Addison would be tasty.

Up front, there's no place for the supposed No 2 in waiting in the squad - either Scannell or Cronin - so that should be interesting to see if he goes with the more experienced Herring, or tries out Kelleher (assuming hand injury is sorted).  In the locks, there's only 3 who I'd rely on so either Henderson or Toner partners Ryan, and the other on the bench.  

In the backrow, Farrell can again stick or twist.   Stick means POM, vdF and Stander.  Twist means Fogarty/Easterby persuade Farrell to use Doris or Deegan (more likely Doris) at No 8, and either POM or Stander play 6, and the other on the bench.   The notion that he'd pick an existing combo of an all-Leinster backrow is highly unlikely.  

Might be a couple of surprises on the bench.  Presumably, Porter gets the TH spot, and it might be a battle between Kilcoyne/Healy as to who starts at LH.  If Murray starts, then does Cooney get a good cameo (more than 20 minutes) to finish out the game?  And finally - will it be Burns or Byrne who replace Sexton at some point?

My 23 for what it's worth:

Addison, Larmour, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale, Sexton, Murray
Doris, Stander, vdF, Ryan, Henderson, Furlong, Kelleher, Healy
Reps: Herring, Kilcoyne, Porter, Dillane, POM, Cooney, Byrne, Conway


Last edited by Pot Hale on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by RDW on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 9:53 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51250135

Some more chat from Tom English. There's still a lot of unknowns but it seems to be pretty much confirmed that the actions against him were player led, and this blow up hasn't come as a surprise to them.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 10:15 pm

RDW wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51250135

Some more chat from Tom English. There's still a lot of unknowns but it seems to be pretty much confirmed that the actions against him were player led, and this blow up hasn't come as a surprise to them.

Who knew a player from Ayr might not be right in the head....

If there's a bright side, it might bring the squad closer together and make them more cohesive. Hastings is no Russell, but he's a talented player and after Russell and second best fly half we've had since Toonie himself.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 10:29 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51250135

Some more chat from Tom English. There's still a lot of unknowns but it seems to be pretty much confirmed that the actions against him were player led, and this blow up hasn't come as a surprise to them.

Who knew a player from Ayr might not be right in the head....

If there's a bright side, it might bring the squad closer together and make them more cohesive. Hastings is no Russell, but he's a talented player and after Russell and second best fly half we've had since Toonie himself.

You would hope it would have that effect and it is good that the other players are not happy about Russell's behaviour. No player is bigger than the team and he might find it harder to get his team mates back on board than his coach.

I am actually less worried about Hastings starting than most people it would seem. As FES says, he is a much better FH than many others who have started for Scotland in recent history. Having said that, I do want FR to have a slice of humble pie and come back into the fold as well, if he can get over this, it might be the making of him as well.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 10:36 pm

Agree. I'd love Russell to man up, apologise and agree to bench against England. We might need him for the second half again....

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 25 Jan 2020, 10:57 pm

So its nearly exactly as we thought. This could be career ending for both toonie and russell if theyre not careful, especially for russell if toonie is forced out and replaced by someone even more stubborn like cockers.
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Post by TJ on Sun 26 Jan 2020, 5:12 am

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18187289.david-barnes-cutting-finn-russell-adrift-catastrophic-scottish-rugby/

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 26 Jan 2020, 9:32 am

Firstly, clap well done, a Tramptastic thread.

Secondly, on a night of very fine margins Glasgow had a three on two overlap on Leinster's line to go two scores ahead in a Pro14 final that would eventually be decided by 7 points. The young, inexperienced, naive, Scottish 10 showed a dummy and went for the line. The old, wily, experienced Irish 10 ignored the dummy and nailed his man. Turnover to Leinster and Glasgow missed their chance of taking what would surely have been an unassailable lead. Will Hastings find redemption in Dublin on Saturday? This could be his defining moment: he steps up and controls the game in a very hostile environment against a great stand off and the Scotland jersey is his for the foreseeable future OR he blows it, Sexton runs the match and Wee Duncy starts against England.

If Hastings steps up then Toonie can sit back and wait for Dancer to "do a Hoggy" and grow up enough to appear contrite. If Hastings shows he is as brittle as a deep frozen Curly Wurly then Toonie is on his way out and Dancer will dictate the terms of his return. Home games played in Paris and Simon McZebo on the wing for starters.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun 26 Jan 2020, 10:21 am

NeilyBroon wrote:So its nearly exactly as we thought. This could be career ending for both toonie and russell if theyre not careful, especially for russell if toonie is forced out and replaced by someone even more stubborn like cockers.

Gatland will take a dim view of this as well. I'm sure Russell's ego will have one eye on the Lions in South Africa.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 26 Jan 2020, 10:40 am

It seems like Finn was making some conciliatory noises in his interview after the Racing v Castres match yesterday, in which he played the full 80 mins and they won well.

Suggested he was on the end of a phone for any advice required and would maybe try and talk to Hastings.

That is not a bad first step to put out there and hopefully it will get followed up. It is really hard to believe he does not want to get this sorted out as well





































































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