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Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread

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Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread - Page 7 Empty Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread

Post by Tramptastic Tue 21 Jan 2020, 1:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND V SCOTLAND

1st of February 2020 16:45 Kick off

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Pascal Gauzere (France)
Assistant 2: Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

Ireland: 15 Jordan Larmour, 14 Andrew Conway, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 Jacob Stockdale, 10 Jonathan Sexton (c), 9 Conor Murray, 8 Caelan Doris, 7 Josh van der Flier, 6 CJ Stander, 5 James Ryan, 4 Iain Henderson, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Rob Herring, 1 Cian Healy
Replacements: 16 Ronan Kelleher, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Andrew Porter, 19 Devin Toner, 20 Peter O’Mahony, 21 John Cooney, 22 Ross Byrne, 23 Robbie Henshaw

Scotland: 15 Stuart Hogg (c), 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Huw Jones, 12 Sam Johnson, 11 Blair Kinghorn, 10 Adam Hastings, 9 Ali Price, 8 Nick Haining, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 Jamie Ritchie, 5 Jonny Gray, 4 Scott Cummings, 3 Zander Fagerson, 2 Fraser Brown, 1 Rory Sutherland
Replacements: 16 Stuart McInally, 17 Allan Dell, 18 Simon Berghan, 19 Ben Toolis, 20 Cornell du Preez, 21 George Horne, 22 Rory Hutchinson, 23 Chris Harris

Perennial World Cup Quarter Finalists vs A Team With No Clear Strategy That Doesn't Currently Play To It's Strengths, Please Come Back Vern

Historical head to head data is useless as Scotland won for the 1st hundred years but Ireland have been dead good since the year 2000, except in 2010 at Croke Park which tells you Dan Parks is the finest rugby player Scotland has ever poached from Australia.

New head coach for Ireland in Farrell vs Townsend with new back room staff

Captain Sexton vs Captain Hogg - Eurgh, there's going to be so much moaning at the ref.

I'm looking forward to seeing a healthy amount of abuse in the thread below, please enjoy.


Last edited by Tramptastic on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 11:40 am; edited 5 times in total

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Post by 123456789. Mon 27 Jan 2020, 6:05 pm

I think that interview was ultimately kicking the ball back into Russell's camp. I think if Townsend had made his mind up on the matter with regard to Russell featuring in the Six Nations he would have said so. The onus, from Townsend's perspective, is probably for Russell to come to him and say he's sorry and that he's in the wrong. Evidently Russell feels a bit hard done by. It remains to be seen if he can suck it up and bottle his pride.

Thing is if you're Finn Russell, and your fed up of Dodson after he's shafted your Dad and you've lost faith in Townsend do you bank on this Six Nations following the current trajectory and coming back into the fold and being part of the rebuild?

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Post by BigGee Mon 27 Jan 2020, 6:10 pm

123456789. wrote:

Thing is if you're Finn Russell, and your fed up of Dodson after he's shafted your Dad and you've lost faith in Townsend do you bank on this Six Nations following the current trajectory and coming back into the fold and being part of the rebuild?

Very dangerous game to play that, you can very quickly be labelled part of the problem (maverick player, impossible to manage) rather than part of the solution, even more so if Scotland do actually turn up and play well, which they are more than capable of.

Once you are seen as a prima donna, it is a very hard label to remove!

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Post by 123456789. Mon 27 Jan 2020, 6:15 pm

BigGee wrote:
123456789. wrote:

Thing is if you're Finn Russell, and your fed up of Dodson after he's shafted your Dad and you've lost faith in Townsend do you bank on this Six Nations following the current trajectory and coming back into the fold and being part of the rebuild?

Very dangerous game to play that, you can very quickly be labelled part of the problem (maverick player, impossible to manage) rather than part of the solution, even more so if Scotland do actually turn up and play well, which they are more than capable of.

Once you are seen as a prima donna, it is a very hard label to remove!

I'm not saying he should do that, just that he might. It's quite evident that he wants people to know that he doesn't care what he thinks. He's spoken about how he feels liberated by not being employed by the SRU anymore. He obviously doesn't feel any degree of affection for the governing body, though I am not sure anybody does. If it becomes a political thing, there's a significant degree of discontent he can tap into to portray himself as the victim.

I thought Fraser Brown's comments were actually far more interesting than Townsend's.

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Post by carpet baboon Mon 27 Jan 2020, 6:17 pm

Sounds like Doris will start for Ireland.
So either POM or stander dropped/benched

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Post by TJ Mon 27 Jan 2020, 6:18 pm

RDW - He played OK in the main but nothing special and he did his usual trick of running up blind alleys and throwing cut out passes that cut out all the space

Don't get me wrong - he is a fine prospect but far from the finished article.  I think the Irish defense will eat him for breakfast.

I'll happily acknowledge if I am wrong but my bet is that more than once he gets caught behind the gainline and coughs up the ball

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Post by TJ Mon 27 Jan 2020, 6:18 pm

I thought Fraser Brown's comments were actually far more interesting than Townsend's.

I missed them - what were they?

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Post by 123456789. Mon 27 Jan 2020, 7:11 pm

TJ wrote:
I thought Fraser Brown's comments were actually far more interesting than Townsend's.

I missed them - what were they?

Fraser Brown STV wrote:
Experienced hooker Fraser Brown said the team was not being affected by Russell’s controversial departure and said that fans concerned about the loss of Scotland’s key play-maker should place their faith in the players who remain – such as Glasgow Warriors fly half Adam Hastings.

Brown said: “Obviously what happened on Sunday was disappointing but the guys here all want to pull in the same direction and achieve together.

“We were pretty clear as a team what we wanted off the pitch. We were clear with standards, a code that we must adhere to and it is up to each individual to live up to that and not to let down your teammates.”

Asked about the argument that Russell’s absence would weaken the Scots, Brown said: “I think that’s pretty disingenuous towards the other players we have in our squad.

“You can’t get away from the fact that Finn is a quality rugby player but I think Adam has also been fantastic at Glasgow over the last month.

“Playing with him week-in and week-out I have been lucky enough to see the development in his game.

SNS

By Jamie Borthwick
Published 27th January 2020 at 4:57 pm


By Jamie Borthwick
Jamie.borthwick@stv.tv
jamiekborthwick
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More on this story
Finn Russell walks out on Scotland over alleged booze breach
Townsend: There's a lot more to come from this Scotland team
The door is open for Finn Russell to return to the Scotland squad – but the fly half must commit to the team’s code of conduct, according to Gregor Townsend.

Russell left Scotland’s Six Nations camp on Thursday after Townsend informed the 27-year-old he was being left out of the Ireland match following an incident at the team hotel in Edinburgh last Sunday night.

Asked if the ball was in Russell’s court to get back into the national team’s plans, the head coach said: “Finn, in that two-and-a-half-hour meeting I had with him on Monday night, was aware of the consequences of his actions and aware he wouldn’t be involved against Ireland.

“We had a really good conversation after that information was passed to him.

“Anybody that wants to come in and put their hand up for selection – form is part it, and ability, but it is also being able to live up to the team standards. Anybody out the team must agree to that and accept that.”

Townsend revealed for the first time his view of the events that led to his stand-off being disciplined.

He said: “I was in a coaches’ room until about 11.30pm but I did say hello to Finn when he arrived with Sean Maitland and during that time Finn was drinking and a couple of players had told him to stop drinking.


“I saw him around about quarter to twelve. He decided to leave and his parents picked him up.

“Before he left he had about a five minute conversation with me and we didn’t see him until the following evening.”

Experienced hooker Fraser Brown said the team was not being affected by Russell’s controversial departure and said that fans concerned about the loss of Scotland’s key play-maker should place their faith in the players who remain – such as Glasgow Warriors fly half Adam Hastings.

Brown said: “Obviously what happened on Sunday was disappointing but the guys here all want to pull in the same direction and achieve together.

“We were pretty clear as a team what we wanted off the pitch. We were clear with standards, a code that we must adhere to and it is up to each individual to live up to that and not to let down your teammates.”

Asked about the argument that Russell’s absence would weaken the Scots, Brown said: “I think that’s pretty disingenuous towards the other players we have in our squad.

“You can’t get away from the fact that Finn is a quality rugby player but I think Adam has also been fantastic at Glasgow over the last month.

“Playing with him week-in and week-out I have been lucky enough to see the development in his game.


“He is playing so well, a much-improved communicator on the pitch, he knows how to organise his game and direct his team the way he wants.

“We have still got plenty of quality operators in our squad, the focus for us is just about how we put the best team on the park and how we produce our best rugby.”

Seems like the players decided between them they weren't going to be be on the booze so much anymore because of how rubbish they've been. I do wonder if Finn Russell perhaps made the point that they might be losing because of the aimless kicking rather than a few extra pints a couple of weeks before the game.

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Post by BigGee Mon 27 Jan 2020, 7:39 pm

If the players are truly closing ranks about this then that can only be a good thing.

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Post by NeilyBroon Mon 27 Jan 2020, 7:43 pm

Well it at least gives us a clearer indication on Saturday of what's what. Hope that a line can be drawn under the whole affair and we see some good performances out of the players at least for morale.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 27 Jan 2020, 8:06 pm

BigGee wrote:If the players are truly closing ranks about this then that can only be a good thing.

Totally agree. Time will tell, but a siege mentality can be a powerful thing.

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Post by TJ Mon 27 Jan 2020, 8:13 pm

Ta for the transcript.

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Post by jimbopip Mon 27 Jan 2020, 8:18 pm

Two points to consider, gentlemen. chin

Firstly .
Haircut's performance against Sale's Under 14 development side last week. Just before kick off I commented to Bru and Baz the ex-nippy no.9 that we should keep an eye on Sale's 10; one Cameron Redpath who could possibly be in the running for a Scotland (or England) cap in the not too distant. Well, that was the last time we mentioned him that evening. Simply because Haircut ran the game, totally. Now I realise Jonny Sexton and Ireland may be a teeny step up from Redpath and Sale reserves but it was a very impressive performance without being all bells and whistles. Control like that on Saturday would be a welcome sight to these jaded old eyes of mine.

Secondly.
All the discussion of the Finn-Toonie brouhaha keeps coming back to "aimless kicking, too rigid gameplan reliant on kicking". For the past 47 years under the leadership of Frodo The Ponderous we have developed a kind of collective Stockholm syndrome. I do realise that in real time Frodo wasn't scrum half for 47 years....but when he's at the back of a ruck time slows down. We all love Frodo. He gave everything every time he took the field. he was a true leader. All of this is true. Unfortunately he was also exceptionally slow. When a team's attacking moves are all based on running off 10 then quick ball is essential. In modern rugby, once a defence is set and aligned breaking that defensive line is extremely difficult. Most coaches drill their players to play the percentages: kick the ball into their last third and pressure them until either they cough it up or they kick to us and we start again. Every time Frodo lined up at 9 in the latter part of his Scotland career teams ignored him as an attacking threat and flooded the 10-12 channel. Most of Frodo's box kicks were a result of him realising that there was no point in passing to 10 as he was about to be blitzed. Good teams will go through four or five phases generating quick ball until the defence is stretched, misaligned or outnumbered and then they would strike. The slow ball Scotland tended to generate meant that the opposition rarely got pulled out of shape but we ended up losing players at the bottom of rucks which often means that either the next attack scores or the ball gets turned over. Or you box kick or kick it deep and start all over again. Our Stockholm Syndrome was that we all deeply admired Frodo for his undying commitment to the cause: he was like Al Strokosh playing at 9! Just not as quick round the fringes.
Now Frodo has retired and suddenly there is a vacuum. What will we do? Do we run everything off 9? Do we keep kicking? Do we ever kick again?
We can guess Dancer's answers.
Toonie has taken a decision and my reading of it is; we're likely to lose in Dublin, 100% batshit Finnsanity would be playing into their hands, then I have to pick them up for the England game Headscratch No. Let's go for a 10 who might bring an element of control and structure; if we lose I bring Finn in next week and that in itself picks everyone up. If this sounds too Machiavellian bear in mind that Haircut must be thrown in at the deep end sooner or later. So why not now? Finn would have been on the bench if he had been having a mare of a game.
To kick or not to kick? is not the question.
The 9 we pick will determine whether we can play to our strengths in the backs, as it always has done. Thankfully Aldi Price and Little Big Horne will keep the Irish defence honest and may allow our centres to run off 10.
To my mind the big difference between Dancer and Haircut is one of them tends to use kicking to control the game and one tends to kick because there's nothing on. That and the fact that Dancer is a one off, in terms of talent. Breathtaking talent.

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Post by 123456789. Mon 27 Jan 2020, 8:37 pm

Finn Russell is a quality player who is second in ability, commitment and individual excitement to perhaps one Scottish fly-half of the last two decades. Who is the superior fly-half you may ask? The usual candidates fly past Greig Tonks? Gordon Ross? Tom Heathcote?? No the answer is one Daniel Arthur Parks. How many caps before Mr Parks had his alcohol meltdown? 47. So in many respects we can count ourselves lucky that we got an extra two games out of Finn Russell before the booze called. What's more at least Finn had the good sense to get his parents to drive the car for him. Now Russell has had his 'Dan Parks moment' let's hope, next weekend, Adam Hastings can repeat Waltzing Daniel's antics the last time he played for Scotland in Dublin.

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Post by jimbopip Mon 27 Jan 2020, 8:42 pm

Desperate Dan was a massively under-rated 10. Couldn't tackle a fish supper. Couldn't run for a bus. But could control a game of rugby better than Nigel Owens.

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Post by 123456789. Mon 27 Jan 2020, 8:51 pm

jimbopip wrote:Desperate Dan was a massively under-rated 10. Couldn't tackle a fish supper. Couldn't run for a bus. But could control a game of rugby better than Nigel Owens.

Completely agree with you on that. I think the last four years would have been far smoother if he had been around. Would have been brilliant to have three sets of half-backs. Price and Russell to start. Laidlaw and Parks to see the game through in the last 20. Horne and Hastings to develop.

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Post by Gooseberry Mon 27 Jan 2020, 9:14 pm

jimbopip wrote:
Secondly.
All the discussion of the Finn-Toonie brouhaha keeps coming back to "aimless kicking, too rigid gameplan reliant on kicking". For the past 47 years under the leadership of Frodo The Ponderous we have developed a kind of collective Stockholm syndrome. I do realise that in real time Frodo wasn't scrum half for 47 years....but when he's at the back of a ruck time slows down. We all love Frodo. He gave everything every time he took the field. he was a true leader. All of this is true. Unfortunately he was also exceptionally slow. When a team's attacking moves are all based on running off 10 then quick ball is essential. In modern rugby, once a defence is set and aligned breaking that defensive line is extremely difficult. Most coaches drill their players to play the percentages: kick the ball into their last third and pressure them until either they cough it up or they kick to us and we start again.  Every time Frodo lined up at 9 in the latter part of his Scotland career teams ignored him as an attacking threat and flooded the 10-12 channel. Most of Frodo's box kicks were a result of him realising that there was no point in passing to 10 as he was about to be blitzed. Good teams will go through four or five phases generating quick ball until the defence is stretched, misaligned or outnumbered and then they would strike. The slow ball Scotland tended to generate meant that the opposition rarely got pulled out of shape but we ended up losing players at the bottom of rucks which often means that either the next attack scores or the ball gets turned over. Or you box kick or kick it deep and start all over again. Our Stockholm Syndrome was that we all deeply admired Frodo for his undying commitment to the cause: he was like Al Strokosh playing at 9! Just not as quick round the fringes.
Now Frodo has retired and suddenly there is a vacuum. What will we do? Do we run everything off 9? Do we keep kicking? Do we ever kick again?
We can guess Dancer's answers.
Toonie has taken a decision and my reading of it is; we're likely to lose in Dublin, 100% batshit Finnsanity would be playing into their hands, then I have to pick them up for the England game Headscratch No. Let's go for a 10 who might bring an element of control and structure; if we lose I bring Finn in next week and that in itself picks everyone up. If this sounds too Machiavellian bear in mind that Haircut must be thrown in at the deep end sooner or later. So why not now? Finn would have been on the bench if he had been having a mare of a game.
To kick or not to kick? is not the question.
The 9 we pick will determine whether we can play to our strengths in the backs, as it always has done. Thankfully Aldi Price and Little Big Horne will keep the Irish defence honest and may allow our centres to run off 10.
To my mind the big difference between Dancer and Haircut is one of them tends to use kicking to control the game and one tends to kick because there's nothing on. That and the fact that Dancer is a one off, in terms of talent. Breathtaking talent.


Short version ...noone moaned that England kicked too much in the first half of that game, because they were winning doing it. Their stunning world cup victory screw up was built on a rigid tactical kicking game.

I guess the moral of this story is keep winning and you're right. Bit of a problem if you're the Scotland coach, or fly half....or getting pooed on by South Africa.

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Post by 123456789. Mon 27 Jan 2020, 9:21 pm

Apparently Finn Russell is now in Dubai. Not exactly keeping his head down.

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Post by BigGee Mon 27 Jan 2020, 9:28 pm

Take BVC off the prospective list of next Scotland coaches, accounts in France suggest he is going to be coaching Fiji next.

Now that's a team who could do with a dose of his pragmatism. Do they have any rabbits on Fiji?

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 27 Jan 2020, 9:30 pm

123456789. wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Desperate Dan was a massively under-rated 10. Couldn't tackle a fish supper. Couldn't run for a bus. But could control a game of rugby better than Nigel Owens.

Completely agree with you on that. I think the last four years would have been far smoother if he had been around. Would have been brilliant to have three sets of half-backs. Price and Russell to start. Laidlaw and Parks to see the game through in the last 20. Horne and Hastings to develop.

Laidlaw and Parks??? Seriously??? I'd sooner listen to my butler when I ask him whether he had a nice weekend.....

Honestly. Parks was a fine kicker of a rugby ball. Back in the pocket, with no possibility of the opposition getting close to him, he could kick the leather off it. Given that we had Morrison at 12, this was a good tactic; starve GDog of any opportunity to embarrass himself. But with the backline that we currently have, I wouldn't have Parks anywhere near the squad. This squad has a feather weight pack and a defense to be proud of, but only in the same way that Weegies are "proud" of their city (which is to say not really, they'd rather live in Edinburgh), so my goodness we need to score 20 points plus to win games. Damn hard to do that in increments of 3, particularly if Wilson is playing and handing the opposition 9 easy penalty points and 10 minutes against 14 men.

Laidlaw and Parks both had fine moments in a Scotland jersey, but I'm rather thankful they were in the past.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 27 Jan 2020, 9:31 pm

123456789. wrote:Apparently Finn Russell is now in Dubai. Not exactly keeping his head down.

Just the place for a boozer!! He's probably visiting GC for some legal advice....

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 27 Jan 2020, 9:34 pm

BigGee wrote:Take BVC off the prospective list of next Scotland coaches, accounts in France suggest he is going to be coaching Fiji next.

Now that's a team who could do with a dose of his pragmatism. Do they have any rabbits on Fiji?

Surely we can outbid Fiji!! The bigger problem is having the SRU eat humble pie. Don't think that's in Dodson's repertoire, he would probably charge extra for that....

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Post by BigGee Mon 27 Jan 2020, 9:40 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
123456789. wrote:Apparently Finn Russell is now in Dubai. Not exactly keeping his head down.

Just the place for a boozer!! He's probably visiting GC for some legal advice....

Could he afford him?

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 27 Jan 2020, 10:25 pm

BigGee wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
123456789. wrote:Apparently Finn Russell is now in Dubai. Not exactly keeping his head down.

Just the place for a boozer!! He's probably visiting GC for some legal advice....

Could he afford him?

Doubt the Racing wages would cover it, although if Mrs Russell took charge of the negotiations I'm sure GC would find it within his cold solicitor's heart to offer a small discount....

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Post by BigGee Mon 27 Jan 2020, 10:33 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
BigGee wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
123456789. wrote:Apparently Finn Russell is now in Dubai. Not exactly keeping his head down.

Just the place for a boozer!! He's probably visiting GC for some legal advice....

Could he afford him?

Doubt the Racing wages would cover it, although if Mrs Russell took charge of the negotiations I'm sure GC would find it within his cold solicitor's heart to offer a small discount....

A free consultation, whilst neglecting to inform him of the hourly rate, that sort of thing?

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Post by Pot Hale Mon 27 Jan 2020, 10:40 pm

Media 23 guess of Ireland squad announcement tomorrow at 1pm

Addison, Earls/Conway, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale, Sexton, Murray
Doris, Stander, vdF, Ryan, Henderson, Furlong, Herring, Kilcoyne
Reps: Kelleher, Healy, Porter, Dillane, POM/Deegan, Cooney, Byrne, Conway/Larmour

It's not clear if Larmour's injury has recovered well enough for him to start at 15, in which case he may get a spot on the wing ahead of Conway/Earls, or the 23 shirt. There'll also be dancing girls and naked sheep at half-time.
Similarly, Herring may get the nod to start in No 2, with uncapped Kelleher also returning from a hand injury.
All media saying that Doris has won the No 8 shirt off Stander, leaving Stander/POM to contest the 6 shirt.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 11:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 27 Jan 2020, 10:47 pm

BigGee wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
BigGee wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
123456789. wrote:Apparently Finn Russell is now in Dubai. Not exactly keeping his head down.

Just the place for a boozer!! He's probably visiting GC for some legal advice....

Could he afford him?

Doubt the Racing wages would cover it, although if Mrs Russell took charge of the negotiations I'm sure GC would find it within his cold solicitor's heart to offer a small discount....

A free consultation, whilst neglecting to inform him of the hourly rate, that sort of thing?

The hourly rate would be in Schedule XVIII on page 364.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 27 Jan 2020, 11:23 pm

Pot Hale wrote:There'll also be dancing girls and naked sheep at half-time.

Keep the sheep for the Welsh.....

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 28 Jan 2020, 12:06 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:There'll also be dancing girls and naked sheep at half-time.

Keep the sheep for the Welsh.....

No, no - the dancing girls are for you lot....
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Post by NeilyBroon Tue 28 Jan 2020, 6:45 am

Will there be katsu curry and irn bru? Asking for a friend.

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Post by RDW Tue 28 Jan 2020, 8:31 am

Gavin Hastings: If there’s no way back for Finn Russell it wouldn’t be worth thinking about
Confidence boost for junior!

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Post by EWT Spoons Tue 28 Jan 2020, 8:48 am

I know we've only heard one side of the story but it's getting harder and harder to feel that Finn is being hard done by. If toonie's version of events are accurate, then Finn's just decided to turn his back on his teammates and his country, after what was probably a fair punishment after missing training.

I hope there is a way back for Finn as sadly we're not blessed with an abundance of talented 10s and he's probably one of the best in europe, so double whammy in terms of a loss, but no player is bigger than the team, and if he can't accept that, then it's probably for the best he's not involved.

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Post by EWT Spoons Tue 28 Jan 2020, 8:49 am

RDW wrote:
Gavin Hastings: If there’s no way back for Finn Russell it wouldn’t be worth thinking about
Confidence boost for junior!

This will be unpopular as hell, but Gavin Hastings is a c*ck.  Scottish rugby legend, but off the field a total c*ck.

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Post by Blanko Tue 28 Jan 2020, 9:05 am

This is an incredible amount of discussion about one player. You’ve run most of us Irish ladds off with this.

It’s all a smokescreen anyway. All he did was ask Hogg to pass.

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Post by Tramptastic Tue 28 Jan 2020, 9:09 am

EWT Spoons wrote:
RDW wrote:
Gavin Hastings: If there’s no way back for Finn Russell it wouldn’t be worth thinking about
Confidence boost for junior!

This will be unpopular as hell, but Gavin Hastings is a c*ck.  Scottish rugby legend, but off the field a total c*ck.

He did miss the only kick that really mattered...

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Post by RDW Tue 28 Jan 2020, 9:11 am

Blanko wrote:This is an incredible amount of discussion about one player. You’ve run most of us Irish ladds off with this.

It’s all a smokescreen anyway. All he did was ask Hogg to pass.
You feckers haven't even started the hundreds of posts on who the best 13 is!

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Post by Tattie Scones RRN Tue 28 Jan 2020, 9:18 am

EWT Spoons wrote:
RDW wrote:
Gavin Hastings: If there’s no way back for Finn Russell it wouldn’t be worth thinking about
Confidence boost for junior!

This will be unpopular as hell, but Gavin Hastings is a c*ck.  Scottish rugby legend, but off the field a total c*ck.

Seconded. Right up his own erse.

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Post by bsando Tue 28 Jan 2020, 9:31 am

Russell has an incredible bag of tricks but he also takes risks. We saw in the RWC some of his failed grubber kicks put Scotland into desperate defence mode. 

One thing I like about Hastings a lot is his use of the cross field kick. Russell has started to use it a bit more as well but I think it’s become a much more important aspect of the game now with the aggressive rush defences we’re seeing. 

Maitland and Kinghorn are both great in the air and tall wingers. I’m hoping we’ll see plenty of high, Murrayesque box kicks and cross field kicks rather than the 9 > GG > Hastings > Johnson or Jones with .4 of a second to react before getting smashed by Aki or Ringrose.

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Post by Tattie Scones RRN Tue 28 Jan 2020, 9:39 am

Interesting reading views on kicking less. On the Thistle Rugby Podcast the other week, J Beattie made a valid point about the need for territorial kicking due to the fact that if you try going through the hands for multiple phases, by the time you get into the oppo 22, you're too knackered to implement the killer play that results in points.

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Post by NeilyBroon Tue 28 Jan 2020, 9:45 am

Agree but equally if youre constantly booting it back for the sake of it youre going to have to defend more, which is even more exhausting. Tactical kicks have their place after some phase play to create the spaces behind. Theres no point trying to trick a rush defence if noones had to rush up!

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Post by bsando Tue 28 Jan 2020, 9:56 am

That’s a good point Tattie, I’m sure we’ve seen that plenty of times before for Scotland. The Hue Jones try against France in 2018, everyone was cooked and looked relieved when he scored. That was through a long period of possession I think.

Scotland under Townsend love to go wide and get a grubber kick in either to touch or in field for someone to try and collect. That was the move that got jones in for a try against NZ in 2017 and it’s been used a lot since in various matches. It does however result in a waste of possession sometimes and good sides with strong set piece just secure the ball and clear their lines and Scotland have to start all over again.

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Post by Tramptastic Tue 28 Jan 2020, 10:24 am

Well here's where I'm at:

Zero expectations. Scotland are going to get hammered royally...

which means... we're in the perfect place for Scotland to exceed expectations and actually play well...

which means... we'll win and we're dark horses for the 6N...

Broken Record

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Post by RDW Tue 28 Jan 2020, 10:29 am

I don't think we'll win but I'd like to see a good performance. 

We're very much underdogs for the game so it would be a freak result if we did win, but that doesn't mean we should go down meekly like we did in the WC. 

I want Ireland to have to work bloody hard for their win and for us to show we've learned from our mistakes.

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Post by bsando Tue 28 Jan 2020, 11:17 am

That would be my wish too RDW, no soft losses all 6N as a minimum ask. I think Scotland have the better backline and have to take their game to Ireland. The last away match was in the balance before the Horne intercept, Scotland have to take those doubly rare away game chances.

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Post by eirebilly Tue 28 Jan 2020, 12:44 pm

Looks like Murray is set to get the nod at 9 ahead of Cooney. To me, even as an avid Munster fan, that is not good. Cooney has been the stand out Irish 9 this season and deserves the start.
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Post by sensisball Tue 28 Jan 2020, 1:26 pm

Maybe the Irish game plan will start off as per usual under Joe's tenure: keep ball, box kick and compete to recover the pill, and then go through 100's of phases until the opposition crumble. In our case that means conceding 4 tries after about 25 minutes. Then Cooney is brought on to apply the coup de grace( about 5 times) with his running game, implementing Farrell's new attacking patterns, and we end up on the wrong end of a prison shaming.

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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 28 Jan 2020, 1:31 pm

eirebilly wrote:Looks like Murray is set to get the nod at 9 ahead of Cooney. To me, even as an avid Munster fan, that is not good. Cooney has been the stand out Irish 9 this season and deserves the start.

I think Farrell is trying to maintain some continuity while introducing a few squad members. I don't think we've a hope of seeing Farrell's take on things until the summer tour at least. I'll gladly be proven wrong but I do think this 6 nations will see more Schmidt-ball with a little Farrell seasoning thrown in. Seasoning to taste if you will as you do with any fine dish.

P.S. Billy, how long was Cooney given to overtake Marmion in our little online bet? Did his time run out last year or am I still on for the win Smile

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Post by Collapse2005 Tue 28 Jan 2020, 1:31 pm

Great backrow, look forward to seeing how they get on. Thank god Stander is playing 6 again, bout time.

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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 28 Jan 2020, 1:32 pm

Aaaaand there's Sensisball beating me to that very point, I need to type faster.

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Post by eirebilly Tue 28 Jan 2020, 1:35 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Looks like Murray is set to get the nod at 9 ahead of Cooney. To me, even as an avid Munster fan, that is not good. Cooney has been the stand out Irish 9 this season and deserves the start.

I think Farrell is trying to maintain some continuity while introducing a few squad members. I don't think we've a hope of seeing Farrell's take on things until the summer tour at least. I'll gladly be proven wrong but I do think this 6 nations will see more Schmidt-ball with a little Farrell seasoning thrown in. Seasoning to taste if you will as you do with any fine dish.

P.S. Billy, how long was Cooney given to overtake Marmion in our little online bet? Did his time run out last year or am I still on for the win Smile

Ah here now, that bet ran out about 2 years ago and I won Very Happy



Strong side but again somebody has to tell just what it is about Bundee Aki. I just do not see him as the best 12 in Ireland by a longshot. There is 1 or 2 in Ulster and Munster that are far better than him in my opinion.
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Post by RDW Tue 28 Jan 2020, 1:40 pm

Ireland: J Larmour; A Conway, G Ringrose, B Aki, J Stockdale; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Herring, T Furlong; I Henderson, J Ryan; CJ Stander, J van der Flier, C Doris.
Replacements: R Kelleher, D Kilcoyne, A Porter, D Toner, P O'Mahony, J Cooney, R Byrne, R Henshaw.

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