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Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread

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Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread - Page 8 Empty Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread

Post by Tramptastic Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND V SCOTLAND

1st of February 2020 16:45 Kick off

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Pascal Gauzere (France)
Assistant 2: Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

Ireland: 15 Jordan Larmour, 14 Andrew Conway, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 Jacob Stockdale, 10 Jonathan Sexton (c), 9 Conor Murray, 8 Caelan Doris, 7 Josh van der Flier, 6 CJ Stander, 5 James Ryan, 4 Iain Henderson, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Rob Herring, 1 Cian Healy
Replacements: 16 Ronan Kelleher, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Andrew Porter, 19 Devin Toner, 20 Peter O’Mahony, 21 John Cooney, 22 Ross Byrne, 23 Robbie Henshaw

Scotland: 15 Stuart Hogg (c), 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Huw Jones, 12 Sam Johnson, 11 Blair Kinghorn, 10 Adam Hastings, 9 Ali Price, 8 Nick Haining, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 Jamie Ritchie, 5 Jonny Gray, 4 Scott Cummings, 3 Zander Fagerson, 2 Fraser Brown, 1 Rory Sutherland
Replacements: 16 Stuart McInally, 17 Allan Dell, 18 Simon Berghan, 19 Ben Toolis, 20 Cornell du Preez, 21 George Horne, 22 Rory Hutchinson, 23 Chris Harris

Perennial World Cup Quarter Finalists vs A Team With No Clear Strategy That Doesn't Currently Play To It's Strengths, Please Come Back Vern

Historical head to head data is useless as Scotland won for the 1st hundred years but Ireland have been dead good since the year 2000, except in 2010 at Croke Park which tells you Dan Parks is the finest rugby player Scotland has ever poached from Australia.

New head coach for Ireland in Farrell vs Townsend with new back room staff

Captain Sexton vs Captain Hogg - Eurgh, there's going to be so much moaning at the ref.

I'm looking forward to seeing a healthy amount of abuse in the thread below, please enjoy.


Last edited by Tramptastic on Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:40 am; edited 5 times in total

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Post by Pete330v2 Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:54 pm

AH now Billy surely I deserve a weeeee bit of credit Smile

I can't fathom Aki's starting role when the entity that is RingShaw works so well. Aki's composure can turn him into a penalty machine if he gets overly physical and Henshaw, for me is far better defensively, a perfect foil for Ringrose to work off. Aki must be doing the right things in training.
That's the backrow I had predicted. Doris has been outstanding, the best Irish qualified 8 in Ireland (Coetzee being the best of course Wink ) and I'm confident he'll step up to international duties seamlessly. I'd have started Kelleher for an all Leinster front row but Herring's been excellent for Ulster all season. Kelleher has always been outstanding when he's played IMO.

Still, a very good Ireland side that'll be very keen to put the RWC behind them with a few really good performances.

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Post by sensisball Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:56 pm

Strong looking Irish team. it will be interesting to see if Doris looks as effortless in a green jersey as he does in a blue one. He has been consistently outstanding this season. That back row looks like it might be the quickest unit Ireland have put out for a while. If we cough up loose ball around the contact then Ireland could have a field day.

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Post by eirebilly Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:58 pm

Am gutted for POM but realistically he was only going to start if he was given the Captaincy. CJ at 6 with Doris at 8 just seems to be more balanced. Just hope Doris can bring his provincial form to International level, if he can then Ireland will do well.

Ye get some credit there Pete, ye did make the call 2 years back thumbsup
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Post by theslosty Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:13 pm

Is Doris much of a lineout jumper?

I would've thought you either pair POM at Doris at 6 and 8, or Stander and Deegan as those pairs give you both carrying and lineout expertise. Maybe Farrell is trying to select a pack that will physically overwhelm Scotland again.


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Post by bsando Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:14 pm

This is going to be a fascinating contest. Murray and Sexton (Ages of 30/34) vs Horne and Hastings (Ages of 24/23). Very surprised to see POM on the bench, he’s been a thorn in Scotland’s side the past few seasons. Conway over Earls as well is a surprise for me. Earls is another who does well against Scotland usually.

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Post by RDW Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:18 pm

I'm just looking forward to the nickname Jimbo is going to come up with for Doris....

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Post by theslosty Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:21 pm

I believe Earls has a minor knee issue. Regardless Conway has been pushing him and Stockdale incredibly hard the past 18 months and more than deserves this start. I'd say he's the one real international class player Ireland have that other nations don't know so much about.
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Post by Pot Hale Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:26 pm

No surprises really in that selection.  If Ireland get on top first half then maybe Farrell will give a couple of newbies a decent amount of time in the second i.e. Cooney & Kelleher. If they’re behind, less so. Unless Herring and Murray have ‘mares.
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Post by Pete330v2 Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:22 pm

If Earls was fit I think he may have made it onto the starting XV but only by the finest of margins, probably down to his experience more than anything else. As it stands I think Conway's the right choice. Physical, extremely quick with both brain and feet and unreal in the air. He and Larmour would cause any defence nightmares so look out Scotland. I am very excited now that the selection news has sunk in.

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Post by Pete330v2 Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:31 pm

Pot Hale wrote:No surprises really in that selection.  If Ireland get on top first half then maybe Farrell will give a couple of newbies a decent amount of time in the second i.e. Cooney & Kelleher.   If they’re behind, less so. Unless Herring and Murray have ‘mares.

I think there's one surprise, Henshaw on the bench, I really don't see the value of him on the bench as he can only play at centre. The Henshaw at fullback experiment ended badly the last time so lets hope Larmour survives the 80 mins. Surely Addison would be a better option covering centre, wing and fullback, the latter position being his most devastating, one at which he excels.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:17 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:No surprises really in that selection.  If Ireland get on top first half then maybe Farrell will give a couple of newbies a decent amount of time in the second i.e. Cooney & Kelleher.   If they’re behind, less so. Unless Herring and Murray have ‘mares.

I think there's one surprise, Henshaw on the bench, I really don't see the value of him on the bench as he can only play at centre. The Henshaw at fullback experiment ended badly the last time so lets hope Larmour survives the 80 mins.  Surely Addison would be a better option covering centre, wing and fullback, the latter position being his most devastating, one at which he excels.
l.

Conway and Stockdale can cover 15 as well. Henshaw can cover 12, 13 and 15. I think your point is a fair one. Perhaps Farrell wants to see if Henshaw and Ringrose can continue their Leinster form in the second half. They haven't had that many opportunities at test level. And the familiar Byrne at 10 with them.
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Post by jimbopip Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:04 pm

RDW wrote:I'm just looking forward to the nickname Jimbo is going to come up with for Doris....

Nickname? Me?
Aye that'll be the Day. oh yeah

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Post by RDW Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:28 pm

jimbopip wrote:
RDW wrote:I'm just looking forward to the nickname Jimbo is going to come up with for Doris....

Nickname? Me?
Aye that'll be the Day. oh yeah

Laugh

You didn't disappoint.

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Post by 123456789. Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:04 pm

Huw Jones is the latest to be sent out for interview. So if we’re to engage in a bit of Scottish rugby kremlinology the fact that Hutchinson has spoken of being a 12 it seems we will be seeing Hutchinson and Jones together.
Either that or Toonie will stick with the tried and tested, rip-roaringly successful pairing of Johnson and Harris.

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Post by NeilyBroon Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:20 pm

I wouldnt read too much into the interviews. Toonie's philosophy is along the lines of General Melchetts these days, "if we do the same thing for the twenty first time as we did for the twentieth and the times before that, it'll be the last thing they're expecting!"
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Post by Guest Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:23 pm

I haven't followed up on the news with what Finn Russell has meant to have done. Does anyone have an inside scoop?

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Post by Pot Hale Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:46 pm

guestalt_physicality wrote:I haven't followed up on the news with what Finn Russell has meant to have done. Does anyone have an inside scoop?

Read the thread. There's no escape or short-cuts.
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Post by SecretFly Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:19 am

Don't be so heartless, Pot.  Just tell the man.  Not all of us have the time to rummage through 50 pages of 606 garbage.

Finn Russell initially made some social media comments, that I suppose he believed to be humourous rather than insulting, about the bunch of alien nutters who attended and got awards at the Grammys.
Well it seems a few highly sensitive agents got a fit of snowflake syndrome and demanded an apology from SRU for Russell's comments.  During the team announcement, Townsend made some awkward effort to apologise for any offence Billy Eilish might have taken about allusions to her boilersuit/onesie fashion sense.

Russell was angry that an apology was made on his behalf without his approval.  He went on the Pi-ss in protest and the rest is history of course.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:30 am

Having seen the Ireland line-up, what sort of back-row should Scotland go against countering it?

Doris looks to be more a rangy 8 as opposed to raw strength so does that allow us to pick Ritchie - Bradbury - Watson or do we go with a Crosbie or CDP to start over Ritchie to give a bit of extra size?

I would tend to risk it and trust Ritchie and Watson to go wreck havoc with Crosbie on the bench covering 6/8 rather than the OS he has been playing, but I suspect we will see CDP somewhere.

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Post by bsando Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:42 am

Scotland will probably go for Ritchie, Watson and Bradbury with Crosbie or CDP on the bench. If Crosbie were to bench ahead of CDP that would mean Scotland have three proven poachers available to them. If Toonie wants to play a fast game, with an emphasis of attacking the breakdown then he'll probably omit CDP or keep him on the bench. I wouldn't be surprised if Crosbie pips him actually, he's been playing well for Edinburgh.

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Post by RDW Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:46 am

For once I'm not so concerned about being beaten up by the Irish pack - it is very physical but definitely more geared towards athleticism than some of their packs of the past. As such I'm less worried about Ritchie/Watson on the flanks and would go as far as saying it's necessary. If we picked a backrow of Bradbury, CDP, Watson it would be too heavy and we'd get roasted at the breakdown IMO.

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Post by bsando Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:05 am

Wouldn't suit the Townsend game plan much either. If our Scrum is getting minced then adding CDP and GG could be useful, but starting heavy would probably only result in one outcome..

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Post by BigGee Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:19 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51289567

All the signs seem to be suggesting that Huw Jones will be lining up at 13 against Ireland.

I think we will see him lined up with Johnson his usual partner.

We could potentially see 2 centres on the bench, Hutchy, who could also cover FH and Steyn or Harris who can also cover the wing.

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Post by EWT Spoons Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:38 am

I think if Finn had been involved we might have seen a different 12/13 combo, but given Hastings is still pretty raw at international level, I think trying to build as much continuity around him as possible would be sensible. Johnson and Jones are near nailed on to start in my opinion now.

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Post by bsando Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:06 pm

That would be a good shout I think. It should really be a full Glasgow backline with Steyn on the right wing and Maitland on the left wing. Instant continuity with Maitland and Captain Hogg adding experience.

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Post by 123456789. Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:14 pm

It would not be a great indictment of Townsend's man management if Huw Jones is sent out to tell everyone how gutted he was not to go to the world cup, if he's then not selected on Thursday.
We're all talking about who will be playing 12, we can all remember the time Townsend put Jones at 12 and Harris at 13 I take it.

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Post by BigGee Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:20 pm

https://www.theoffsideline.com/ireland-scotland-nick-haining/

Haining getting a bit of media time this evening, does that mean that he is in the match squad?

Its certainly possible, especially if Bradbury has not got his ar*e back into gear. He has looked a decent player whenever he has run out for Edinburgh this season, carries the ball like he means it and is a big lad.

I don't think many would have seen that one coming though.

A lot of pundits are suggesting that Sutherland is going to start as well, as there are only 2 Lhs in the squad, it always seemed likely he would play, but Dell is definitely the more experienced option, despite neither of them having played all that much this season.

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Post by RDW Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:39 pm

Wait, he played against the Lions on the wing??

That could be our wing issues solved.

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Post by BigGee Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:41 pm

RDW wrote:Wait, he played against the Lions on the wing??

That could be our wing issues solved.

Think he might have filled out a bit since then!

I bet you would not fancy marking him

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Post by RDW Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:47 pm

Oh wow he was actually a winger! I just assumed he had to cover injury.

Edinburgh's finest Junior Rasolea was in that team too!

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Post by NeilyBroon Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:58 am

I think haining would be a good option. Hes got aggression in the mould of G Graham, and seems to be more consistent with it on the field. My only worry would be him getting overexcited in the style of Geoff Cross and doing something silly to get sent off. Looking forward to the team announcement!
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Post by bsando Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:04 am

Barclay is back! (for his BBC column)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51300323


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Post by BigGee Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:38 am

A good article, JB writes very well

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Post by Tramptastic Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:15 am

He does write very well, he's echoed someone previously in the thread about Scotland trying to be pragmatic as running everything for the 1st 20 minutes leaves them hanging oot their erse for the rest of the match and their defense goes to mush as they are so tired.

I'm getting more excited now, Barclay points out young Hastings has no baggage when it comes to the six nations so he might turn out better than previously thought.

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Post by RDW Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:42 am

I was chatting about Russell-gate last night with a friend - I actually think the distraction could be a good thing. All of the focus could be on how crap we were in the WC, how our defence is shocking and how terrible we are away from home. Instead all of the focus is on Russell not being there!

I'm sure there's a siege mentality in the squad just now - that can often create short term lifts in performance.

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Post by bsando Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:50 am

You and your mates are probably right, it is a welcome distraction from "Remember last time you played Ireland?". If the pack can look after the ball and give Hastings and Horne some good ball they should do alright I think.

After reading the Haining article it'll be interesting to see if he covers bench spot. He seems like he has good hands, offloading and maybe even a step. Some of his Jersey highlights at line out time looked pretty decent too but that is Championship highlights though. I think he possibly fits the Scotland mould better than the player CDP has become.

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Post by BigGee Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:20 am

CDP and Haining are different players and this could be a horses for courses selection.

CDP has had to re-invent himself as a pure physical brute following his injury. He has lost some mobility following his accident but will tackle himself into the ground and hit every ruck like it is his last.

Haining is the more mobile ball carrying option now and might be better suited to the Ireland game. CDP could easily come back into contention when we are playing a bigger more physical pack like England or France.

Question would be do you start or bench Haining if he is to be picked. Do we want him to getting us on the front foot or to help us chase the game. I think he might be better starting. Big ask for a debut 6N game though.


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Post by bsando Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:45 am

After initially thinking CDP should start this game I'm now thinking this should probably be Bradbury's 6N to prove himself. At 24 he's got years ahead of him, Haining will be 33 by the next RWC and CDP will be 32. If we're looking ahead then Bradbury should start.

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Post by BigGee Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:57 am

bsando wrote:After initially thinking CDP should start this game I'm now thinking this should probably be Bradbury's 6N to prove himself. At 24 he's got years ahead of him, Haining will be 33 by the next RWC and CDP will be 32. If we're looking ahead then Bradbury should start.

It depends which Bradbury has been in the training camp. If it has been the one who has been phoning his performances in for Edinburgh this season, then maybe not.

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Post by RDW Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:02 am

I@m not sure CDP will cope with the pace these days. If anything I think he needs to be on the bench, to come on when the intensity has dropped a bit.

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Post by BigGee Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:07 am

There are still quite a few intrigues about the team to be settled. It may well be an interesting announcement when it comes along at lunchtime.

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Post by Tramptastic Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:11 am

bsando wrote:After initially thinking CDP should start this game I'm now thinking this should probably be Bradbury's 6N to prove himself. At 24 he's got years ahead of him, Haining will be 33 by the next RWC and CDP will be 32. If we're looking ahead then Bradbury should start.

Ach 32 and 33 is nothing for a forward - post 2023 aye bin them unless they have a late swan song but aye they are currently in their golden years bracket so why ditch em?

If they are the players for the here and now and they are on form then they should be picked regardless of age. Lets focus on winning some games and then look to give youth some more experience in the 2021 and 2022 seasons

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Post by tigertattie Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:12 am

RDW wrote:I@m not sure CDP will cope with the pace these days. If anything I think he needs to be on the bench, to come on when the intensity has dropped a bit.

Nah, CDP stil has his engine. He's also got a great passing game.

It's 50/50 for me between CDP and Haining. Remember CDP has played international rugby before and has played more top flight club games for Edinburgh and Worcs.

Haining is quicker, CDP is more powerful.

its a choice of do you want a lump running at tired defenders in the last 20 to run through them or an athlete running around them.
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Post by EWT Spoons Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:13 am

Rumours from reputable sources that Sutherland, price, Jones (at 13) & Hastings all start.  CDP on the bench

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Post by RDW Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:15 am

Talking of not lasting the place, I'm very much worried about the prospect of Sutherland starting - he's an absolute unit now but has been lumbering around the pitch recently when playing for Edinburgh!

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Post by EWT Spoons Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:19 am

He used to be great in the loose, I'll be honest i've not seen enough of him outside of scrums etc to say for sure how he'd cope now. Worst case he makes the hour, and Dell comes on to replace him

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Post by BigGee Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:21 am

Maybe they are taking the view that Sutherland has the potential to become a top LH and needs the exposure. We certainly thought he had that prior to the injury.

He may well have made a good impression in the camp as well.

If he is starting, lets hope he does as well as hoped, won't be easy up against TF.

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Post by bsando Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:44 am

Well Dell has dropped off a bit and Sutherland has started a few games recently. Dell would probably have been my choice but happy with Sutherland too. Scrum time could be painful to watch on sat

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Post by BigGee Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:47 am

bsando wrote:Well Dell has dropped off a bit and Sutherland has started a few games recently. Dell would probably have been my choice but happy with Sutherland too. Scrum time could be painful to watch on sat

They are probably likely to be doing half a match each or so in any case, but it will be useful to see how Sutherland gets on as a starter. He may well be the better scrummager and so might handle TF a bit better.

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Post by EWT Spoons Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:50 am

With the team due to be announced today, this is my stab at what I expect to see:

1. Sutherland
2. Brown
3. Fagerson
4. Gray.
5. Gilco
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Bradbury*
9. Price
10. Hastings
11. Kinghorn
12. Johnson
13. Jones
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Dell
17. McInally
18. Nel/Berghan
19. Cummings
20. CDP
21. Horne
22. Hutchinson
23. Harris

*my only reservation on this is that Haining has been doing media work, and that's generally an indication of involvement.

Nel/Berghan - No idea on this one. Nel's getting on, so hardly an impact sub, and Berghan would likely offer more in the loose. But Nel is the better scrummager.

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