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Wales v Scotland Saturday 14th March 2020

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Wales v Scotland Saturday 14th March 2020 - Page 3 Empty Wales v Scotland Saturday 14th March 2020

Post by BigGee on Mon 09 Mar 2020, 7:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

Wales v Scotland
6N 5th Round

Principality Stadium
Cardiff

KO 14.15

Well Scotland and Wales draw the long straw and are the ones to be able to get their 6N competition played and out of the way. The way results have gone this time around was always going to make this an interesting game and now everyone is going to be concentrating on this match.

Cardiff, as it has often been said, has not proved to be a happy hunting ground for Scottish teams for a long long time. Is this year going to be any different. Well form might suggest that it may be. A Wales side in transition, new coach, new style and several newish players, have so far struggled a bit this year. Plenty of heart on show as always, but not really quite getting the new tactics and consequently making far to many errors. They have also been handicapped by an appalling injury list and that may be getting even worse following the very bruising match against England last weekend.

Scotland, on the other hand have built pretty well into the tournament and played their best game so far in beating France comfortably at the weekend. France, it should be reminded, were fancied to tie up their first GS in a long time after winning their first three games.

Scotland's own tournament has not been incident free, with Finngate taking centre stage and a lot of Scottish fans dissatisfied with the direction Toonie seemed to be taking this Scottish team and calling for his head. After two wins on the bounce though, the pressure on Toonie and the team seems to have abated a bit and some more serious thinkers are coming round to the conclusion that maybe Toonie, in trying to make Scotland a more structured team that are first and foremost, hard to beat, may actually be on to something. Certainly some of the coaching appointments prior to this tournament are looking nothing short of inspired. Who would ever have believed that after 4 rounds, Scotland would have the best defensive record in the tournament?

Still for all the positives, this is still Wales in Cardiff, a wounded and angry Wales, who will badly want to salvage some pride from an otherwise disappointing tournament. This is a real test as to the progression of this Scotland team, can they turn some promise into hard results.

For Wales, losing 4 out of 5 is probably approaching the unthinkable, especially to Scotland, who have always been seen as a soft touch. This will be a fascinating encounter in so many ways.

I am hoping for Scotland team something along these lines, there won't be many/any changes from the last game:

1. Sutherland - a shout for player of the tournament, has been outstanding
2. McInally - Toonie seems keen to rotate them
3. Fagerson
4. Cummings
5. Gilchrist - came back into the team with something to prove and proved it
6. Ritchie - the man everyone loves to hate
7. Watson
8. Haining - assuming not suspended, Bradbury if he is
9. Horne - is not now then when, deserves a start
10. Hastings
11. Maitland
12. Johnson - owns the shirt now, has had a good tournament
13. Harris - even the many doubters quietly impressed on sunday
14. Kinghorn - under pressure from Steyn though
15. Hogg - has grown into the captaincy

Subs:

Dell
Brown
Nel
Skinner
Bradbury (Fagerson if Haining out)
Price
Hutchinson - Hastings seems to have got over his wobbles in Italy and it is the last game of the tournament and no weather issues indoors
Steyn - Not much time on his debut, but did well

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 12:13 pm

Seems a bit mad to start John, when he hasn't even been in a 23 this tournament. Feel for LRZ, to be honest. I don't know what we gain from McNicholl on the bench, that we couldn't have at least had him in the 23 for one of the matches we've played.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 12:13 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:John to start at TH. still no place for Rees-Zammit.

I wonder how Leon Brown feels about that, seeing John parachuted in ahead of him.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 12:15 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:John to start at TH. still no place for Rees-Zammit.

I wonder how Leon Brown feels about that, seeing John parachuted in ahead of him.

Seems a little harsh, especially after he dug in for Pivac etc last week.

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Post by chris_501 on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 12:18 pm

One of the big contrasts I think we have seen between the Pivac and Gatland eras is the continuity Gatland used to give, to the extent that it wound us up as fans to see a player keep being given an opportunity to improve on a previously bad performance.

Pivac seems to be the complete opposite. Tomas Williams and Rob Evans out of the 23 altogether. John straight in, leaving Brown on the bench.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 12:30 pm

chris_501 wrote:One of the big contrasts I think we have seen between the Pivac and Gatland eras is the continuity Gatland used to give, to the extent that it wound us up as fans to see a player keep being given an opportunity to improve on a previously bad performance.

Pivac seems to be the complete opposite. Tomas Williams and Rob Evans out of the 23 altogether. John straight in, leaving Brown on the bench.

Good point, but if that were entirely true then we probably would have seen North dropped at some point. Like others have said some of the selections and non-selections are a little strange. Overall I’m happy with the team.

Shingler isn’t even on the bench so I wonder where that leaves him in the future?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 12:38 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:John to start at TH. still no place for Rees-Zammit.

I wonder how Leon Brown feels about that, seeing John parachuted in ahead of him.

Seems a little harsh, especially after he dug in for Pivac etc last week.
I've heard that they rate John as the best scrummager of the three tight-heads, but he's been carrying a niggle, which would explain why he hasn't been involved thus far. But this is only word of mouth.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 12:44 pm

I get why they want to look at John and I suppose the best way is by seeing him against a starting loosehead and seeing how he goes. I hadn't heard about the niggle, more the lack of conditioning talk, so that would explain his absences.

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Post by jimbopip on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 12:50 pm

Team's oot Very Happy

15. Dropsy (Exeter Chiefs) – 76 caps

14. NoMaits (Saracens) – 48 caps
13. The Hardest Working Man (Gloucester) – 18 caps
12. Smiling Sam (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
11. King Blarehorn (Edinburgh) – 21 caps

10. Mum! Dad! No!!! (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps
9. Aldi Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps

1. Rory Sutherland (Edinburgh) – 7 caps
2. Rambo (Edinburgh) – 37 caps
3. Ragnar The Pretty (Glasgow Warriors) – 29 caps
4. Principal (Exeter Chiefs) – 7 caps
5. Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 42 caps
6. Mbawaza (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
7. Hamish Fae The Glen(Edinburgh) – 32 caps
8. Malcolm Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 14 caps

Substitutes:

16. Chuckles Won't be happy benching, but how can you tell? (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps
17. Allan Dell (London Irish) – 32 caps
18. Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 38 caps
19. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
20. Middle Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 6 caps
21. Little Big Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
22. Meatball (Worcester Warriors) – 28 caps
23. Seaman We hate to see Seaman on the bench (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap

Well, that's pretty much a team that picked itself. Nick Haining misses out due to illness: did he eat too many frogs legs at the weekend?
I think, if it goes ahead, that Scotland could win this one. Mind you I thought that two years ago and we were thumped right royally.


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Post by lostinwales on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 12:50 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
chris_501 wrote:One of the big contrasts I think we have seen between the Pivac and Gatland eras is the continuity Gatland used to give, to the extent that it wound us up as fans to see a player keep being given an opportunity to improve on a previously bad performance.

Pivac seems to be the complete opposite. Tomas Williams and Rob Evans out of the 23 altogether. John straight in, leaving Brown on the bench.

Good point, but if that were entirely true then we probably would have seen North dropped at some point. Like others have said some of the selections and non-selections are a little strange. Overall I’m happy with the team.

Shingler isn’t even on the bench so I wonder where that leaves him in the future?

Injury? Shingler was another one who was clutching his arm at one point last Saturday

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 12:53 pm

If RZ isn’t playing then at least let him play for the U20s - in essence that would be promoting him from the u18s which seems to offend a certain rabid feline - but what doesn’t?

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:02 pm

jimbopip wrote:Team's oot Very Happy

15. Dropsy (Exeter Chiefs) – 76 caps

14. NoMaits (Saracens) – 48 caps
13. The Hardest Working Man (Gloucester) – 18 caps
12. Smiling Sam  (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
11. King  Blarehorn (Edinburgh) – 21 caps

10. Mum! Dad! No!!! (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps
9. Aldi Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps

1. Rory Sutherland (Edinburgh) – 7 caps
2. Rambo (Edinburgh) – 37 caps
3. Ragnar The Pretty (Glasgow Warriors) – 29 caps
4. Principal (Exeter Chiefs) – 7 caps
5. Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 42 caps
6. Mbawaza (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
7. Hamish Fae The Glen(Edinburgh) – 32 caps
8. Malcolm Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 14 caps

Substitutes:

16. Chuckles Won't be happy benching, but how can you tell? (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps
17. Allan Dell (London Irish) – 32 caps
18. Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 38 caps
19. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
20. Middle Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 6 caps
21. Little Big Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
22. Meatball (Worcester Warriors) – 28 caps
23. Seaman We hate to see Seaman on the bench (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap

Well, that's pretty much a team that picked itself. Nick Haining misses out due to illness: did he eat too many frogs legs at the weekend?
I think, if it goes ahead, that Scotland could win this one. Mind you I thought that two years ago and we were thumped right royally.


Some non-nincknames in there jimbo. Sort it out man!

PS- Magnus Bradbury isnt called Malcolm!
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Post by The Oracle on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:04 pm

tigertattie wrote:
bsando wrote:https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/untold-real-story-welshman-who-17828025

Remember this debacle back in 2012? Back when Scotland's depth at centre was about as deep as a paddling pool? Quite interesting to hear his thoughts on the whole thing. I was quite disappointed at the time because I thought Shingler would be quite a handy player to have in the squad. However, after hearing his thoughts on the whole thing it seems the right outcome came about despite him never earning an international cap for Wales. Just glad he has no regrets and is happy with his rugby and they way things have panned out.  

Was all very farcical.

Legally the WRU didnt have a leg to stand on and then they go and start capping players like Moriarty and Tompkins who playerd for England U20s. The whole affair reeked of contradiction. Have to feel for Shingler who was jsut blocked from playing international rugby by the WRU.


I really don't understand posts like this.  What has it to do with the WRU?  World Rugby or the IRB (or whatever they were called at the time) set the rules.  WRU couldn't 'rescind' the cap any more than Fiji could rescind Ica Necewa's Fiji cap to allow him to play for the All Blacks.  I know people love to push the WRU as the pantomime villains of world rugby but some posts are just ridiculous!  The WRU didn't put their foot down, or decline a request, or block Shingler from playing for Scotland.  They weren't involved at all.

Edit: sorry just to add - just to be clear, I'm not attacking you personally tattie! Rather the premise that it was all the WRU's fault that he couldn't become un-tied from Wales. Hug


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Post by Comfort on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:04 pm

After North's performances this tournament I'm genuinely perplexed to why ZLR hasn't at least come off the bench in one game.

Strange selection's in all, I'm very happy with the forward replacements in all fairness and John starting isn't a bad thing - bit of an acid test considering how good Scotland have been up front so far mind.

This is gonna be an interesting game!

Wales by 5-10 just because we're at home and they'll be desperate not to lose 4 out of 5 games. If this was in Murrayfield I'd be a lot less confident and could see us losing with our defensive system being a shambles.

At some point the balls going to stick to hands and we'll give someone a slapping, lets hope its this weekend...

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:06 pm

Anyway, back to the game - certainly looks like a 'tinker-man' approach from Pivac. Someone posted previously that Pivac was trying everyone out in the squad ahead of the NZ tour and this certainly looks like he's doing it. Only LRZ who hasn't featured at all I think?

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:11 pm

Comfort wrote:After North's performances this tournament I'm genuinely perplexed to why ZLR hasn't at least come off the bench in one game.

Strange selection's in all, I'm very happy with the forward replacements in all fairness and John starting isn't a bad thing - bit of an acid test considering how good Scotland have been up front so far mind.

This is gonna be an interesting game!

Wales by 5-10 just because we're at home and they'll be desperate not to lose 4 out of 5 games. If this was in Murrayfield I'd be a lot less confident and could see us losing with our defensive system being a shambles.

At some point the balls going to stick to hands and we'll give someone a slapping, lets hope its this weekend...


A agree with a previous post that Wales have improved over the 6N to date.  Not necessarily on the scoreboard, but the ball sticking to hand has improved and we're looking a little more slick.  Against Ireland I've never seen so many mistakes (not in the Gatland era) - hospital passes, over runs, missed passes out the back, etc.  Against France there were mistakes but fewer, and a number of moves came off.  Against England I thought we looked quite good in attack, the Tipuric try an excellent example of the attack 'clicking'.


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Post by jimbopip on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:18 pm

tigertattie wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Team's oot Very Happy

15. Dropsy (Exeter Chiefs) – 76 caps

14. NoMaits (Saracens) – 48 caps
13. The Hardest Working Man (Gloucester) – 18 caps
12. Smiling Sam  (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
11. King  Blarehorn (Edinburgh) – 21 caps

10. Mum! Dad! No!!! (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps
9. Aldi Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps

1. Rory Sutherland (Edinburgh) – 7 caps
2. Rambo (Edinburgh) – 37 caps
3. Ragnar The Pretty (Glasgow Warriors) – 29 caps
4. Principal (Exeter Chiefs) – 7 caps
5. Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 42 caps
6. Mbawaza (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
7. Hamish Fae The Glen(Edinburgh) – 32 caps
8. Malcolm Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 14 caps

Substitutes:

16. Chuckles Won't be happy benching, but how can you tell? (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps
17. Allan Dell (London Irish) – 32 caps
18. Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 38 caps
19. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
20. Middle Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 6 caps
21. Little Big Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
22. Meatball (Worcester Warriors) – 28 caps
23. Seaman We hate to see Seaman on the bench (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap

Well, that's pretty much a team that picked itself. Nick Haining misses out due to illness: did he eat too many frogs legs at the weekend?
I think, if it goes ahead, that Scotland could win this one. Mind you I thought that two years ago and we were thumped right royally.


Some non-nincknames in there jimbo. Sort it out man!

PS- Magnus Bradbury isnt called Malcolm!

tigertattie warning your Alzheimer's is getting worse, I've explained this reference many a time and oft.

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.yYM-zm7qbnSR0WjLDjMXxwAAAA?w=212&h=127&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.15&pid=1.7

Prior to becoming a Luvvie young Malcolm enjoyed a very successful career as an academic and author: it's History Man.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:19 pm

The Oracle wrote:


I know people love to push the WRU as the pantomime villains of world rugby but some posts are just ridiculous!  

Oh yeah?

Well cough up an innocent explanation for this then: the WRU finance officer photographed having a meeting back in September 2019 with a Nobel winning virologist in Wuhan.

The WRU should lawyer up! Sometimes plans for world domination can go too far.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:25 pm

Can I offer Dairy Milk for Bradbury's nickname?

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:35 pm

SecretFly wrote:
The Oracle wrote:


I know people love to push the WRU as the pantomime villains of world rugby but some posts are just ridiculous!  

Oh yeah?

Well cough up an innocent explanation for this then:  the WRU finance officer photographed having a meeting back in September 2019 with a Nobel winning virologist in Wuhan.

The WRU should lawyer up!  Sometimes plans for world domination can go too far.

It was all perfectly innocent. We were exploring ways of self-isolating with that new fangled roof that we have on the stadium. We're going to get the population of Wales in there (the non-infected ones!) until this all blows over. AWJ and Ken the Sheriff to lead 24 hour renditions of Calon Lan and Sospan Fach. We'll sing the virus away.

You do know we have a roof, don't you? Not sure if it has been mentioned before Wink
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Post by SecretFly on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:44 pm

Whistle .....

Plan is working a treat so.  Once the rest of us get you all in there, the welders come out...... Wink

And there endeth the Welsh GrandSlam problem!


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Post by jimbopip on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:46 pm

The stadium may have a roof....but you're impressing no-one warning I've stayed in Tremorfa I know how you got all the slates for that roof.

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Post by No9 on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 1:58 pm

Adam Price (Plaid Cyrmru leader) calling for the game to be called off. Bit late now, if that was a serious option, surely it should have been done BEFORE thousands of Scots turned up in Cardiff...

Erm Wonder if they've brought toilet rolls with them...

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Post by jimbopip on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 2:19 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Can I offer Dairy Milk for Bradbury's nickname?

A bar or a box?

On rugby matters; Wales have the debutante and Wynn Jones up against Sutherland and Ragnar. Both Scottish props are on great form: can either of your lads actually push?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 2:19 pm

Plaid Cymru = bunch of jokers.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 2:29 pm

In your humble opinion!

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 2:34 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:John to start at TH. still no place for Rees-Zammit.

Nice first cap. Go and tame a rampant Rory Sutherland who is in with big shout of being the LH of the championship...

This is gonna be a belter.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 3:13 pm

Not really worried because John can bench more than Sutherland.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 5:15 pm

I'me quite surprised this match is going ahead.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 5:21 pm

I think a lot of people are, to be honest.

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Post by 123456789. on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 5:24 pm

I'd say this game going ahead now is 50-50. After everything that's been said today, the noise to postpone is only going to get louder and louder. The WRU and SRU have the capacity to play this almost whenever, the vast majority of the players involved are centrally contracted, they have constant access to the stadium.

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Post by RDW on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 7:11 pm

https://www.bbc.com/sport/51859553

Bit of an alarming headline but the content does seem to suggest the game will go ahead with tge chief scientific advisor saying it would have limited effect.

Just remember no kissing in the stadium now... kiss

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Post by RDW on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 7:13 pm

BigGee wrote:https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/three-changes-for-championship-finale

McInally, Skinner and Bradbury start

Haining is ill apparently

Otherwise unchanged

I'm glad to see a bit of rotation to freshen things up after a short turnaround.

Would love to hear Townsend's reasoning behind his hooker rotation each game!

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Post by Guest on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 8:18 pm

I thought there might be a few more changes to the Wales team but this is clearly a must win game. That team isn't far from first choice now. Harsh that Shingler has had so little game time but we know what he can do I suppose. LRZ has time on his side no need to rush him. I'd like to see him down in New Zealand but maybe it's worth saving him until the autumn.

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Post by Guest on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 8:27 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:John to start at TH. still no place for Rees-Zammit.

I wonder how Leon Brown feels about that, seeing John parachuted in ahead of him.

Seems a little harsh, especially after he dug in for Pivac etc last week.

This whole campaign has been about rotation and giving players a chance while also still picking a strong team. Thankfully it looks like we're over the 'job for life' selections of Gatland. Makes more sense having the strong scrummager to start anyway then have the more mobile prop on when the game opens up but either way it's also a chance for the Welsh camp to have a proper look at someone not playing in Wales.

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Post by Guest on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 8:33 pm

Comfort wrote:After North's performances this tournament I'm genuinely perplexed to why ZLR hasn't at least come off the bench in one game.

North's done well. One poor game v Ireland and one good game v England. Still doing the hardwork like he has been for the last 2 years without shining. The day the tabloid press gets to Pivac and influences his selection will be a sad day.

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Post by Guest on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 8:34 pm

The Oracle wrote:Anyway, back to the game - certainly looks like a 'tinker-man' approach from Pivac.  Someone posted previously that Pivac was trying everyone out in the squad ahead of the NZ tour and this certainly looks like he's doing it.  Only LRZ who hasn't featured at all I think?


Yes that was me guys. Think I got most of the recalls right as well. Very Happy

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Post by BigGee on Thu 12 Mar 2020, 10:15 pm

RDW wrote:
BigGee wrote:https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/three-changes-for-championship-finale

McInally, Skinner and Bradbury start

Haining is ill apparently

Otherwise unchanged

I'm glad to see a bit of rotation to freshen things up after a short turnaround.

Would love to hear Townsend's reasoning behind his hooker rotation each game!

Fraser Brown became a dad just after the France game and has had a few sleepless nights, so maybe it was not an unreasonable call!

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Post by yappysnap on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 2:22 am

Comfort wrote:
At some point the balls going to stick to hands and we'll give someone a slapping, lets hope its this weekend...

Surely someone else isn't going to grab AWJ's again??!

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 7:22 am

guestalt_physicality wrote:
Comfort wrote:After North's performances this tournament I'm genuinely perplexed to why ZLR hasn't at least come off the bench in one game.

North's done well. One poor game v Ireland and one good game v England. Still doing the hardwork like he has been for the last 2 years without shining. The day the tabloid press gets to Pivac and influences his selection will be a sad day.

I thought North was awful against us. Liability in defence, never seems to come off his wing looking for work and failed to finish two golden opportunities that he would have jogged in comfortably in his prime.

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Post by Guest on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 7:29 am

Really? Can you give examples for any of those because I certainly didn't see that. I know he got criticised by the commentators for Tuilagi's try because I saw the highlights back and that is part of the problem, very poor punditry (and journalism) is giving a false impression of North and a lot of fans who perhaps don't know any better seem to take their lead from them. He wasn't at fault for that try but examples for any of that happening would be good because I thought he played very well all things considered.

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Post by Comfort on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 8:28 am

North's always had very average defence at best for test level. He's always had JD2 inside him (probably the best defenders in the 13 channel since BOD) and a very organised defensive system with Edwards at the helm. Shock horror that without both of those things he's struggling... I have previously said our issues out wide defensively are part the structure and part the 13/outside winger not working together well positionally - I think if you go back and watch some of the tries scored against us you'll see why some of us people who 'don't know rugby' Smile think North hasn't played well - then compare those to Josh Adams performances or McNicholls small but positive involvements. He's been a 4/5 out of 10 this tournament realistically.

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Post by Comfort on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 8:30 am

I sound like such a North hater - I promise I'm not - we just have other options we should be looking at imo.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 8:56 am

guestalt_physicality wrote:Really? Can you give examples for any of those because I certainly didn't see that. I know he got criticised by the commentators for Tuilagi's try because I saw the highlights back and that is part of the problem, very poor punditry (and journalism) is giving a false impression of North and a lot of fans who perhaps don't know any better seem to take their lead from them. He wasn't at fault for that try but examples for any of that happening would be good because I thought he played very well all things considered.

Twice failing to score is pretty self evident - in his prime he would not have dropped the ball with the line begging or been tackled by Slade.

For two tries he was too narrow in defence - not just his mistake as in part caused by the defenders inside him but shows a lack of game awareness that was not isolated to these occasions.

Hard for me to prove he did not go looking for work off his wing - just as it is hard for me to prove I have never had sex with a donkey (I have not but proving a negative is pretty much impossible).

2020 North is a long way below 2013 North. Just an opinion but he is a shadow of what he once was.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 9:06 am

 LondonTiger wrote:
guestalt_physicality wrote:
Comfort wrote:After North's performances this tournament I'm genuinely perplexed to why ZLR hasn't at least come off the bench in one game.

North's done well. One poor game v Ireland and one good game v England. Still doing the hardwork like he has been for the last 2 years without shining. The day the tabloid press gets to Pivac and influences his selection will be a sad day.

I thought North was awful against us. Liability in defence, never seems to come off his wing looking for work and failed to finish two golden opportunities that he would have jogged in comfortably in his prime.

Thought he was decent in attack against England, proved to be quite a handful. Not that good though. I agree with most in thinking he had been awful before and after the Italy game though. That’s nothing to do with the press, who as far as I’m aware don’t lay into him anyway. It’s strange that if you have a different opinion of a player then it has to be the press or commentators influencing the decision, rather than ones’ own eyes. Names change but people don’t, oh well.

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Post by Comfort on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 9:10 am

LondonTiger wrote:2020 North is a long way below 2013 North. Just an opinion but he is a shadow of what he once was.

Pretty much this - for a number of reasons, but this.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 9:11 am

Comfort wrote:I sound like such a North hater - I promise I'm not - we just have other options we should be looking at imo.

I think we could a like for like in Rees-Zammit when he bulks up a little. We’ll see how he goes.

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Post by RDW on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 9:15 am

Given everything going on just now this game could feasibly be the last game of rugby in the UK for a number of weeks, if not months. Hope it's a good one!

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Post by Comfort on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 9:17 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Comfort wrote:I sound like such a North hater - I promise I'm not - we just have other options we should be looking at imo.

I think we could a like for like in Rees-Zammit when he bulks up a little. We’ll see how he goes.

Exactly like North when he burst on the scene scoring all sorts of tries as well…. its like history repeating... hopefully.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 9:18 am

Psychology is a big driver in human resolve, action or inaction.

Subconsciously, perhaps North is just holding off on full intensity/involvement.  His mind perhaps stalls for milliseconds as it contemplates actions and collisions.  And those milliseconds of reticence or memory beats, makes him less effective or at least gives such an appearance.

So as we talk about player's 'form' dipping in ways we don't like, perhaps just a moment's reflection on the course of such careers and perhaps give some leeway to a body and mind sometimes acting at variance to the conscious wishes of the player when past injuries and incidents are wired in hard to the instinct protection urges.

A younger player with less 'combat' memories will not suffer the same levels of millisecond stalling or doubt.  So they'll appear to have the drive and confidence that lacks no confidence.

Sexton is another player I'm reminded of when people ridicule present form with that shown a few years ago.  The subconscious mind remembers, the mind doesn't want to experience similar moments again, our survival instincts are strong, despite our most competitive conscious nature.  The mind can rebel.  And those tiny doubts and protection mechanisms can make a player less of a player, dampen his sharpness, allow timing mistakes to escalate.

So please gentlemen, as you debate - some sympathy for the internal battles that can go on in the mind of players that have a history of scary moments in the game.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 13 Mar 2020, 9:21 am

Me saying North was awful was perhaps an overexageration - but not a patch on the player he once was.

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