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Italy v Scotland Autumn nations Cup Saturday 14th November 2020

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Post by BigGee on Tue 10 Nov 2020, 1:40 am

Italy v Scotland
Autumn Nations Cup

Stadio Artemio Franchi
Florence
Italy

Saturday 14th November 2020
KO 12.45

Live on Amazon Prime


There is a very rarely documented medical condition where visitors to Florence, on stepping off the train, gaze around and go wow, or words to that effect, then promptly drop dead. Post Mortem reveals no obvious cause of death and the assumption is that they were simply overwhelmed by the beauty of Florence.

Hopefully the Scotland team won't be visiting the sites and wonders of this amazing city prior to the match and they can concentrate on dealing with the less overwhelming beauty of the Italian team in front of them. No messing about know, wheras in the 6n we were cagey and badly in need of a result, this time, we are a confident team who need a performance as much as a result, following our ground out win, important as it was to the development of this team, down in Wales.

We also need to show that we can rotate our squad around a bit and still pack a punch and this is likely to be the game to do that in, seeing as a few of our stars might be in need of a rest. Injury is going to play a part in seeing who is picked as well, with both our front line FHs missing for this one, which surely means that Duncan Weir is the most nailed on selection in the squad. He has been a bit of a talisman against Italy in the past, winning a game we did not deserve to with an outrageous drop goal a few years back.

Italy, always looking for something to prove though and are always game, though they, as Scotland did before them, struggle to play a full 80 minutes at this level without tiring badly and ending up with a loopsided score board at the end of the game. They are bringing some new players through though and the clubs continue to improve. There day will hopefully come, only please not this saturday!

I fancy we will see a much changed Scotland team this time, with a strong bench.

My guess at the team:

1. Keeble - two good cameos off the bench, surely deserves a start and Sutherland maybe needs a rest
2. Mcinally - looked hungry against Wales and Brown had a poor game
3. Berghan - slowly moving into the back up TH role
4. Skinner
5. Toolis
6. Ritchie
7. Cowan
8. Fagerson M - if fit, Thompson if not
9. Horne G - deserves a start
10. Weir - We are all looking forward to seeing that hair
11. VDM
12. Johnson
13. Harris
14. Maitland - Graham gets a rest
15. Jones H

Subs:

Bhatti
Turner
Fagerson Z
Gray J
Du Preez - has played well in his cameos
SHC
Lang - FH cover
Hogg/Kinghorn - which will allow Jones to move to 13 at some point in the second half



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Post by RDW on Tue 10 Nov 2020, 2:16 am

Happy with that team BigGee - I hope he does some experimenting for this game then goes full metal jacket against France. Fiji should still be a strong team as we really don't want to lose that, and that might be a time for organisation and pragmatism to grind them down for the win (an open game against Fiji is asking for trouble). Hopefully that leaves us playing off for top spot against England or Ireland (maybe Wales, but they need to improve a lot!)

3 from 3 is really achievable this series (France will be a huge test), and you never know what might happen in a one off play off games..

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 10 Nov 2020, 7:53 am

BigGee wrote:


Hopefully the Scotland team won't be visiting the sites and wonders of this amazing city prior to the match and they can concentrate on dealing with the less overwhelming beauty of the Italian team in front of them.

If it were rhe barbarians I'm sure they'd find time Rolling Eyes

Any news on the fitness of the Italian front row? If its the same group england faced it will make Scotland job a lot easier (a pushover?).

Italy have a few decent players but overall just aren't very good and get increasingly overpowered as the game progresses. Maybe Scotland missing a few players won't make their bench the strongest either but still its a should win game for them, and really a must if they have pretensions of making the semi's.



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Post by bsando on Tue 10 Nov 2020, 9:27 am

I think I'd like to see Scotland start strong rather than risk losing with a more experimental side. Squad rotation is something Toonie has always done anyway so I'm sure there'll be changes but it'll still be a strong side I think.

The FR options are great at the moment and there is some decent depth across the board. Nice place to be.

Duhan Maitland Hogg anyone? I'm hoping to see that back three for at least one game

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 10 Nov 2020, 3:34 pm

Amazon Prime!!! I thought that was a breed of hand reared boxing piranha. So how do I actually get to watch this match?
Remember couch your answers in non techie talk.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 10 Nov 2020, 3:52 pm

Short answer is ask a younger member of the familly who likely already has a subscription. I am using my sons!

They will likely be a useful source of how to get it from computer to tv as well.

Have you heard of a strange implement called a HDMI cable?

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 10 Nov 2020, 4:04 pm

Isn't that the title of the DVD of Meatball's finest moment; How Dunkie Mullered Italy?

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Post by BigGee on Tue 10 Nov 2020, 4:20 pm

It may well be!

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Post by bsando on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 7:35 am

Jimbo if you're with O2 you can get three months of Amazon Prime free apparently, I got a text from them last night.

Just text "TOMBOLA" to 21500

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Post by RDW on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 7:39 am

That doesn't sound dodgy at all....

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 9:37 am

You can (ask pipetto too) set up a 1 month free trial of prime. - Just mind and set a reminder to cancel it or the subscription kicks in after the trial. Most people will set up the trail and then cancel it within the 14 fay cooling off period (you tend to get left with the access for the rest of the month)

You can then (ask pipetto too) play prime through the tele via a "firestick" (bad ju ju) or if your tele doesnt have heat tubes in it, you may be able to play straight from the tele if it is internet enabled.

Of course the easiest thing as BigGee says is ask a youngster if they already have the subscription and if they arent watching it at the same time at another property you can use thier "deets" to view the game.

Alternatively you can fly to Asia where your subscripton to premier sports will pick it up Hug
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Post by jimbopip on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 10:03 am

Hug Hug

Thank you my savvy brethren. Since I pay Montezuma's ransom very month for Sky then I don't think I'll be rushing out to purchase a Firestick.
MrsPip accidentally landed herself with a prime account once and the language when the £17 pound was stolen STOLEN I SAY the following month was something to behold.

Radio Scotland it will be until the highlights magically appear on the smart tv. Yes my tv is much smarter than I.

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Post by RDW on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 10:06 am

There's bugger all on Sky sports these days unless you like wendyball!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 10:20 am

RDW wrote:There's bugger all on Sky sports these days unless you like wendyball!

Golf... Then formula 1 at an extra cost!

The sort of thing you have on in the background when doing bits around the house. Except now you pay out of the nose for that privilege!
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Post by TJ on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 10:30 am

I watch all the rugby that I want for free. there is always someone streaming it. Its often illegal to do the streams but not to receive them.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 12:35 pm

https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/scotland-aim-to-continue-recent-renaissance-for-trip-to-florence?fbclid=IwAR38u_SDg0zbzdw4Gr4j2Zxo0cQ4_XhXaKcqtO7kye3iQ71NG9vsflQVwxw

Team's oot.
Sutherland
McInally
Fagerson
Cummings
Gray
Ritchie
Watson
Blade

Price
Weir
VdM
Johnson
Harris
Graham
Hogg

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 12:38 pm

No place for shug again!!! SHC on bench though which is an interesting proposition although I really think Horne can feel hard done by unless he's part of a master plan to beat France. Imo it's either SHC or price, not both. Lang unsurprisingly at 22. Skinner and haining covering BR/SR.

Strong looking squad but very disappointed for Shug and Horne, they may as well have played on Monday!
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Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 1:04 pm

Right call with the ankle and discipline problem against Wales for Brown. Assume Nel for Berghan is rotation. Toolis and CDP can feel hard done by as they did nothing to deserve getting dropped so pressure on Skinner and Haining to perform.

Price probably makes sense as a stable partner next to Weir to help control the game. Johnson for Lang was a long time coming. Kinghorn as the 23 is not that bad with Lang already on the bench to cover centre, but expect any last minute injuries will see H Jones come in to the 23. Horne has not done a huge amount in a Scotland shirt recently and SHC has been impressive for Exeter. Got to give credit where it is due.

All in all, I expect that 23 to win by 15 - 20 against Italy.

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Post by bsando on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 1:22 pm

That's a good looking team! A great moment for Weir, he deserves it for his form at Worcester and for not fading away after leaving Glasgow and then Edinburgh. He's not going to usurp Hastings or Russell but I'm sure he'll do a good job.

This will be a good challenge to start off with, Italy are not pushovers. I think Scotland are a more street smart team (famous last words!) and can come through this one with a win. Nice to have Johnson back at inside centre as well and Thomson is getting a nice run of games which is good.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 2:27 pm

Toonie has rotated a little less than I imagined he would do, maybe the days of the Tombola are done and maybe that is no bad thing for an international coach.

Hard to complain about the team though, it is very strong. I would have liked to see Shuggy in there somewhere but otherwise it would just be nit picking to complain.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 3:46 pm

Italy will be tough but fairly similar to the Georgia test I reckon. Once we get behind them it could be a good scoreline. Despite being disappointed not to see Horne or Shug, I am excited to see SHC back in a Scotland jersey. He brings a lot of experience and has a good rugby brain and expect he will close the game out if required and it'll be good to see Weir get a proper crack in something other than a dead rubber for the first time in about 7 years.

I'd hazard a guess at a scoreline of around 30-10 or something similar with most of the rugby in Italy's half. Never say never against them though, it certainly wouldn't be the first time we lost if we did!
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Post by RDW on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 9:15 pm

Looks like the Tombola is broken! I agree that we wouldn't have lost anything to have put Jones at 23, but there you go.

Toonie has said in his interviews that they're viewing this as a tournament which has a prize on offer and that's the right mindset - Scotland don't have a good history of winning things, and that's not going to change unless this is the mindset we adopt.

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 12 Nov 2020, 12:01 am

Toolis can feel aggrieved. Doesn’t deserve to be dropped. Perhaps he’s been told its rotation and he’ll be back

Horne is injured apparently

Other than that!

Also we should be putting 30 on Italy. They aren’t very good currently.
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Post by RDW on Thu 12 Nov 2020, 12:05 am

Lock is probably one of our most competitive positions, and as much as Toolis has done well recently (and I rate him very highly) he's owed nothing in terms of selection. Toonie clearly sees Gray/Cummings as his starting combo just now so Toolis is fighting it out for a bench spot. Toonie has always liked Skinner so it's no surprise he's got the nod instead, as he's not really had a chance to fully establish himself at this level due to injuries.

We're really lucky to have the depth we have at lock:

Front line:
J Gray
Cummings
Skinner
GG
Toolis

Experienced squad cover:

R Gray
Harley

Could make the step up:

Craig
Charmichael
Davidson
CHH
McDonald
Murray Douglas (if he came back from Aus)

Youngsters:
Sykes
Hodgson
Blaim

And I'm sure I've forgotten several others!

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Post by Anglobraveheart on Thu 12 Nov 2020, 10:00 am

NeilyBroon wrote:Italy will be tough but fairly similar to the Georgia test I reckon. Once we get behind them it could be a good scoreline. Despite being disappointed not to see Horne or Shug, I am excited to see SHC back in a Scotland jersey. He brings a lot of experience and has a good rugby brain and expect he will close the game out if required and it'll be good to see Weir get a proper crack in something other than a dead rubber for the first time in about 7 years.

I'd hazard a guess at a scoreline of around 30-10 or something similar with most of the rugby in Italy's half. Never say never against them though, it certainly wouldn't be the first time we lost if we did!
I think it is a little bit awkward, and also new territory for us, that we are discussing so many excellent players that are in a bit of form, but can't make the match day 23.
I agree that Huw Jones, George Horne, Ben Toolis, Sean Maitland are all quality players that could walk into the side and positively contribute.
Then with the injury or return from injury list of Russell, Hastings, Brown, Hutchinson, Taylor, Gray senior, Fagerson junior who would also positively contribute. And those that are recent internationals unlikely to play at this level again, Horne senior, Wilson, (Gilchrist?) Cowan.
We are expanding nicely with the quality of player pool.
It is fantastic that GT can now 'select' and have to make the tough decisions on who is the best fit for each game, instead of having to pick what we've got available, with a deep drop off in quality on the bench.
This should be the time for these guys to step up as successful players in a positive hard working environment where the reality of pro sport means that their place isn't a gimme.
So I think that this is new territory that the team must grab by the short and curries, and really get control of the potential in the squad.

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Post by Anglobraveheart on Thu 12 Nov 2020, 11:48 am

** Curlies ** that should be.
They can grab the curries as a reward at the end of the tournament.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 9:57 am

Ahead of the game, Mark Palmer interviews one of Glasgow's favourite adopted Italian sons, Simone Favaro, now a policeman in Rome.

Does not sound to confident about Italy chances but is looking for a performance from them first and foremost. He also cites Scotland as the model Italy should adopt if they wish to improve, which is likely true as there is a lot of similarity between the two nations in terms of resources and we should not forget that we were battling them in the wooden spoon decider every year, not that long ago.

No divided loyalties for Simone though, 100% an Italian fan now.

Simone Favaro can still recall the exact moment he first believed that Italy would beat South Africa in Florence four years ago. “I was sitting in a pub in the west end of Glasgow,” begins the former Warriors flanker, who used to tour the local hostelries to find somewhere to watch his beloved AC Milan on television.

“Conor O’Shea [then the Azzurri head coach] phoned me to talk about the autumn Tests. He said, ‘we’ve got New Zealand, which is going to be hard, but then we’ve got South Africa and we’re going to win that match.’ I looked at my beer and said to myself: ‘Am I drunk or is he?!’

“I thought about it for a minute, though, and, even at that point, I thought ‘well, why not? Why should we be afraid?’ This wasn’t the South Africa that had won World Cups or who looked totally invincible. It was there for us to win.” The 20-18 success that Favaro and his teammates pulled off remains arguably the greatest in Italian rugby history. It was the first — and so far only — time they have beaten one of the Southern Hemisphere big three, and it happened in the same stadio Artemio Franchi where Scotland open their Autumn Nations Cup campaign on Saturday.

“It hadn’t been a happy hunting ground for me before then,” says Favaro. “Against Australia in 2012, I won a last-minute penalty which could have drawn the game but our fly-half, Luciano Orquera, missed it and we lost. Against the Springboks, I looked at the opposition and thought, ‘these aren’t the players I remember.’ And I could also see my teammates growing in confidence by the minute. After the first 20, I knew we were going to win.

“It was one of the best moments of my career. One of those days that make all the sacrifices worthwhile.” Favaro’s all-action performance, notably in contact and the tackle area, resulted in him being named man of the match as Italy survived first-quarter tries from Bryan Habana and Damian de Allende. Carlo Canna kicked what proved to be the decisive penalty with 16 minutes still to play.

Favaro had been struggling with a fever all week — he only trained once, on the day before the game — and spent the half hour after the final whistle “throwing up his guts” in a dressing room toilet. “I was full of anti-inflammatories and feeling terrible,” he says. “The boys were all on the ceiling and there was me hunched over the bowl.”

It was, perhaps, a sign of things to come. Seven days later, an Azzurri side captained by Favaro lost to Tonga in Padua, and he hadn’t managed any further wins by the time he played what turned out to be his final Test in the 2017 Six Nations.

Under O’Shea and now Franco Smith, Italy have lost 27 Six Nations matches in a row, their only triumphs since that famous day in Florence having come against Fiji, Japan, Georgia, Russia and Namibia. What recent plus points there have been have centred on the back row, where Jake Polledri, Sebastian Negri, Braam Steyn and Maxime Mbanda have all made positive impressions.

“They’re potentially very good players, but they shouldn’t just be content with what they are and what they’re doing at the moment,” says Favaro. “They’ve all got quality, but they need to reach people’s hearts. Good players in a team that isn’t yet all that strong have to do and give more. They must become leaders and drag the others with them.

“I’ve loved Polledri from the moment I first set eyes on him; I remember saying so to Sergio [Parisse] at the time. But what he’s doing is not enough, because I know what he’s capable of. He has to become a real leader of men.

“I’m now an ex-player and a fan. I just want to see some emotion, some old-school things, like players who will tackle even with a shoulder hanging off. When I get that from a player, nothing else matters. I’m not really interested in the result, because that comes from many different things, and Scotland are better than Italy at the moment.

“But I want to see passion and, if they’re going to lose, I want to see an opponent who is tired after winning. Scotland represent the dream I have for Italy. They’re a team and a rugby country that have worked hard to develop. When I first started out, Scotland were the six Nations side I looked at and thought we could beat. Now, they’re a side who frighten England and France and almost beat New Zealand. They’ve put real effort and continuity into growing the group and the individual players.”

Favaro became a firm favourite of the Glasgow crowd before Dave Rennie replaced him with Callum Gibbins in the summer of 2017. Still only 32, the 36-cap former openside has since trained as a policeman and has been at the forefront of enforcing Covid-19 restrictions on the ground in Rome.

Today is a day off so he will be able to watch the game at home but, come tomorrow, he will be back patrolling the streets of the Monte Mario district a short drive from the Stadio Olimpico where Scotland won 17-0 nine months ago.

“The [coronavirus case] numbers aren’t great at the moment. It’s a difficult time, like a rugby game that you have to prepare in the best possible way, studying the opponent. Some unexpected things can happen, but you have to be able to react.

“There are some positive signs from outside, like the news of the vaccine, but people are tired, because they’ve been living like this for so long. People are starting to rebel a bit and I understand. Human beings need release.

“We can do all the sums at the end and blame this or that person, but at the moment the priority is keeping going and keeping each other safe.”

Favaro’s partner, Lucrezia, is from Florence and the pair were in the city last weekend for his birthday. “I was a week too early for the game,” he grumbles. “Let’s get one thing straight, though: I played for Glasgow, I played for Gregor [Townsend], but I’ll be 100 per cent supporting Italy.”


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Post by tigertattie on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 12:48 pm

Italy have been going backwards while we’ve been going forwards.

We really should be winning this by a good 20 points
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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 12:55 pm

First penalty to Italy

3-0

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:01 pm

Wee duncy is playing like a backrower in defence.

Has someone told him he gets extra sweeties for turnovers?
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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:04 pm

What is going on with the Scottish scrum?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:04 pm

Not sure Scotland were expecting the Italian scrum to be quite like this.

Sutherland going off injured though which probably explains it.


Last edited by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:07 pm

Sunderland injured that might be the reason

Keeble won't weaken our scrum

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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:08 pm

Another penalty though

6-0 Italy

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Italy v Scotland Autumn nations Cup Saturday 14th November 2020 Empty Re: Italy v Scotland Autumn nations Cup Saturday 14th November 2020

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:10 pm

Our accuracy has been horrible so far, Italy much the better team in the first 20

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:14 pm

We really need to get the ball to Duhan more
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:14 pm

Yes Duhan! Finally put some phases together and the opportunity comes

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:14 pm

Much better there.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:15 pm

VDM is a weapon. Imagine him on Lions duty...

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:16 pm

Great play Italy, quality try!

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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:17 pm

Great try Italy

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:17 pm

Meatball isn’t going to want to watch that again

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:18 pm

Can’t take that away from Italy. Nice bit of offloading rugby
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Post by bsando on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:18 pm

awful miss tackle by Weir but great offloading by Italy

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:21 pm

Think darcy is injured
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:22 pm

Should have surely looked for support in that break.

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:23 pm

Another great run by duhan. He really needs to be give more ball. He’s devastating
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:24 pm

SJ already offering much more in attack than we’ve seen from Lang, good to have him back

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:25 pm

We’re getting a doing at the breakdown though!

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 1:26 pm

Lack of support. Harris made a good line there and got over the gainline but there was no one with him
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