Pichot's Tilt at Power - Rugby's Future

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Post by 123456789. on Mon 13 Apr 2020, 8:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

Agustin Pichot has announced he's running for World Rugby Chairman. Unfortunately the only in-depth article I could find with relative ease was in the Mail, so apologies for that. With the lull in rugby now, it seems a sensible time to discuss what Pichot's bid means and rugby's future generally.

Daily Mail wrote:Pichot's six-point plan includes:

Addressing the challenges of COVID-19 as part of a wider alignment of the global playing calendar, creating a 'compelling narrative' for men and women in XVs and Sevens. Clubs, unions and private equity firms will be consulted about an annual tournament featuring 12 to 14 Tests per nation per year.
A democratic governance structure. A long-term goal of scrapping the weighted vote system that gives more power to wealthy nations, as well as revenue sharing.
A growing grassroots and youth game, including focus on developing emerging nations such as Brazil and Tunisia.
A safe and entertaining game, featuring a dedicated World Rugby Innovation Department to look at projects such as Hawkeye technology and a flagship rugby computer game.
Mandatory athletes' commissions to put players at the heart of decision making – with discussions about reducing wages to create sustainability.
A World Rugby management 'fit for purpose' – reviewing all internal structures to 'restore trust' in the governing body.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-8211135/Argentinian-great-Agustin-Pichot-promises-revolution-challenges-World-Rugbys-job.html


Look like he's pretty set on the Nations Cup idea and breaking up the traditional rugby structures. I think one of the things people outside the Six Nations don't understand is that we don't want to change it because we actually quite like it. Equally running to scrap the voting rights of the old rugby nations doesn't work when the old rugby nations collectively hold 27 out of 50 votes. Nonetheless it is time for things to change. For rugby's commercial stability it's important to expand into new economies, it's interesting that Pichot has earmarked Brazil and Tunisia for this. Personally I am of the opinion that several nations give far more to our game than they get in return; primarily the Pacific Islanders, and that rugby will be a far more exciting sport if we can harness some of the world's bigger economies to create genuine rugby powers but that should not come at the expense of what we already love about our game. I love the Six Nations, not just because of the rugby but what it constitutes beyond rugby. As a Scotland fan I know that in a good year we could win the tournament, as a realist I know that we will never win a 12 team Nations league. Rugby needs to learn the lesson that bigger does not always constitute better.

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Post by Old Man on Tue 05 May 2020, 4:40 pm

OK, so basically NZRU and ARU want the prize money in this global international championship?

That is how they figure they will get more?

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Post by Brendan on Tue 05 May 2020, 4:45 pm

I can't see how they can make the pot bigger so they have to divide up the current pot where the NZRU & RA get more. If they get more then others must get less.

Both Unions get more than everyone except England France and maybe Wales. So where do two of the top earning nations get the extra money if not from those below them (can't see England and France just giving up money only)

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Post by Brendan on Tue 05 May 2020, 8:24 pm

I got the RA income wrong

Roughly for 18/19 NH 2018 SH
RFU €240m
FFR ???
NZRU €106m
WRU €104m
IRFU €87.5m
RA €71m (took a massive drop from 2017 which was €88m)
SRU €70m
SARU €65m (don't include provisional unions who are separate as far as I can tell)


Last edited by Brendan on Tue 05 May 2020, 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Brendan on Tue 05 May 2020, 8:26 pm

So RA are hoping to run 4 teams keeping their stars at home on roughly the same money as Scotland run two teams and let the stars go

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Post by 123456789. on Tue 05 May 2020, 10:16 pm

Brendan wrote:So RA are hoping to run 4 teams keeping their stars at home on roughly the same money as Scotland run two teams and let the stars go

Worth delving further on that:

So Australia has a population four times Scotlands. Australia has a GDP per capita larger than the UK of which Scotland is a poorer constituent part. Australia therefore has a larger potential market than Scotland. In the last year of pre-expansion Super Rugby the average Australian attendance was 16898, this season it was 7324. I don't think the problem is the global structure of rugby rather the decisions made by RA and SANZAAR. The solution they have found means taking money from outwith SANZAAR to save NZ and Australia.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 06 May 2020, 7:51 am

Why are people bitching that England and France have the most money?

Have you seen the size of our populations?

Not rocket science is it!
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Post by Brendan on Wed 06 May 2020, 10:49 am

Who is complaining

I think you will see they are mentioned in term of where do NZRU and RA think they will get this extra money as they have as much or more already than the others.

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Post by 123456789. on Fri 08 May 2020, 12:10 am

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/121409628/the-big-white-lie-of-new-zealand-rugby?cid=facebook.post&fbclid=IwAR2Vmq9laDOGjQoC2qJVT3M6KIRtU0iR4vG_ydFtApAA_490iRpRuxd6nhs

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 12 May 2020, 4:25 pm

Good article in the rugby paper backing Bill.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 12 May 2020, 6:07 pm

Missed the bit where they backed Beamount. Which part of his plan did they like the best?

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 13 May 2020, 11:51 am

Pichot has resigned from World Rugby. what a sore loser, after all Bill did for him too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52648146
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Post by Old Man on Wed 13 May 2020, 1:05 pm

I would think it is honorable of Pichot to resign if he believes he cannot make a change.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 13 May 2020, 2:09 pm

Very true biltong.

Still waiting for that response to my question tight.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 13 May 2020, 2:34 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Still waiting for that response to my question tight.

keep waiting then. Laugh

Still salty about backing the wrong guy. Whistle
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 13 May 2020, 2:49 pm

Could it be possible that your inability to answer it was that there isnt a part of it where they discuss Beaumonts plans? Ie not so much ' backing bill's going on.
Why would I be salty for recognising that Pichot correctly identified a number of key issues? Everyone on this thread pretty much recognises them though there are a number of people who didnt like something that pichot didnt say he was going to do anyway!
Why are you so bothered about pichot anyway tight as you said neither affected change anyway? Just a xenophobia thing?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 13 May 2020, 2:52 pm

Next up for Beaumont is the clubs wanting more say. Quite rightly they were approached by Pichot and Beaumont would do well to get them.onside quickly for when he launched his campaign for a nations league against.

World Rugby: English & French clubs want say over new schedule - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52626881

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 13 May 2020, 3:20 pm

Pichot wanted 6 nations money to be shared out to help grow the bank balances of SANZAAR, nothing more, nothing less.

Thankfully the NH teams stuck together for once.

Great win Bill. clap clap clap clap
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 13 May 2020, 3:52 pm

So which parts of Beaumont s pledges are you most looking forward to seeing tight as you are unable to point to where the rugby paper actually offered support?

You looking forward to the nations league?

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 13 May 2020, 4:08 pm

Not heard of Google.

Buffoonery equal to Boris on show here. Laugh

The Saltiness continues. Even imply I have an issue with Pichot because he is Argentinian, How desperate is that! laughing Wake up son its 2020 not 1980!
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Post by Old Man on Wed 13 May 2020, 4:23 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Pichot wanted 6 nations money to be shared out to help grow the bank balances of SANZAAR, nothing more, nothing less.

Thankfully the NH teams stuck together for once.

Great win Bill. clap clap clap clap

You need to be a bit more clear on Pichot wants six nations money.


Pichot wanted the AI revenue shared more equally.

that is enitrely different to your take of revenue sharing.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 13 May 2020, 4:25 pm

Google it and read the rugbypaper article.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 13 May 2020, 5:05 pm

I've read it. No mention. So which part of Beaumonts pledges are you looking forward to tight. The nations league?

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 13 May 2020, 6:16 pm

Lol never going to happen. Move on and stop being Salty.

You backed the wrong man and lost all credibility with you false/desperate accusations.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 13 May 2020, 7:05 pm

You're never going to say which pledge of his you liked best and swung you? So many great ones obviously. Think we're all looking forward to the new nations league though.

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Post by Old Man on Wed 13 May 2020, 7:07 pm

Tight head has an anti SH bias, hence he cannot justify his stance, because he isn’t honest about it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 13 May 2020, 7:07 pm

Oh I know. I just like the fact he ties himself in knots doing it.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 14 May 2020, 12:29 pm

Armchair rugby fans do not have a clue, get out there and get involved with your local clubs.
We have no need to fund SH rugbys inability to manage finances, we need to fund grassroots more.

Congratulations on a fantastic easy win Bill. right man for the job.  thumbsup
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 14 May 2020, 1:17 pm

Hes the right man indeed. What from his pledges are you most looking forward to? I think the nations league will bring a better balance to the global game and help share the profits.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 14 May 2020, 1:35 pm

So you still haven't read the Rugbypaper article then! Rolling Eyes

I am not going to spoon feed you like a toddler, Google it.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 14 May 2020, 2:02 pm

Yeah I have. I had done before I asked the first question.
The rugby paper doesnt say what you personally are looking forward to though tight. What pledges are you looking forward to? Nations league seems to be high on your list and you supported Beaumont from the start so must be excited about the shake up that he'll bring.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 14 May 2020, 2:42 pm

Is the AI money shared in a different way to the money from the Summer tours to the SH? Sorry its not something im totally clued up on.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 14 May 2020, 2:53 pm

Depends on the team I believe. New zealand are pretty well set for AIs as they can basically demand a fee and teams will pay it as they know they'll make their money. Samoa less so. And how often do Samoa get the big teams (full teams) playing in their back yard? People here have generally been cranky as they think SA, Australia, NZ: shows the issue which pichot identified and Beaumont now needs to deal with ie bias to the traditional rugby nations.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 14 May 2020, 3:39 pm

Yes that whole aspect does need addressing .

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 14 May 2020, 3:40 pm

picard
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 14 May 2020, 3:45 pm

Thoughts tight head? On this or the question on which aspect of Beumonts plans you re looking forward to most?

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 14 May 2020, 3:48 pm

Makes no odds, the 6 nations will continue to be played in its traditional and very successful format. Bill knows this too. great man Bill, no idea why anyone would have backed Pichot over him in the first place. but then again there are a lot of crazy people out there!
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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 14 May 2020, 4:03 pm

The game needs to grow Tight head.

For all the 6n is great...there are developing European and Rest of the world teams that need to be given more exposure.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 14 May 2020, 4:16 pm

So switch one of his proposals do you think is best tight head?

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 15 May 2020, 2:01 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:The game needs to grow Tight head.

For all the 6n is great...there are developing European and Rest of the world teams that need to be given more exposure.

These Countries need to grow the game themselves, why should other RFUs support them?

There used to be a bloke down the road from me who earned more money than me, I didn't expect him to give me money to help my bank balance grow. I had to do that myself. Now I have a newer car, a younger wife and bigger/higher spec house than him.

Thats life. Whistle
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 15 May 2020, 2:02 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So switch one of his proposals do you think is best tight head?

Makes no odds as the home unions will vote against all changes. Very naive to think anything will change. Laugh
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 15 May 2020, 2:11 pm

Why would they vote against Beaumont? I thought we'd decided his views were great. Nations league is obviously a huge step forward.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 15 May 2020, 2:12 pm

£££££££££s................... thats why. Laugh
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Post by Old Man on Fri 15 May 2020, 2:14 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:The game needs to grow Tight head.

For all the 6n is great...there are developing European and Rest of the world teams that need to be given more exposure.

These Countries need to grow the game themselves, why should other RFUs support them?

There used to be a bloke down the road from me who earned more money than me, I didn't expect him to give me money to help my bank balance grow. I had to do that myself. Now I have a newer car, a younger wife and bigger/higher spec house than him.

Thats life. Whistle

And a healthy ego to go with that, eh?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 15 May 2020, 2:14 pm

So they'd be getting more money so they'd vote against him?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 15 May 2020, 2:15 pm

Walter Mitty sized ego old man.

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 19 May 2020, 11:30 am

Sorry about the late reply, been picking the colour and options for my new Range Rover.

How would they get more money?

Explain yourself.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 19 May 2020, 12:18 pm

Still waiting for an answer to my question Walt.

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Post by BamBam on Tue 19 May 2020, 12:25 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Sorry about the late reply, been picking the colour and options for my new Range Rover.

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 19 May 2020, 2:05 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Still waiting for an answer to my question Walt.

How would they make more money?

Explain. laughing
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 19 May 2020, 2:33 pm

Come on walt.

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