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BBC "Rugby and Race" podcast.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Jun 2020, 5:15 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p08gh94p

This special episode was hosted by Ugo Monye and Chris Jones, with contributions from Maro Itoje, Beno Obano, Anthony Watson, Christian Wade, Nathan Earle and Collin Osborne.

Inevitably, an 80 minute podcast isn't going to air all relevant topics, let alone come up with solutions. However, there were some interesting contributions.

Ugo Monye's wife, Lucy, is white, and he explains how much of a shock it was for her to encounter racial abuse, especially towards her daughter. When Monye was working at the World Cup in Japan, a man in a park told Lucy her daughter was a monkey. Obano had asked Monye whether he had spoken with his wife about racism before they had children. He confessed he didn't, but wishes he had.

Monye noted people have often said he's the "whitest black man they know", which Itoje called "troubling on so many levels".

Osbourne, who was technical director and skills coach at Quins, noted that much early development of all players happens at school. He says black players often get thought of in purely physical terms, so they are more likely to be, for instance, assigned to the wing for their pace, rather than as a half back.

Chris Jones wondered whether he is also to quick to pigeonhole people. He notes how he focuses on George Kruis as a deep lineout thinker, while celebrating Courtney Lawes for his big hits, whichtends to ignore the times Lawes runs the lineout, and Kruis uses his power. Similarly, he reflected on how he thinks of Mike Brown as a real competitor, and Watson an athlete, when Watson battled back from serious injury, while Brown is athletic enogh to have been selected on the wing.

Many of the players recalled incidents when an offensive remark was dismissed as banter, which seemed like an attempt to shift the blame to them for not having a sense of humour. Watson said Kyle Eastmond pulled him up for not being aware of how he might be enabling people to make offensive comments.

Worth a listen, if you have the time.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 10 Jun 2020, 7:15 am

And then you have bbc sport yesterday talking about Genge s support of the ripping down of a statue in Bristol with a pic of ludlam.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 10 Jun 2020, 12:04 pm

Seems a bit of an opportunity missed, to not have had Ashton Hewitt on the programme.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 Jun 2020, 4:34 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Seems a bit of an opportunity missed, to not have had Ashton Hewitt on the programme.

Think the guests largely reflected people who had already discussed race issues with Ugo in private. He knew roughly what experiences they already had, so it was easier to draw out their stories during the podcast. Monye, Itoje and Obano all share Nigerian roots; he knows Wade and Watson personally; worked at Quins with Osborne, while Earle is a Quins players these days too. When Monye was thinking of putting this podcast together, theses were probably the first people he thought of.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 10 Jun 2020, 5:05 pm

Fair enough, was only thinking that he has obviously spoken of his issues recently, rather than suggesting the programme was biased or so forth.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 12 Jun 2020, 8:19 am

Wow, Wales online facebook comments sort of prove what Eddie is on about.

England star reveals Eddie Jones and players were racially abused on 2018 tour.
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 12 Jun 2020, 10:07 am

TightHEAD wrote:Wow, Wales online facebook comments sort of prove what Eddie is on about.

England star reveals Eddie Jones and players were racially abused on 2018 tour.

Did they tour Wales in 2018?

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 12 Jun 2020, 10:44 am

Gooseberry wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Wow, Wales online facebook comments sort of prove what Eddie is on about.

England star reveals Eddie Jones and players were racially abused on 2018 tour.

Did they tour Wales in 2018?

Good one! Laugh

But the hate for Eddie and England is real. #BeKind
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Post by nlpnlp on Fri 12 Jun 2020, 10:32 pm

I think a fair bit of the "hate" for Eddie Jones is because of the bullsh!t he comes out with. His comment about reporters not being able to tell half-Asians apart was a very very cheap shot.

Wales, Scotland and Ireland 'dislike' England because of history. Hate is not a word I would like to use for that.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 13 Jun 2020, 1:15 pm

Disliking people because of where they are from is just as bad as racism.  There is a joke in Ireland how us Irish loved people of different colour when they weren't in Ireland. It's only when they came to Ireland we became racist.  Hating an Englishman because he is English is wrong.  Is he responsible for his ancestors who outside of these two islands fought side by side with Welsh Scots and Irish to build the empire.

Yes rivalry and joking is fine as long as everyone enjoys it. If someone is an idiot it's ok to dislike them because they are idiots.  If Jones was Scottish or Welsh coach would he be seen the same way by the same people.

With all the things going on right now it is easy to blame bad outcomes on colour of people's skin rather than other factors.  If you look at soccer and the number of Brittish coloured mangers in the premiership.  It's is more down to how the premiership and championship recruit mangers then the racism.  The top 30 teams in English soccer want success right now.  Most bring in established managers who have proved themselves in other leagues (Most Brittish people don't work abroad in soccer). This results in having to start lower down and when you can't beat teams above you, you are cast aside.  But because the top mangers are being taken from other leagues such as the Dutch then there are always openings for the rest of the mangers in that league to now become the best.  There aren't many Asian people in sport other than cricket in the UK.  This is predominantly down to interest in other sports and how Asians do better in school/academic or are more likely to be working in a family business at a younger age

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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 15 Jun 2020, 11:51 am

I just cannot fathom how anyone can dislike an entire nation because of their history. It sounds like a ridiculous excuse to be a pratt. I'm Irish and I 'dislike' more Irish than I do English simply because I know more Irish people than English and to really dislike someone you have to get to know them first.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 15 Jun 2020, 12:04 pm

The main difference between racism and xenophobia (agree both linked by irrational hatred) is that you have to know something about someone to dislike/hate them because they are a specific nationality. Racism only requires seeing someone. If I were to walk down Grafton St in Dublin, Westgate in Cardiff or Princes St in Edinburgh, and assuming no team colours, until I spoke there would be no indication I were English. My daughter is unable to hide her skin colour for which she has been abused with a distressing frequency.

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