Potential Lions Squad - The Back Three

First topic message reminder :

Changing it up, let's have a look at the back three options from each home nation. Who would you select in your Lions back three?

South Africa had a wonderful balance to theirs in the RWC last year with the small yet deadly Kolbe and the electric Mapimpi with the former Wasp Le Roux at fullback.  

This is a hard one with a lot of good options. In 2017 Gatland took nine players who were capable of playing in the back three, two of which were also capable of playing at centre. So select a possible 7 back three players and a couple of utility players for this one. Then three injury call ups (three players were injured on the last tour, North, Hogg and Payne). Or just select as you please or who you think Gatland will select.

To add another angle, which former back three Lions will be left out of next years tour?

As with the last threads, players listed below are from RWC2019 and 6N 2020 squads. Add who you like and who you think may be selected (E.g, DHVM will be eligible for Scotland soon and could potentially tour) and of course, bolters!

England

Elliot Daly, Anthony Watson, Johnny May, Ollie Thorley, George Furbank, Joe Cokanasiga, Ruaridh McConnochie, Jack Nowell

Ireland

Jordan Larmour, Will Addison, Jacob Stockdale, Dave Kearney, Keith Earles, Andrew Conway

Scotland

Sean Maitland, Stuart Hogg, Darcy Graham, Blair Kinghorn, Kyle Steyn, Ratu Tagive, Byron McGuigan, Duncan Taylor

Wales

Josh Adams, Liam Williams, Jonah Holmes, Leigh Halfpenny, Louis Rees-Zammit, George North, Johnny McNicholl, Owen Lane, Josh Adams, Hallam Amos,

mikey_dragon wrote:Definitely an area of strength for the Lions. It may surprise some but I don’t actually think South Africa’s wingers are that good. 

For Wales I think Adams, Liam Williams are on the plane and potentially test starters. I rate our other wingers very highly but doubt there’ll be any more. Potentially Rees-Zammit as a ‘bolter’ or perhaps he will be a form pick by then. If Scotland are poaching him then I’d also like to see Duhan Van der Merwe tour. I’m not sure if he’d be a test starter but he is certainly ahead of North and Cokanasiga.

If Hogg starts at 15 then I half-expect Williams to be on the wing.

Big fan of Williams and it's a toss up between him and Hogg for 15 but as a winger there are better options. I'm not sure what he'd be bringing to the team ahead of Adams, May, Watson, Larmour or Stockdale.

Williams is a great attacker and under the high ball but Hogg's kicking game in addition to his attacking abilities (which he's regained his mojo with) edges him ahead for me. He'll be like a man possessed to try and get that test place given what happened last tour.

Either way we're spoilt for choice in the back 3 and a number of combinations would do the job!

Williams as class from full-back and wing. On the wing I've noticed he is involved more as he looks for work. When he's at 15 I've also noticed that teams try to avoid kicking it to him. Williams started his club and international career on the wing, he's been tested there by the best opposition and always come out strong. If Gatland wants all the best players in this test team then perhaps Williams will be starting in one of these positions.
Yes he is a great kicker too, not sure if it's a bigger boot than Hogg's.

My back 3 would be may hogg watson

Expect Gatland to go Adams, Williams, watson

Adams, Williams and Watson - probably the best option tbh.

I can't say i'd be picking Adams over May especially against South Africa.

Swap May for Watson then, or better yet North for Watson....

Woolly Le Roux
Dolly Thirley
Bryan Habaaaana

Mikey's dream back 3

Bit of a curve ball here, what about James Lowe? He's eligible for Ireland come November.

mikey_dragon wrote:Swap May for Watson then, or better yet North for Watson....

I think I want the two wingers who are best in the air so May and Watson it is with Williams.

Maine man wrote:Bit of a curve ball here, what about James Lowe? He's eligible for Ireland come November. 

Not a bad shout, he’s pretty handy. Depth was already ridiculous without him and VDM though.

Soul Requiem wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Swap May for Watson then, or better yet North for Watson....

I think I want the two wingers who are best in the air so May and Watson it is with Williams.

That good in the air huh? That’s a strength for Williams too (third test against NZ aside). It’s something else Biggar is good at but I already thought he would be well suited to playing the Boks anyway.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Swap May for Watson then, or better yet North for Watson....

I think I want the two wingers who are best in the air so May and Watson it is with Williams.

That good in the air huh? That’s a strength for Williams too (third test against NZ aside). It’s something else Biggar is good at but I already thought he would be well suited to playing the Boks anyway.

Do we want to be playing the Boks way, or have a plan to counter it and play our way when we have the ball?

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Swap May for Watson then, or better yet North for Watson....

I think I want the two wingers who are best in the air so May and Watson it is with Williams.

That good in the air huh? That’s a strength for Williams too (third test against NZ aside). It’s something else Biggar is good at but I already thought he would be well suited to playing the Boks anyway.

Do we want to be playing the Boks way, or have a plan to counter it and play our way when we have the ball?

Not sure. I know whenever Wales beat them is because they were nullified up front, and we didn't allow them to control the air and territory. They are vulnerable to good attacking play but Wales weren't able to keep up the intensity for the full 80 - the Lions would have more players able to do that though. Boks look strong up front and in defence so we need to match them at least.

I'm not sure if Biggar will start. I would probably opt for Russell/Hastings with Farrell at 12. I just can't see Sexton making it, but I suppose he could get the nod after this rest.

Hasting's is a curveball there Mikey. Good player but I think Ford will be ahead of him if Gats is thinking of two playmakers with Farrell at 12. I'm biased with Ford (Tigers and England fan) but he's been in fine form for the last 18 months.

That said I think I'd go with Farrell at 10 against the Boks. If Manu and JDv2 are fully fit (note fully there given their injury issues...) then they'd be my go to centre pairing. Hogg at fullback as a second playmaker where needed.

Unless Murray can re-find his best form I think we will see one of the impressive 3 Welsh scrum-halves starting hence may play off 9 more as that's suited to all three of them. Playing of 9 more negates the need for Faz at 12 to an extent. With so many good forward carriers (a strength for the home nations currently) I'd be very happy with playing of 9 a fair bit.

9.T Williams/Davies
10.Farrell
11.May
12.Tuilagi
13.Davies
14.Watson
15.Hogg

21.Murray
22.Russell
23.L Williams

I'd love if Murray recaptures his best form for the tactical options something like that'd offer. If a direct style as Gats tends to favour isn't working then Russell coming on at 10 and Faz moving to 12 offers something completely different. Equally if we are losing the territorial game then an in form Murray and Sanjay can completely change the game plan in that regard.

Likely neither Hastings nor Russell will be in the squad. Hastings cause he's behind Russell, and Russell cause he fell out with Townsend! That's Gatlands ideal excuse not to pick him.

Gats will likely go with Anscombe, Biggar, Farell and Ford .

I've just read through some of the great comments on here, some nice points on players and tactics. It also made me think of how we often mention "who will Gatland pick?" yet he doesn't really pick the squad on his own. That with the help of his assistant coaches he decides on the players to tour. So I think for a more even representation you need coaches from all four home nations on a Gatland lions tour.

For good reasoning, Townsend and O'Halloran both turned down roles with the Lions in 2017 due to both being in transitional periods (Scotland and Glasgow Warriors respectively) which I am certain probably resulted in at least one or two Scottish players not making the tour.

In 2013 we had Gatland: Head Coach (Wal), Assistant Coaches: Rob Howley (Wal), Graham Rowan Tree (Eng), Andy Farrell (Ire), Neil Jenkins (Wal)

In 2017 it was Gatland: Head Coach (Wal), Assistant Coaches: Rob Howley (Wal), Steve Borthwick (Eng), Graham Rowan Tree (Eng), Andy Farrell (Ire), Neil Jenkins (Wal)

Townsend has mentioned in recent interviews that he is definitely keen to tour in 2021 now that he's settled. He would be a perfect swap for Rob Howley who is readjusting his career.

Gatland really rates Wig as a forwards and scrum coach so I'd be surprised if Rowntree isn't involved again.

Defence coach will be interesting as most the top options have big roles elsewhere now. Edwards is with France, Farrell with Ireland, Gustard at Quins. I somehow can't see John Mitchell in the Lions set-up but he's a very good coach who has done a good job with England's defence.

Steve Borthwick was assistant coach last time but will be head coach at Tigers now. He could potentially still be involved though. Having Wig and Borthwick working with the forwards worked well in 2017.

I'd love Farrell to be defence coach again as he's outstanding at it but being head coach with Ireland is a big commitment. Perhaps a club coach running defence such as Pat Sanderson from Sarries?

Head coach - Gatland
Defence coach - ???
Attack/backs coach - Townsend
Forwards coach - Rowntree

A couple of curveballs from younger coaches with growing reputations. Ronan O'Gara as a kicking coach and assisting the attack/backs? Sam Vesty assisting the backs? Sam Warburton as a breakdown specialist? Geoff Parling as a line-out specialist?

Another even curvier curve ball. Former Kiwi coach Wayne Smith still has some contact at former employer Chiefs where Gats is now coaching. Smith has one of the best rugby minds and would be a huge asset to a Lions set-up. He has worked across attack, defence and head coach roles with All Blacks so has incredible experience in the game.

I don’t think it’s much of a curveball to suggest Russell and Hastings when they’ve both been in good form for prolonged periods. That’s how it is now. Usually I’d expect Patchell and Anscombe to be in the mix but can’t say for sure right now given the injury lay-offs both have had. 

Wayne Smith would be an interesting appointment. I half expect Warburton to be there too now that you’ve mentioned it.

15 Hogg
14 Adams
11 May.

Larmour on bench.

I think I want the two wingers who are best in the air

That would be Tommy Seymour on one wing, Liam Wiliams on the other and Hogg at FB then

king_carlos wrote:Gatland really rates Wig as a forwards and scrum coach so I'd be surprised if Rowntree isn't involved again.

Defence coach will be interesting as most the top options have big roles elsewhere now. Edwards is with France, Farrell with Ireland, Gustard at Quins. I somehow can't see John Mitchell in the Lions set-up but he's a very good coach who has done a good job with England's defence.

Steve Borthwick was assistant coach last time but will be head coach at Tigers now. He could potentially still be involved though. Having Wig and Borthwick working with the forwards worked well in 2017.

I'd love Farrell to be defence coach again as he's outstanding at it but being head coach with Ireland is a big commitment. Perhaps a club coach running defence such as Pat Sanderson from Sarries?

Head coach - Gatland
Defence coach - ???
Attack/backs coach - Townsend
Forwards coach - Rowntree

A couple of curveballs from younger coaches with growing reputations. Ronan O'Gara as a kicking coach and assisting the attack/backs? Sam Vesty assisting the backs? Sam Warburton as a breakdown specialist? Geoff Parling as a line-out specialist?

Another even curvier curve ball. Former Kiwi coach Wayne Smith still has some contact at former employer Chiefs where Gats is now coaching. Smith has one of the best rugby minds and would be a huge asset to a Lions set-up. He has worked across attack, defence and head coach roles with All Blacks so has incredible experience in the game.

Alex Sanderson is a superb forwards/defence coach at Sarries and surely Sarries can spare him as they could win the Championship with their second team wearing blindfolds.

Outsider point of view but think a back three of 15. Hogg, 14. Liam Williams , 11. Jonny May . I know Welshman will say Adams over Williams or even better !5. Williams , 14. Adams but I think against SA you dont want predictable elements because Rassie will plan and Nienebar will drill his defence for predictable elements. You want crazy guys and those three would be the craziest trio all three are game breakers and match winners who arent afraid and are proven to run it back if theres even the smallest sniff of a chance. Also very useful to have two fullbacks given the Boks will hoof the leather off the ball

Yeah I also suggested Liam Williams would be a good option for the wing, but I was attacked and dismissed as a WUM.

May
Hogg
Watson

Williams bench.

alive555 wrote:May
Hogg
Watson

Williams bench.

Not bad either. Would prefer some sort of utility or centre on the bench though. Slade or Daly for example. Slade for me, covers 13 and 15 very well and a former fly-half so he has good skills.

Hogg and Williams are the two best back 3 players available by far. Williams can play wing and do so very well. Gatland needs to get both in the team.

the high risk strategy would be to have Darcy Graham or Duhan van der Merve on the other wing - both on fire with fantastic try scoring abilities in very different ways.

May has been the best winger in the world for about the last 3 years now. Excellent defender. Amazing in the air. Lethal. Pace aplenty. It ll surely take an injury or a massive dip in form for him not start.

No 7&1/2 wrote:May has been the best winger in the world for about the last 3 years now. Excellent defender. Amazing in the air. Lethal. Pace aplenty. It ll surely take an injury or a massive dip in form for him not start.

I think I would probably go with Cheslin Colby myself if we are talking best in the world!

I would be happy with May as best in UK though, which as far as Lions selections go, is what matters.

Kolbe is the most exciting winger in the world right now but May is the more rounder winger.

May has been class over a number of years now. Even when england play badly hes class. Kolbe s form has been good. So has Adams. As above neither has the overall game of may.

BigGee wrote:I would be happy with May as best in UK though, which as far as Lions selections go, is what matters.

You will upset the Irish. You will be calling them the British Lions next.

Exiledinborders wrote:

BigGee wrote:I would be happy with May as best in UK though, which as far as Lions selections go, is what matters.

You will upset the Irish. You will be calling them the British Lions next.

Yes, I will put my hand up to that one and apologise to my Irish brethren.

TJ wrote:Hogg and Williams are the two best back 3 players available by far. Williams can play wing and do so very well. Gatland needs to get both in the team.

the high risk strategy would be to have Darcy Graham or Duhan van der Merve on the other wing - both on fire with fantastic try scoring abilities in very different ways.

Jonny May has been the form winger in the NH (if not the world) for the last 3-4 years. His scoring record, especially against the top sides is peerless in the NH. Added to his high-ball dominance and defence means he’s a definite starter as it stands.

Williams at full-back would be my choice. Combative and would really give it to SA. Watson on the other wing. Pure class.

I think TJ May be on the wind-up?

Cyril wrote:

TJ wrote:Hogg and Williams are the two best back 3 players available by far.  Williams can play wing and do so very well.  Gatland needs to get both in the team.

the high risk strategy would be to have Darcy Graham or Duhan van der Merve on the other wing - both on fire with fantastic try scoring abilities in very different ways.

Jonny May has been the form winger in the NH (if not the world) for the last 3-4 years. His scoring record, especially against the top sides is peerless in the NH. Added to his high-ball dominance and defence means he’s a definite starter as it stands.

Williams at full-back would be my choice. Combative and would really give it to SA. Watson on the other wing. Pure class.

I think TJ May be on the wind-up?

I don’t think he is to be fair. Hogg is rated as the best 15 by many. He was also right in saying that Williams is class from wing or at 15. VDM isn’t capped yet but looks very good, but will need to step up before thinking about being a Lion. Watson is a good player but there might just be better wingers available if Hogg and Williams are the other starters, such is the strength of this position right now. In addition to Watson there’s May, Adams, Stockdale, Larmour, Daly; and some Welsh outsiders like Rees-Zammit, North and McNicholl - neither of these 3 are likely to be in the test team but I rate them and think they could step up - the North selection is based on reputation but he’s been living off that for a while now.

I think Hogg’s time has gone. He may tour as a back-up or for the dirt-trackers.

I just fail to see how anyone doesn’t see May as the starting winger. You pick a full back and a wing and May is the other.

North is nowhere unless Gats has hidden photos.

Hogg along with Itoje are the only certain starters imho. hogg appears in literally every pundits choice at FB. So unless he has a big drop in form, can't see him not being a key player for the lions.

Hogg will not be a key player - not because he is not good enough but because Gatland will not pick Scots

Gats may or may not have been bias against Scotland on previous tours, but he never has had any issues with Hoggy.

He has picked him twice and is on record as saying he would have started the tests last time out if he had not been injured.

He seems to be making the right noises about picking a more balanced squad this time around. He is also probably being helped by some more Scots genuinely putting their hands up.

To me though, maybe the biggest difference might be that he is no longer tied to one of the home countries and can therefore be more objective kn his selections this time.

I guess we will see when the squad is announced.

Hogg will definitely travel. I think McInally has a very good shot as well. I'd be surprised if both of Watson and Ritchie miss out. On current form Fagerson has an strong chance too in a position that falls off after the excellent Furlong and Sinckler.

Jonny Gray (possibly Richie too...) and Sutherland will be in the discussion in competitive positions. If Murray and Youngs don't show better form this season then Ali Price should be in the discussion too.

Centre I find difficult to predict with a lot of key players having recent injury issues. If Huw Jones finds form then he is a very good player who wouldn't be cowed by touring South Africa.

Darcy and Duhan are interesting options on the wing.

Finn is Finn. He'll be doing Finn things on the pitch, Finn things off the pitch. Gatland will decide whether or not he likes Finn things.

I think we could well see Hogg and Williams starting together. Both great in the air and for countering from bad kicks. Also both great at kicking long on the high veldt.
Put them with a finisher like May or Adams or Stockdale and I think that's a decent shout.
Altho Larmour could well push his way in.
So many great choices

I'd be very surprised if Watson didn't start if fit. I really rate May but I still think Watson is England's best winger. The backline just functions better with him there. He's got a fantastic all round game which is important for the Lions when unfamiliar players are getting thrown in together.

I rate Sanjay so highly for his aerial skills. Great in defence (defending Faf/Pollard's kicks will be vital) and attacking on kick chase.

For me Williams and Watson will start for their all round games if they are fully fit as they suit Gatland's likely game plan. From there it's currently between Hogg and May for the 3rd spot in my opinion.

There is talent across the back three though. Nowell and Daly toured NZ, played well. Adams is a very rounded wing. Stockdale is a weapon as a finishers. Larmour has phenomenal footwork and a strong kicking game. Then Graham, Duhan, James Lowe and Rees-Lightning as potential bolter type players. A good place to be.

king_carlos wrote:Hogg will definitely travel. I think McInally has a very good shot as well. I'd be surprised if both of Watson and Ritchie miss out. On current form Fagerson has an strong chance too in a position that falls off after the excellent Furlong and Sinckler.

Jonny Gray (possibly Richie too...) and Sutherland will be in the discussion in competitive positions. If Murray and Youngs don't show better form this season then Ali Price should be in the discussion too.

Centre I find difficult to predict with a lot of key players having recent injury issues. If Huw Jones finds form then he is a very good player who wouldn't be cowed by touring South Africa.

Darcy and Duhan are interesting options on the wing.

Finn is Finn. He'll be doing Finn things on the pitch, Finn things off the pitch. Gatland will decide whether or not he likes Finn things.

No way Kingy.

Finn is the antithesis of Gatland's philosophy of how rugby should be played. remember the Geo 7! Finn made the bench for a midweek game before one of the tests. We all knew the only chance he had of being in the Test 23 was if the back up 10 was injured during the match ( gats made it clear that the Geo7 boys would only get on the pitch if there was an injury) and then he played so well that he couldn't be ignored.
Well the starting 10 (whose name slips my memory) had to go off for a HIA, late in the second half with the Dirttrackers in the lead, Finn came on and looked very comfortable and 9 minutes and 59 seconds later gats sent back the starting 10 back on. Gatland would rather risk a player he wanted in the Test 23 rather than allow Finn to cause him problems by playing too well. Finn flounced straight down the tunnel and I'd be very surprised if Gats remained on his Christmas card list.

Seriously, you've more chance of touring as a 10 than Finn has.

8 games lost on the trot for Gatland in NZ. I think the wheels may be coming off a bit. Hard to feel much sympathy as a Scotland fan but concerning as far as the Lions are concerned.

Gatland would do well to be less conservative than normal this tour and bring in some proper fresh blood coaching and player-wise. Won't happen though.

Expect to be outmuscled in SA playing a dull brand of Warrenball.

Or... In an unexpected twist Gatland says he needs to stay in NZ before his position there becomes untenable. We're left looking for a coach to step up just under a year out. Much as I think he's a motormouth, EJ would be a decent option as he does know his stuff. Doubt that'll happen though, Gatland probably will be very quickly looking for a job back up North so needs to sell himself here.

Oh dear, some Scots really do have it in for Gatland . You can tell he never lost to them.

Oh don't get me wrong, there's a grudging respect for his record. He's just not my cup of tea as a coach!

Anyone who refuses to keep a player on the pitch (Russell) or bring on a player to replace someone who is absolutely blowing and needs replacing (Grant for Vunipola) or completely ignores the wing with great try scoring form on tour (Seymour) for seemingly no reason other than that they're part of a team he has no respect for is pretty poor. Him beating Scotland doesn't bother me, him treating our players like deadwood on tour does.

Hes now due to take a season break from the chiefs isnt he? He will need the lions to try and mend his reputation.

They started super rugby very well, but yeah chiefs have been gash as of late. I’m not too sure why. Gatland probably looking ahead to the Lions already might be part of the problem, NZ should have maybe offered a 2 year contract post Lions tour. Either way it’s our gain. Gats knows how to go from zero to hero, and he’s done it twice with the Lions already. I haven’t lost faith in him yet but questions are rightly being asked.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hes now due to take a season break from the chiefs isnt he? He will need the lions to try and mend his reputation.

Yeah much as I feel he's not a quitter I think he'll be keen to ensure his bridges aren't burnt here to have an out when the pitchforks come out at Chiefs, so doubt that he'll renege on the Lions. He is very much a NH coach now and I have a feeling, unless we see dramatic improvements, it'll only be a few years before he gets another coaching gig here. Maybe in the prem again or France.

As long as it's not england I'd be happy for him!