PGA Tour running commentary - July

Just a tbought... Since Kwini is apparently taking a break (but we hope to have him back soon)... maybe it's time to start a new thread...

I have no interested trying to create notes...  But it appears that the big topic right now beyond getting golf started again is BRYSON and the other bombers obliterating golf courses.

Wouldn't it be crazy if Bryson DeChambeau turned out to be the catalyst to finally get the USGA and R&A off their collective asses regarding distance... Or are they too busy negotiating TV contracts and upgrading clubhouses to even care about the state of the game anymore?

Anyway... If y'all approve (and the mods have an interest in pinning this up top) maybe we can converse here?  It's up to you.

The smart ass response I keep seeing on Twitter is that "but BDC hasn't won this year". As if that totally negates having to think about what it would mean if more guys kept hitting it as long as him.

Although he must be presenting the club very consistently and accurately to the ball otherwise at those swing speeds he would be firing off the planet. And if it is true that he is able to swing that fast and still present an aligned sweet spot then shouldn't he be rewarded?

I have thought for a while now that the outright length isn't an issue but that the better drivers of the ball are not able to gain the strokes their superior ball striking deserves. For example without the current tech making the sweet spot so large how is Rory who hits it bang out the middle supposed to exert is superiority if someone else can just lash it, miss the sweet spot but only be 5 yards behind him?#

Rolling back the ball is always seen as the easy option but if the club tech doesn't allow the best to distinguish themselves rolling back the ball won't change that.

I think Westwood as spoken about this a few times if you want to find a better players thoughts on this.

Robo: Thanks for the new thread. I hope the Mods pin it. The other thread has gone off the rails a few times. (and admittedly, some of it is my fault)

My thoughts on BDC. Assuming he is not any "juice" I think what he is doing is great. Last fall, after the Shriners he said the next time we see he was going to be a changed man. and that was at the HWC and the Prez Cup in Early December. He had changed, But he was playing like Crap.

It started to come together BQ (before Quarantine). And AQ, it is really starting to mesh. He is hitting the ball incredibly far, and frankly pretty straight. His misses are the results of pulls and pushes, versus hooks and slices (at least it appears that way on the shot tracers)

I have always maintained that a ball rollback is going to help the longer hitter vs the shorter hitters, even if the rollback is proportional.

My thought is to INCREASE the Minimum spin rate of the ball. Make the ball the ball "Spinier". That will increase the shot dispersion of drives, making the crooked drive go even further off line. Typically a drive that misses the fairway by 15 ft is not nearly as penal as a drive 80 ft off line (in trees, in a penalty area or even OB). A spinier ball might be "flyer" prone as well, and wedges might be harder to control.

Spoiler:

And my other solution to low scores is to worsen conditions of the golf course. Make the greens bumpier. give the greens a texture, like it had been hit by hail storm. aerate the greens on Monday of tournament week. If you want to raise the scores, make the greens impossible to putt.

Watney, Fritelli, and McCarthy are in the Workday field next week

All have tested CV19+ in the last few weeks.

Rolling back the ball is a poor request. Stop having such boring courses that reward bombers would be a better solution and picking ones that reward course management is a better option.

Distance hasn't reached this point because of the ball. Duschambeau hasn't made the massive gains in 6 months because of a new ball, he's done it through changing technique, swing speed and optimising his clubs.

If you wind the ball back the longest hitters on tour are still going to be the longest hitters and the shortest hitters are going to be the shortest hitters.  Its like introducing universal basic income. The rich are still rich and the poor still poor. What's the point?
Mac's idea is interesting, but you'll just get clubs coming out that negate spin.

Super

As I said above I assume BDC is hitting it out the middle but for the sake of argument what if he isn't. I have heard a few fellow pros and commentators say he is just exploiting the current tech to the max by applying a long drive swing that requires the forgiveness of modem tech to keep it on the course.

With drivers that only rewarded sweet spot strikes his method might not work.

Just dial back the driver and leave everything else constant. Reduce the head size to 200cc

McLaren wrote:Super

As I said above I assume BDC is hitting it out the middle but for the sake of argument what if he isn't. I have heard a few fellow pros and commentators say he is just exploiting the current tech to the max by applying a long drive swing that requires the forgiveness of modem tech to keep it on the course.

With drivers that only rewarded sweet spot strikes his method might not work.

Isn't that the case for all longer drivers? Much is made of Botox and his swing speed, but statistically is an awful driver.

GPB wrote:Watney, Fritelli, and McCarthy are in the Workday field next week

All have tested CV19+ in the last few weeks.

Group them together then.

Cameras caught Bryson acting like a jerk on #7... Bryson then confronted the cameraman and was asked about it later...

Couldn't believe this when I read it. I love watching what Bryson is trying to do out there, but is this just a Bryson thing? Or do many of these guys really believe this? Privacy? What privacy? You're on national television dude... There ain't no privacy.

Here's Eamon Lynch's take on Bryson's comments... Harsh, but on point IMO...

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2020/07/04/eamon-lynch-bryson-dechambeau-berating-a-cameraman-reveals-his-true-brand/

pedro wrote:

GPB wrote:Watney, Fritelli, and McCarthy are in the Workday field next week

All have tested CV19+ in the last few weeks.

Group them together then.

The Leprosy grouping?

double post

Memorial Tournament has changed its mind re spectators

Reports are that the Ryder Cup has officially been postponed.

GPB wrote:Reports are that the Ryder Cup has officially been postponed.

Bummer, I was quite looking forward to a RC without the fans. The fan behavior at the RC has become ghastly.

Seems Koepka is having a little fun at Bryson's expense on twitter...some "roid" gifs and the such.

McLaren wrote:

GPB wrote:Reports are that the Ryder Cup has officially been postponed.

Bummer, I was quite looking forward to a RC without the fans. The fan behavior at the RC has become ghastly.

I wonder if the 4th rate Presidents Cup will also move a year as it would clearly be in the considerable shadow of the Ryder Cup .

a wumming we will go
a wumming we will go
Hi ho the Merry-Oh
a wumming we will go

GPB wrote:Reports are that the Ryder Cup has officially been postponed.

Wondering if that newly created opening on the ET schedule might give them a place to pencil the Irish Open or something back in?   PGA Tour and already had The Dominican Republic event scheduled opposite the Ryder Cup.

So I guess Ryder Cup and Presidents Cup are going back to the same odd even rotation they had before 9/11.  Now I wonder about the Solheim Cup? It had moved to the opposite years of the RC.  Now it is scheduled for 2 weeks before the RC in 2021.

Pause for the ET qualification until January 2021 when season events announced. HERE

https://twitter.com/PGATOURComms/status/1281000105148104704

Is it me, or does this seem just like a completely unnecessary risk for the Tour to be taking?

It's just you. Can't see the problem.

McLaren wrote:

GPB wrote:Reports are that the Ryder Cup has officially been postponed.

Bummer, I was quite looking forward to a RC without the fans. The fan behavior at the RC has become ghastly.

Can they not let some (physically distant) fans in? Maybe run a competition for places

GPB wrote:

pedro wrote:

GPB wrote:Watney, Fritelli, and McCarthy are in the Workday field next week

All have tested CV19+ in the last few weeks.

Group them together then.

The Leprosy grouping?

They were paired together.

It just would not be a PGATour event at Muirfield Village, without a weather delay.

Looks Colin Morikawa is having a bounce back week after he missed the cut in Connecticut.

Poulter had a good day. Needs to have 4 good rounds rather than the 2 1/2 - 3 he usually does.

I'm never wrong wrote:Poulter had a good day. Needs to have 4 good rounds rather than the 2 1/2 - 3 he usually does.

Very true, at least 90% of golfers have this frustrating habit of consistency.

Saw a thing on twitter, where a 4hc thinks he would beat an lpga player. People still don't quite grasp how good the women are.

beninho wrote:Saw a thing on twitter, where a 4hc thinks he would beat an lpga player. People still don't quite grasp how good the women are.

That's pretty funny.
I watched the Ladies Open at TOC a few years back, basically they played a mixture of (what were) the white and yellow tees. One thing which was noticeable was that they were by and large incredibly short hitters and their second shots were from areas of the course I'd never even really noticed,  so it's feasible that a 4HCP player could quite easily outdrive them, but the thing which is most obvious about the women's game is the level of consistency in their games. They don't seem to have the catastrophic mistakes that typify the game of a 4 handicap golfer.  Could a 4 handicapper beat an LPGA player? DOubt it, but they could probably beat a lot of the players on the womens European Tour, some of them are not impressive at all, and I know golfers who have beaten Scottish International players, so not too difficult.

Some of the women though have inexcusably bad short games. There's no reason for them to be bad at this aspect of the game.

https://www.lpga.com/statistics/driving/average-driving-distance

Looking at driving distance, I would say few 5hc would be outdriving an lpga player on a regular basis.

beninho wrote:https://www.lpga.com/statistics/driving/average-driving-distance

Looking at driving distance, I would say few 5hc would be outdriving an lpga player on a regular basis.

The average of that list being around 250, and having actually watched these players I can tell you that they aren't getting anywhere near that on a regular basis, at least not at sea level in British summer temperatures. Most on TOC were getting around 220-240 max and having to hit really long clubs into the greens where club golfers are flicking 9 irons and wedges in.

Go and watch these players at a course you actually know, you'll not be impressed by their distances at all, but you will be impressed by their technical consistency and straightness.

The average LPGA player would outdrive the average 4HC by a bunch... day in and day out... the end... period.

LPGA average was about 258 last year in all conditions... I'll guarantee you the average 4HC will not average 260. (Internet bragging driving distances don't count)  Oh they might hit "some" even longer but so will the LPGA player. Just one of the differences is the average LPGA player will be in play in the FW soooo much more than a 4HC who's losing distance in the rough into bunkers, clanging it off trees etc.  

Then look at actual data... R&A Distance report came out... the AVERAGE driving distance by players 6HC or less was 239 (+/- 3).  That's 240 range for ALL of them from -6 to + whatever...  I doubt the average 4HC is averaging that 239.  Here's REAL data.  https://golf.com/news/how-far-amateur-golfers-driving-golf-ball-2019/

As for scoring...
And let's not forget... an average 4HC isn't shooting 76 very often... Their actual scoring average is more like 81-82 because all rounds aren't in the calculation.  According to the report linked below... the avg score for 1-5hc range golfers is 79.8... The 4hc is at the higher end.  Whereas when we see an LPGA scoring average thats ALL rounds..  The REAL AVERAGE for an LPGA player last year was 71.45, on TOURNAMENT PREPARED venues.  You can add a couple more strokes a round onto the 4hc just because of the setups.

Bottom line... any discussion that a 4hc  is anywhere in the same stratosphere of an "average" LPGA player in ANY phase of the game is laughable to the extreme ... Driving, FW's hit, GIR, Putting, Short Game...  ZERO, ZIP, NADA...  But sure, it's golf... so probably some 4HC on his BEST day might beat an LPGA player on her worst day, but that's not what we're talking about...  

And about the LET... I see their scores when they DO get a chance to compete against LPGA'ers. I agree they're not as good OVERALL... maybe as much as 1.5 strokes behind on average... so from the same tees they only beat the 4HC men by 8-10 every day instead of 10-12...  The difference is still ENORMOUS.

Here's a report on actual stats on players of different handicap ranges... and don't forget... the LPGA players aren't represented on these charts... they're more like +6s.  
https://mygolfspy.com/2016-report-overall-golfer-performance-by-handicap/

Not long before Morikawa will break into the top 10..

pedro wrote:Not long before Morikawa will break into the top 10..

That was a really incredible final round and playoff - some of his shots into the par threes during the 18 were absolutely ludicrous, and the two putts both sunk on the first playoff, unbelievable!

Looks like NBS is also on the "missing" list now. Who is going to sort out the sticky topics now?

Davie wrote:Looks like NBS is also on the "missing" list now. Who is going to sort out the sticky topics now?

That would be a shame as well, does make you think, has our debating become stale? Is the content just rubbish, Are there too many insults being thrown around? Basic fact of life though is that sometimes, things just move on.

I'm still in touch with 2 or 3 leavers, Noshankingtonite and London Johnno are both on my FB as is DoontheWatter's daughter. D4S I haven't seen for about 3 years now but will see him at Saunton the weekend after next.

Maybe he's just on holiday.

Jas- I think most of us are master debators, but things can get stale and topics recycled over time. I defected to another forum for a couple years, now that I'm back here its disappointing how quiet the place is.

JAS wrote: D4S I haven't seen for about 3 years now but will see him at Saunton the weekend after next.

i used to keep in touch with D4S for a while as he used to live near me but not recently. However a "real life" friend of mine is a good friend of him - so I know he's still around

super_realist wrote:Maybe he's just on holiday.

Holiday? what's that?

Shane Lowry in one of the featured groups at Memorial

https://twitter.com/RyanLavnerGC/status/1282782574348251136

GPB wrote:Shane Lowry in one of the featured groups at Memorial

https://twitter.com/RyanLavnerGC/status/1282782574348251136

What did he do to deserve that???

pedro wrote:

GPB wrote:Shane Lowry in one of the featured groups at Memorial

https://twitter.com/RyanLavnerGC/status/1282782574348251136

What did he do to deserve that???

They gave the list of 11 feature group players to an intern... Told her to pick anybody but Lowry for the 12th... She misunderstood...

GPB wrote:Shane Lowry in one of the featured groups at Memorial

https://twitter.com/RyanLavnerGC/status/1282782574348251136

About bloody time!

incontinentia wrote:

GPB wrote:Shane Lowry in one of the featured groups at Memorial

https://twitter.com/RyanLavnerGC/status/1282782574348251136

About bloody time!

He is the defending champ.

Well at least he was suppose to be the defending champ this week.

incontinentia wrote:

GPB wrote:Shane Lowry in one of the featured groups at Memorial

https://twitter.com/RyanLavnerGC/status/1282782574348251136

About bloody time!

Must be a poor field.

super_realist wrote:

incontinentia wrote:

GPB wrote:Shane Lowry in one of the featured groups at Memorial

https://twitter.com/RyanLavnerGC/status/1282782574348251136

About bloody time!

Must be a poor field.

Prince Drac saying that it is the strongest PGA Tour event ever; strength of field > 800; stronger than any playoff event and stronger than the last 8 Masters. https://twitter.com/VC606/status/1282749661137326081

There you go super, strongest field ever and Lowry is headlining it