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The summer of cricket 2020

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 04 Aug 2020, 3:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

Great ton from Morgan. Came in at 44/3 - now victory looks assured for England after this partnership.

(Spoiler: It wasn't.)


Last edited by Duty281 on Wed 05 Aug 2020, 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 9:21 am

Away all morning. Get me some wickets, folks! Take 3 and things will be looking much better.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 9:32 am

Bess consistently bowls at under 3 an over which is his current role in the team with any wickets he takes being a bonus, the pitches over the summer haven't been that conducive to spin and largely the seamers have got the job done, the third innings of this match could be pivotal for him where it looks like to start spinning big. Last year in that first ashes test where Nathan Lyon caused all sorts of problems, Ali was going at 4.5 an over and ultimately his inability to bowl consistently cost England the game, with Anderson injured he needed to step up but was neither a wicket taking threat or containing the score. Bess was pretty expensive for him yesterday going at 3.3 which sums up the difference.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 10:00 am

Soul Requiem wrote:Bess consistently bowls at under 3 an over which is his current role in the team with any wickets he takes being a bonus, the pitches over the summer haven't been that conducive to spin and largely the seamers have got the job done, the third innings of this match could be pivotal for him where it looks like to start spinning big. Last year in that first ashes test where Nathan Lyon caused all sorts of problems, Ali was going at 4.5 an over and ultimately his inability to bowl consistently cost England the game, with Anderson injured he needed to step up but was neither a wicket taking threat or containing the score. Bess was pretty expensive for him yesterday going at 3.3 which sums up the difference.

Look Im no Mo fan but you are cherry picking a bad example. That test was a car crash all round for England and Mo was put under a lot of pressure with Anderson getting injured and he did still take 3 wickets, whilst Root/Denly went 129/0 at a worse economy... so a bit rum to blame him for the defeat.
He has always been expensive though. Noones going to deny that. But what I was pointing was his record against Asian teams in England, hes consistently run through them by drawing them into high risk shots. Bess bowls placidly, which is fine when England want to restrict the scoring and tie players down and where they dont have the range of shots to score easily. The problem in this sort of situation is you have players who are comfortable against that kind of bowling, and England need to get wickets. It may be "team orders" but he bowls flat and "fast" almost all the time. When he did switch bowl a more attacking style in SA he got wickets, he can do it. It would just be nice to see him give it a go more, he is capable.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 10:08 am

Car crash all round? England were still in the lead when they had Australia three down in the second innings at which point they needed their premier spinner to step up and do something on a pitch offering a lot of help.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:00 am

Soul Requiem wrote: Car crash all round? England were still in the lead when they had Australia three down in the second innings at which point they needed their premier spinner to step up and do something on a pitch offering a lot of help.

They couldve done with Bess stepping up fourth innings on a pichh that a part time spinner had taken wickets on against one of the worst batting sides to come here in recent decades but hey.

Really you're going down a rabbit hole here to argue a point thats not the point anyway. Bess could do more to be an attacking threat, sometimes the game requires that, especially when the pitch isn't doing much.


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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:02 am

Important that England get a wicket in the opening half hour before these two get set. Lights on, plenty of cloud, bit of swing, so England should be on the attack this morning.

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Post by GSC on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:04 am

Azam gone early, just what England needed
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:04 am

And there it is. Jimmy gets the big 'un. Just a little bit of movement does the trick.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:04 am

Anderson pitches the ball up and gets a wicket, what a surprise. Not sure why they were bowling so short yesterday but it's a common recurrence in recent years.

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Post by GSC on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:05 am

And suddenly as bad as England were after lunch yesterday, they're right back in the game
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Post by alfie on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:06 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:While Pakistan have undoubtedly had a good day, I wouldn't put them in an insurmountable position yet. A few wickets in the first hour tomorrow, and suddenly you have that fragile looking lower order exposed to the new ball just after lunch, and it could be 250 all out.

Of course, Azam/Masood see off the first hour, then England are in a spot of bother!

Big morning ahead - going to need Anderson to bowl much better than he did today.

Think he was listening to you , Olly Smile

Good start to day two.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:08 am

Bad review. England got carried away.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:09 am

Gah thought that was a good review - didn't think he'd hit that!
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:10 am

What on earth are Warne and Holding on about
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Post by alfie on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:12 am

Think third umpire was wrong there... Looked to be clear air between bat and pad. Shan might have been lucky ?

Good fifty though clap

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Post by GSC on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:12 am

Not a bad review, close enough and game situation makes the risk worth it imo
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Post by alfie on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:23 am

Now I see goose has stated he wants the last word on Root's tactics from last night ...can't allow that Smile

Fact is the six overs cost very little and did produce a serious chance. That it might have led to a rush of runs is a bit of a stretch : surely if they hadn't gone off when they did , all Root had to do was call back Archer and Broad and off they would have gone...

I suspect goose is no fan of Bess.

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Post by Pal Joey on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:27 am

Quite an impressive coaching staff Pakistan have there. Looks like they mean business.
Missing a decent team psychologist though... given England have Trott. Whistle
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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:32 am

alfie wrote:Think third umpire was wrong there... Looked to be clear air between bat and pad.  Shan might have been lucky ?

Good fifty though  clap

I think you're right there Alfie, doesn't appear to have been any bat to me.

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Post by alfie on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:37 am

Broad does for Azad ...there's the two wickets.

One more before lunch needed I think. I'm off for a bit so see what you fellows can do to wreck the innings , ok ?

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Post by GSC on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:38 am

Pakistan now wobbling
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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:38 am

Suddenly looks a different test this morning, very importnat wickets in the gloom.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:41 am

Masood's got a bit of the Van Der Dussen's about him in terms of luck hasn't he
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:43 am

Excellent start by England this morning. One more wicket and they'll bring Shadab Khan to the crease - a player with a mere 27 FC average. There really isn't much batting left.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:51 am

Bit of luck for Rizwan there - looked plumb, but he'd nicked it. Broad and Anderson all over them here
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:54 am

Yeah didn't think Rizwan had hit that one initially, but Ultraedge reprieved him.

Just 11 runs in 11 overs this morning. Much better control from England who were far too wayward yesterday.

Time for Woakes. Think he'll prosper in these conditions...beats Rizwan's rubbish swipe first up.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 11:59 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Masood's got a bit of the Van Der Dussen's about him in terms of luck hasn't he

He's definitely going to get some low scores, his technique doesn't look up to the moving ball but he's done well to stick in there.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 12:08 pm

Rizwan isn't good enough to nick these ones from Woakes/Jimmy
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Post by king_carlos on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 12:18 pm

One more before the new ball and England will be right on top here.

Pakistan have a long tail but then again so do England.

We know the seamers on both side will bowl well. We know that if the seamers are bowling well both batting lineups are heavily reliant on a couple of players. I get the feeling that how the Pakistan spinners bowl and how the England batsman play them could decide this game.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 12:26 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Rizwan isn't good enough to nick these ones from Woakes/Jimmy

Joining Shan Masood in the good fortune stakes.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 12:39 pm

A minor miracle that Rizwan survived 40 balls there
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 12:41 pm

Rizwan's tortured stay is at an end.

Tortured morning for Pakistan - 37/3 in 100 minutes.

England should be looking to dismiss Pakistan for under 260 from this position.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 12:41 pm

Sir Chris Woakes

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 12:43 pm

With all four bowlers doing well so far, it's going to be a tricky decision to know who to drop when Stokes can bowl again; wouldn't want to see Buttler batting at 6 too often (hopefully he won't be batting anywhere in the order after this test) and the tail is too long so Crawley coming back in at three is somewhat of a must.

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Post by GSC on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 12:50 pm

Pakistan are a bit at risk of falling into England's trap, batting time but not really going anywhere.

If it's Bess or Archer to make way for Crawley, it's still Bess to go for me
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:01 pm

If Stokes is fit to bowl for the next test, I think Anderson will be rested so Crawley would come in for him.

Anyway, that was comfortably England's session. 48/3. New ball five overs after lunch should clean up the Pakistani lower order for little damage. If Pakistan get 275+ from this position, England will be very disappointed.

Already a bit concerned about the footmarks on the wicket for Yasir Shah to aim at!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:02 pm

Brilliant session for England - 48 runs, 3 wickets. Pakistan have gone nowhere, five overs away from the new ball with five wickets left to get...if they can nab one more out before that new ball, 250 all out could very much be on.
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Post by eirebilly on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:14 pm

I have missed a bit of the chat on here so i will ask the question (don't shoot me if it has been done to death already) but is Butler really the best option for WK/B in the test team? ODI/T20 not in question.
I am wondering if it is time to give Foakes a go, an excellent keeper who is also handy with the bat. He seems more suited to test cricket than Butler is.
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Post by GSC on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:19 pm

I don't really have an issue with Buttler at 7, he's too high with this extended bowling lineup
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:44 pm

eirebilly wrote:I have missed a bit of the chat on here so i will ask the question (don't shoot me if it has been done to death already) but is Butler really the best option for WK/B in the test team? ODI/T20 not in question.
I am wondering if it is time to give Foakes a go, an excellent keeper who is also handy with the bat. He seems more suited to test cricket than Butler is.

I think the general consensus on here, and maybe elsewhere, is for Foakes over Buttler. I've certainly never been a fan of Buttler in the test line-up, and I don't he's justified the continual faith in him by the selectors.

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Post by alfie on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:48 pm

Pretty good session for England , eh ? Not getting too carried away yet though. Shan still there ; and even some of these rabbits can get a few now and again (Yasir had one useful hand in Australia , I recall)

Joe a Root trying his hand before the new ball. Hope they don't give away too many runs in this patch of play...Bess a bit off this over...

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:49 pm

GSC wrote:I don't really have an issue with Buttler at 7, he's too high with this extended bowling lineup

Element of being spoiled by England usually batting ridiculously deep. Theres few teams keepers who are better bats, and england are rare in having two genuine bowlers who average 30 plus in their side. Even the three non batters are better than a lot of tail enders out there, west indies turned up with players with single figure avergaes.
Its not ideal but thinking back a year ago england were struggling to make a top 6 of players who could avergae 30.

Whats the other option, its unrealistic to expect Foakes to average much more than Buttler does.


PS is someone going to say bess is bowlimg beautiful Whistle

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:52 pm

tripe again after lunch, gifted easy runs again

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Post by alfie on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:55 pm

Duty281 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I have missed a bit of the chat on here so i will ask the question (don't shoot me if it has been done to death already) but is Butler really the best option for WK/B in the test team? ODI/T20 not in question.
I am wondering if it is time to give Foakes a go, an excellent keeper who is also handy with the bat. He seems more suited to test cricket than Butler is.

I think the general consensus on here, and maybe elsewhere, is for Foakes over Buttler. I've certainly never been a fan of Buttler in the test line-up, and I don't he's justified the continual faith in him by the selectors.

Can't see them picking Foakes while Ed Smith is in charge. He's hung his hat on having Buttler in the team one way or another ...and as he's never going to bat in the top four the keeping spot is about the only one available. Unless they're going to force Pope up to three . Which would be premature , I think.

If Jos doesn't have a good series with the bat it might give Ed some concern...

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:55 pm

This is rubbish tactics. Root and Bess for five overs before the new ball, allowing the two Pakistani batsmen an easy period to settle in before said new ball arrives. Should have been Archer and Woakes for a little burst, before Anderson and Broad take the new ball.

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Post by alfie on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:59 pm

compelling and rich wrote:tripe again after lunch, gifted easy runs again

Must be feeding them the wrong stuff...

Yesterday the seamers , today the spinners . Possibly not a great idea to have spin both ends after lunch. Rather showed a lack of intent . Could have had one of the pace men bowl Root's overs. Also Bess seemed to lose his line for some reason.

27 runs from five overs. Bit careless.

Ah well...new ball now.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:59 pm

27 runs added in that five over burst, over 50% of the total made in the entire morning session. Very generous of Root, though Christmas is still four months away.

Time for the new ball.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 2:10 pm

alfie wrote:  Possibly not a great idea to have spin both ends

Cough last word cough

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Post by alfie on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 2:14 pm

Shadab has been busy. Seemed to enjoy the spin overs...but he's continued to look for singles against the new ball. Good batting. Shan has been excellent but was getting a bit bogged down ; now they're running well together.

This remains a good pitch. If England can break these two up with this new rock they can still aim to keep Pakistan under par...but they aren't going to give their wickets away. Fifty stand very briskly clap

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 2:15 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
alfie wrote:  Possibly not a great idea to have spin both ends

Cough last word cough

Not sure that applies to a different session at a different time of day especially when it should have resulted in a wicket yesterday.

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