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England: 8 Nations

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 8:28 am

First topic message reminder :

Not sure if theres already a thread kicking about but seeing as the prem is back I thought it may be nice to argue over the numerous players impressing.

As ever it seems to be scrum half, flankers, centre and full back are where there are chances for people to force their way in. Can't say I've ever been able to call what Eddie Jones thinks but Willis and hill must be tempting him to widen the player pool. A number of scrum halfs have started well also but has the time come for Spencer or Robson? Thought Maunder was very good too and Mitchell showed great flashes.

I'm at a bit of a loss for full back based on the games last week. Furbank looked anonymous and let's face it Daly is a Jones favourite.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:24 pm

I think they've handed Ireland the title though. Unless they can get 3-4 tries in this last 10 minutes, I think Ireland will get the job done.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:25 pm

Job done. Now let's forget this game ever happened!

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:25 pm

Brendan wrote:So are England terrible or are Italy maybe not as bad as we thought. Like Scotland 5 years ago if only they could get a try or two with all the possession in key areas.

Game ahead. Training is good but games are better.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:25 pm

hugehandoff wrote:Eddie tactics are also shocking....boring boring game plan

They literally got you to a RWC final. Perspective ffs...

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Post by Heaf on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:26 pm

And Farrell kicks the ball away again ...

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:27 pm

No mistake, Italy have played decently. Saying England have been rubbish does a disservice to the Italians.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:27 pm

Heaf wrote:And Farrell kicks the ball away again ...

As I said, perspective...

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Post by TightHEAD on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:29 pm

Get Farrell off.

Gartlnd has a headache to pick a lions 10.

Or he could go for Simmons. Best 10 in England
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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:31 pm

Ireland should be thanking Italy for this performance tonight. They've done wonders for them. Like in 2013, England can't get the points v Italy that would make the title win all but guaranteed.

First France throwing away the championship, now possibly England. About right for a tournament that took 8 months to complete...

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:31 pm

Reasonable second half has put us in with a shout but I cant help but feel Dupont will show us how it's done. Fingers crossed.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:32 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:Ireland should be thanking Italy for this performance tonight. They've done wonders for them. Like in 2013, England can't get the points v Italy that would make the title win all but guaranteed.

First France throwing away the championship, now possibly England. About right for a tournament that took 8 months to complete...

Or it is hard to win 4 games and to pick up points.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:33 pm

The points difference stands at 9, so Ireland need to win by 10. Even just one more score by England changes the picture in their favour quite considerably.

And they botch the lintout. Wow...

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Post by Scottrf on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:34 pm

Looks like we might be one try short of doing all we can. A lot of Ireland 4 point wins will win it now.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:35 pm

Brendan wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Ireland should be thanking Italy for this performance tonight. They've done wonders for them. Like in 2013, England can't get the points v Italy that would make the title win all but guaranteed.

First France throwing away the championship, now possibly England. About right for a tournament that took 8 months to complete...

Or it is hard to win 4 games and to pick up points.

Of course it's hard but I think you're making a logical fallacy. The individual underperformances mentioned have nothing to do with previous performances. France simply bottled it and looked mentally weak, England here are rusty because of lockdown. Nothing really to do with the tournament structure itself i.e. winning 4 games.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:36 pm

EJ will be tearing his boys a new one. Penalty count is atrocious in this second half.

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Post by Heaf on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:41 pm

I thought kicking the ball out of the ruck was a penalty now .... and then of course the TMO chimes in again against England

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:42 pm

Good win in the end. Sets up the conclusion nicely. Don't fancy Ireland to beat the French, but if they can and by the 7 points plus required, they'll be worthy of the title.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:43 pm

Advantage Ireland.

Seems I got the point difference wrong as well. It's a 6 point lead England have.

Ireland can win 0-7 and take the title. Massive, massive opportunity missed by England here. Even just a 15-20 point lead in the points table would force Ireland to play.

At least it makes things interesting. Not easy for Ireland to defeat a French team that has looked the real deal apart from up in Scotland, but they have to be favourites to take the title as things stand.

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Post by lostinwales on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:46 pm

Stuart had a more than useful cameo at the end there.

Looks like Italy have found some useful anglo italians

And does it make my posts smarter if I 'like' them myself?

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:49 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:Advantage Ireland.

Seems I got the point difference wrong as well. It's a 6 point lead England have.

Ireland can win 0-7 and take the title. Massive, massive opportunity missed by England here. Even just a 15-20 point lead in the points table would force Ireland to play.

At least it makes things interesting. Not easy for Ireland to defeat a French team that has looked the real deal apart from up in Scotland, but they have to be favourites to take the title as things stand.

Well, no, they wouldn't be because they're not favourites to beat France, and certainly not by the 7 point plus margin required.

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Post by Yoda on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:49 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:EJ will be tearing his boys a new one. Penalty count is atrocious in this second half.

Only because the tmo and ref were trying to keep the score down. So blind to Italy collapsing the maul, High tackles and kicking the ball out of the rucks.
Despite youngs two tries he's sooooo slooooow. Get the effing ball moving quickly man. That's also the worst game I've seen farrell play. I'm glad no fans paid to watch that junk.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:51 pm

Bot better than I thought. France need to win by 32. Fingers more crossed.

Unless France do their normal and gmthump someone after 10 mins.

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Post by Heaf on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:51 pm

Think the TMO is hoping for a French win and wanted to make it easier for France's points difference.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:52 pm

lostinwales wrote:Stuart had a more than useful cameo at the end there.

Looks like Italy have found some useful anglo italians

And does it make my posts smarter if I 'like' them myself?

Rent free.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:53 pm

Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Advantage Ireland.

Seems I got the point difference wrong as well. It's a 6 point lead England have.

Ireland can win 0-7 and take the title. Massive, massive opportunity missed by England here. Even just a 15-20 point lead in the points table would force Ireland to play.

At least it makes things interesting. Not easy for Ireland to defeat a French team that has looked the real deal apart from up in Scotland, but they have to be favourites to take the title as things stand.

Well, no, they wouldn't be because they're not favourites to beat France, and certainly not by the 7 point plus margin required.

"Well, erm, actually..."

It's an opinion, buddy. There is no 'no' to that. I reject your statement.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:55 pm

Yoda wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:EJ will be tearing his boys a new one. Penalty count is atrocious in this second half.

Only because the tmo and ref were trying to keep the score down. So blind to Italy collapsing the maul, High tackles and kicking the ball out of the rucks.
Despite youngs two tries he's sooooo slooooow. Get the effing ball moving quickly man. That's also the worst game I've seen farrell play. I'm glad no fans paid to watch that junk.

That's what you get with a French ref tbh. The issue was in the England pack though. Not enough ferocity, not enough focus, too many penalties. Itoje showing his naff side today. Every English forward had poor contributions. Italy outplayed them in parts.

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Post by Yoda on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:59 pm

Yep Italy forwards we're for once the hard nuggetty unit they used to be. Other than that they didn't really do much as their try came from sinkler(who was poor apart from scrummaging) dropping a simple pass.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:04 pm

Well at least one of the Farrels should be happy. If not then the French are worthy winners.

Scots have to be looking back wondering what could have been. Ireland and England loses were marginal and disappointing.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:08 pm

That game with Scotland was an absolute lottery.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:26 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Advantage Ireland.

Seems I got the point difference wrong as well. It's a 6 point lead England have.

Ireland can win 0-7 and take the title. Massive, massive opportunity missed by England here. Even just a 15-20 point lead in the points table would force Ireland to play.

At least it makes things interesting. Not easy for Ireland to defeat a French team that has looked the real deal apart from up in Scotland, but they have to be favourites to take the title as things stand.

Well, no, they wouldn't be because they're not favourites to beat France, and certainly not by the 7 point plus margin required.

"Well, erm, actually..."

It's an opinion, buddy. There is no 'no' to that. I reject your statement.

Get your money on, then, if you make Ireland favourites. PaddyPower making them 7/2 to win the title (about 22% probability).

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:29 pm

Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Advantage Ireland.

Seems I got the point difference wrong as well. It's a 6 point lead England have.

Ireland can win 0-7 and take the title. Massive, massive opportunity missed by England here. Even just a 15-20 point lead in the points table would force Ireland to play.

At least it makes things interesting. Not easy for Ireland to defeat a French team that has looked the real deal apart from up in Scotland, but they have to be favourites to take the title as things stand.

Well, no, they wouldn't be because they're not favourites to beat France, and certainly not by the 7 point plus margin required.

"Well, erm, actually..."

It's an opinion, buddy. There is no 'no' to that. I reject your statement.

Get your money on, then, if you make Ireland favourites. PaddyPower making them 7/2 to win the title (about 22% probability).

I don't gamble. Betting is a losing game.

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Post by hawalsh on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:31 pm

France don't have a realistic chance of winning the championship now, so you'd assume their minds will be more focused on the straight win against Ireland rather than a more agressive points mindset. Wouldn't bet against Ireland winning by seven, but the likely French approach will make it tougher.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:33 pm

This is the ideal scenario for the neutral tbh. The away team has advantage that minimises home advantage, but the poinst difference isn't insurmountable. It could be level on the clock with 80 minutes and still have both the game and the title up for grabs. Great stuff.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:34 pm

Ben Youngs was man of the match, btw.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:35 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Advantage Ireland.

Seems I got the point difference wrong as well. It's a 6 point lead England have.

Ireland can win 0-7 and take the title. Massive, massive opportunity missed by England here. Even just a 15-20 point lead in the points table would force Ireland to play.

At least it makes things interesting. Not easy for Ireland to defeat a French team that has looked the real deal apart from up in Scotland, but they have to be favourites to take the title as things stand.

Well, no, they wouldn't be because they're not favourites to beat France, and certainly not by the 7 point plus margin required.

"Well, erm, actually..."

It's an opinion, buddy. There is no 'no' to that. I reject your statement.

Get your money on, then, if you make Ireland favourites. PaddyPower making them 7/2 to win the title (about 22% probability).

I don't gamble. Betting is a losing game.

Probably is where you're concerned.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:37 pm

Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Advantage Ireland.

Seems I got the point difference wrong as well. It's a 6 point lead England have.

Ireland can win 0-7 and take the title. Massive, massive opportunity missed by England here. Even just a 15-20 point lead in the points table would force Ireland to play.

At least it makes things interesting. Not easy for Ireland to defeat a French team that has looked the real deal apart from up in Scotland, but they have to be favourites to take the title as things stand.

Well, no, they wouldn't be because they're not favourites to beat France, and certainly not by the 7 point plus margin required.

"Well, erm, actually..."

It's an opinion, buddy. There is no 'no' to that. I reject your statement.

Get your money on, then, if you make Ireland favourites. PaddyPower making them 7/2 to win the title (about 22% probability).

I don't gamble. Betting is a losing game.

Probably is where you're concerned.

Odd comment. Go and talk to anyone who struggles with gambling addiction and make the same 'joke'. Pathetic.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:57 pm

You'll probably have seen Geordie but elite sport continues. Which means after englands performance ita still undecided.

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Post by lostinwales on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 8:04 pm

Back to the rugby. What a player Itoje is

Stats for that match are awful.

JJ was all but anonynmous. Stats currently say he passed once and ran 4 times for 1m total. The ball never seemed to get to him.

Furbank concerns me, maybe because we have been used to full backs who have something about them, and he doesn't seem to have anything about him. Maybe it just was not the game for him.

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Post by Exiledinborders on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 8:09 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Advantage Ireland.

Seems I got the point difference wrong as well. It's a 6 point lead England have.

Ireland can win 0-7 and take the title. Massive, massive opportunity missed by England here. Even just a 15-20 point lead in the points table would force Ireland to play.

At least it makes things interesting. Not easy for Ireland to defeat a French team that has looked the real deal apart from up in Scotland, but they have to be favourites to take the title as things stand.

Well, no, they wouldn't be because they're not favourites to beat France, and certainly not by the 7 point plus margin required.

"Well, erm, actually..."

It's an opinion, buddy. There is no 'no' to that. I reject your statement.

Get your money on, then, if you make Ireland favourites. PaddyPower making them 7/2 to win the title (about 22% probability).

I don't gamble. Betting is a losing game.
I don't bet either but the betting odds do show Ireland are not favourites. France are quite strong favourites to win. Who will win is as you write a matter of opinion. Who are favourites is not a matter of opinion, France are favourites.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 8:16 pm

Ah well there we go the French already imploding.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 8:21 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Advantage Ireland.

Seems I got the point difference wrong as well. It's a 6 point lead England have.

Ireland can win 0-7 and take the title. Massive, massive opportunity missed by England here. Even just a 15-20 point lead in the points table would force Ireland to play.

At least it makes things interesting. Not easy for Ireland to defeat a French team that has looked the real deal apart from up in Scotland, but they have to be favourites to take the title as things stand.

Well, no, they wouldn't be because they're not favourites to beat France, and certainly not by the 7 point plus margin required.

"Well, erm, actually..."

It's an opinion, buddy. There is no 'no' to that. I reject your statement.

Get your money on, then, if you make Ireland favourites. PaddyPower making them 7/2 to win the title (about 22% probability).

I don't gamble. Betting is a losing game.
I don't bet either but the betting odds do show Ireland are not favourites. France are quite strong favourites to win.  Who will win is as you write a matter of opinion. Who are favourites is not a matter of opinion, France are favourites.  

Bookies are not the sole arbiters of favouritism. They set odds based on highly complex mathematics in order to maximise their earnings.

Odds are not a marker of prediction for the scoreline or result - they are an assessment based on earning money from gamblers.

Sorry....REJECTED!

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:54 pm

Well that looks like its englands title which is great. The fact that youngs actually got a motm vs Dupont performance shows us where we have to improve. Surely over the next few games we need to see significant game time for Robson and Mitchell.

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Post by Scottrf on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:55 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well that looks like its englands title which is great. The fact that youngs actually got a motm vs Dupont performance shows us where we have to improve. Surely over the next few games we need to see significant game time for Robson and Mitchell.

Maybe if Eddie gets replaced.

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Post by rugby racing and beer on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:57 pm

You can't just point at Dupont and say 'why don't we have that'. He's a once in a generation player.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:59 pm

CHAMPIONS Winner


WELL PLAYED ENGLAND.

IN EDDIE WE TRUST
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Post by Duty281 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:59 pm

Well done England, champions again. Third time in five years. clap

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:09 pm

Well done england Sad

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Post by lostinwales on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:13 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well that looks like its englands title which is great. The fact that youngs actually got a motm vs Dupont performance shows us where we have to improve. Surely over the next few games we need to see significant game time for Robson and Mitchell.

Dupont is special. We can't play that way but we can play. Eddie has his own way, our team have bought into it, and it got us very close to the RWC, including an annihaltion of NZ.

Today was a funny game. We have had so many really bad games against Italy. You always think its going to be a slaughter, but the days of Balshaw running through them for fun are long gone. Instead they often turn into ugly arm wrestles. But we have never lost to them and have, to my knowledge, never even looked like we would. England was also very rusty. When things clicked they looked lethal, but there were mistakes and Italy made the most of them.

You just cannot assess England against Italy on a day like this against France/Ireland. England was better over the whole tournament. End of

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:18 pm

lostinwales wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Well that looks like its englands title which is great. The fact that youngs actually got a motm vs Dupont performance shows us where we have to improve. Surely over the next few games we need to see significant game time for Robson and Mitchell.

Dupont is special. We can't play that way but we can play. Eddie has his own way, our team have bought into it, and it got us very close to the RWC, including an annihaltion of NZ.

Today was a funny game. We have had so many really bad games against Italy. You always think its going to be a slaughter, but the days of Balshaw running through them for fun are long gone. Instead they often turn into ugly arm wrestles. But we have never lost to them and have, to my knowledge, never even looked like we would. England was also very rusty. When things clicked they looked lethal, but there were mistakes and Italy made the most of them.

You just cannot assess England against Italy on a day like this against France/Ireland. England was better over the whole tournament. End of

I get that completely. I'm not basing my view on Youngs solely on this game but I find it odd that a motm is given to him for the 2 good pieces of play vs the slowness of the majority. If hes being dictated by Jones to be that slow I'd be surprised but then again I'm surprised that that level of performance is deemed good.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:20 pm

England best team in the world so long as you're allowed to lose one game to win the cup

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