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Teofimo Lopez - A star is born

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 18 Oct - 17:16

Great stuff...Scored it 115-113...

Number 1 fighter in the sport doesn't need to be a Non English speaking Eastern type, though I respect Lomo...Like with the Klits it doesn't help Boxing.

Back to the fight Lomachenko was too wary early and took too long to get going.  Not sure why he is storming out of the ring..

Lost the 12th by a mile....Had him losing at least 4 out of the first 6 comfortably and there were some close rounds after that.

Bit like Frampton v Quigg he let him take early rounds and never pulled it back.

In other news Joe Laws was exposed by a rookie fighter.. Couldn't take it to the body and had run out of ideas by the end of the first.

No point going back to the drawing board Boxing isn't for him a bit like Shannon Courtney another Hearn invention.  Big mouths and good looks only get you so far.

Not sure what to make of Lewis Ritson looks great one minute ordinary the next.  Lucky lad last night.

One away fighter last night got robbed after a cut stopped a fight.  Forgot his name...One judge scored it 2-6 shameful.

Note.. I see the Judge Terry O'Connor responsible for the above card had Ritson 6 ahead. Also pictured playing with his phone during the fight.

Not good enough.

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Post by The Beast on Sun 18 Oct - 20:21

I think your assessment of the Lopez/Loma is on point, taking nothing away from Lopez who fought a very intelligent fight but I really do not know what Loma was thinking about. Not sure where you are going with the language issue, personally I could not care less.

I like Ritson but seems to be struggling having moved up in weight and wow for me that was a shocking decision. Perhaps he has "found his level", talk of a match with Regis Prograis appears fanciful based on last night.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 18 Oct - 20:55

Agree with Ritson its hard to see his level...Perhaps with Ritson styles make fights...Starling struggled with fighters that wouldn"t take the lead and Ritson v Cardle and other similar fights did remind me a little of Marlon at his best in fairness to him.

Could be a World champion or could be another John Murray...Jury still out.

One thing I do know the 9-3 Judge needs banning.

As for Lomo enough in the fight to suggest he could win a rematch...Just thought Lopez like Frampton did enough to win rounds without engaging and taking risks.

Fought a smarter fight....Rematch is pick em.

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Post by The Beast on Sun 18 Oct - 22:10

Just seen the Terry O'Connor picture. No question that needs to be investigated, I can only hope for everyone's sake that its doctored or there was some genuinely exceptional emergency situation (let's not judge too soon) but either way 117 - 111 (Ritson) is difficult to fathom.

Ritson, you may well be proved right, he is to me is a seek and destroy puncher who might always struggle with "movers". Tricky I am sure as it may be that he has not "brought his power" from the weight below but I hope they don't change his style too much to avoid becoming a messy hybrid and not particularly effective or entertaining as either a puncher/boxer.

Admittedly I did not see much of Starling other than the pummelling of Lloyd Honeyghan who was made to measure and face may be understandably still sore to this day.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 18 Oct - 22:29

Surprised if the picture is doctored and he shouldn't have his phone with him anyway.

I didn't see Raheem Sterling with one in his pocket against Arsenal..Any emergency big enough to be brought to his attention and take his eyes of the fight and he should be replaced immediately.

Crawford v Brook in November...I give Brook half a chance because he outboxed Spence and Porter...Yes it's a small chance and Crawford is very talented but I thought if his eye had held up he'd have beaten Errol and Brook is the naturally bigger guy.

Make Crawford a good favourite though...ko 9

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Post by 88Chris05 on Mon 19 Oct - 0:21

I scored Lopez-Lomachenko the same as you, Truss, 115-113. The cards were absurdly wide. 116-112 I could maybe see, but 117-111 and 119-109!? Horrendous stuff. Fair enough, the right guy had his hand raised in the end but that shouldn't absolve Lederman and Weisfeld from taking a kicking for returning those two monstrosities.

Also agree with you that I could see Lomachenko potentially winning a rematch, but I wasn't particularly shocked at him losing this one. I think there's a general consensus that he hasn't looked as good at Lightweight as he did at Feather and Super-Feather, and I certainly wouldn't recommend him going any higher than 135 lb.

This fight is another example of why, excellent though he is, I've never quite rowed along with the crowd who have put him at pound for pound number one. In terms of having a complete professional skillset and all-round game, I still prefer all of Crawford, Usyk and Inoue to him - hell, maybe even a guy like Prograis. He waited way too long to start switching his tactics last night when it was clear that his plan of fencing and countering at range wasn't working. I think those guys above would have switched it up earlier, been willing to get and stay close to throw body shots (he barely threw one all fight) after three or four rounds rather than seven, and would have realised that Lopez's power wasn't sufficient to make him so gun shy as he was.

When Lomachenko finally stepped it up starting in round eight, he looked the better fighter for the remainder (aside from the twelfth, which Lopez definitely pulled out to make sure of the win), but he'd just left himself too much to do. I don't think Lopez's performance was particularly brilliant and the spells of the fight which he controlled were generally pretty low-key and never came to the boil - but he was banking the rounds, so the onus was on Lomachenko to adapt and press the issue, which he was curiously very slow to do.

Great win for Lopez though and all of a sudden he's got the keys to plenty of lucrative doors. A rematch with Lomachenko would have people interested, and if Haney gets past Gamboa there's another decent fight there between two young, emerging stars. Unlike Lomachenko, he also definitely looks to have the frame to carry 140 without any problems.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 19 Oct - 5:39

Hard to disagree with most of that...Though I will say P4P number 1 is also based on who you beat as well as your skill level...He has better victories than Terence.

Hagler was P4P number 1 in 87 and it was acknowledged post Mugabi he was fading but his record sustained him...No doubt Spinks...Camacho..Chavez and especially Azumah had good cases.

Personally I'd have Canelo number 1...Got the best record in Boxing and the second fight over GGG and Kovo cemented it.

But we see what we see and I won't argue too much..

Good stuff from you and Beasty....Good night.



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Post by No name Bertie on Mon 19 Oct - 6:58

Lomachenko just didn't do enough, he gave away round after round - rounds which were otherwise close but given away because of an unwillingness to throw punches. Lopez is 9 years younger than Lomachenko and will probably get stronger and eventually go up the weights.

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Post by Mr Bounce on Mon 19 Oct - 7:57

I am genuinely pleased for Lopez. A fabulous talent and a fighter with the world at his feet. Here's hoping that he doesn't waste it. He looks the real deal and certainly has the skills. I for one will be keeping a close eye on him for the next few years.

The scoring was ridiculous as Chris mentioned above. I sometimes wonder if some judges go into a fight with an idea of who they WANT to win and score it slightly skewed as a result?

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Post by rapidringsroad on Mon 19 Oct - 12:29

I agree with Truss, the Lomo Lopez fight was a lot closer than the judges called it, though Lomo lost it in the first half of the fight by not doing enough. In saying that a much bigger percentage of his thrown punches landed. I would also be interested to find out what Lopez weighed on fight night, a lot more than Lomo I bet.

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 20 Oct - 19:08

Haven't watched a Boxing card in ages and this one completely flew by me but with the judging issues raising their head again seems i'm not missing anything. Don't agree with your assessment of Laws or Courteney to hang them up as it's one loss and personally i'm sick of boxers being derided over a loss, start matching people up properly and you'll see more of them.

There's a bit of a hoo haa over the Ritson judging with an argument being put forward that that was his judging clipboard he was holding extremely weirdly :-), no surprise though and wouldn't expect anything less from Hearn to throw him under the bus as there's really nothing he can say about that.

What I will say lads and lasses on here is if you can do anything to help your local amateur clubs, give them a shout, we're struggling at the moment and it looks like some big uns could close down.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 20 Oct - 19:55

Losses can be very informative especially in the way People lose...Charlton had an easy time with a guy with his chin up in Laws who spent the night throwing telegraphed punches...Courtenay was blowing big time after five perhaps due to her lifestyle choices before Boxing and her work rate was sporadic before that. Considering she doesn't carry huge power her lack of stamina will 'be a problem.

Perhaps you missed the bit where I thought Ritson lost but still rate him..

Bless you.

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 20 Oct - 22:14

Wrote a big long post and it got lost.

Hope you and the family are well Truss (and the rest of you), Ritsons a good fighter, just the judging is past the point of just being annoying now, it's actively ruining the sport for me.

Shannon's got bags of time to back up the talent she shown in the amateurs and I did read somewhere she'd been getting a bit big for her boots (can't remember where), if so that will hopefully bring her back down to earth and she'll concentrate on the skill she has.

Only know about Laws through a mate of mine and he says it was a big of an off night, again he's only had a few fights so there's time on his side.

There's only 2 fights i'm looking forward to at this point and that's Amy Timlins title challenge on the undercard of the PPV this weekend and Ben Ridings who's taking part in an Ultimate boxer style tournament. Amys super talented imo (and am gutted she never got a fight with Courteney) and Ben's got a cracking punch both work with Kieran Farrell hence why I know about it :-)

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 21 Oct - 0:14

Not a lot you can do with her stamina if she is blowing after 5 rounds Derby.  You've either got good lung capacity or you haven't.  She has the Hearn team around her with good trainers so she is obviously doing the road work.  Worse in her case because she is a pressure fighter.  Technicians who struggle with stamina like BJS have the ability to spoil their way to the end...

As for Laws he basically got outclassed by an ordinary fighter who happened to have a pulse.  Good on you for not writing him off but I can't see much of a future for a wild swinging guy who has a disposition for looking where to lie down after he takes a decent shot.....The first body shot he took he seemed like he was debating with himself whether to take a knee.  Reminds me of a kid called Engels Pedroza from California back in the day...Good looking and liked knocking out stiffs,  then destroyed when he met someone decent.  Darrin Van Horn also.

Take nothing short of developing a pythagorean formula to get Laws to World level.

But hey hope you are right....Find Shannon very engaging and I would certainly go a few rounds with her but not in a ring.. Teofimo Lopez - A star is born 3845856932 ....

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 21 Oct - 18:45

Pleased to see Lomachenko lose if i'm honest, whilst a fabulous boxer he has been very selective with who he fights and it was only a matter of time before he stepped up and lost, the very definition of a fair weather boxer. That may sound particularly harsh but this is a guy who has often been labelled the best in the world when before this fight the best he'd faced were a severely shopworn Jorge Linares and Luke Campbell.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 21 Oct - 20:10

He can be a great super featherweight if he can be bothered to drop down and dominate there for a few years

Just that fraction bit too small to ever be a great lightweight

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 21 Oct - 23:13

Pretty hard to moan about selectivity when a guy has only had 16 fights and beaten an unbeaten Rigondeux, Campbell, Russell jr, Linares, Crolla, Walters, Martinex and salido in 8 of them..

Probably the only fighter in modern history never to fight someone with less than a 80% winning record.

If only everyone was as selective..Especially other Eastern bloc types.

Like Golovkin who has fought Jacobs and Canelo twice and then a bunch of midgets, sloppy second opponents and never-do-wells in the last ten years.

At least Lomo has the bottle to move up......Golovkin didn't have the bottle to do it.

Hopefully GGG won't retire before someone gives the 'comfort zone' fraud a good hiding.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 21 Oct - 23:56

I don't actually think that's a great list to be honest Truss; Rigondeaux was far too small to be fighting at 130lbs whilst Crolla, Walters and Martinez just aren't that good. He gets credit for Russell jr and Linares but a lot of that tends to be in relation to how many fights he's had more than anything.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 22 Oct - 5:27

Valid points for sure but one could retort that Lomo was still fighting at 126 at 28/29 years old so Rigondeux probably wasn't fighting a natural 130 pounder..

For a 16 fight novice he has an amazing record but if you don't think it's top P4P it's all about opinions...

Not many agree with me that Canelo should now be 1 and Crawford 2 and that's okay.

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Post by 88Chris05 on Thu 22 Oct - 7:02

I think the pound for pound title is pretty open and right now there are maybe four, perhaps even five guys who have a shout. Normally you'd look for a nice blend of a great / deep record along with tremendous performance levels and the look of a fighter who is a cut above his opposition consistently. I think the reason there's little consensus about a pound for pound number one right now is because all of the candidates veer distinctly towards one side of those criteria, rather than having that balance of a great record and correspondingly virtuoso displays to go with it.

Canelo obviously has to be in serious consideration, and if you go on the names he has on his record he's deserving of top spot. But there are a couple of dubious decisions which have gone his way, and a couple of his really big name victories have come against guys a little past their peak.

Usyk? Well he cleaned out a pretty decent Cruiserweight division just about as comprehensively as anyone can, doing it almost exclusively as the away fighter and usually with a very big margin of superiority over his opponents. But those opponents aren't quite of the level to elevate him to top spot despite his tremendous talent, and more importantly he's in a new division now and still untested there in the grand scheme of things.

Inoue? He'd possibly be my personal choice as his all-round game is absolutely fantastic and he's started adding some proper depth to his record having come through the Bantamweight Super Series. His win over Donaire was an absolutely sensational fight and served as further proof that he's got the potential to be truly great. That said, it's still probably his best win and Donaire, brilliantly though he fought on the night, isn't the same fighter he was between 2007 and 2012.

Crawford is another I'd like to put at top spot. Great all-round game with intelligence to match. His title at 135 lb was really just a stepping stone - after that, similarly to Usyk he absolutely cleared out a decent weight class (Light-Welter) and took all the marbles there, looking a million bucks as he did. But that's the problem, it was only a decent division, and so far at Welter he hasn't had the fights his talent and reputation warrant.

Although some people think Heavyweights should be discounted from the pound for pound discussion, I'd say Fury deserves some level of consideration. His demolition job on Wilder was as big a statement as anyone has made in a genuinely big, highly-anticipated fight for quite a while and he's certainly a very rare, perhaps even unique talent amongst all Heavyweights in terms of how he goes about his business. But the overall record outside of his wins over Wlad (five years ago now in any case) and Wilder is still a little thin, for a number of reasons, and though he's still undefeated he has been a slightly inconsistent performer at times, which includes seemingly fighting to the level of his opponent.

Though I don't rate him as highly as many others, I can't really grumble with Canelo being number one as things stand, but I think any of the chasing pack could potentially leapfrog him in 2021. It just depends who gets that signature win first. If Crawford were to unify at Welter against Spence then I'd feel much more comfortable putting him top of the tree. Same goes for Inoue if he gets there first and can tempt Estrada up to 118 lb.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 22 Oct - 7:32

Good points but as with Holyfield before him at the division as much as I rate him Usyk... I will never have a Cruiser at number 1 unless he has been a Champion at other weights..

Yes Canelo has dubious decisions but you'd be hard pressed to find a number 1 that hasn't...Plenty think Chavez lost to Laporte...He lost to Pernell and Steele ripped Taylor off..

Had Manny losing three times to Marquez...First was a disgrace. Mayweather also had his close affairs...Camacho had Rosario...Some People thought Starling won the second fight with Curry....Holmes v Norton etc.

Only rip off in Canelo's career was GGG 1.Everything else was 'contentious'

But we see what we see.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 22 Oct - 7:44

I'm always a bit conflicted on how to assess the decisions that Alvarez as benefited from, no single decision could be described as a robbery but the sheer number of them suggests he's never going to lose a close one. Add in the fact there's always one abysmal scorecard and it does stink a bit, the worst of all was CJ Ross scoring the Mayweather fight a draw, if he won a round in that fight i'd like to know which one.

We seem to be in a state of flux at the moment, a few boxers with the potential to prove their greatness but no one in that absolute top echelon which is in stark contrast to about 10 years ago.

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Post by 88Chris05 on Thu 22 Oct - 10:26

Personally I thought he lost the first Golovkin fight clearly, and it was a terrible verdict. I thought Canelo's performance on the night was pretty poor - not sure if he got his weight-making wrong, over-trained or whatever, but he really looked like he was struggling at times. I'd struggle to give him more than four rounds.

The rematch (which I've not never watched back) was close enough to go either way, I thought, pretty much the same as the Trout and Lara fights. Obviously these were a while back but pretty sure I had Trout edging him by a point, and the Lara fight a draw. I know there was some (not much) discontent with the Cotto verdict, but I thought Canelo won that one handsomely enough. But as you mention, Soul, it's the margin of some of the cards he gets in his favour which sow the distrust. If he'd got all these fights by split decision with cards along the lines of 114-113, 112-115, 114-113 you could *maybe* argue that he was just lucky. But 114-114 against Mayweather? 118-109 against Trout? 117-111 against Lara? 118-110 against Golovkin etc.? Just underlines that he's afforded a certain level of protection.

Interesting you mention the sport being in a state of flux at the moment. There's no real reason why it should be, yet it does feel like there's definitely truth in what you say there. Normally at any given time in history, if you drew up a pound for pound top ten, or even just a top five list, you'd have a couple of guys who are there largely on pure ability and who have ascended on the strength of very recent results with the potential to add to those - but you'd also always expect there to be at least a couple of bona fide great fighters who have proven that beyond a reasonable doubt.

Right now, it's possible you could draw up a top five or maybe even a full top ten and have nobody who really fits that description. It does feel like the current leading crop, quality fighters though they all are, still have quite a lot to prove compared to their predecessors. Especially given the fact that some of them aren't especially young in boxing terms.

It really highlights how depressingly infrequent genuinely big and meaningful fights are these days. Amazing that at the turn of the century, fans would complain that the 'Super Fight' decades of the 1980s and 1990s were a thing of the past. Yet just look at a, say, two-year period straddling the centuries, between 1999 and 2001. In those two years alone we had Lewis-Holyfield, Trinidad-De la Hoya, Mosley-De la Hoya, Barrera-Morales, Vargas-Trinidad, Trinidad-Hopkins, Barrera-Hamed, Corrales-Mayweather etc. All cases of the biggest names in the sport, often both ranked as some of the pound for pound best, going in for unification fights, risking their 0s against each other etc. Sure, some of the fights didn't live up to expectations, but at least they happened. And that's just in a two year stretch!

Hell, I'd settle for something as big and meaningful as Judah-Tszyu right now, never mind any of the above.
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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 22 Oct - 19:31

For the UK is not just the proliferation of sub par PPV's, in my mind a PPV should be a big event, one you want to get the family and friends round for and make the night truly memorable which then burns the fights in your memory. Seems to me lately that there's a PPV every other week and any half decent fight is on PPV so what makes the really really big stars stand out to me??????

The judging situation has really got to me lately, I like Canelo and have watched him on and off since he started but that idea that he always has at least 1 judge bugs me not because it's false but because it looks like it's true and he really doesn't need it.

Unlike everyone else I had him edging GGG in the first round by a point BUT wouldn't argue if GGG had got the win. And I think the biggest issue with that is that people are thinking of the scoring rather than the bout itself (we should be celebrating him getting in the ring with Mayweather and putting it on the line, okay he got beat and beat handily but he was still willing to do it, instead we remember CJ Ross's awful card).

Joshua seems to have gone from genuine PPV star to a lot of people just can't be bothered with him anymore, the flim flaming over the Fury fight hasn't helped.

Maybe i'm just getting miserable in my old edge but boxing sucks donkey nuts at the minute and there was such a great chance to build it back up again

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 22 Oct - 19:55

Derbymanc wrote:

Joshua seems to have gone from genuine PPV star to a lot of people just can't be bothered with him anymore, the flim flaming over the Fury fight hasn't helped.


His most recent fight with Ruiz broke British PPV records so don't think that is at all true.

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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 22 Oct - 21:50

I'm on about after that Soul, since the rematch I think the shine has well and truly gone off him. He doesn't seem to be talked about much on the Forums and facebook etc and there's been a lot of derision thrown his way as well. I think the shine is starting to come off him and if he doesn't step up to Fury next year do believe his legacy could be tarnished

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 22 Oct - 21:58

'Facebook', sorry if I ignore anything said on there Derby.

I don't think that's an opinion that can be held until he fights again to be honest, there has been very little talk of boxing this year for obvious reasons. There's a tendency for hyperbole in situations like this where people transpose their own opinion of people on to a wider group of imaginary people and does largely depend on which side of the fence you sit. I wouldn't personally hold Fury against AJ for the sole reason he and his cousin are proven dopers, neither of whom should be allowed near a boxing ring again.

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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 22 Oct - 22:12

well considering before he was talked about a lot, about opponents and that and these days he hardly crosses my timeline, whilst we know who he is no one seems to be bothered.

Me, I like AJ, always have but he's gotta step up to the plate this year. as for Fury and doping, my stance on that is if your found guilty then you should be banned for life BUT the sport isn't run that way (Miller will be back again) so you gotta let him get on with it.

I'm not even sure if it's there's little talk of boxing, I think that from the UK perspective what we've been dished up have been glorified sparring sessions, the PPV's are mediocre at best and there seems to be an unwillingness around for anyone to actually risk anything especially at the British Euro level.

Judging is more abysmal than ever and it's started to happen but will it continue that the pundits call it out (I guarantee Big Ed would have been silent until the whole 'phone' thing blew up.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 23 Oct - 4:49

I didn't buy AJ v Ruiz 2 because I knew Ruiz was an undedicated slob and it was an easy night...Still hope he enjoys the lottery win....Not easy losing to Parker.

I don't rate Joshua that highly..Tommy Morrison would have hammered him with that defence...

Not a decent operator that hasn't had him in trouble.

Won't buy Pulev but will pay for Fury...Who should win comfortably.

The fact Chisora and Whyte are PPV really sums up all that is wrong with the sport.

You are being exploited Brit fans.

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Post by Derbymanc on Fri 23 Oct - 22:37

100 percent agree with you on the PPV stakes Truss, why put any decent bouts above British level on Sky sports when people will pay for it on PPV.


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Post by Mr Bounce on Sat 24 Oct - 0:45

Oh how I miss the days of "The Big Fight Live" on ITV in the 90s.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 24 Oct - 0:58

Derbymanc wrote:100 percent agree with you on the PPV stakes Truss, why put any decent bouts above British level on Sky sports when people will pay for it on PPV.


Think about Whyte.....Its a bit like Tubbs beating Broad, Smith, Page...then losing to Witherspoon and Tyson and then HBO saying pay for his next fight..Laughed out of town.

Complete joke and as for 9 defeat Chisora who is selling the Usyk fight.....Let's be honest many Brits only ever saw Usyk beat Bellew.

Basically like Holyfield v Tillis all over again..But tillis has a slightly better chance.

Well down the road of paying for good matchups now regardless of whether a fighter is PPV......Boxing has come along way since Hearn said Froch v Kessler was a one off..Not that anybody believed him.

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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 24 Oct - 1:10

I did at first Truss, openly stated on here I thought he was good for boxing, of course then the flood of any 60/40 fight became PPV, then I heard about him massively underpaying for away fighters and the debacles there and now think it's Poopie.

Don't get me wrong, if you give me a decent card once a month with genuine 50/50 fights, decent judging and refs and i'd pay 15 quid for it as it works out cheaper than Sky sports, but not the dross we're getting now

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