Scotland v Georgia Friday 24th October

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Georgia
Friday 24th October 2020

BT Murrayfield

KO 19.30

Live on ITV 4


Well at long last we have an international game coming up for Scotland fans to enjoy, a warm up game for the final 6N fixture against Wales the following weekend.

It will be an interesting line up though, as a fair few players will be missing due to the English Premiership final that weekend and it also being outside of the international window.

So what kind of lineup will we see?

My guess is something along these lines:


1. Sutherland
2. Brown (Captain in Hogg's absence)
3. Fagerson Z
4. Cummings
5. Harley (Been the form lock in Scotland these past weeks)
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Fagerson M
9. Price
10. Hastings
11. Graham
12. Lang (Johnson to get a run out with Glasgow)
13. Grigg
14. VDM
15. Jones H

Subs:

Keeble
McInally
Nel
Gray R
Cowan
Steele (I fancy he might have a look at him off the bench)
Weir
Hoyland (Kinghorn to have a run with Edinburgh as well)

Ashman was great in the U20s a few months back.

Horrible hair cut though.

There was a young man called Glass
Who never could tackle or pass
Though he jumped ever so high
The game passed him by
Cause he spent too much time on his ass.

Flounder, neither a sonnet nor a short story but a Limerick which seems more fitting somehow.

tigertattie wrote:Ashman was great in the U20s a few months back.

Horrible hair cut though.

That's got to be the quintessential Luvvie criticism of a player.

jimbopip wrote:There was a young man called Glass
Who never could tackle or pass
Though he jumped ever so high
The game passed him by
Cause he spent too much time on his ass.

Flounder, neither a sonnet nor a short story but a Limerick which seems more fitting somehow.

Tattie was the one requesting a sonnet

RDW wrote:

jimbopip wrote:There was a young man called Glass
Who never could tackle or pass
Though he jumped ever so high
The game passed him by
Cause he spent too much time on his ass.

Flounder, neither a sonnet nor a short story but a Limerick which seems more fitting somehow.

Tattie was the one requesting a sonnet

Ahhhh but I think I’m too uncouth for his jimboness

There once was the fella who liked Glasgow
Why he liked them? Fecked if I know
They’re full of fake tanners
And they have zero panners (I miss chunck)
And let’s face it, Scotstoun is a no-go

Damn you Tigertattie you have brought out the domini in me. Full marks for effort. You obviously have a passing acquaintance with the conventions of limerick writing but lack the technical skills necessary to succeed. Rather like a certain east coast club's knowledge of HOW a team should play rugby and their inability to actually put it into practice.
Haiku
A towering behemoth
Slowly topples like Scot's pine before the axe.
Mr Glass shatters again.

BigGee wrote:I sm a bit dissapointed for Shuggy as well.

BK lack of gametime gave Toonie a legitimate reason to stand him down for this one and a 6/2 split leaves no room for him on the bench

Hopefully he will get a run out for Glasgow this weekdnd and get his shot in one of the other games

Toonie mentions in his rundown of the team that Blair Kinghorn was outstanding in the 6 Nations on the wing. Was he?! He wasn't awful but I don't remember him being outstanding.

I think he's maybe talking about the 2019 six Nations, everyone's already forgotten this year!

Blarehorn presents Toonie with a dilemma: he obviously has the potential to be hugely important player for Scotland, the SRU has invested a lot of time and money in him, he isn't really putting in performances that justify his billing as the next big thing. Does Toonie sideline him until he learns to pass the ball? Will he improve, at international level, if he isn't playing? Do we reward his lack of form with Scotland caps?
From where I'm sitting he's fourth, or fifth, choice for a wing spot; ADHD Kid, No Maits, DVDM, Seaman then Blarehorn. Fifth! as long as the Giant Red Crayon doesn't fancy a run with the backs, then he's sixth.
On form he's third choice 15.
You do wonder if he's a slowish developer or if he has peaked already.

Oh and on the subject of poetry....here's one about the grief that women tend to suffer at the hands of faithless men ( I think it's by Sappho but it might be Aphra Behn) but it could just as easily be by Cockers after watching a Duncan Hodge skills session

Pain
penetrates me
drop by drop

ADHD kid

I agree with you Jimbo I think I've said in the past that Kinghorn could be the Scottish equivalent of Liam Williams. He's got all the attributes but his decision making is questionable at times. However, he is 23 years old. At the same age Liam Williams had a handful of caps for Wales and only one try I believe. So as with McDowall, he is still pretty raw as a player actually. I guess we'll know by the 2023 RWC how he has progressed and if he has made it to the same level as Williams and other world class fullbacks. I'm going to try and not be too harsh on him, he'll hopefully come good and someone needs to be there to replace Hogg at some point in the next 4-5 years.

bsando wrote:ADHD kid

I agree with you Jimbo I think I've said in the past that Kinghorn could be the Scottish equivalent of Liam Williams. He's got all the attributes but his decision making is questionable at times. However, he is 23 years old. At the same age Liam Williams had a handful of caps for Wales and only one try I believe. So as with McDowall, he is still pretty raw as a player actually. I guess we'll know by the 2023 RWC how he has progressed and if he has made it to the same level as Williams and other world class fullbacks. I'm going to try and not be too harsh on him, he'll hopefully come good and someone needs to be there to replace Hogg at some point in the next 4-5 years.

I think Hogg was around the same age when he had his guff year, amid the hissy fit saying he was leaving Glasgow. I distinctly remember him forgetting how to pass too. I also agree he's still raw but I think at the present time it'd benefit us more to have Jones back in the squad!

Word coming out of Scotstoun is that one squad player has tested positive and two others are self isolating. I wonder if Jones will appear in either squad.
Oh yes, Toonie was saying the 6-2 bench was fine because Matt F, Mbawza and Haining can all play in the backs if needed.

King Blairhorn is clearly a brilliant athlete and has a lot of rugby talent, but he hasn't progressed as much as he should have at this stage in his career - he may only be 23 but he must have nigh on 100 pro appearances to his name and he is still making consistent errors most of the time I watch him play.

Toonie obviously wants to back his man and views him as our second best 15, as he had the perfect cover to pick Shug for this game - he is undoubtedly in better form just now.

Maybe it's Jones that is one of the 3 that are isolating?

Yeah you never know. I'm guessing we'll see Johnson back which is good news. Can't believe Scotland will be playing tomorrow evening, feels like an age! Toonie has been given a better chance with Covid to solidify the new game plan rather than put it up against the double SA tests and NZ test match as originally planned.

I just hope that whoever it is will be ok.
We have lower, higher, lower, higher, lower levels in the seeding of opposition coming up, so this may be a good thing to allow us to rest players for a week, or try out some inexperienced players. I know that there is a rest weekend for 7 November, but the Exeter chaps have been full on for a few weeks now in quite intense games, so I would expect Hogg and Gray to to maybe be rested for Italy?

Sorry to be slow on this, but how on earth has Huw Jones missed out on that 23? What is Toonie doing with two specialist number 8s on the bench??

I'm looking forward to seeing Lang in action though.

bsando wrote:ADHD kid  

I agree with you Jimbo I think I've said in the past that Kinghorn could be the Scottish equivalent of Liam Williams. He's got all the attributes but his decision making is questionable at times. However, he is 23 years old. At the same age Liam Williams had a handful of caps for Wales and only one try I believe. So as with McDowall, he is still pretty raw as a player actually. I guess we'll know by the 2023 RWC how he has progressed and if he has made it to the same level as Williams and other world class fullbacks. I'm going to try and not be too harsh on him, he'll hopefully come good and someone needs to be there to replace Hogg at some point in the next 4-5 years.

I think that comparison to Liam Williams is a tad generous to Kinghorn. I see why you're comparing them - lanky back 3 players who can offer a spark - but don't think Kinghorn has the same potential. Liam's best trait is probably his rugby intelligence, that all round ability to read the game and make the correct decision. That's the very thing Kinghorn seems to lack. I'd say he's probably a mix of Liam Williams' physique with Alex Cuthbert's rugby brain. A better comparison would be Stockdale. Kinghorn reminds me of a poor man's Stockdale.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Sorry to be slow on this, but how on earth has Huw Jones missed out on that 23? What is Toonie doing with two specialist number 8s on the bench??

I'm looking forward to seeing Lang in action though.

I think that Haining can play 6, so Ritchie can be subbed or play openside to give Watson a rest. Du Preez will cover for M Fagerson. It will be pretty attentional up front, so we need to share the workload I think.
Don't know much about Lang, other than he has been playing regularly, and the other squad 12s haven't. I have a feeling that the Lang/Harris combination will be solid, but unspectacular.

But, maybe we need a balance, given the spectacular nature of our half backs and back three. The yin and yang of Toonie perhaps?

Haining is really a 6/8 with CDP more of an out and out 8. Haining also covers lock too if needed.

On Kinghorn/Jones, I think people are getting a bit carried away both in terms of the criticism of the former and the cheerleading of the latter. We're also very quick to cut down or brightest talents - he's only 23!

Kinghorn is an incredibly talented player - a huge attacking threat and almost as big a boot as Hogg. HE's put in some epic performances for Edinburgh in the league and Champions Cup and has 7 tries for Scotland in 15 appearances which is a good strike rate at the highest level. Yes he needs to improve his rugby intelligence and particularly when to go for the break and when to pass, but I'm not sure how people think he will achieve this by not playing? I don't see any ego issues like Hogg had in his early 20s, where being dropped was very much needed. The clock is ticking on the 'he's still young' excuse though so hopefully we can see some improvement soon. I think he'll be our long term replacement to Hogg though and we're lucky to have him.

As for Jones, I think we're so desperate to see him back to his best for Scotland that we're clutching at any hint of form as a sign that he has returned. He has looked comfortable at 15 and scored a nice try last weekend which is good, but it's not like his performances have been demanding his selection. Townsend will be happy that he can slot in there, but I can't see him being selected at 15 other than bench cover or through injury. Personally I'd prefer him to remain an option at 13, and all it takes is an injury to Harris and he could be back playing there. We've got decent depth at 15 but not so much at 13.

I'd argue our depth at 13 is greater than the depth at 15. Other than Hogg and Kinghorn there aren't really any viable options regularly playing at 15 for their clubs, whereas Harris, Jones, Bennett and Taylor are all international standard 13s, with club players like Grigg and Johnstone offering back up.

The fact that Jones is being talked up at 15 after a small number of games in the role highlights the point. Maitland is probably the other option at 15 but he's really a winger, and has nothing like the kicking game of Hogg and Kinghorn.

I suppose so, although I'm not convinced we can realistically still include Taylor on that list. Bennett is a weird one - he has been fit for a while now and played plenty games, but still doesn't get a look in. It obviously doesn't help that any 13 that plays at Edinburgh becomes Mr invisible on the pitch.

Don't forget Hutchison at 13 too, when fit.

I see Maitland won't be playing for Baa Baa's after breaching covid protocol and going for a meal in London with other players. Shame for him and particularly Chris Robshaw too. It seems an extreme reaction to me but I understand they have set up a bubble and the players should have known better to leave it. Could be a pretty one sided affair on Saturday now though.

Have to say I am quite excited for this game tonight. Georgia won't be pushovers so it'll be a physical game with possibly not too many tries. I don't know what sort of shape the Georgians will be in but I like that we're playing them again and giving them exposure to a higher level of rugby. Hopefully the SRU can form a strong relationship with them and have more matches in the future. I'd be very happy to see Scotland play them every year for some sort of silverware.

We couldbe playing Georgia twice this autumn if things dont go well for us against Fiji and France!

So is this game tonight (on Friday), or on the 24th October?

Tonight itv4

Georgia should be a good physical contest....at the same time, Italy are a better side than them and we should be winning by two scores or more. The set piece is where Georgia can get the upper hand so looking at the front five to go and set out the stall early.

Georgia XV: 15. Soso Matiashvili, 14. Akaki Tabutsadze, 13. Deme tapladze, 12. Merab Sharikadze (CAP), 11. Sandro Todua, 10. Tedo Abzhandadze, 9. Vasil Lobzhanidze; 1. Mikheil Nariashvili, 2. Jaba Bregvadze, 3. Lexo Kaulashvili, 4. Nodar Cheishvili, 5. Grigol Kerdikoshvili, 6. Otar Giorgadze, 7. Beka Saghinadze, 8. Beka Gorgadze.
Replacements: 16. Shalva Mamukashvili, 17. Guram Gogichashvili, 18. Giorgi Melikidze, 19. Giorgi Javakhia, 20. Giorgi Tkhilaishvili, 21. Gela APrasidze, 22. Giorgi Kveseladze, 23. Tamaz Mchedlidze.

No Davit Kacharava at 13 who is one of Georgia's talisman and their defensive lynchpin.

Abzhandadze and Lobzhanidze are an exciting 9 and 10 pairing.

Mikheil Nariashvili is one of the best looseheads in world rugby so a good challenge for Fagerson. Guram Gogichashvili is a really talented loosehead as well on the bench.

No Beka Gigashvili though which is a blow for Georgia at tighthead.

Beka Gorgadze is outstanding, a bit like Parisse for Italy and Mamuka Gorgodze previously for Georgia in always standing out. I'd actually argue that Gorgadze and Kazuki Himeno should be in a discussion for the best number 8 in rugby which shows how far some lower tier nations have come in the game.

Their second row is much weaker than in recent years though. From their RWC locks - Giorgi Nemsadze is retired, neither of Kote Mikautadze and Lasha Lomidze aren't involved (unsure why), Mamuka Gorgodze is retired (again). Nodar Tchieshvili is a Georgia lock who has played a fair few tests in the 6 Nations B against Spain, Germany, Portugal, etc when their first choices sometimes get left with their clubs (usually in France) to get exposure to higher level club rugby. Then when it comes to higher profile games such as these Tchieshvili will usually miss out with the likes of Mikautadze (a really good lock) and Lomidze coming in. I'm unsure why they haven't been brought in for these games, but it's a lock pairing well below Georgia's best these days.

Merab Sharikadze is experienced and has been viewed as Kacharava's long term heir for a while - one to watch.

Great insight - thanks KC. I like the look of our front row, and is probably the most powerful scrummaging unit we can field these days - will be a good test for them. like you said, especially for Fagerson who has hit a really good run of form of late.

May be missing some of the French players as we are outside the international window and Top 14 is on. France had to agree to three matches per player max to get the extra games played.

That is an excellent write up though KC, thank you for doing that

Well this is odd. Sitting down to watch rugby on my Jack Jones

tigertattie wrote:Well this is odd. Sitting down to watch rugby on my Jack Jones

I would say that's odd for me but that'd be a lie

Although nothing beats a Friday night coming back after a slow day at work, missus is out on night shift, beer and pizza and a bit of peace watching the rugby on the big TV for a change!

Not a bad start!

Blair not doing his selection any favours there

Have to say, all that chat about Georgia replacing Italy looks more and more ludicrous by the year. Decent team, full of effort, but a few glimpses in 2015 are being taken as their 'standard'. There's a smaller gulf in class between Scotland and Italy as there is between Italy and Georgia. Not a great team.

Scotland looking decent so far but it really does have the feel of a 'nothing' game. Test rugby without fans is pants.

I hope they hook Kinghorn st half time at the latest. He is really off form.

Georgia are missing half their first XV here and most the guys playing haven't played rugby since February.

Fagerson was very lucky not to be pinged for swimming round the side of the maul that led to Graham's turnover.

Our rolling maul looks much better. Georgia are meant to be renowned for their forward play so that’s a positive.

Of course it’s strange times with Georgian players lacking matches. But signs are good

king_carlos wrote:Georgia are missing half their first XV here and most the guys playing haven't played rugby since February.

Which is what all international teams have to deal with. It demonstrates my point tbh. Not ready for tier 1 rugby on a regular basis. Which is fine, no shame in that.

Jimbo. Is this a haiku?

Duhan
Like Visser
Though he tackles

Think Cummings has looked the pick of the bunch so far. I don't think kinghorn has been horrific, just obviously he's under extra scrutiny as he's kept Jones out. Graham looks superb as always. Aye not shabby so far tbh.

tigertattie wrote:Jimbo. Is this a haiku?

Duhan
Like Visser
Though he tackles

I'd still pick Sean "my Corona" Maitland over him on this game so far.

Ref is doing a Nige and not bothering to ref the game. Sooooo many offences being left. Knocks ons also ignored at times

So great seeing the mullet back doing what he does best. He's one of the funnest players to watch.

Fagerson Jr has also actually looked improved at this level, fumbled dive on the ball aside (the fact he made it back before our backs is impressive in its own right)

king_carlos wrote:So great seeing the mullet back doing what he does best. He's one of the funnest players to watch.

No player like him, we'll miss him when he hangs the boots up!

Got to be honest, the way NH teams use possession is depressing. Good attacking platform on the 22: grubber it in to touch. It's coming back to earth with a bump having watched the two Bledisloe games, that's for sure!

NeilyBroon wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Jimbo. Is this a haiku?

Duhan
Like Visser
Though he tackles

I'd still pick Sean "my Corona" Maitland over him on this game so far.

Lang and Harris are not drawing defenders or straightening up. When Scotland are passing the ball it’s all moving diagonally and duhan is getting the ball to close to the touchline. He needs a bit of help from those inside him