The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Page 4 of 15 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9 ... 15  Next

Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 on Wed 21 Oct 2020, 8:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

First winter tour for England confirmed today: three T20s and three ODIs in South Africa from the 27th November-9th December.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/54537709

A possible limited-overs tour of Pakistan, which would be England's first trip to that country since 2005, as well as visits to Sri Lanka and India may also go ahead in early 2021.

Duty281

Posts : 23319
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 25
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down


England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 on Fri 11 Dec 2020, 1:40 pm

All of Sibley, Crawley, Root, Bairstow, Buttler, and Foakes in the top six? Then two or three of Moeen, Bess and Leach, with two or three of Anderson, Broad, Curran, Woakes or Wood, depending on whether England want, er, two or three spinners. I suppose two main spinners would suffice with Root's golden arm as a backup. Perhaps:

1) Sibley
2) Crawley
3) Root
4) Bairstow
5) Buttler
6) Foakes
7) Woakes
8) Bess
9) Broad
10) Leach
11) Anderson

Does look a little light on batting, though Sri Lanka are a little light on bowling! Am equally surprised to see Jimmy in the squad, and expect he'll only play one test with Curran/Wood coming in at some point.

Duty281

Posts : 23319
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 25
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 11 Dec 2020, 3:57 pm

Playing 3 seamers who bowl in the mid 80s would be a huge mistake. Its incredibly rare (see past tour) for anyone who doesn't have express pace to take wickets with seam there. If we also assume buttler will keep wicket regardless of how many jeepers are in the squad and foakes being foakes

Not having Stokes puts even more onus on the spinners to deliver. Trouble is this time around none of them really demand to be selected but at least mo and bess enable some level of batting depth. Have to ask how they've ended up with no leg spinner in the squad but two in reserve and neither of them being the one who had success there last tour, all part of the long term issue they have had with spinners and being married to mo in all formats.

Also feel it was a bit odd they've ended taking Broad and Anderson given Anderson wated no part of the tour last winter. Underdatnd resting archer but he would be of far more value.

Assume bairstows been picked to fill that 3 role again with burns out and that buttlers keeping wicket no matter how may foakes are along for the trip. Him being in the official squad rather than as a reserve does suggest they are considering it though, just really hard to see how you ballance a side without dropping buttler which seems unthinkable. Buttler and bairstow as speclist bats in the same side seems a bit too previous regime for me!

Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos on Fri 11 Dec 2020, 4:19 pm

I'd bet on Foakes playing given that squad. He's a good player of spin who has performed in Tests before. Seems more likely than Lawrence debuting to me.

I also think Moeen will play and bat at 6 with Foakes at 7. I'd prefer Foakes at 6 everyday given Mo's inconsistencies with the bat but just what I reckon the selectors/coaches will go for. Mo at 6, Foakes keeping and 3 spinners.

1.Sibley
2.Crawley
3.Bairstow
4.Root
5.Buttler
6.Moeen
7.Foakes (wk)
8.Bess
9.Leach
10.Broad/Anderson
11.Wood/Stone

Then if the pitch looks like seamers will be in the game more Mo will probably drop out with Woakes or Surran picked as the 'all rounder' in Stokes absence.

Had Stokes been available I'd guess that fewer seamers would be in that squad. With Stokes the side loses a lot of balance so the presence of two bowling all rounders (Woakes and Curran), two seamers (Anderson and Broad) and two pace bowlers (Wood and Stone) feels like covering all bases.

king_carlos

Posts : 6379
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 11 Dec 2020, 4:58 pm

king_carlos wrote:I'd bet on Foakes playing given that squad. He's a good player of spin who has performed in Tests before. Seems more likely than Lawrence debuting to me.

I also think Moeen will play and bat at 6 with Foakes at 7. I'd prefer Foakes at 6 everyday given Mo's inconsistencies with the bat but just what I reckon the selectors/coaches will go for. Mo at 6, Foakes keeping and 3 spinners.

1.Sibley
2.Crawley
3.Bairstow
4.Root
5.Buttler
6.Moeen
7.Foakes (wk)
8.Bess
9.Leach
10.Broad/Anderson
11.Wood/Stone

Then if the pitch looks like seamers will be in the game more Mo will probably drop out with Woakes or Surran picked as the 'all rounder' in Stokes absence.

Had Stokes been available I'd guess that fewer seamers would be in that squad. With Stokes the side loses a lot of balance so the presence of two bowling all rounders (Woakes and Curran), two seamers (Anderson and Broad) and two pace bowlers (Wood and Stone) feels like covering all bases.

Totally agree with your observations Carlos - far more likely to go the three spinner, two seamer route than the other way round imo. One seamer as the "pure pace" battering ram type, and the other to take advantage of what little new ball movement there is, and bowl some tidy overs and use cutters etc as and when needed.
I agree with Goose, the fact Foakes is in the full squad suggests to me he will keep wicket. I do think they'd bat him ahead of Moeen, but it's splitting hairs a bit.

Not the worst side considering we lose the balance of Stokes. Root can bowl a few overs if needed, but I'm not sure I'd be happy using him as the third spinner with three seamers...if that makes any sense whatsoever haha
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 47877
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos on Fri 11 Dec 2020, 5:25 pm

Agree with you on the 3 spinners rather than Root bowling a few, Olly. The argument could be made for including Lawrence ahead of Mo then using both Lawrence and Root as the 3rd option. Again I'd prefer to go with 3 spinners though.

Moeen is a gamble but with 3 of the current first choice top 6, including Stokes, unavailable and no standout spinner I think it's probably worth the gamble.

Is 3 spinners a reaction to England lacking a clear first choice, wicket taking spinner? Yes. But the pitches will likely be burners and given that's where we stand with our spin cupboard it's probably the best balance available. I really hope Jack Leach can find his groove and bowl well, he's a really good spinner and deserves it after a torrid time following his Ashes cult hero status.

My main worry with taking the 6 seamers/pace is potential burnout from covid bubbles. Covering all bases for this tour is good but Wood, Curran and Woakes in particular are 3 format players now. If it becomes clear to the coaches early on that any of the seamers wont feature then I could see one or two heading home early to give them a breather.

king_carlos

Posts : 6379
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 11 Dec 2020, 8:56 pm

Don't forget the reserves will be in a bubble too so there will be a lot of players bench warming. The concussion and covid rules make it very risky not to take a big extended squad. The part I find a bit odd is having such a split of deamers between core squad and reserve. Seems to be an element of bet hedging and ego massaging. Might also tie in to payments and central contracts.

Looking back at that last tour they did play all 3 keepers together for one test which strengthens the case for it. The difference now though is in the absence of stokes everyone bats a position higher to get the same bowling options in.

Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by JDizzle on Fri 11 Dec 2020, 9:22 pm

I fancy this for my first Test line up:

Sibley
Crawley
Bairstow
Root
Buttler
Ali
Foakes
Curran/Woakes
Bess
Leach
Stone/Wood

I do like the one suggestions of one seamer to be the swing bowler with the new ball - and as we will probably be looking at a reasonably low scoring series (350 is probably a match winning score batting first) I would suspect they go with Curran or Woakes to bat 8, with Bess 9, to really lengthen the batting order. Especially with Mo being somewhat of a wildcard at 6.

Then you’d think Broad and Anderson can’t really do either slot, as they don’t have the batting of Curran/Woakes or raw pace of Stone/Wood. And when your seamers will be lucky to bowl 10 overs an innings, you think if they were more effective than SCurran or Woakes it wouldn’t make that much difference.

Six seamers purely an injury/bubble precaution? Wood and Stone are injury prone. Anderson is old and getting more injury prone. But still seems overkill.

Half considered Mo getting left out, as him Bess both offer the same angle - when in 2018 you had three different actions. But when you look at the numbers from the last tour, the third spinner in Rashid still bowled 33 overs a Test. I don’t think you can make that up with Root + more work for the seamers.

JDizzle

Posts : 5456
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie on Sun 13 Dec 2020, 3:46 am

Reasonable squad, some sensible resting policy. Not sure what actual XI will be taking the field first up though...

Foakes fans may have reason to hope - and indeed his selection seems logical. But : the articles I've read suggest Buttler is still pencilled in to keep , at least at first (not sure Smith actually said so directly , but it was implied - and with Smith , who knows ?) I honestly can't see them having Buttler keeping and batting as high as five given they frequently used to have him "protected" at seven even when he played as a specialist bat. But I suppose if they pick Lawrence we could see something like :
Sibley
Crawley
Bairstow
Root
Lawrence
Buttler
Curran....Woakes
Bess
Leach
Wood...Broad
Anderson....Stone.

Moeen of course must be possible. But he really hasn't shown anything even in the white ball game recently to get excited about...I think I'd be looking , at least at first , to the boys from Somerset.

alfie

Posts : 13439
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 21 Dec 2020, 11:09 am

Kallis joining the party as a batting consultant

Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 26 Dec 2020, 8:50 pm

https://twitter.com/telegraphsport/status/1342933115019390978?s=21

Because evidently the ECB think we as fans don’t have to pay enough subscriptions to watch a dying format of the sport as it is
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 47877
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by JDizzle on Sat 26 Dec 2020, 9:15 pm

Big money spent on hosting the WC + big money spent on Hundred + pandemic. Needs must is the argument they will make I guess. At least it isn't a series that is on at a more normal time in England.

JDizzle

Posts : 5456
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 on Sat 26 Dec 2020, 9:45 pm

Disney? Cricket? Dear, dear.

Still, at least HotStar is only £6 per month, and we can also watch the finest Indian blockbusters and try to work out what Kabaddi is...it's probably preferable to watching England sink to a solemn innings defeat.

Duty281

Posts : 23319
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 25
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by JDizzle on Sat 26 Dec 2020, 10:04 pm

Duty281 wrote:Disney? Cricket? Dear, dear.

Still, at least HotStar is only £6 per month, and we can also watch the finest Indian blockbusters and try to work out what Kabaddi is...it's probably preferable to watching England sink to a solemn innings defeat.

Disney's £5.99 on a month!

JDizzle

Posts : 5456
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 27 Dec 2020, 5:32 am

Showing my age maybe but I remember when we could get kabadi on free to air TV in this country.

I thought they made a profit on the WC hosting? The financial sh1tshow of this year made money grabs inevitable

Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by JDizzle on Thu 31 Dec 2020, 9:11 pm

https://twitter.com/wisdencricket/status/1344692598087233537?s=21

2020 becomes the first year since 2013 Joe Root hasn’t finished as England’s top run scorer in Tests. I know we can put our slights on him (poor conversion, been off form for a year or two) but Christ, he has carried that line up for a while!

JDizzle

Posts : 5456
Join date : 2011-03-11

Good Golly I'm Olly likes this post

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by JDizzle on Thu 31 Dec 2020, 9:15 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Showing  my age maybe but I remember when we could get kabadi on free to air TV in this country.

I thought they made a profit on the WC  hosting? The financial sh1tshow of this year made money grabs inevitable

My cricket club were told at the start of 2019 there no was no money left to go round for any projects to improve our ground, so it was tied up for a bit at least. And all the reserves were eaten into by the Hundred too IIRC. George Dobell, whilst not my favourite journo, was hot on that highlighting the problems it could cause.

JDizzle

Posts : 5456
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Jan 2021, 4:06 pm

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/south-africa-vs-sri-lanka-2nd-test-johannesburg-sl-limp-towards-second-test-with-squad-decimated-by-injuries-1246013

5 unavailable for their next test and thought 3 of those will still be out for the England series, although at least thats Chandimal and Lakmal.

Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jan 2021, 5:21 pm

Gooseberry wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/south-africa-vs-sri-lanka-2nd-test-johannesburg-sl-limp-towards-second-test-with-squad-decimated-by-injuries-1246013

5 unavailable for their next test and thought 3 of those will still be out for the England series, although at least thats Chandimal and Lakmal.

You’d figure the two seamers missing against England wouldn’t be too much of an issue, Dhananjaya De Silva missing would be a big miss though. Offers a huge amount of balance to that XI especially at home
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 47877
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 02 Jan 2021, 6:19 pm

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jan/02/joe-root-jos-buttler-england-sri-lanka?__twitter_impression=true

Some interesting notes in here - Foakes to get a go in India with Buttler rested (at least some of the tour), Bairstow and Lawrence likely to come in for Burns and Pope in Sri Lanka.

Didn’t quite realise the sheer amount of tests this upcoming year, along with the T20 World Cup preparation, going to be a lot of rotation and a chance for those on the fringes to get some proper game time it looks like
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 47877
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 1:51 pm

Moeen has tested positive for Covid, and now has to self isolate for 10 days...which would mean he is out of isolation one day before the first test. Seems unlikely he plays with no build up or preparation.
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 47877
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

guildfordbat likes this post

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by James100 on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 3:12 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Moeen has tested positive for Covid, and now has to self isolate for 10 days...which would mean he is out of isolation one day before the first test. Seems unlikely he plays with no build up or preparation.

I wonder whether they'll call one of the reserve spinners up to the main squad. Would give a sign of what they're looking at in terms of team structure.

James100

Posts : 481
Join date : 2016-04-29

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 5:54 pm

James100 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Moeen has tested positive for Covid, and now has to self isolate for 10 days...which would mean he is out of isolation one day before the first test. Seems unlikely he plays with no build up or preparation.

I wonder whether they'll call one of the reserve spinners up to the main squad. Would give a sign of what they're looking at in terms of team structure.

Hi James - tricky one that. Had Moeen been covid free and displayed tolerable form (i.e. a bit better than goose's oft mentioned tin of custard) in the nets or any practice game, he would probably have made ''my team'' as a sort of poor man's Ben Stokes for the sub-continent. Bat him at 6 to give it some welly and have him as the third spinner behind Bess and Leach.

Unfortunately, none of the reserve spinners - Crane, Parkinson and Virdi - could bat anywhere near that high. I would therefore be inclined to leave all the slow stuff to Bess and Leach and maybe bring in Sam Curran for Moeen. This of course assumes Bess and Leach are fit and in some sort of form.

guildfordbat

Posts : 14144
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by James100 on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 6:40 pm

Theoretically (at least until the recent spate of injuries) Sri Lanka's spin bowling is worse than last time England visited, and their seam bowling in a much better place. That could lead to pitches where two spinners are fine, so Leach & Bess should be able to do the job.

Woakes is also isolating due to contact with Moeen, he'll be out of islation a few days before Moeen but must still be some kind of doubt. If he's gone too then SCurran's the only one left who can really bat seven, unless they wanted to bring in Foakes and go with four bowlers.

James100

Posts : 481
Join date : 2016-04-29

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 7:30 pm

Woakes is isolating until he gets test results back I thought? So if he test positives will presumably have to isolate for as long as Mo and if he's negative will be clear to resume training.

1.Sibley
2.Crawley
3.Lawrence
4.Root
5.Bairstow
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Curran/Woakes
8.Bess
9.Leach
10.Wood/Stone
11.Anderson/Broad

I'd guess that's the makeup we are looking at. One of the bowling all rounders at 7, one quick (surely Wood), one of Jimmy or Broad, then two spinners.

king_carlos

Posts : 6379
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 9:13 pm

Not picking Foakes on the subcontinent is a massive and potentially costly mistake, Buttler is simply not good enough.

Soul Requiem

Posts : 3318
Join date : 2019-07-16

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 10:25 pm

Foakes is in the squad but it's already been announced that Buttler will keep in Sri Lanka, then be return home midway through the India tour at which point Foakes will presumably take the gloves.

I'd pick Foakes in all conditions but I've always been old fashioned in wanting the best gloveman.

king_carlos

Posts : 6379
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by JDizzle on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 11:27 pm

king_carlos wrote:Woakes is isolating until he gets test results back I thought? So if he test positives will presumably have to isolate for as long as Mo and if he's negative will be clear to resume training.

1.Sibley
2.Crawley
3.Lawrence
4.Root
5.Bairstow
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Curran/Woakes
8.Bess
9.Leach
10.Wood/Stone
11.Anderson/Broad

I'd guess that's the makeup we are looking at. One of the bowling all rounders at 7, one quick (surely Wood), one of Jimmy or Broad, then two spinners.

That’s a long tail with Bess at 8 and Leach at 9! Just shows how crucial Moeen (or Stokes) is to balancing the side in the sub continent.

Think I’d probably go Foakes for Lawrence in Asia, as mentioned by others. Bairstow to 3, where he tonned up from last time. But seems England have decided. I get the impression Buttler is a more level headed character than Bairstow and wouldn’t have taken it as a personal attack if you took the gloves off him in Asia.

JDizzle

Posts : 5456
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by JDizzle on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 11:30 pm

I guess they could pick a batsmen (or Foakes) over Anderson/Broad - and rely on Lawrence and Root to fill in the fifth bowler overs which wouldn’t be the worst thing if they are absolute bunsens. Bess and Leach are pretty reliable so aren’t likely to throw in horror spells like a wrist spinner might.

Or go Woakes, Curran, Bess, Leach, Stone/Wood. More batting depth and some nice variety with two spinners turning it opposite ways, a right arm ‘holding’ bowler, a left armer and an out and our quick.

JDizzle

Posts : 5456
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 11:58 pm

king_carlos wrote:Foakes is in the squad but it's already been announced that Buttler will keep in Sri Lanka, then be return home midway through the India tour at which point Foakes will presumably take the gloves.

I'd pick Foakes in all conditions but I've always been old fashioned in wanting the best gloveman.

Thought the announcement made it pretty clear there is going to be a lot of rotation (maybe bar Root) for the multi format players throughout the year - to manage workloads with the t20 World Cup and Ashes on the horizon. Will be plenty of opportunities for Foakes and others coming up in 2021

Intrigued to see Dan Lawrence - been highly touted for a while
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 47877
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 12:59 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Foakes is in the squad but it's already been announced that Buttler will keep in Sri Lanka, then be return home midway through the India tour at which point Foakes will presumably take the gloves.

I'd pick Foakes in all conditions but I've always been old fashioned in wanting the best gloveman.

Thought the announcement made it pretty clear there is going to be a lot of rotation (maybe bar Root) for the multi format players throughout the year - to manage workloads with the t20 World Cup and Ashes on the horizon. Will be plenty of opportunities for Foakes and others coming up in 2021

Intrigued to see Dan Lawrence - been highly touted for a while

Hi Olly, forgive the words of an old cynic but maybe just keep in mind that rotation tends to be spoken about more than it actually happens. Quite often, the next match - to go 2 up, to go level, to win the series, to square the series, etc - takes precedence over longer term aims.

Saw Dan Lawrence make what I think was his maiden Championship ton at the Oval. Certainly was a few years ago when he was a teenager. Unflustered approach with a good range of shots. Seemed to go off the boil for a time since then but from reports getting back to and improving upon what was first there. Tall guy, should benefit from a good reach against slow bowling on the sub continent.

guildfordbat

Posts : 14144
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 6:51 am

As I pointed out some time ago it was unlikely England would pick Foakes in Sri Lanka in the absence of a Stokes - they surely need him , or the "old , effective Moeen) in order to allow a fifth bowler by batting in the top six.

Buttler is not occupying the keeping role because he is rated the best gloveman but because Smith wanted him locked into the side... And apparently didn't think he could really justify a spot as a pure batsman. (Ironically his most recent batting form actually suggests he might be developing into a viable number six bat ; but they seem to be reluctant to test that. Maybe when all this pandemic related turmoil subsides we will see a change) But they aren't going to field a team that includes three wicket keepers in the top six followed by five bowlers , of whom only Curran or Woakes could be described as an all rounder.

As Guildford says , nothing is guaranteed. But Root's comments suggest Foakes is at least a chance to get an opportunity in India . One thing of which we can be sure : no matter who is in possession , the England wicket keeping job will always give fuel for pages of internet argument ...keeps keyboard warriors off the streets Smile

alfie

Posts : 13439
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 8:46 am

alfie wrote:As I pointed out some time ago it was unlikely England would pick Foakes in Sri Lanka in the absence of a Stokes - they surely need him , or the "old , effective Moeen) in order to allow a fifth bowler by batting in the top six.

Buttler is not occupying the keeping role because he is rated the best gloveman but because Smith wanted him locked into the side... And apparently didn't think he could really justify a spot as a pure batsman. (Ironically his most recent batting form actually suggests he might be developing into a viable number six bat ; but they seem to be reluctant to test that. Maybe when all this pandemic related turmoil subsides we will see a change) But they aren't going to field a team that includes three wicket keepers in the top six followed by five bowlers , of whom only Curran or Woakes could be described as an all rounder.

As Guildford says , nothing is guaranteed. But Root's comments suggest Foakes is at least a chance to get an opportunity in India . One thing of which we can be sure : no matter who is in possession , the England wicket keeping job will always give fuel for pages of internet argument ...keeps keyboard warriors off the streets Smile

That's an interesting one, Alfie. Keep the pandemic under control by keeping Foakes out of the side! Smile

guildfordbat

Posts : 14144
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 06 Jan 2021, 7:33 am

Good news - no positives from latest round of testing, the rest bar Moeen and Woakes can begin training. Woakes will take another test in a day or two and then they can decide if he joins the rest
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 47877
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 06 Jan 2021, 8:28 am

Curtley Ambrose has applied for the elite fast bowling coach role.


Good news on the tests. I guess Moeen out makes selecting a side easier and avoids the inevitable disappointment that one with him in would bring but getting the right balance for the attack will be impossible now. The seamers will have to deliver something for England to get victories. Bringing in one of the reserve spinners to make up a trio is difficult as none of them can bat. Stokes' absence will be felt.

Having so little red ball cricket in the build up is another problem England face. One thing for those that were in the test squad but Leach, who will have to be relied on as a bulk bowler, has barely played any cricket at all in the past couple of years and none for nearly 5 months.

Its just as well that Sri Lanka are absolutely dreadful.

Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie on Wed 06 Jan 2021, 9:13 am

Relief that no one else has caught the bug... Bad luck for Moeen but in truth he would have been a bit of a "hopeful" selection given his lack of recent matches and form generally.
Two spinners should still be able to get the job done , though they might have to work a bit harder. Sri Lankan batting does not appear strong to say the least.

Note of caution : England will still need to make runs. And they aren't always great at starting tours well so will need to be on the ball from the off despite no real preparation and a few forced changes. Nothing is guaranteed.

alfie

Posts : 13439
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 06 Jan 2021, 10:09 am

Should be noted, Sri Lanka are expecting Angelo Mathews, Dinesh Chandimal and Suranga Lakmal to all be fit for the first test...not 100% confirmed, but they were confident post defeat in SA yesterday. Those would be rather big returns for them, especially on the batting front
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 47877
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 on Wed 06 Jan 2021, 4:18 pm

I'm certainly not dismissing Sri Lanka's chances in this series. Yes, they didn't turn up when England beat them 3-0, but they're well capable of putting in strong performances, as demonstrated in the more recent past against South Africa and New Zealand. England will have to apply themselves in sub-continental conditions - one bad effort with the bat, and England have done plenty of that in recent years, and the series is toast.

It's going to be a big series for Sibley and Crawley, as well as Root who needs runs.

Duty281

Posts : 23319
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 25
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 06 Jan 2021, 7:05 pm

Worth noting that Woakes has had to isolate too so presumably wont have been able to train which narrows England's options further, although he wasn't likely to have been a starter.

It absolutely shouldn't be taken as a given. The win last time was a big deal, and that was with a better prepared full strength side. Sri Lanka cant have got much worse since then, even with a couple of players missing. As noted their "star" players will be available.

Bess and the current version of Leach who's only played two competitive games of cricket in 13 months and took 0/44 in the aborted warm up last winter is not quite the same threat as a confident Mo, Rashid and Leach off the back of crackerjack summer. Taking 20 wickets wont be easy, thats even before worrying about the batting.

Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 07 Jan 2021, 5:03 pm

England warming up by playing with themselves Games likely to be affected by the weather, might be as little as 50 overs each. Far from ideal, I assume they have another lined up before the test starts.

Team Root: Crawley, Bracey, Root, Lawrence, Foakes, Overton, Robinson, Leach, Wood, Anderson, Parkinson

Team Buttler: Sibley, Pope, Bairstow, Buttler, Curran, Bess, Stone, Broad, Mahmood, Crane, Virdi

Woakes and Mo out due to isolating, Woakes has tested clear again but still has to follow the protocol.

Looking at the split of players Id assume the thing is a test side of :

Sibley, Crawley, Pope, Root, Bairstow or Lawrence, Buttler Curran, Bess, Wood, Leach and one of Anderson or Broad

Possible they'd also be brave and play a third spinner in place of one of the batsmen, Curran batting at 5 and Bess 6 does make you wonder (although thats probably more due the balance of batsmen to bowlers in the wider squad)


Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by JDizzle on Thu 07 Jan 2021, 5:17 pm

There could be chance for one of the back up spinners to force their way into the reckoning for one of the Tests here, albeit it is less likely if the game is reduced due to whether as there is less overs for them to stake a case.

Remember when Finn made his debut in 2010, he was a late replacement who forced his way in - especially given the two spin options aren’t the most inspiring.

JDizzle

Posts : 5456
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 07 Jan 2021, 6:07 pm

Gooseberry wrote:England warming up by playing with themselves Games likely to be affected by the weather, might be as little as 50 overs each. Far from ideal, I assume they have another lined up before the test starts.

Team Root: Crawley, Bracey, Root, Lawrence, Foakes, Overton, Robinson, Leach, Wood, Anderson, Parkinson

Team Buttler: Sibley, Pope, Bairstow, Buttler, Curran, Bess, Stone, Broad, Mahmood, Crane, Virdi
 
Woakes and Mo out due to isolating, Woakes has tested clear again but still has to follow the protocol.

Looking at the split of players Id assume the thing is a test side of :

Sibley, Crawley, Pope, Root, Bairstow or Lawrence, Buttler Curran, Bess, Wood, Leach and one of Anderson or Broad

Possible they'd also be brave and play a third spinner in place of one of the batsmen, Curran batting at 5 and Bess 6 does make you wonder (although thats probably more due the balance of batsmen to bowlers in the wider squad)


Hi goose - I'm surprised that Pope has been named in one of the warm up sides. He went on this tour as part of his rehabilitation from his latest shoulder injury with the aim of getting him ready for the series in India. Appears he's making progress to be named for Team Buttler but still doubt he'll make the first Sri Lanka Test.

guildfordbat

Posts : 14144
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 07 Jan 2021, 6:54 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:England warming up by playing with themselves Games likely to be affected by the weather, might be as little as 50 overs each. Far from ideal, I assume they have another lined up before the test starts.

Team Root: Crawley, Bracey, Root, Lawrence, Foakes, Overton, Robinson, Leach, Wood, Anderson, Parkinson

Team Buttler: Sibley, Pope, Bairstow, Buttler, Curran, Bess, Stone, Broad, Mahmood, Crane, Virdi
 
Woakes and Mo out due to isolating, Woakes has tested clear again but still has to follow the protocol.

Looking at the split of players Id assume the thing is a test side of :

Sibley, Crawley, Pope, Root, Bairstow or Lawrence, Buttler Curran, Bess, Wood, Leach and one of Anderson or Broad

Possible they'd also be brave and play a third spinner in place of one of the batsmen, Curran batting at 5 and Bess 6 does make you wonder (although thats probably more due the balance of batsmen to bowlers in the wider squad)


Hi goose - I'm surprised that Pope has been named in one of the warm up sides. He went on this tour as part of his rehabilitation from his latest shoulder injury with the aim of getting him ready for the series in India. Appears he's making progress to be named for Team Buttler but still doubt he'll make the first Sri Lanka Test.

Yeah good point ..so I guess that means Bairstow at 3.

Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 07 Jan 2021, 7:18 pm

Pope is playing this warm up as a batter purely as part of his recovery - he won’t be fielding, or fit for the first test

I’d expect we’ll probably see something along these lines next week;

Sibley
Crawley
Bairstow
Root
Lawrence
Buttler
Curran
Bess
Broad
Wood
Leach

Wouldn’t be shocked if Broad gets one game, Anderson gets the other. Maybe similar with Woakes/Curran, and potentially Wood/Stone (would be good to get a look at Stone if he’s fit I reckon)
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 47877
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie on Fri 08 Jan 2021, 1:23 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Pope is playing this warm up as a batter purely as part of his recovery - he won’t be fielding, or fit for the first test

I’d expect we’ll probably see something along these lines next week;

Sibley
Crawley
Bairstow
Root
Lawrence
Buttler
Curran
Bess
Broad
Wood
Leach

Wouldn’t be shocked if Broad gets one game, Anderson gets the other. Maybe similar with Woakes/Curran, and potentially Wood/Stone (would be good to get a look at Stone if he’s fit I reckon)

That's about what I'm expecting , including the bowler rotation. Though I guess partly depends on what happens in the first game.

alfie

Posts : 13439
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Jan 2021, 11:04 am

Yeah always felt it was odd sending both Anderson and Broad on this tour, but at least means they will both get some cricket in prior to India. Also gives the younger bowlers opportunities to work with them and hopefully learn a bit.

Historically neither of them have had a good time in Sri Lanka, and Broad made it pretty clear he didnt see the point in picking him for the tour last winter so there would be a fair argument for neither playing if England had any other bowlers actually demanding a place. Anderson did have one good tour but that was nearly a decade ago and the other two he ended with two of the three worst averages of any tours he's been on. Curran took 1/50 in two tests last series.

Spinners and sharp pace have accounted for almost all the wickets England have ever taken here. As it stands they are likely to go in with two medium pace plodders, a lead spinner whos barely seen a cricket ball in two years, a second spinner who's about as threatening as a tin of custard, and a quick who gets injured every second test.

What could possibly go wrong!


Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos on Fri 08 Jan 2021, 11:33 am

Gooseberry wrote:As it stands they are likely to go in with two medium pace plodders, a lead spinner whos barely seen a cricket ball in two years, a second spinner who's about as threatening as a tin of custard, and a quick who gets injured every second test.

What could possibly go wrong!  
Have you ever considered a career as a motivational speaker Goose?  Laugh

king_carlos

Posts : 6379
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

guildfordbat likes this post

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Jan 2021, 1:02 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:As it stands they are likely to go in with two medium pace plodders, a lead spinner whos barely seen a cricket ball in two years, a second spinner who's about as threatening as a tin of custard, and a quick who gets injured every second test.

What could possibly go wrong!  
Have you ever considered a career as a motivational speaker Goose?  Laugh

On the plus side Pope who isn't in the squad got a 50 in the warm up today Laugh


Genuine positives ...Anderson apparently managed to produce a snorting ball and apparently Leach is bowling very well despite his lack of cricket. Runs for Root, Crawley and Lawrence

Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos on Fri 08 Jan 2021, 2:11 pm

Typical of Pope to return, half fit and find form immediately. Just looks class whenever I've seen him bat. Hopefully he returns over the winter.

I can see Leach doing well in Sri Lanka and India. He usually finds a rhythm quickly when he bowls and if the pitches offer assistance he can be lethal. Being a finger spinner without Swann's turn or a doosra he can struggle on more docile pitches but when the pitch is gripping he's very good at finding the right areas.

With Pope and Burns missing the runs part for Root and Crawley in particular feels most vital there.

Sibley has improved the top order situation no end by settling but does get bogged down against spinners given he struggles to rotate the strike and doesn't have a release stroke such as sweeping like some taller batsman do against spin.

It would be very timely for Root to find some big scores.

king_carlos

Posts : 6379
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Jan 2021, 2:26 pm

I know he's always been a muscular chap but has YJB stacked a few pounds of Christmas pudding on ? There's a few pictures of him looking "well rounded"

Gooseberry

Posts : 7722
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Jan 2021, 1:00 pm

Trust England weren't hoping for too much from the warm up game ...second day a complete wash out.

Going in with very little preparation so I hope they're on the ball from the start or even a very ordinary Sri Lanka side could be a handful. England's record in first games of a series is pretty awful lately anyway...and a two match series is rather unforgiving of a slow start...

alfie

Posts : 13439
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 4 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 4 of 15 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9 ... 15  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum