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Wales v Scotland 6N Super Saturday 31st Oct 2020

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Wales v Scotland 6N Super Saturday 31st Oct 2020 - Page 5 Empty Wales v Scotland 6N Super Saturday 31st Oct 2020

Post by BigGee Mon 26 Oct 2020, 9:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

Wales v Scotland

6 Nations Championship
Saturday 31st Oct
Parc y Scarlets

KO 14.15


Well Wales and Scotland kick off Super saturday, only 7 months late, but a game we are all happy to see being played at long last.

Scotland started the new session of internationals in much the same vein as they finnished, albeit was against Georgia, who were even more rusty than the rest of the teams and did not put up a great opposition.

Wales, by their own high standards, did not have a great tournament so far, the transition from Gatland to Pivac was always going to be a little tricky and so it has proved. They came up against a French side who were up for it at home and got comfortably beaten last week, for whatever reason, they just don't seem to have quite clicked yet.

One thing is for sure though, they will not relish the prospect of being beaten by Scotland at home, it is a long time since that has happened! They will also be battle hardened by the game last weekend and you can only expect them to improve.

So are Scotland feeling confident?

Well they do seem to be playing to a decent standard atm, but we have been there before and left the principality with our trails trailing between our legs on many occasions. It is and always will be a very hard place to come and win a game.

It will be odd playing in an empty stadium though and you wonder how it might effect both teams. Wales are used to having that very passionate crowd behind them playing at home and no doubt it has helped get them accross the line on more than one occasion.

Scotland have to feel that they have a good chance here, but also have to manage that pressure, something that they have not been very good at in recent times.

It should be a cracking game.

I am hoping for a Scotland team along these lines:

1. Sutherland
2. Brown
3. Fagerson Z
4. Cummings
5. Gray J
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Haining
9. Price
10. Russell
11. VDM
12. Johnson
13. Harris
14. Graham
15. Hogg - Capt

Subs:

Keeble
McInally
Berghan
Toolis
Cowan
Horne G
Hastings
Jones H



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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 31 Oct 2020, 3:53 pm

Why do these silly injury issues always come against Wales??? That backline is mince!!

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 3:53 pm

Ironically, this is exactly the situation where you want Biggar coming on from the bench...

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 3:54 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Why do these silly injury issues always come against Wales??? That backline is mince!!

Physical dominance. Wales have mashed them in the contact.

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Post by 123456789. Sat 31 Oct 2020, 3:54 pm

so it's Hogg at fh, Steele on the wing and Kinghorn at 15??

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Post by tigertattie Sat 31 Oct 2020, 3:54 pm

BigGee wrote:Steele goes to the wing

Rotten to do that to him on his debut in a game that’s on a knife edge

Hopefully with the wind behind Scotland’s back, he’ll be helped out a bit
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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 31 Oct 2020, 3:54 pm

Clear scrum penalty. Apart from one scrum, it's been an area of strength for us.

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Post by lostinwales Sat 31 Oct 2020, 3:55 pm

Lang seems very underpowered

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Post by tigertattie Sat 31 Oct 2020, 3:56 pm

Anyone else think Duhan could be our answer for our number 8 problem?
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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 3:56 pm

Clever by Price. Wales are soaking everything up with ease but offer so little in terms of turnover (scared of Brace) and with ball in hand, keeping Wales pegged back may be enough to win this.

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Post by 123456789. Sat 31 Oct 2020, 3:57 pm

I occasionally made appearances at hooker back at school. I developed the timewasting tactic of kicking the ball out the scrum channel and forcing it to reset for the last 5-10 minutes of a game. Given our newfound scrum dominance, I'd advise that approach now.

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Post by BigGee Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:03 pm

That should be the game

Fantastic defence and a great turnover

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:03 pm

Ritchie easily MOTM.

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Post by tigertattie Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:04 pm

Just shows you what a difference having the wind behind you makes
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Post by BigGee Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:05 pm

18 years of hurt comes to an end

It was not pretty but it matters not

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:05 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Ritchie easily MOTM.

Agreed, the standout player on the pitch for me

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:05 pm

Deserved victory and did well considering to the 2 injuries to Russell and Hastings. Ritchie is class isnt he.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:05 pm

Sums it up. Brace allows 90 seconds for the kick at the end.

Shocking game of rugby but can't claim Wales deserved to win. Not sure Scotland did either, though.

I'd say if you paid for that you were cheated out of a game of rugby, but fortunately no one did.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:06 pm

tigertattie wrote:Just shows you what a difference having the wind behind you makes

The Wind, is that Brace's nickname? Makes sense given how often he's on the whistle.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:06 pm

Superb game management from Scotland at the end there. Good win for them. Controlled the game, dominated the breakdown and had the edge at the scrum. Their attacking maul was brilliant, too, got them the winning score. Only disappointment for them was they gifted Wales 10 cheap points, which could have easily cost them on another day.

Wales did practically nothing all day. Very underwhelming performance.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:06 pm

Another inconsistent breakdown call but well done Scotland.

Terrible game, no improvement in any facet. Has to be curtains for Pivac, or Hayward at the very least.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:06 pm

All the fake chatter on here about Brace being anti welsh. Total fake.
Scots played against 16 welsh on the pitch there.
Scots deserved the win.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:08 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:All the fake chatter on here about Brace being anti welsh. Total fake.
Scots played against 16 welsh on the pitch there.
Scots deserved the win.

Classy, right after the game you post this BS. Scotland were deserved winners.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:08 pm

Something looks wrong with the Welsh team. There's a real lack of...something. Lots of dedication in defence today but when it comes to transitioning in to attack...wow. Really poor. It didn't help that Brace's refereeing killed two key attacks where they were getting over the gainline with simple, up the jumper rugby - one in each half - but it was almost like Wales tried to strip it back today and just play no fuss, no frills rugby and hope their physical dominance over Scotland would be enough to win the game. It was enough to nullify their attack completely, but without a turnover threat - a consistent problem so far in other games - they just allowed the game to slip away. Poor. Really poor game of rugby but Wales just had to have 5-10 minutes of 'going for it' and they would have won.

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Post by 123456789. Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:09 pm

I thought Brace was awful but not for one side necessarily over the other. The game was dreadful, both teams were poor. I think Scotland probably were 6/10 across the board, the South Africans were 7/10 and Wales were 5/10. Still a win away aside from in Rome is huge for us. The game management in the last 10 was very good. Price was generally bad but was very good in the last 10.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:11 pm

It's pretty poor when we're praising the 'genius' of a few percentage kicks to touch in the last 10 (not denying they were good, clever play from Price). When you compare it to the Bledisloe earlier this morning...it's like chalk and cheese. We're miles behind, absolutely miles behind.

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Post by profitius Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:11 pm

Well done, Scots. Well deserved win. clap
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Post by bsando Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:12 pm

A win in Wales! We'll take it!

What a gutsy finish, very good impact from the subs to close out the game and without Hastings or Russell.

Congrats AWJ for his landmark, it wasn't going to be an easy match in the conditions but great day for him making 149 caps.

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Post by Heaf Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:13 pm

Well done to Scotland - not a great game but deserved the win - don't think Brace favoured either side.

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Post by Yoda Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:14 pm

Good win for Scotland, thoroughly deserved as were on top most the game. Thought the ref was good from a neutral pov. How good is leigh halfpenny unlucky to be on the losing side. Jamie Richie was quality very impressed but Wales need to get their props fitter. Tuperic was a big loss as Scotland had too much at the breakdown.

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Post by jimbopip Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:15 pm

When Aldi kicked to touch on 77 minutes 1/2p had one foot a full yard onto the pitch when he threw the ball in.
In the last two minutes The Hardest Working Man put in important tackles on AWJ and Williams! Toonie will feel vindicated.
We won in Wales... I can't remember how we're supposed to feel now.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:16 pm

Sadly, Pivac's rugby has always, always, always been streaky. Long stretches of losing games like that until something 'clicks' and then they blow teams away with impossible to stop rugby.

I'm not sure you can play like that in test rugby. I'm also not sure international rugby gives coaches/players the time to 'learn' that kind of rugby.

Pivac still has grace in the bank but there needs to be an immediate rethink. The players looked like they didn't know what to do today with the ball. That's a fundamental issue. That can't continue. A rethink of tactics and holistic coaching needs to occur. The overall style of playing progressive, positive, passing rugby is good: but it needs to be in a way where the players are actually allowed to compete and play at test level. That was watching 80 minutes of Wales waiting to play with the ball and, because Brace kept scuppering their good field positions, it never materialised.

It's hard to conclude too much from this because Brace was atrocious and certainly favoured the Scots with his interpretation of the breakdown, but Wales need to improve massively. There was a severe lack of understanding out there today, in game management, skill, scoreboard control, and attacking intent. Wales looked comfortable at half time and yet did nothing with that dominance. Poor, so poor.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:20 pm

Also, it was Wales' poorest performance in the 6Ns against the second worst opposition.

It's easy to see the positives in losses v France, England, and Ireland, where the other team is looking to quell and spoil and has bigger and more 'negative' packs, shall we say. But Wales were the bigger, stronger pack today and, scrums aside where it seemed like there was parity until Scotland started running around the side and forcing the dropped scrum, Wales did even less with ball in hand than against the other 3 opponents they lost to. It's acceptable to take positives from defeat v England and Ireland, and maybe even the France game where Wales probably were unlucky as well. But that? No excuses, no positives. Not only a dreadful performance with ball in hand, but Scotland are not a good team. Losing to them should be a wake up call that something is fundamentally not working.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:20 pm

Wales never looked comfortable at half-time. Wales were never dominant. Brace never favoured Scotland.

Spend less time being angry, and more time reading the laws of the game.

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Post by Blueschief Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:20 pm

Well done to Scotland, will raise a single malt to me grandpa, he would have been grinning for a week at the win.
Ref ruined what would have been a good game, he was poor for both sides.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:21 pm

Wales were never dominant in any facet. Poor game to watch but the improvement of Scotland’s forwards is noticeable.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:21 pm

It's all a matter of opinion, Duty. I have to put up with reading a lot of opinions on this site I find ridiculous and I simply ignore the vast majority of them. If you can't deal with someone writing opinions that differ to your own without sneering and talking down at them and believing your subjective interpretation is correct, then maybe this site isn't for you?

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Post by Heaf Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:23 pm

Pot Black Whistle

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Post by TJ Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:23 pm

Great win. some real rugby intelligence from Scotland. Nice to see a ref reffing the breakdown properly even if he did let wales off with collapsing scrums

Hogg has really grown as a captain.

It really does amuse me that some of the welsh fans whinge so much about refs. I thought he was fine and consistent even if he allowed wales to collapse scrums but he did stop them lying all over the ball.

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Post by BigGee Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:24 pm

Some good impact off the bench for Scotland definitely swung the momentum in our favour.

McInally clearly wants to be the starting hooker and all the forward subs rolled up their sleeves and got on with it. Du Prez and Keeble in particular really give us some physicality just as wales started to tire.

Hastings was having a really good game and the injury is a bit of a gutter, could be out for a while as well if he did dislocate his shoulder.

Will Hoggy play at FH in the up coming games?

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Post by Pot Hale Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:25 pm

Brilliant win by Scotland against the multi Grand Slammers and RWC semi finalists away from home. Totally deserved. Kudos to Andrew Brace for keeping his fellow countrymen in check - excellent display.

Hard luck for Russell having to go off - hopefully not too bad an injury.
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Post by BigGee Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:30 pm

Unfortunately the win may have had some cost, losing both our FHs and shoulders and groins do not usually clear up quickly

Still it will challenge our depth even further and we will see how it goes

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:32 pm

The one benefit from this is there's a lot of international rugby to sort this out and develop in something like a club environment.

Although Wales shut out everything Scotland threw at them with ease and consistently stopped them getting any sort of go forward over the gainline - which is a big step up from the porous defence that allowed Ireland and France to score easy, easy tries - that was probably one of the worst Six Nations games Wales have played since the Gareth Jenkins era.

I can think of maybe only a few in 2011 where Wales were worse. Possible the second half v Scotland in 2017, and there were a few v Italy that were shocking as well.

Bad game for Wales. Still waiting for them to actually play some rugby, feel cheated out of a competition there. As poor as Brace was, they should have known he'd do his best to kill the game and constantly blow his whistle. Patchell did nothing from the bench but I think he needs to start games with Biggar coming on. There was no attacking leader out there today and although the back 3 actually played really well and were solid and effective in every action they did, they never had the ball in a positive position.

Pfffffttttt. Rubbish. Incredibly frustrating to watch. This feel likes a bigger step back that Wales could have expected having been 3 points away from a RWC final 12 months ago. So poor.

p.s. dislike this post if u agree xo.


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Post by Hazel Sapling Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:39 pm

Was an awful game for anyone looking to have an entertaining Saturday afternoon. It felt like several of Scotland's recent games against Tier 1 like Ireland in Feb and Wales last year where we had the possession and could not take the chances. At least we managed to close that one out without a recognised FH, it was almost like we had to play practically and we were able to execute it better without a 10 trying to play rugby.

Random thoughts:

Ritchie deserved man of the match, he was a nuisance at the breakdown. Our 8's don't carry well but Watson gave it a good go. Not sure if Tipuric being out swung it our way or would have at least dented it. Wales conceded almost as many penalties as we conceded turnovers and maybe he could have done more to cut down the penalty count.

VDM got one real chance to run and beat three Welsh defenders, hopefully we get to see him running an inside line off Russell. Otherwise, our wings were fairly anonymous though Adams and Williams struggled to make an impact and they have more pedigree. Probably a function of the game more than anything. Frankly, all the centres and wings struggled to get in the game going forward.

Petrus Du Plessis has been excellent for our scrum. It is comforting to think we still have Dell/Bhatti and Nel as third choice pairing at prop. Berghan, for me, is the weak link at the minute and we could do with Rae, Nicol or McCallum rising up the ranks to take him on.

Brown should have been taken off sooner, did not have a good game. McInally was fine bar his one brain fart trying to tackle the nine. We continue to make a mess of our line outs and it appears to be the calling more than anything. We could do with finding a line-out exponent like we have with Du Plessis in the scrum.

One concern is we looked really tired to close out that game and a more confident team than Wales are at the moment might have been able to take advantage

At least against Italy, Weir and P Horne (think VDW won't have qualified?) should be good enough if Russell and Hastings can be ready for France.

Brace was generally consistent. Called almost every line out crooked in the first, called no line outs in the second. Can't complain too much

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:42 pm

A few positives: Rowlands added much needed bulk and looks like he'll be good in the future. Would like to have seen him play under Gatland. Shane Lewis Hughes was a very willing defender and looked strong after the contact, good leg drive. Could very easily be taking over from Moriarty as the dogged 6. Back 3 were all good despite spending most of the game mopping up and trying to make an impact in a scrappy position.

Poor points: James Davies couldn't turn the ball over but he was definitely harshly done by by Brace on several occasions. Leadership was non existent in attack and the 10-12 axis of Patchell-Watkin was anonymous in an attacking sense in the second half. Front row were naive to the Scottish scrum and should have done more than allow Scotland to secondary drive every time and win the penalty, which at times seeemd legit, at times seemed illegal.

Mixed: Gareth Davies was only ok, some good moments particularly in defence but also some loose passes, not great kicks, and also offered no running threat. JD2 didn't really add much class, only ok - kicking, passing, even carrying. Carrying game was good but even with Brace killing them in attack, they were poor clearing out beyond the ball and smashing the likes of Ritchie. Scotland were getting away with sealing off and flopping on the ball carrier a la Schmidtball and although Wales were more 'honest' and more effective in their carrying, their supporting ruck clearers needed to keep own ball safe.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:43 pm

BigGee wrote:Some good impact off the bench for Scotland definitely swung the momentum in our favour.

McInally clearly wants to be the starting hooker and all the forward subs rolled up their sleeves and got on with it. Du Prez and Keeble in particular really give us some physicality just as wales started to tire.

Hastings was having a really good game and the injury is a bit of a gutter, could be out for a while as well if he did dislocate his shoulder.

Will Hoggy play at FH in the up coming games?

I never thought I'd say this, but I'd go with Weir at 10 if both Russell and Hastings are out.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:44 pm

Also Lang isn't very good, and two good tackles does not make Harris suddenly good either. He offers so so little in attack, bar the odd offload.

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Post by TJ Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:48 pm

I would have Weir before Hastings personally

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:49 pm

Well played Scotland a great win today.

Wales having lost 5 in a row now. gave too look very deep in to why they are losing games they would normally win.

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Post by jimbopip Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:54 pm

Just wait, Meatball will have the best comeback since Lazarus.
Actually will there be any games in the next month?

I didn't say The Godfather Of Soul was a very good player: I said that when Wales were trying to score at the end he put in two momentum stopping tackles on two of their talismanic players. Toonie will feel vindicated.

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Post by 123456789. Sat 31 Oct 2020, 4:59 pm

We've got two weeks before Italy and should have enough to get past them with Van Der Walt or Weir at 10 if Hastings and Russell aren't back in time. With any luck, one of them will be back in time for the France game. Touch wood, with a game away in Rome and then two matches at Murrayfield, we have a chance to notch up a few wins on the bounce.

Lang seems a tad underpowered and underskilled for international level rugby. Him and Harris are not going to create anything at international level. I'd have Jones back in a heart beat.

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