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Wales v Scotland 6N Super Saturday 31st Oct 2020

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Post by BigGee Mon 26 Oct 2020, 9:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

Wales v Scotland

6 Nations Championship
Saturday 31st Oct
Parc y Scarlets

KO 14.15


Well Wales and Scotland kick off Super saturday, only 7 months late, but a game we are all happy to see being played at long last.

Scotland started the new session of internationals in much the same vein as they finnished, albeit was against Georgia, who were even more rusty than the rest of the teams and did not put up a great opposition.

Wales, by their own high standards, did not have a great tournament so far, the transition from Gatland to Pivac was always going to be a little tricky and so it has proved. They came up against a French side who were up for it at home and got comfortably beaten last week, for whatever reason, they just don't seem to have quite clicked yet.

One thing is for sure though, they will not relish the prospect of being beaten by Scotland at home, it is a long time since that has happened! They will also be battle hardened by the game last weekend and you can only expect them to improve.

So are Scotland feeling confident?

Well they do seem to be playing to a decent standard atm, but we have been there before and left the principality with our trails trailing between our legs on many occasions. It is and always will be a very hard place to come and win a game.

It will be odd playing in an empty stadium though and you wonder how it might effect both teams. Wales are used to having that very passionate crowd behind them playing at home and no doubt it has helped get them accross the line on more than one occasion.

Scotland have to feel that they have a good chance here, but also have to manage that pressure, something that they have not been very good at in recent times.

It should be a cracking game.

I am hoping for a Scotland team along these lines:

1. Sutherland
2. Brown
3. Fagerson Z
4. Cummings
5. Gray J
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Haining
9. Price
10. Russell
11. VDM
12. Johnson
13. Harris
14. Graham
15. Hogg - Capt

Subs:

Keeble
McInally
Berghan
Toolis
Cowan
Horne G
Hastings
Jones H



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Post by BigGee Sat 31 Oct 2020, 5:04 pm

I am not so sure either will be back, both looked like longer term injuries to me. Hastings was brave not to come off first time he did the shoulder and that may just have exacerbated his injury.

VDW does not qualify till mid November, so won't play the next game

Weir it may well be!

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Post by 123456789. Sat 31 Oct 2020, 5:19 pm

Seems to be that VDW signed for Edinburgh on the 16th November 2017. The reports aren't clear as to whether he was in the UK to sign as Edinburgh went to play in South Africa straight after. God knows when he arrived in Scotland. Could be that he first came up a couple of days before he signed and he'll be eligible for Italy on the 14th, could be that he met up with the team in SA and won't be eligible until after the Autumn Nations Cup. Either way, it makes a bit of a mockery of the qualification process.

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Post by BigGee Sat 31 Oct 2020, 5:25 pm

Here's Johnny!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 31 Oct 2020, 5:27 pm

I'd go so far as to say I'd take Grigg over Lang. I just don't see what he adds.

If Harris must play can he not move to 12, where his total lack of pace will be less costly, and allow us to play Jones or Bennett at 13?

I dont mean to be negative, we've just beaten Wales away, which overall I'm delighted about. Monkey off our back hopefully.

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Post by jimbopip Sat 31 Oct 2020, 5:30 pm

Sam Johnson will be back at 22 soon enough FES. The good Lord Stafford gets older and more experienced every day. Lang hasn't persuaded.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 31 Oct 2020, 5:49 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd go so far as to say I'd take Grigg over Lang

Please stop, I’m trying to be happy that we won in Wales. I don’t want to have to consider which of those utterly underwhelming option is actually the worst!

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Post by George Carlin Sat 31 Oct 2020, 5:50 pm

Obviously delighted with the win - as rare as a Trump apology.

Will try and find full match highlights somewhere.

Graceful chat from the Welsh posters here so thanks for that.
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Post by jimbopip Sat 31 Oct 2020, 5:56 pm

Match highlights? I suspect I'm not the only one on here unable to recall too many.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:14 pm

Congrats to Scotland. It was a stinker of a game really, but it’s good that Scotland have that monkey off their backs.

Can’t work out why we are so flat. I’d expect Wales to be much better at home, different stadium or not. I am not looking forward to next year’s six nations now, with playing the blue teams away. Could be another poor tournament from us. As for this autumn, that’s probably not going to go well either.

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Post by Mcsweens Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:20 pm

Very happy with the performance of Chris Harris - and very happy that Steele didn't have to tackle Josh Adams.

Very pragmatic and clinical at the end, too.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:21 pm

jimbopip wrote: Sam Johnson will be back at 22 soon enough FES. The good Lord Stafford gets older and more experienced every day. Lang hasn't persuaded.

I'm just mildly terrified of a Weir/Lang/Harris midfield. Frankly I'd rather Parks/Morrison/De Luca!!

We need Johnson back pronto!

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Post by Mcsweens Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:26 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
jimbopip wrote: Sam Johnson will be back at 22 soon enough FES. The good Lord Stafford gets older and more experienced every day. Lang hasn't persuaded.

I'm just mildly terrified of a Weir/Lang/Harris midfield. Frankly I'd rather Parks/Morrison/De Luca!!

We need Johnson back pronto!


Can't wait to see the Weir 'fro grace international ruggers.
I will continue to reserve judgement on Lang - not outstanding but didn't see him do much wrong. Obviously, Johnson is preferred!

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Post by jimbopip Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:39 pm

Mcsweens Lang never seemed to hit the line at any angle other than 90 degrees ( apologies to Tigertattie for causing another headache) he never created space for the runners outside him. That may be because he was told to run straight into the first defender in order to create ruck ball but even so for someone who is described as a 10/12 good distributor he was pretty anonymous. Fes will be delighted at the prospect of Meatball with Furra Linee on the bench.

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Post by jimbopip Sat 31 Oct 2020, 6:39 pm

Mcsweens Lang never seemed to hit the line at any angle other than 90 degrees ( apologies to Tigertattie for causing another headache) he never created space for the runners outside him. That may be because he was told to run straight into the first defender in order to create ruck ball but even so for someone who is described as a 10/12 good distributor he was pretty anonymous. Fes will be delighted at the prospect of Meatball with Furra Linee on the bench.

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Post by TJ Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:00 pm

Weir has come on hugely since going south - I rate him higher than Hastings - Hastings runs up blind alleys and gets turned over too often

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Post by tigertattie Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:01 pm

90 degrees to the left or 90 degrees to the right?

I’m not a fan of playing folk out of position. If Hastings and Russell are knackered then it’s weir time. Moving Hogg to 10 isn’t the answer. Nor is putting Kinghorn back to 15.

Weir SJ and possibly even shug as the midfield in two weeks. Harris is still unlikely to be dropped even though he was once again rather poo.

I’d still have duhan and Darcy on the wings and Blair horn can cover back three on the bench.

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Post by Shifty Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:10 pm

Congratulations to Scotland.

In 5 Nations terms Wales have been whitewashed, what a terrible collapse we have suffered. A 2019 Grand slam under Gatland and this 4 loss mess under Pivac.

We are very lucky we have Italy in the tournament to cover our embarrasment.
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Post by jimbopip Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:21 pm

Tigertattie let me apologise for confusing not just you but all the props silently mouthing the words as they read this.
If the DEFENSIVE LINE is a LINE and Fritz Lang runs a LINE which hits it at 90 degrees there is no left or right. If there was we would not be having this discussion.

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Post by Anglobraveheart Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:27 pm

Purely from a 'we finish higher up the table' point of view, I'd like to say "come on Ireland!" and just ask, does anyone know if there are financial benefits from finishing higher up the table? And will the improved ranking points from winning away have a bearing on our next World cup seeding, or have we decided our own destiny but not emerging from the group stage in Japan?

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Post by tigertattie Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:33 pm

I believe there is prize money Anglo. It goes up the higher up the table you are

And yea, much needed ranking points which we need because we didn’t get out the group stages. The win over wales will help massively to avoid being in lot three
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Post by Hazel Sapling Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:34 pm

On seeding, we are in band three already. Wales are in band 1

I thought there would be prize money as I assume sponsorship must have been paid out now that we have completed the Six Nations?

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Post by tigertattie Sat 31 Oct 2020, 8:23 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:On seeding, we are in band three already. Wales are in band 1

I thought there would be prize money as I assume sponsorship must have been paid out now that we have completed the Six Nations?

Nah hazel we’re currently ranked 8th so in pot 2. If we drop out, which was the danger with games vs NZ, SA and importantly Japan who are 9th then we could have dropped into pot 3. Right now we’re still in pot 2
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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 8:24 pm

tigertattie wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:On seeding, we are in band three already. Wales are in band 1

I thought there would be prize money as I assume sponsorship must have been paid out now that we have completed the Six Nations?

Nah hazel we’re currently ranked 8th so in pot 2. If we drop out, which was the danger with games vs NZ, SA and importantly Japan who are 9th then we could have dropped into pot 3. Right now we’re still in pot 2

The bandings have already been set based on world cup finishes. Scotland are in the third band. After ragging on me about rugby earlier you should try to keep up with actual rugby. It's not a good look tbh.

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Post by Mcsweens Sat 31 Oct 2020, 8:59 pm

Jimbo - Lang certainly didn't come across as a distributor, but he didn't get hands on the ball that much I thought. First impression was that he's earned another start. Will re-watch again with protractor in hand.

Please no, no more Pete Horne. We've moved on.

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Post by RDW Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:43 pm

Absolutely delighted the win, and sounds like a good win to have not seen live - sounds pretty stressful/poor quality.

I'll be watching it soon - interested to see what I make of it with the emotion taken out of it!

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Post by lostinwales Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:22 pm

jimbopip wrote:Match highlights? I suspect I'm not the only one on here unable to recall too many.

The Scottish maul that lead to the try. That is about it.

Oh Hastings had a couple of nice little runs. I can barely recall Wales doing anything in attack.

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Post by No9 Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:28 pm

Well done Scotland.. out played us. OK

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Post by tigertattie Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:58 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:On seeding, we are in band three already. Wales are in band 1

I thought there would be prize money as I assume sponsorship must have been paid out now that we have completed the Six Nations?

Nah hazel we’re currently ranked 8th so in pot 2. If we drop out, which was the danger with games vs NZ, SA and importantly Japan who are 9th then we could have dropped into pot 3. Right now we’re still in pot 2

The bandings have already been set based on world cup finishes. Scotland are in the third band. After ragging on me about rugby earlier you should try to keep up with actual rugby. It's not a good look tbh.

Ahh well. At least I can still tell what way the wind is blowing laughing
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Post by RDW Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:59 pm

Thoughts on the first half - all Scotland for most of it, albeit struggling to breakdown a stodgy Wales defence. Smash and grab try from Wales against the run of play but well taken after a nice Faletau kick, but not much from them otherwise. Wales giving away a lot of breakdowns penalties which looked fair to me, and they were deserving of the warning given to AWJ on halftime. Scotland scrum looking dominant, lineout a bit of a mess. No real chances for us other than the Hogg break - he should have known that Biggar always does that on 2 on 1s! Was crying out for a dummy.

Scotland will be disappointed to go in a point down given all the possession. Looking forward to the 2nd half mayhem!

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Post by RDW Sat 31 Oct 2020, 11:03 pm

tigertattie wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:On seeding, we are in band three already. Wales are in band 1

I thought there would be prize money as I assume sponsorship must have been paid out now that we have completed the Six Nations?

Nah hazel we’re currently ranked 8th so in pot 2. If we drop out, which was the danger with games vs NZ, SA and importantly Japan who are 9th then we could have dropped into pot 3. Right now we’re still in pot 2

The bandings have already been set based on world cup finishes. Scotland are in the third band. After ragging on me about rugby earlier you should try to keep up with actual rugby. It's not a good look tbh.

Ahh well. At least I can still tell what way the wind is blowing laughing

Give it a break guys please

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Post by Anglobraveheart Sat 31 Oct 2020, 11:40 pm

Cheers fellas, so, if we are in the pot as tier 3, then that may not necessarily be such a bad thing, depending on whether we draw teams that are on the descent or not.
Could be good. Onwards and upwards. OK

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Post by TightHEAD Sat 31 Oct 2020, 11:54 pm

I enjoyed this game, made me feel I Laugh could have gone on the pitch and not have looked out of place.
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Post by RDW Sat 31 Oct 2020, 11:57 pm

Real dingdong battle of a second half. Scotland's scrum dominance and breakdown work continuing, and it was a hell of a driving maul to get the try! We've been guff at those for years so pleasing to see it become a weapon again.

Not a huge amount between the teams but I think Scotland were deserving of the win. We dominated possession and territory (57/60% respectively, with our territory in the 2nd half being 65%), scrums and the breakdown with Wales conceding a lot of penalties (16-6). They never looked like scoring really which is a credit to our defence which has been excellent all tournament. It was a huge shift by the pack in particular.

What was particular pleasing was our game management when we got ahead. The last 10 minutes we camped into the Welsh half and made some good decisions. This is particularly  good given how makeshift our backline became!

Our bench made a real impact, with the big lumps really contributing. The game was tailor made for the likes of Kebble and CDP and.they had good games.

Won't be remembered for the quality of the game but that's a huge result for Scottish rugby!


Last edited by RDW on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by TightHEAD Sun 01 Nov 2020, 12:00 am

Indeed it was. Well played Scotland
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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Nov 2020, 9:51 am

Thought James Davies and Ryan Elias were crap in this game. And the selection of Dillon Lewis turned out to be a disastrous one as per. I don’t think Tipuric coming back in is the answer either.

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Post by The Oracle Sun 01 Nov 2020, 10:06 am

Congrats Scotland. Obviously and easily the better team. clap

I have to say though, and this probably won’t go down well with the Scottish posters, but that is perhaps the worst I’ve ever seen Wales play. Genuinely. Often when such things are said the response is ‘well we didn’t allow you to play well’. And I get that and often I agree. But was that really a stellar Scottish performance? Not for me.

I don’t post here much anymore but had to come on to vent my frustration with such a poor performance. Can anyone name a worse one by Wales in the last 10 years? Wales were shocking. I don’t think we managed one attacking move in the whole game. Clean breaks? None I reckon!

Have to say it will never be as easy as that for you (Scotland). Pivac and his team need to have a serous think about the type of rugby needed for international level.
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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Nov 2020, 10:16 am

Call Pat Lam Wink.

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Post by RiscaGame Sun 01 Nov 2020, 10:19 am

The Oracle wrote:Congrats Scotland. Obviously and easily the better team. clap

I have to say though, and this probably won’t go down well with the Scottish posters, but that is perhaps the worst I’ve ever seen Wales play. Genuinely. Often when such things are said the response is ‘well we didn’t allow you to play well’. And I get that and often I agree. But was that really a stellar Scottish performance? Not for me.  

I don’t post here much anymore but had to come on to vent my frustration with such a poor performance. Can anyone name a worse one by Wales in the last 10 years? Wales were shocking. I don’t think we managed one attacking move in the whole game. Clean breaks? None I reckon!

Have to say it will never be as easy as that for you (Scotland). Pivac and his team need to have a serous think about the type of rugby needed for international level.

Can't think of a worse one from a first choice Welsh team (at the minute) since Scotland away in 2007.

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Post by bsando Sun 01 Nov 2020, 11:32 am

RiscaGame wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Congrats Scotland. Obviously and easily the better team. clap

I have to say though, and this probably won’t go down well with the Scottish posters, but that is perhaps the worst I’ve ever seen Wales play. Genuinely. Often when such things are said the response is ‘well we didn’t allow you to play well’. And I get that and often I agree. But was that really a stellar Scottish performance? Not for me.  

I don’t post here much anymore but had to come on to vent my frustration with such a poor performance. Can anyone name a worse one by Wales in the last 10 years? Wales were shocking. I don’t think we managed one attacking move in the whole game. Clean breaks? None I reckon!

Have to say it will never be as easy as that for you (Scotland). Pivac and his team need to have a serous think about the type of rugby needed for international level.

Can't think of a worse one from a first choice Welsh team (at the minute) since Scotland away in 2007.

I noticed JD2 had four missed tackles to his name yesterday. To be honest, I don't think it is major panic stations yet for Wales. All teams have "crisis" moments and luckily Wales now have a run of games to try and fix some of the problems they're facing. You have a few ageing players so getting the newer generation through for the 2023 RWC must be a target for Pivac, that'll take some time and some losses. Blues look to be on the rise in the Pro14 and I think Shane Lewis-Hughes and Willis Halaholo are going to help Wales progress. SLH made 22 tackles yesterday missing just one. Not a bad debut for him!

To be honest, starting with losses that result in a progressive transition is better than aiming for a strong winning side straight off the bat. Wales are a passionate rugby nation and their fans are right to expect wins after the Gatland era which was very dominant in the NH. However, it seems as though this sort of consistency won't come quickly and may require some patience from the WRU. Better to let Pivac and his team have a couple of years to settle the squad that was already in transition than heap the pressure on him early doors.

Pre 6N most of us Scotland fans were expecting a dud tournament and would probably be calling for Toonies head had it turned into a wooden spoon or 5th placed tournament. He was definitely under pressure as the game plan wasn't working in 2019. In almost the blink of an eye Toonie has managed to swallow his pride and change things up for the better. It's early days but adopting a more physical defence, losing older heads like Barclay, Wilson, P Horne, Seymour, Reid, Laidlaw and adding new faces to the squad has paid off so far, especially in the pack. Scotland are far from a top four team but it finally feels like some real progress to build on.

Also, Townsend now has 7 wins and one draw from 18 6N games. Cotter had 5 wins from 18 games during his tenure and Andy Robinson had only 2 wins and a draw from his 18 6N games as head coach. It has been slow going but the 6N is finally a tournament Scotland are beginning to find results in.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Nov 2020, 12:57 pm

JD2 hasn’t looked as sharp since returning from injury, Tompkins not really stepping up but that would be difficult for a few of our guys in the current climate. I think we need to consider giving Halaholo his shot, and replace Dillon Lewis with WillGriff John up front. It’ll take a brave man to gut the squad though, and there aren’t that many good enough players at the regions.


Last edited by mikey_dragon on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by TightHEAD Sun 01 Nov 2020, 1:24 pm

If there are not enough good players at the region's then maybe the Welsh players should play more to bring on the ones of a lower as standard.

Regional rugby doesn't work in Wales.
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Post by king_carlos Sun 01 Nov 2020, 3:08 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Thought James Davies and Ryan Elias were crap in this game. And the selection of Dillon Lewis turned out to be a disastrous one as per. I don’t think Tipuric coming back in is the answer either.
Navidi is a big loss for a side under pressure. He's just consistently strong in every part of his game. I really hope he can return from concussion soon.

The tight five feels like the issue though. Elias as you say struggled, loosehead remains an issue and the Welsh locks didn't have great games. I thought Rowlands looked off the pace and AWJ won't go on forever.

There are some exciting players in the backs. Watkins, Tompkins, Williams and Halaholo are good centres. LZR is a huge talent. As you allude to in your post about JDv2 it's difficult for young players to shine if senior players are struggling. Webb/Davies/Tomos Williams, Biggar, JDv2, Liam Williams, Adams, Halfpenny and North. There is plenty of experience to ease the younger backs in but they need to be performing.

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Post by jimbopip Sun 01 Nov 2020, 3:13 pm

I've lifted this from the Glasgow Warriors Forum. It might put Wales' losses under Pivac into a different light.

A note from last week’s WRU AGM,
Wales approach with the Intertnational team was reviewed following the 2019 WC with inputs from Pivac and Gatland. It was decided that the confrontational/attritional approach used in the Gatland years, whilst proving to be effective, also leads to high injury rates. It was determined that whilst effective in the 6 Nations and Autumn games, it was unlikely produce a WC win due to the longer number of matches involved and the higher attrition rate.
Pivac therefore agreed to devise alternative strategies for the game that are intended to produce the results but with lower injury counts. Martin Phillips noted the criticism of Wales performances in recent matches but stressed that we need to give Pivac time to perfect the new style of playing, stressing that brave decisions are needed to build a Wales team to win a WC.

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Post by Guest Sun 01 Nov 2020, 3:34 pm

The only performances I think might be worse are the second string autumn games. The one where we needed a last minute drop goal to beat Japan in Cardiff. Losing to Samoa in 2012. Possibly Japan away in 2013. The game in NZ by the Chiefs?

As poor as Wales were yesterday, the weather hampered the two good attacking positions Wales earned in the first half, and Brace did the rest. I'd say Wales have played as poorly as that, but never the first team, and never in the 'Six Nations', atlhough this barely counts as a normal 6Ns game.

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Post by RDW Mon 02 Nov 2020, 1:06 am

I don't think Wales' outlook is as bleak as the fans think. I know you're used to success - and you have had many years of it! - but it's inevitable that there will be a period of transition given how long your previous coaching regime was in place. Looking at the last two games, you lost to a rampant French team in Paris (as did Ireland), then were just beating by a pretty settled Scotland team whose pack has gone toe to toe with every team they've faced this 6N, in pretty a difficult conditions - not exactly a disgrace.

It's not like you've become a shambles of a team and a complete laughing stock. You have been competitive in every game, you just haven't had the extra experience or touch of class to turn losses into wins. The lack of cohesive gameplan is a worry, but that should come with time, especially as new players have been brought in. They need to get up to speed soon though as your experienced players aren't getting any younger.

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Post by RDW Mon 02 Nov 2020, 8:29 am

Random guy on the internet wrote:
Starting xv yesterday
Wales 727 caps 20 lions test caps
Scotland 432 caps 0 lions test caps

I know that AWJ, JD2 and 1/2P heavily skew this but that's quite a difference!

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Post by Guest Mon 02 Nov 2020, 9:02 am

I think the issue was that - with the best will in the world - Wales lost to a pretty useless Scotland team without barely throwing a punch. Scottish fans won't like it and will obviously take what is a rare win, but it wasn't like the 2017 where Wales simply were caught out by a team that moved the ball around better on the day. Wales dealt with Scotland easily in defence. Even without any sort of turnover threat, they easily nullified Scotland's phase play. What did Scotland produce? One half chance in the first half that came from a bobbling or loose ball that Biggar then shut down with a defensive read. One half chance with Hastings weaving through with ball in hand in the second half. And then the try was terrible maul defence and a simply openside peel that they didn't deal with.

Despite dealing with Scotland very, very easily, and dominating them on the gainline, they didn't offer a turonover threat, and they didn't go for those fabled 'dominant tackles' that would have led to turnover ball and the kind of opportunities that, clearly, Pivac is setting his team up to exploit. With ball in hand in the second half, Wales did nothing, and the sheer lack of competitiveness against a really poor opposition is a worrying sign. But, it's just one game. The bigger worry is that Wales played better against better opponents, but they also look like a team that responds to the opposition rather than putting their own marker down; they'll play better v better teams but still lose. It's not good being a reactive team, then need to actively put their own stamp on the game, and I've said already that the lack of emotional drive and focus is stark now that Edwards' defensive systems have gone. Without that defence identity driving their standards and their self esteem, they look really lost. That looked like a game without fans tbh; that looked like a team with no internal motivation that was simply looking to get through the game and hopefully scrape a win.

Once again, Brace was hopeless and ruined the spectacle, and was definitely harsher on Wales at the breakdown than Scotland, but I also think that consistent trend of losing their leaders, their motivation, and their identity has all been evident for Wales since the first game Pivac had in charge.

If Wales can't even scrape past a team as limited and as toothless as that Scotland side, then there are problems. And clearly they couldn't. There's no nice way of saying it and fair play to the Scots on here, you'll rightly enjoy the win, but it's not the new dawn you might be hoping for. Any team that puts in a bit of muscle against Scotland looks like they'll cream them tbh.

As I said on the Ireland-France thread, we're seeing 'tacticless' rugby in these recent internationals up in the NH. It's almost as if teams are playing on autopilot. And that's hugely worrying for Wales because the sheer lack of standard they have to fall back on from club/regional rugby is evident. There are some nice backs moves from SJ at times and, in time, I can see Wales potentially becoming an absolutely lethal attacking side. But they're absolutely miles off it at the moment. In the same way that France were absolutely hopeless for years at the 'transitions' and basics of the game - box kicking, exits, not compounding errors/giving silly penalties away - it's like the new coaching ticket has completley forgot to fill in the basics of what to do when Wales aren't able to attack a disorganised defence from turnover ball, or how to attack when you can't employ a strike move. That's not a new problem, though - that was true under Howley and Gatland. And maybe they're partly responsible, because, basically Gatlandball covered up that 'what to do with the ball' question in certain situations by going same way, same way, box kick/kick for territory, and crashball.

Pivac clearly hasn't found the answer to that question yet and instead of replacing one system with another, it just looks like they're still getting rid of the old one - getting rid of the inclination to kick for territory and back and aggressive defence, turnover ability, and goal kick to maintain scoreboard pressure, without introducing anything new.

It was a terrible game of rugby tbh and it was mitigated by how 'odd' it is - international rugby without the fans. But even compared to the other 2 games it was poor. Wales looked like a team trying not to lose and content to just keep Scotland at arm's length. Only James Davies was trying to turn the ball over and he had a tough old time from Brace, but he's also not Warburton, he's not someone who'll win 4-5 turnovers a game while getting hammered by clearing ruckers. That's not good enough tbh and that emotional and motivational decline feels like Wales are back to boom and bust rugby, of long losing streaks followed by an upsurge. Maybe it's just the way it has to be, but it's frustrating to watch, and it was frustrating to see Wales go down so meekly to a really poor team (no offence).

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Post by RDW Mon 02 Nov 2020, 9:33 am

I've let it go several times RRB, but your lack of class has been absolutely staggering. Your hatred of all things Scottish rugby is bordering on obsession and it's just bizzare. For weeks you've been coming on Scottish threads telling us how awful we are and why our players are truly dreadful. All the other Welsh posters on here have been very gracious in defeat, as has pretty much every Welsh pundit and journalist - your comments are so condescending, arrogant and patronising it beggars belief.

You make it out that Scotland are a shambles of a rugby team and complete no hopers. Yet we probably should have beaten Ireland in Dublin, had enough opportunities to beat England bit didn't take them, made hard work of it against Italy but never had to get out of 2nd gear. Were right on it with France for the first half before we pulled away after their red card. We then dominated Wales in the scrum and breakdown and got the win in a poor game. All Townsend wanted from that game is a win at all costs and that's what we got. Yes we've got a lot to work on but 3 wins in the 6N is not easy, yet we got it.

The Scotland fans on here have shown remarkable restraint in not rising to you over the last week or so but I've had enough. I've defended you a lot on here - more than you know - but this has pushed me over the edge.

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Post by Guest Mon 02 Nov 2020, 9:40 am

Hatred? That's absolutely ridiculous tbh.

I can see how it sounds like sour grapes but it's an honest assessment. I'm disappointed Wales lost, and I'm extra disappointed because they lost to a poor team. I can hold those two separate thoughts at once without it being hatred.

It's not even close to hatred, that's such a weird claim to make. My honest assessment is Scotland aren't a good rugby team. Just as I constantly said they're not that bad in the years prior to Cotter or Townsend, I'm not going to start pretending they're suddenly top notch now or whatever you seem to want me to believe. That was a poor game of rugby from a poor team that couldn't get over the gainline and in spite of Wales being useless and having a very helpful referee, barely won.

I don't want to be subjected to nonsense accusations about intent, not least from a moderator. Fair enough I could maybe use slightly softer language but then again I don't know how to say 'I don't think Scotland are good and even a poor Wales team shouldn't be losing to them' in a way that isn't going to upset, apparently, you and a few others.

There's no hatred from me. Alternative opinions exist. I'd like to think my opinion will be borne out to be true over time but I doubt that will change anything on here.

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Post by Guest Mon 02 Nov 2020, 9:40 am

Congrats on the win...

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