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France v Ireland Six Nations 2020 Match Thread

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LeinsterFan4life
majesticimperialman
theslosty
Exiledinborders
Gooseberry
Maine man
mikey_dragon
Heaf
Duty281
No 7&1/2
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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 8:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

Another game about to kick off, worth making a thread.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:38 pm

Momentum has now swung right back to Ireland.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:39 pm

May I say refreshing to see the best ref in the world calling consistently in french.

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Post by Maine man Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:42 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Murray and Sexton haven’t been great today. They’re probably the sort of half-backs you’d like to come off the bench for 20-30 minutes. I’ll put my neck out there... Cooney and Byrne should be starters Very Happy

Totally agree. Problem is Murray wasn't dropped back in the spring when he was playing gash so it'll take a miracle now for him to be dropped

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:43 pm

It's the lineout of all things that's killing Ireland.

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Post by Brendan Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:43 pm

I hope next 6 Nations we see the form halfbacks play. Sexton has made terrible calls at decision time.

Let's see how the new half backs go

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:44 pm

A French halfback involved again. Wonderful score.

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Post by Scottrf Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:44 pm

Yassss, that's the title for England.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:44 pm

Come on ireland!

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Post by Brendan Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:45 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:It's the lineout of all things that's killing Ireland.

It's because Leinster can't do a lineout

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:45 pm

Great try for France.

The title surely goes to England now, but then who knows, this game has swung more than...

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Post by Brendan Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:45 pm

Well done England baring a miracle

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Post by Maine man Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:46 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:It's the lineout of all things that's killing Ireland.
Herring is another player who just isn't international standard.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:46 pm

Brendan wrote:I hope next 6 Nations we see the form halfbacks play.  Sexton has made terrible calls at decision time.

Let's see how the new half backs go

This applied 18 months ago.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:46 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:May I say refreshing to see the best ref in the world calling consistently in french.

Yeah he speaks French, English and Welsh.

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Post by Gooseberry Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:47 pm

On this weekends showing these two teams deserve the title more than england

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:49 pm

Scraps o'clock now

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Post by Scottrf Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:49 pm

Gooseberry wrote:On this weekends showing these two teams deserve the title more than england
Strange comment. It's not a single game tournament.

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Post by Heaf Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:50 pm

It's not based on one weekend though ....

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:50 pm

Gooseberry wrote:On this weekends showing these two teams deserve the title more than england

Ireland don't tbh. Nor over the tournament as a whole.

France do, but that game up in Scotland is was ridiculous. Foot = shot to bits.

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Post by Heaf Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:53 pm

That game in Scotland means France don't deserve the title ... it's whoever does best over the whole tournament ...

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Post by Scottrf Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:54 pm

Makes for a much more interesting tournament though having France playing some okay rugby again. Just Italy to get rid of.

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Post by Heaf Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:55 pm

Indeed it is good to see France getting their stuff together again ...

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Post by Exiledinborders Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:57 pm

Gooseberry wrote:On this weekends showing these two teams deserve the title more than england
Really? Ireland are woeful and have been for a couple of years! France are a good side but their ill discipline against Scotland did for them.

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Post by Heaf Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:58 pm

I also think if England had had a warm-up match they probably would have put more on Italy ...

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Post by Brendan Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:03 pm

For Ireland and France in the long term not winning might be for the best.

French squad average age of about 25 really shows how much more growth this team still has to grow.

Well done England

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Post by Gooseberry Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:22 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:On this weekends showing.....
a couple of years! France are a good side but their ill discipline against Scotland did for them.


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Post by theslosty Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:47 pm

Strange match - both sides sloppy and it felt like the players maybe weren't as focused as they would be in a full stadium. If Ireland had a working lineout I actually think we would have won. France have refound their ability to score tries from anywhere but I think they're still a long way from the finished article.

If I'm honest Ireland were very poor in the 2nd half and made the most unforced errors I have seen from us since the end of the Kidney era. However I am willing to accept that we will have days like this as we try to expand our offloading game, plus the weather and the nature of the points difference targets were mitigating circumstances.

Front row seems to be a bit of a problem for Ireland at the minute, once Healy went off we had Ed Byrne, Herring/Heffernan and Porter/Bealham which is not really international standard. Hopefully we will have Kilcoyne, Kelleher and Furlong back soon. Even Niall Scannell at Munster isn't the flashiest player but I reckon his throwing is a bit more reliable than the other hookers, not sure what's happened to him

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Post by Scottrf Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:48 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:On this weekends showing these two teams deserve the title more than england
Really? Ireland are woeful and have been for a couple of years! France are a good side but their ill discipline against Scotland did for them.
They've blown a World Cup Quarter and Grand Slam both by stupidity. Got to be hard to take as a fan.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 31 Oct 2020, 11:05 pm

Well played France, a truly great performance against a lackluster Irish team.

Ireland seem to have gone back wards under Andy Farrell. Too many line out errors, knocking the ball on etc. Irelan more or less gifted England the title of the 6ns.

Is Johnny Sexton the best Fly half in Ireland? He and Murry seems to have the plot when it comes to how to run the game.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 31 Oct 2020, 11:07 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:On this weekends showing these two teams deserve the title more than england
Really? Ireland are woeful and have been for a couple of years! France are a good side but their ill discipline against Scotland did for them.
Ireland were beating NZ around this time a couple of years ago.

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Post by Exiledinborders Sat 31 Oct 2020, 11:16 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:On this weekends showing these two teams deserve the title more than england
Really? Ireland are woeful and have been for a couple of years! France are a good side but their ill discipline against Scotland did for them.
Ireland were beating NZ around this time a couple of years ago.
Sorry. Ireland have been woeful for more than eighteen months. Is that better?

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 31 Oct 2020, 11:17 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:On this weekends showing these two teams deserve the title more than england
Really? Ireland are woeful and have been for a couple of years! France are a good side but their ill discipline against Scotland did for them.
Ireland were beating NZ around this time a couple of years ago.
Sorry. Ireland have been woeful for more than eighteen months. Is that better?
How quickly it all falls apart. Sad

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Post by TightHEAD Sat 31 Oct 2020, 11:39 pm

France are going to be the team to beat for a few years to come.

As long as England don't turn up Wink
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Post by profitius Sun 01 Nov 2020, 1:16 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Well played France, a truly great performance against a lackluster Irish team.

Ireland seem to have gone back wards under Andy Farrell. Too many line out errors, knocking the ball on etc. Irelan more or less gifted England the title of the 6ns.

Is Johnny Sexton the best Fly half in Ireland? He and Murry seems to have the plot when it comes to how to run the game.


Ben Healy is the form 10 in Ireland and Craig Casey the form 9 in munster. Ross Byrnes brother, Harry, is tipped to succeed Sexton. There's also Carbery of course but he is still injured and who knows if he will be back.


They're both past it now. Looked fine against Italy but showed their age against France. I'd be surprised if either made the next world cup squad.


Its not all bad. Here's a missing 15.
Kilcoyne
Kelleher
Furlong
Henderson
Baird
Leavy
VDF
Conan

Cooney
Carbery

Earls
McCloskey
Ringrose
Larmour
Daly

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Post by theslosty Sun 01 Nov 2020, 1:39 am

Think Murray was ok actually, but he's still not close to the player he was 2 years ago. Now, to compare anyone against Dupont is a bit unfair atm, but according to the ESPN stats the French 9 went on 10 runs with the ball in hand whereas Murray only had 1. Murray used to be such a sniping threat and that part of his game seems to have vanished.

Sexton has just lost his running game. I feel some people have this idea that Sexton has always been a stodgy, methodical pragmatic 10 but during the first half of his career he was regularly making linebreaks and running that loop play, particularly for Leinster under Schmidt. He's 36 now and to me his lack of pace is stifling our backline as defences don't have to worry about him.

It's not all doom and gloom for Ireland but apart from Furlong and Ryan I don't think we have enough world class players to be a contender at the next RWC. More 2nd/3rd 6N placings seem realistic as we have decent depth. But for way of comparison, I would have said in the early 2010s that Healy, O'Connell, SOB, Ferris, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, BOD and Kearney were all world class or pretty close. I just don't see that level of talent in the current crop - need the likes of Carbery, Baird, Leavy and actually Stockdale too to deliver on their potential.
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Post by Guest Sun 01 Nov 2020, 8:03 am

Murray's fine. He was never as good as the media hype made him out to be. A good player in a specific kind of game, but not an all round talent. I'm not really sure his performances have changed all that much; the results have changed, and the media reaction, that's about it. He's still good at what he does, still a good test player. Sexton was very good for a period but has had a relatively kind and slow decline since 2016ish, maybe, around that time anyway. He was still able to produce great one off performances, moments, and even back to back games together. It's not as if he did a ROG and fell off a cliff completely, so it makes sense why he was kept around as long as he was.

I also understand making Sexton captain, although I do think there was a case to make Ryan captain from the moment Schmidt left. He wants transition not overhaul and Sexton is the natural leader in the group and ruthlessly competitive.

Murray should be good for a few years still. Cooney is 30, to my amazement, so it's not like the challenger has time on his side. Not sure any of the other replacements are all that hot either, no one's really demanding a place in the Ireland team whether due to provincial or the test/bench performances.

Sexton did ok yesterday I thought. Wasn't terrible. It's easy to read a lot in to these games but it's noticeable how lacking in tactics the NH games have been. It's a massive step down from where they were 12 months ago or even earlier this year. The SH games are clearly much better in standard, but yday NZ put in a tactical masterclass that will have helped given how much Super Rugby they've played. The lockdown has largely taken the tactical side away from the NH games so far, hopefully that will improve as time goes on.

The time to bring through replacements for Sexton and Murray was several years ago. Schmidt never did it, that won't have helped Farrell. There was very much in the way of tactical variety and that reflected in personnel. There's not much sense in making drastic moves now, we're in a weird period and still 3 years away from a WC. It's not vital to pick the 'right' guys now, transition is fine. Murray still has a few years left in him and will likely be a Lion and go to the next WC. Carbery is the obvious 10 to replace Sexton but you just need to find your steady kicker to pair with him when the game demands it. There are several of those options but not sure any of them look top drawer. The big ginger lad playing 10 for Munster looks like a real throwback, a bit like Patchell in Wales. They don't look physically up to test rugby but who knows, give him a shot.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 01 Nov 2020, 3:02 pm

Scottrf wrote:Makes for a much more interesting tournament though having France playing some okay rugby again. Just Italy to get rid of.

What team would replace Italy though? what team/squad is close enough in Europe too take Italy's place?

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Post by Scottrf Mon 02 Nov 2020, 8:39 am

majesticimperialman wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Makes for a much more interesting tournament though having France playing some okay rugby again. Just Italy to get rid of.

What team would replace Italy though? what team/squad is close enough in Europe too take Italy's place?
5 is fine. It's not like it would remove the number of competitive matches.

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Post by eirebilly Mon 02 Nov 2020, 9:22 am

Firstly, well done to England on the 6N title. As long a tournament as it was, they were the most deserved team on a whole.

Now, as for Ireland...

Things have to change. I do not believe that Andy Farrell is the man to lead Ireland, excellent coach but not the main man for me.

I feel sorry for Stockdale, he is a very good player (albeit not played well for Ireland for the last 2 seasons) and deserves some slack. Poor decisions but that is where a coach should step in, he was obviously having a bad day so should have been pulled at half time.

Murray, love the guy to bits but his time at International level really is up. Great player he has been but time has come.

Sexton, still got a bit to offer (perhaps to help settle a new 9 into the Irish side) but he is most definitely not captain material. The way he reacted towards the coaching staff when he was replaced was poor. He too, is sadly at the end of his international career.

Aki, i have always said that i cannot fathom why he is being seen as the best Irish 12. He is a bosh machine and nothing more. Play generally stops at him unless the 13 outside him, steps inside to spread the ball as Henshaw did and Ringrose does.

Doris, silly mistake but understandable reaction. He has been outstanding and a player that only get better.

Beirne, i thought he was the standout player on the pitch. A monster at the breakdown and constantly making ground.
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Post by Pot Hale Mon 02 Nov 2020, 11:37 am

Exiledinborders wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:On this weekends showing these two teams deserve the title more than england
Really? Ireland are woeful and have been for a couple of years! France are a good side but their ill discipline against Scotland did for them.
Ireland were beating NZ around this time a couple of years ago.
Sorry. Ireland have been woeful for more than eighteen months. Is that better?

Ireland have played 23 matches since 3 Nov 2018.

Ita W AI
Arg W AI
NZ W AI
US W AI
Eng L 6N - Feb 2019
Sco W 6N
Ital W 6N
Fra W 6N
Wal L 6N - Mar 2019
Ita W RWC WU Aug 2019
Eng L RWC WU
Wal W RWC WU
Wal W RWC WU
Sco W RWC
Jap L RWC
Rus W RWC
Sam W RWC
NZ L RWC
Sco W 6N Feb 2020
Wal W 6N
Eng L 6N
Ita W 6N
Fra L 6N

16 Wins 7 Losses
70% win rate.
Ita W4, Sco W3, Wal W3/L1, Sam W1, Rus W1, US W1, Arg W1, Jap L1, NZ W1/L1, Fra W1/L1, Eng L3

Not the worst for a woeful team.   Hopefully they improve over the next 6 months.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Mon 02 Nov 2020, 11:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Pot Hale Mon 02 Nov 2020, 11:43 am

profitius wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Well played France, a truly great performance against a lackluster Irish team.

Ireland seem to have gone back wards under Andy Farrell. Too many line out errors, knocking the ball on etc. Irelan more or less gifted England the title of the 6ns.

Is Johnny Sexton the best Fly half in Ireland? He and Murry seems to have the plot when it comes to how to run the game.


Ben Healy is the form 10 in Ireland and Craig Casey the form 9 in munster. Ross Byrnes brother, Harry, is tipped to succeed Sexton. There's also Carbery of course but he is still injured and who knows if he will be back.  


They're both past it now. Looked fine against Italy but showed their age against France. I'd be surprised if either made the next world cup squad.


Its not all bad. Here's a missing 15.
Kilcoyne
Kelleher
Furlong
Henderson
Baird
Leavy
VDF
Conan

Cooney
Carbery

Earls
McCloskey
Ringrose
Larmour
Daly


I'd add for the bench a mix of experience and test development:
Sheehan, O'Sullivan, Milne/Knox, Kleyn, Ruddock/O'Donoghue, Marmion, Carty, Lowe.
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Post by theslosty Mon 02 Nov 2020, 2:24 pm

eirebilly wrote:Firstly, well done to England on the 6N title. As long a tournament as it was, they were the most deserved team on a whole.

Now, as for Ireland...

Things have to change. I do not believe that Andy Farrell is the man to lead Ireland, excellent coach but not the main man for me.

I feel sorry for Stockdale, he is a very good player (albeit not played well for Ireland for the last 2 seasons) and deserves some slack. Poor decisions but that is where a coach should step in, he was obviously having a bad day so should have been pulled at half time.

Murray, love the guy to bits but his time at International level really is up. Great player he has been but time has come.

Sexton, still got a bit to offer (perhaps to help settle a new 9 into the Irish side) but he is most definitely not captain material. The way he reacted towards the coaching staff when he was replaced was poor. He too, is sadly at the end of his international career.

Aki, i have always said that i cannot fathom why he is being seen as the best Irish 12. He is a bosh machine and nothing more. Play generally stops at him unless the 13 outside him, steps inside to spread the ball as Henshaw did and Ringrose does.

Doris, silly mistake but understandable reaction. He has been outstanding and a player that only get better.

Beirne, i thought he was the standout player on the pitch. A monster at the breakdown and constantly making ground.
Stockdale seems to be getting scapegoated on social media, he made a couple of mistakes but the stick he is getting is over the top.

Sexton is a lot closer to the end than Murray surely. I'm still hopeful that if he regains a bit of confidence that we can see something like the 2016-2018 Murray.

Can't agree with you on Aki. To say he is "nothing but a bosh machine" suggests you watch very little of Connacht, he has been really impressive for them post-lockdown. He's being asked to crash up a lot of slow ball but Henshaw is tasked with the exact same when he has the 12 jersey on his back. I think there is an argument our top 4 centres are all better at 13 (Aki, Henshaw, Ringrose, Farrell) - the question is should we be trying a pure inside centre there? McCloskey is probably your best bet there, but I don't think he's as well rounded a player as Aki or Henshaw. I'm not suggesting you are guilty of this but there are obviously some Irish supporters who would like to see fewer project players in the team - there's nothing wrong with thinking that but we should try to keep that to one side when judging these players on merit.

Tbh Doris' mistake was a pretty bad one - I know it was instinctive but he's got to think a bit more clearly there. Agree with you on Beirne, my only concern with him was the scrum and that held up very well until Healy went off. He seems to be very adept at getting over the gainline for a relatively light second row and of course he is guaranteed at least one poach a game at the moment. We look well set at second row at least with the option to rotate Ryan, Beirne, Henderson and Baird.
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Post by profitius Mon 02 Nov 2020, 5:09 pm

Stockdale 1/5
Conway 2/5
Henshaw 3/5
Aki 2/5
Keenan 3/5

Murray 2/5
Sexton 3/5

Healy 4/5
Herring 3/5
Porter 3/5
Beirne 4/5
Ryan 4/5
Doris 2/5
Connors 4/5
Stander 4/5


Heffernan 1/5
Ed Byrne 2/5
Bealham 2/5
Dillane 3/5
POM 3/5
R Byrne 2/5
JGP 2/5
Farrell 2/5


Fairly underwhelming performances all round. They put in 100% effort but effort isn't enough. The subs were poor overall.

Stockdale had a shocker. How many handling errors did he make. He looks good going forward but his errors were very costly.

Murray isn't quick enough anymore. Its time to move on from him. Hes lightening fast compared to Ross Byrne though! Sexton was going alright I thought so why he was taken off is strange.

The starting pack were good and doing well until the subs came on. The game passed Doris by a bit I thought though I might be a little harsh on him.
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France v Ireland Six Nations 2020 Match Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: France v Ireland Six Nations 2020 Match Thread

Post by theslosty Mon 02 Nov 2020, 6:21 pm

Immediately after the match I also thought Heffernan had had a shocker but I looked at the lineouts again and we only lost one on his throw which wasn't actually his fault.

According to ESPN we won 14 of 17 of our own lineouts when it felt way worse than that. Withstanding one or two poor throws from Herring, our problem was more that our mauls couldn't get going or the presentation back to Murray was untidy.
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