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England vs Georgia

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 03 Nov 2020, 8:27 am

First topic message reminder :

I'll be lazy and just half inch the BBC article!

'Back in January, Eddie Jones warned his players of the curse of the beaten World Cup finalists.
The England boss was wary his side could be vulnerable in 2020 after the emotional and mental toll the tournament in Japan had taken.
Jones' concerns looked justified after England were swept aside by a hungry France a matter of days later, a result which scuppered their chances of a Grand Slam.
Given that early setback, it was no surprise to see Jones glowing over a Zoom call on Sunday after England followed the Paris humbling with four straight wins - over the course of almost nine months - to seal a third Six Nations title in five years.
"I prepared the team poorly for the French game," Jones reflected, taking the focus of defeat away from his players, a familiar tactic.
"But their approach to the rest of the tournament has been outstanding, they got on with the job and not looked for any sort of excuse - regardless of what has happened - and played good, tough, hard rugby, which is what you need to do to win the Six Nations."

The title, coming almost a year to the day after the World Cup final defeat by South Africa, further establishes England as one of the dominant forces in the world game.
France, though, were arguably the most impressive side in the tournament and can feel unlucky not to have pipped England to the championship, with Owen Farrell's late penalty in Paris, which grabbed a losing bonus point, ultimately proving decisive.
While no-one can blame England for ensuring they left the Stade de France with something for their efforts, it feels unpalatable that in a great tournament like the Six Nations - where victory is everything and defeat nothing - a side can be rewarded for losing.
Either way, rather than wait until England and France meet again next year, a rematch in the final of the Autumn Nations Cup at the start of December is a real possibility; a clash that could bring priceless profile to the fledgling tournament.


More new faces for Nations Cup?

On that note, it is typical of Jones' mindset that a matter of hours after finally finishing the Six Nations, he was already turning his attention to England's Nations Cup opener against Georgia.
After looking after business in Rome, admittedly in scratchy fashion, what can we expect from England in that fixture, and the Nations Cup as a whole? Selection will be fascinating as Jones juggles with the unprecedented depth he has at his disposal in certain positions.
Wasps' Jack Willis will get a taste of international rugby soon, even though he is in competition with some outstanding flankers, while Exeter's giant lock Jonny Hill has capitalised on Courtney Lawes' injury and George Kruis' unavailability to stake his claim to be a regular partner to the extraordinary Maro Itoje.
It's understood fly-half George Ford will be back fit either for Georgia or Ireland a week later, while it will be intriguing to find out if Jones sees Wasps uncapped pivot Jacob Umaga as a genuine alternative to the Ford and Owen Farrell duopoly at number 10.

England's Autumn Nations Cup fixtures
14 November: England v Georgia, 15:00 GMT at Twickenham
21 November: England v Ireland, 15:00 GMT at Twickenham
28 November: Wales v England, 16:00 GMT at Parc y Scarlets
6 December: Finals weekend - England v TBD, 14:00 GMT at Twickenham

Max Malins is a player who many fans would want to see get a game at full-back, given his brilliance with Bristol since the restart, while Worcester's Ollie Lawrence will be handed his chance to start after making his debut off the bench in Rome.
The playmaking combination of Farrell and centres Henry Slade and Jonathan Joseph struggled to fire at the Stadio Olimpico, with England opting to kick a lot of ball in the first half.
With all of England's best performances in the past two years coming with Manu Tuilagi in the midfield, questions linger over how reliant Jones' side are on the Sale man's dynamism and direction.
Tuilagi is out injured for the foreseeable future, so can the 21-year-old Lawrence, himself a power athlete, fill that void? He surely will get some more exposure over the course of November.
"The game is very much about power at the moment," Jones said last month.
"Particularly for outside backs, you need at least one of those powerful players. Previously we have had Manu, so Ollie has an opportunity there to show his worth."


What it means to win your first cap

Lawrence and fellow debutant Ollie Thorley were both given a decent-length run-out off the bench against Italy, but slipping under the radar was a first cap for Bath hooker Tom Dunn, who came on for the excellent Jamie George a couple of minutes from the end of the game.
At the age of 27, Dunn has had to bide his time. Earlier this year, he had been involved in as many as seven England camps without being capped, and was even placed on standby for a matchday squad in January, before being denied a debut when Luke Cowan-Dickie became available again.
So to see a video on England Rugby's in-house channels of Dunn Facetiming home from the stadium after finally winning that elusive cap, fighting back the tears, would have warmed the heart of all England supporters. Good things come to those who wait.'

Despite the stupid comments about unpalatably playing to the rules from the author this does set out some of the choices to be made by Jones. Personally I think the interesting ones come at fly half and full back. I'd like to see Malins at 10 and Watson dropping back with the introduction of Thorley. Slade to get another run at 12 with Lawrence.

I think we'll see Umaga 10 Malins at 15.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:36 pm

Thoughts oon Ewells?

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:36 pm

I'm not Ewels biggest fan but the lineout is what he's in the side to get working with Lawes and Kruis unavailable, it's looking good so far.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:36 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Thoughts oon Ewells?

Who?

Sums him up for me.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:37 pm

BamBam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Cough.

Sorry?

7.5 is spluttering at Willis first turnover I believe

Yeah...to be fair hes having an all action game...

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:37 pm

Whole pack is going well. It goes a bit pear shaped outside that. New combos though so it'll get better.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:38 pm

I like the early look of Lawrence.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:40 pm

Georgia look absolutely spent already.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:40 pm

How unfit are the Georgians!!?

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Post by Scottrf on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:43 pm

Can we please stop talking about 6 nations involvement for Georgia. They defend okay but offer nothing.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:43 pm

That joseph lad looks class. Reckon he could play in the centre with moves like that. Good from slade.


Last edited by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:43 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I like the early look of Lawrence.

Yes hes playing tidyly...

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:43 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I like the early look of Lawrence.

Decent boot on him too which has surprised me a bit.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:44 pm

Nice little link there from Slade..

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:45 pm

Scottrf wrote:Can we please stop talking about 6 nations involvement for Georgia. They defend okay but offer nothing.

Italy played well today too, finally seem to be making some forward progress. The end of Parisse has helped.

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Post by TJ on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:52 pm

Am I seeing things or muddled? When Georgia had a pen the england player who palmed it back into play was standing off the pitch before he jumped. thats no longer allowed is it? should have been georgia lineout surely?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:53 pm

TJ wrote:Am I seeing things or muddled? When Georgia had a pen the england player who palmed it back into play was standing off the pitch before he jumped. thats no longer allowed is it? should have been georgia lineout surely?

If you're off the pitch and jump back on it is allowed.

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Post by TJ on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:53 pm

Scottrf wrote:Can we please stop talking about 6 nations involvement for Georgia. They defend okay but offer nothing.

above Italy in the rankings

I think a bottom of 6N top of 6N tier 2 playoff would be fair

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:53 pm

I hope we go through a few more phases in the backs in the second half. With Slade, Lawrence, Daly and JJ we have plenty of outside backs with distribution skills to link up.

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Post by TJ on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:54 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
TJ wrote:Am I seeing things or muddled?  When Georgia had a pen the england player who palmed it back into play was standing off the pitch before he jumped.  thats no longer allowed is it?  should have been georgia lineout surely?

If you're off the pitch and jump back on it is allowed.

sure? I thought you had to be on the pitch before you jumped.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:55 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
TJ wrote:Am I seeing things or muddled?  When Georgia had a pen the england player who palmed it back into play was standing off the pitch before he jumped.  thats no longer allowed is it?  should have been georgia lineout surely?

If you're off the pitch and jump back on it is allowed.
Only if you catch the ball cleanly and land holding it. Which was what happened rather than palming it back in. It was then passed back pretty hurriedly as he was overbalancing back into touch.

It's a rule I really dislike.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:56 pm

TJ wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
TJ wrote:Am I seeing things or muddled?  When Georgia had a pen the england player who palmed it back into play was standing off the pitch before he jumped.  thats no longer allowed is it?  should have been georgia lineout surely?

If you're off the pitch and jump back on it is allowed.

sure? I thought you had to be on the pitch before you jumped.

100% sure.

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Post by Scottrf on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:56 pm

TJ wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Can we please stop talking about 6 nations involvement for Georgia. They defend okay but offer nothing.

above Italy in the rankings

I think a bottom of 6N top of 6N tier 2 playoff would be fair
Rankings at that level are more about fixture list. This isn’t even a match.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:56 pm

The 'disallowed' try looks more like a try than the one that was given for Willis.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:57 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:The 'disallowed' try looks more like a try than the one that was given for Willis.

Double movement for me. Think Owens thought it was short though.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:58 pm

Are Georgia worse than Wales

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 3:59 pm

TJ wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
TJ wrote:Am I seeing things or muddled?  When Georgia had a pen the england player who palmed it back into play was standing off the pitch before he jumped.  thats no longer allowed is it?  should have been georgia lineout surely?

If you're off the pitch and jump back on it is allowed.

sure?  I thought you had to be on the pitch before you jumped.
If you catch it cleanly you can jump from outside the field of play.

Law 18.2 (b) tells us that the ball is not in touch or touch-in-goal if “a player jumps, from within or outside the playing area, and catches the ball, and then lands in the playing area, regardless of whether the ball reached the plane of touch.”

It's been a rule in play since 2018 but rarely known about or taken advantage of. The Canes in Super Rugby started utilising it more recently with other NZ Super Rugby sides following suit. More recently Dupont took advantage of it against Ireland.

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Post by TJ on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:01 pm

Thanks for the rule clarification folks

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:03 pm

Daly is better than Furbank

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:03 pm

Weather has turned filthy. Let's forget the backs. Another 8 tries from mauls and drives will do me.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:08 pm

Bar of soap out there now.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:09 pm

Well motm off early. Resting to start next week.

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Post by Heaf on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:10 pm

Should have been another scrum pen for England there

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:11 pm

Will Stuart seems to be securing his place in the 23 now.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:15 pm

If Sinkler doesn't find some of his aggression again the Stusrt will make the 3 shirt his own.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:17 pm

Genge was class as well when he was on.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:18 pm

Yeah I want to see Genge putting in a performance like that against the top nations.

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Post by Recwatcher16 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:21 pm

Will Stuart makes Sinkler look small and he is only 24, which for a test TH is very young, although I might be old fashioned on that front.....if Stuart continues his progression on mobility then starting will not be debated.
Ewels is having a good game - he has played quite a few games at blindside at Bath and that mobility has to prized by EJ.
Willis looks the real deal - Curry and Underhill look out. Then there is Ted Hill to come who could be the most physical of the lot.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:22 pm

Marchant really putting himself around as well. Granted its Georgia but theres a lot more positives than negatives this week.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:23 pm

Whenever England get their game together its seems so easy to get the scores.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:23 pm

Launchbury doesn't have the all round game of Lawes but his attacking maul work is second to none.

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Post by Scottrf on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:24 pm

This scrum and maul practice will come in useful. When does the game start?

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:24 pm

What's the forfeit for a hat trick?

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Post by Recwatcher16 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:28 pm

George has done his thing. Get Dunn on !

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:29 pm

Got to love May, protesting a high tackle after he's ripped the blokes scrum cap off  Laugh

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:31 pm

Recwatcher16 wrote:Will Stuart makes Sinkler look small and he is only 24, which for a test TH is very young, although I might be old fashioned on that front.....if Stuart continues his progression on mobility then starting will not be debated.
Ewels is having a good game - he has played quite a few games at blindside at Bath and that mobility has to prized by EJ.
Willis looks the real deal - Curry and Underhill look out. Then there is Ted Hill to come who could be the most physical of the lot.

6 Curry
7 Willis
8 Ted Hill

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:33 pm

Recwatcher16 wrote:Will Stuart makes Sinkler look small and he is only 24, which for a test TH is very young, although I might be old fashioned on that front.....if Stuart continues his progression on mobility then starting will not be debated.
Ewels is having a good game - he has played quite a few games at blindside at Bath and that mobility has to prized by EJ.
Willis looks the real deal - Curry and Underhill look out. Then there is Ted Hill to come who could be the most physical of the lot.

Curry looks out?

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:36 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
BamBam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Cough.

Sorry?

7.5 is spluttering at Willis first turnover I believe

Yeah...to be fair hes having an all action game...

Try for Youngs replacement should definitely cheer him up

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:37 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:Will Stuart makes Sinkler look small and he is only 24, which for a test TH is very young, although I might be old fashioned on that front.....if Stuart continues his progression on mobility then starting will not be debated.
Ewels is having a good game - he has played quite a few games at blindside at Bath and that mobility has to prized by EJ.
Willis looks the real deal - Curry and Underhill look out. Then there is Ted Hill to come who could be the most physical of the lot.

Curry looks out?
No he meant look out Curry and Underhill because Willis and Ted Hill are coming...

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Post by Recwatcher16 on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:38 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:Will Stuart makes Sinkler look small and he is only 24, which for a test TH is very young, although I might be old fashioned on that front.....if Stuart continues his progression on mobility then starting will not be debated.
Ewels is having a good game - he has played quite a few games at blindside at Bath and that mobility has to prized by EJ.
Willis looks the real deal - Curry and Underhill look out. Then there is Ted Hill to come who could be the most physical of the lot.

Curry looks out?

Could be Underhill who misses out.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 14 Nov 2020, 4:39 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:Will Stuart makes Sinkler look small and he is only 24, which for a test TH is very young, although I might be old fashioned on that front.....if Stuart continues his progression on mobility then starting will not be debated.
Ewels is having a good game - he has played quite a few games at blindside at Bath and that mobility has to prized by EJ.
Willis looks the real deal - Curry and Underhill look out. Then there is Ted Hill to come who could be the most physical of the lot.

Curry looks out?
No he meant look out Curry and Underhill because Willis and Ted Hill are coming...

I'm with you, Ted Hill is the one I want to see, brings raw physicality to that back row. Earl looks more likely to be challenging than Willis for me, his speed is the USP there.

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