F1 2020 Season

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That said id rather the default position be racing incidents unless someone does something dangerous. We do want people to try to overtake even if it goes wrong at times

Oh Sergio - rotten luck! Engine blows with just 3 laps to go.

SC out and this is how the race will finish.

Racing Point seem to be a cursed team at the moment. 2 massive bits of bad luck for Stroll and now Perez.

Could be a lifeline for Albon. RB’s last podium with both drivers since, 2017. Sums it up

Massive result for McLaren in the constructors.

Mercedes garage tells Bottas he has ANOTHER suspected puncture! You couldn't make it up.

Oh well. Another routine win for Hamilton. Another nightmare of a race for Bottas. No luck whatsoever...though he's not helping himself with his poor starts.

A familiar 2nd place for Verstappen. Got the maximum from his car...just not quick enough to trouble Hamilton. Much busier race for Albon. Was looking good for 4th - gifted 3rd by Perez's retirement...but like Vettel in Turkey he was in the right place at the right time.

If he can do the same in the last couple of races he might just save his seat.

Very good race for McLaren. Looked the best of the rest today. Fine drive by Norris and Sainz looked very racy - involved in some good battles. Nice haul of points sees them overtake RP in the constructor's championship.

Good drive by Gasly for 6th - more points for AT.

Renault just hanging in there in the top 10. Need to step up their development.

Overall a pretty interesting race (once it got going). Massive relief that Grosjean emerged relatively unscathed from his awful crash.

Really glad Romain Grosjean survived that monumental accident. Those whom opposed the Halo have just seen the Frenchman walk away from a near certain death. This is the worst accident I’ve seen seen where the driver actually lived to tell their tale.
Hopefully he makes a full recovery but could be the end of his racing career factoring in his young children.

Burnt hands

A terrifying crash for Grosjean. That is the worst crash I have seen in F1 for many years in terms of the car splitting in two, the explosion and the monocoque burying itself into the barrier. The halo which many people were against saved his life as did the fact he was not knocked out and the quick acting medics and marshals. It is a miracle and a testament to car design now that Grosjean had such relatively minor injuries from such a massive crash.

The race seemed like an after-thought but ended like so many others this season - with a Hamilton win. It was interesting to hear Brundle agreeing with my sentiments on the Schumacher V Hamilton debate. He opted for Hamilton as Schumacher refused to allow his team-mates to race/beat him demanding team orders.

CaledonianCraig wrote:A terrifying crash for Grosjean. That is the worst crash I have seen in F1 for many years in terms of the car splitting in two, the explosion and the monocoque burying itself into the barrier. The halo which many people were against saved his life as did the fact he was not knocked out and the quick acting medics and marshals. It is a miracle and a testament to car design now that Grosjean had such relatively minor injuries from such a massive crash.

The race seemed like an after-thought but ended like so many others this season - with a Hamilton win. It was interesting to hear Brundle agreeing with my sentiments on the Schumacher V Hamilton debate. He opted for Hamilton as Schumacher refused to allow his team-mates to race/beat him demanding team orders.

No surprise that the British commentator blows smoke up the British racer’s sails...shock
‘Schumacher didn’t allow his teammates to race him’ biggest joke I’ve ever heard.

Haas has announced Pietro Fittipaldi will replace the injured Romain Grosjean for the second Bahrain GP. Fittipaldi is the grandson of the legendary Emerson Fittipaldi.

Callum Illot has announced he won’t be moving up to F1 in 2021. I’m very disappointed that Ferrari and Haas couldn’t agree a package for the young British talent.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Really glad Romain Grosjean survived that monumental accident. Those whom opposed the Halo have just seen the Frenchman walk away from a near certain death. This is the worst accident I’ve seen seen where the driver actually lived to tell their tale.
Hopefully he makes a full recovery but could be the end of his racing career factoring in his young children.

I don't think so - he can still race for a good few years. His burns were not severe, thankfully and he should be good as new in a few months. He might struggle to get a seat in F1, but he could go into WEC, Formula E or some other category.

It was quite a freakish accident that was largely due to the type of barrier installed at the track. I imagine that as part of the investigation, it will be replaced, either with tyre barriers, or the new(ish) barriers they use at Monaco (just after the tunnel).

I'm frankly amazed that a relatively new circuit like Sakhir was designed with steel barriers - with gaps between the slats. I'd have thought collapsible or cushioning barriers would be mandatory by now. Even concrete is better as the cars tend to just bounce off (though harder on the driver).

Grosjean's crash

Obviously a huge relief that RG is pretty much OK. Shows the effectiveness of the halo and of the other safety equipment (fireproof suits, safety cell construction). The point is though that these are really 'last line of defence' safety features, and if safety is relying on them there are some serious failures elsewhere

1 - Track layout: relatively small run-off area with grippy rein / bitumen surface, leading into a barrier that protruded. Would gravel have been more use to slow the car?

2 - Barrier: A car should never penetrate the barrier like that. Must get rid of sectional metal barriers - whether replaced by the concrete ones as used in the replacement, tyre barriers or some development of the Tec Pro barriers (which apear to also have some horizontal segmenting).

3 - Car breaking and fire: Can't recall a fire like that in a crash since Berger at Tamburello in ?89. Obviously this was a huge impact, but the car failed in a way it isn't supposed to - the safety cell should remain attached to the chassis, with only the engine block and rear axle coming away. Was there something fundamentally wrong with the Haas design, or an existing weakness in the chassis (I assume this was a car that has been used a few times already), or a failure that doesn't show up in the safety tests (allowing that it is not possible to test all possible scenarios)?

dyrewolfe wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Really glad Romain Grosjean survived that monumental accident. Those whom opposed the Halo have just seen the Frenchman walk away from a near certain death. This is the worst accident I’ve seen seen where the driver actually lived to tell their tale.
Hopefully he makes a full recovery but could be the end of his racing career factoring in his young children.

I don't think so - he can still race for a good few years. His burns were not severe, thankfully and he should be good as new in a few months. He might struggle to get a seat in F1, but he could go into WEC, Formula E or some other category.

It was quite a freakish accident that was largely due to the type of barrier installed at the track. I imagine that as part of the investigation, it will be replaced, either with tyre barriers, or the new(ish) barriers they use at Monaco (just after the tunnel).

I'm frankly amazed that a relatively new circuit like Sakhir was designed with steel barriers - with gaps between the slats. I'd have thought collapsible or cushioning barriers would be mandatory by now. Even concrete is better as the cars tend to just bounce off (though harder on the driver).

Grosjean by all accounts is a very wealthy man - investment banker in Geneva before he became a racing driver. I don’t think he’ll carry on. He’s spoken about buying a formula E team and becoming a team principal as well.

Jeff Navarro wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:A terrifying crash for Grosjean. That is the worst crash I have seen in F1 for many years in terms of the car splitting in two, the explosion and the monocoque burying itself into the barrier. The halo which many people were against saved his life as did the fact he was not knocked out and the quick acting medics and marshals. It is a miracle and a testament to car design now that Grosjean had such relatively minor injuries from such a massive crash.

The race seemed like an after-thought but ended like so many others this season - with a Hamilton win. It was interesting to hear Brundle agreeing with my sentiments on the Schumacher V Hamilton debate. He opted for Hamilton as Schumacher refused to allow his team-mates to race/beat him demanding team orders.

No surprise that the British commentator blows smoke up the British racer’s sails...shock  
‘Schumacher didn’t allow his teammates to race him’ biggest joke I’ve ever heard.

Well think about it. Brundle drove when Schumacher drove and was his team-mate so he got to know him better than you for sure. And come on eh? Who can forget the embarrassment of a winning driver being booed on the podium - never heard that before or since. That being when Barrichello had led for most of the race and was ordered to pull over on the home straight to let Schumacher through to win. If you are denying Schumacher lived on team orders where his team-mate was not allowed to race him then you are in denial. Mercedes allow their drivers to race (perhaps why Rosberg won a world title for them whilst Hamilton was there) that was just not allowed to happen at Ferrari.

Bottas is in the 2nd Merc because Rosberg beat Lewis and the team didn't want the drivers fighting each other. whether it's not allowing the 2nd driver to compete or hiring a 2nd driver who can't is splitting hairs

dyrewolfe wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Really glad Romain Grosjean survived that monumental accident. Those whom opposed the Halo have just seen the Frenchman walk away from a near certain death. This is the worst accident I’ve seen seen where the driver actually lived to tell their tale.
Hopefully he makes a full recovery but could be the end of his racing career factoring in his young children.

I don't think so - he can still race for a good few years. His burns were not severe, thankfully and he should be good as new in a few months. He might struggle to get a seat in F1, but he could go into WEC, Formula E or some other category.

It was quite a freakish accident that was largely due to the type of barrier installed at the track. I imagine that as part of the investigation, it will be replaced, either with tyre barriers, or the new(ish) barriers they use at Monaco (just after the tunnel).

I'm frankly amazed that a relatively new circuit like Sakhir was designed with steel barriers - with gaps between the slats. I'd have thought collapsible or cushioning barriers would be mandatory by now. Even concrete is better as the cars tend to just bounce off (though harder on the driver).

I reckon that will be Grosjean finished with F1. Remember he is 34 and his life must have flashed before his eyes with that crash. He realises how mightily lucky he was plus he has a young family to cater for. If he were younger, say early 20s, racing for a better team he'd carry on without a doubt but his circumstances and age are far different.

As for the barriers I think they are steel at that point where there is an exit to a slip road plus it is a part of the track such a collision is never expected to happen so soon after a bend taking the cars away from that section of the track. No doubt they'll now rethink things for thew future though.

GSC wrote:Bottas is in the 2nd Merc because Rosberg beat Lewis and the team didn't want the drivers fighting each other. whether it's not allowing the 2nd driver to compete or hiring a 2nd driver who can't is splitting hairs

Whereas Rosberg readily beat Schumacher when they drove in the same team in the early years of Mercedes. And if that had been the Ferrari years then Rosberg would not have been allowed to race Schumacher- that is the point here.

Comparing the post retirement tour Schumacher to his prime is pointless.

My point is there much difference between not letting the #2 challenge the #1 and hiring a #2 that doesn't have the ability to challenge the #1

Mercedes let their drivers ‘race’ what Craig really means is Hamilton gets favourable treatment. Just got at Germany 2018, Bottas quicker - team orders Bottas forced to remain behind. Russia 2018 Mercedes force Bottas to let Hamilton by.

Given Grosjean doesn't have a drive for next year and doesn't have the backing of either a development team or a billionaire family, I think that's the last we'll see of him in F1. Whether he goes to the US or WEC is up to him - pretty much none of these guys are racing for the money now (certainly none after their first couple of years as a contracted driver), so it's just whether the rewards in terms of enjoyment and winning are worth the risks.

Are there any reserve drivers around the Bahrain bubble, or will Haas need to promote a GP2 guy as the substitute?

Jeff Navarro wrote:Mercedes let their drivers ‘race’ what Craig really means is Hamilton gets favourable treatment. Just got at Germany 2018, Bottas quicker - team orders Bottas forced to remain behind. Russia 2018 Mercedes force Bottas to let Hamilton by.

Embarrassing, Jeff. Haven’t been around recently, so deciding to stir it up?

Bottas is a woeful driver. If Bottas wanted to overtake Hamilton, he could of done it himself, and gone against a team order. Multi 21, remember that. That’s the difference between a compliant B rate driver, and a ruthless champion. Not sure why you are trying to defend Bottas, or even attempt to put him on a par with Hamilton.

The fact is, Schumacher and Hamilton were and are on a level well above their respected teammates. Had and has, nothing to do with favouritism. It’s pure talent and skill, hence why they are seven time world champions, and the rest are B rate drivers/pundits or retired.

Nothing to ‘stir up’. You act like Schumacher was fluking wins and championships. Schumacher was the was winning races stuck in 5th gear. The German didn’t need a car with a 79% win rate to show he was ‘top dog’. That’s the difference between Schumacher and Hamilton.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Nothing to ‘stir up’. You act like Schumacher was fluking wins and championships. Schumacher was the was winning races stuck in 5th gear. The German didn’t need a car with a 79% win rate to show he was ‘top dog’. That’s the difference between Schumacher and Hamilton.

He decided to ram rivals off the track instead.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Nothing to ‘stir up’. You act like Schumacher was fluking wins and championships. Schumacher was the was winning races stuck in 5th gear. The German didn’t need a car with a 79% win rate to show he was ‘top dog’. That’s the difference between Schumacher and Hamilton.

He decided to ram rivals off the track instead.

Yawn...
Hamilton needs the most dominant car in history just to be mentioned in Schumacher’s class.
Facts pretty much prove this.

Jim Clark and Ayton Senna are worth a shout when talking about the greats of formula one.  I am sure there are others in addition to these and Schumacher and Lewis Hamilton that can be discussed.  In my view discussion of who was the all time great is too simplistic.  The sport and the sportspeople change and evolve.  They all had qualities that allowed them to be dominant over others that they competed against.  There are also rule followers, rule benders and pioneers. I suppose this also has to be embedded into the bigger picture of the teams and car and engine designers.

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Nothing to ‘stir up’. You act like Schumacher was fluking wins and championships. Schumacher was the was winning races stuck in 5th gear. The German didn’t need a car with a 79% win rate to show he was ‘top dog’. That’s the difference between Schumacher and Hamilton.

He decided to ram rivals off the track instead.

Yawn...
Hamilton needs the most dominant car in history just to be mentioned in Schumacher’s class.
Facts pretty much prove this.

Facts seemingly bore you, when Hamilton gets thrown out of a whole championship for dangerous driving, get back to me.

Sebastian Vettel is an interesting one to try to judge in the pantheon of formula one greats. He had a fantastic start with Toro Rosso and then Red Bull. His last year at Red Bull seemed questionable. Then at Ferrari he competed for the championship in 2017 and 2018. Then in 2019 he was matched by Leclerc and 2020 he seems to have fallen away. Some say driving styles becomes an important factor when assessing Vettel - having a car that suits the driving style.

Vettel will never get a fair assessment on a British forum because the British media has had it out for him since 2011, and not so surprisingly have gone quiet on the criticisms that came up weekly about him winning in the best car when a British driver does it.

I think with Vettel there was always some (sometimes merited) criticism of his ability to overtake, but should not have been of his ability to drive an F1 car fantastically quickly on a clear lap. I also think his reputation suffered (in the UK media and with some fans) because of being Schumi's countryman, despite them being very different personalities and Seb not being anywhere near as ruthless.

When it comes to legacy, I think he sits in the second rank of champions with the likes of Lauda and Prost, while you have to put Lewis in the discussion for greatest just from his statistics - same reason as Schumacher would be in that discussion.
How you compare their worthiness with that of the likes of Senna, Clark or Fangio, whose claims to greatness are more subjective and who didn't have the opportunity to rack up the statistics in the same way, is a debate that will never have a satisfactory conclusion.

And of course the driving of an F1 car has changed drastically over the years - 50s and 60s was about getting the most from the mechanical grip, then later on about getting the best out of downforce and until the 90s also nursing somewhat mechanically fragile cars. By comparison, modern racing is more strategic, and about getting maximum life and speed from the tyres - the number of races LH wins by selectively pushing for 3 or 4 laps towards the end of a tyre stint is seriously impressive.

dyrewolfe wrote:Oh Sergio - rotten luck! Engine blows with just 3 laps to go.

SC out and this is how the race will finish.

Racing Point seem to be a cursed team at the moment. 2 massive bits of bad luck for Stroll and now Perez.

While Racing Point have rightly been pulled up for some sheer incompetence this year, you are right, they've had some god awful luck too - both drivers getting Covid, Stroll being shunted from good positions twice now, Perez with the technical failures...I do think they are clearly the 3rd best team on the grid, but that race has put pay to getting 3rd in the constructors bar some crazy turnaround.

Lewis Hamilton tests positive for Covid, and misses this weekend.

Step up, Stoffel Vandoorne or Esteban Gutierrez, I suppose.

Nikita Mazepin confirmed at Haas in, 2021. Pietro Fittipaldi at Haas this weekend to replace Grosjean.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Nothing to ‘stir up’. You act like Schumacher was fluking wins and championships. Schumacher was the was winning races stuck in 5th gear. The German didn’t need a car with a 79% win rate to show he was ‘top dog’. That’s the difference between Schumacher and Hamilton.

He decided to ram rivals off the track instead.

Yawn...
Hamilton needs the most dominant car in history just to be mentioned in Schumacher’s class.
Facts pretty much prove this.

Facts seemingly bore you, when Hamilton gets thrown out of a whole championship for dangerous driving, get back to me.

When Hamilton lost the championship to Rosberg he lost all credibility - hence why Mercedes has to get a stiff like Bottas...

Like to see if they could get Russell for a week. That would be interesting.

Large amount of pressure on Bottas now. Be very difficult to keep justifying his seat if he doesn't dominate a replacement

Just John wrote:Lewis Hamilton tests positive for Covid, and misses this weekend.

Step up, Stoffel Vandoorne or Esteban Gutierrez, I suppose.

Nikita Mazepin confirmed at Haas in, 2021. Pietro Fittipaldi at Haas this weekend to replace Grosjean.

Also confirmed this morning that F3 Champion Oscar Piastri will drive in F2 next year...for Prema, which all but confirms Mick Schumacher to that other Haas seat

GSC wrote:Like to see if they could get Russell for a week. That would be interesting.

Large amount of pressure on Bottas now. Be very difficult to keep justifying his seat if he doesn't dominate a replacement

Likely to be, Vandoorne.

Ideal track though for a reserve driver to step in. Technically, not a difficult circuit to get straight up to speed. Wouldn’t expect Vandoorne to be too far off the pace of Bottas.

If it is Vandoorne, it's a good opportunity for him even if he's not driven an F1 car in anger for nearly 2 years. He looked like an extremely talented driver coming out of GP2 (best since Hamilton) but never made the progression expected while driving a rather poor McLaren. Now he'll have probably 2 races in a race and championship winning car to showcase himself.

I reckon Lewis is just bored now and wants the rest of the season off so he can spend some time on his music / fashion / BLM activities.  Also Mercedes may have been wanting to look at potential replacement for Bottas.

Hey - don't look at me like that! You know I love a good conspiracy theory.

On a more serious note, I wonder what Mercedes will do if Stoffel outperforms Valtteri?

Will we see Verstappen on the top step of the podium for the last 2 races?

Nothing, he's contracted and Mercedes have no serious challengers next year with everyone likely looking towards the new regs in 2022. He probably has to win the title next year to keep his seat beyond that though

GSC wrote:Nothing, he's contracted and Mercedes have no serious challengers next year with everyone likely looking towards the new regs in 2022. He probably has to win the title next year to keep his seat beyond that though

Yep. I know the seats for next year are already sorted, but they might be thinking, "New regs - new driver" for 2022. Especially if Bottas doesn't manage a better showing from this season.

I don't think Bottas had much if any chance of being around in 2022 anyway. Lewis will be 37 and seems to commit annually to another season at this point, so Merc need to be prepared to have a new team leader

With Lewis Hamilton testing positive I wonder how he got it and whether anyone else has it in the Mercedes team. Presumably he tested negative before and immediately after the race on Sunday. So he must have caught it later on Sunday or yesterday.

No name Bertie wrote:With Lewis Hamilton testing positive I wonder how he got it and whether anyone else has it in the Mercedes team.  Presumably he tested negative before and immediately after the race on Sunday.  So he must have caught it later on Sunday or yesterday.

Reportedly was tested and negative Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Unusual though to then actually have symptoms by Monday as well as a positive test, as there is usually a 1 to 2 week incubation period. Wouldn't be surprised to see some of the Merc team testing positive later this week or next, as there is a good chance that LH was infectious over the last weekend.

Merc are asking for Russell apparently.

If true, it’s just one of those opportunities, whereby you just have to impress. It’s a gamble, that can go both ways, as being bent over by Bottas, would probably see the hype around Russell disappear, and give fuel to his known critics.

You could even consider Mercedes ripping up Bottas’ one year deal, which is easily done, and financially a small hit, if Russell came in and wiped the floor of Bottas. Mercedes clearly desperate for Russell, as they seem to have overlooked Vandoorne, if these reports are true. Interesting situation.

I'm not so sure. Pressure to not do an Albon perhaps, but being in contention for a podium would be reasonable given he hasn't driven the car.

There is massive pressure on Bottas to wipe the floor with him though. Don't think they'd rip up Bottas' contract and pay to get Russell out of Williams full time but 2022 is a different story

Russell confirms he's driving for Merc while Lewis is out

Jack Aitken will stand in at Williams

Must be pretty likely Hamilton is out for both these races, no?

Agree with GSC - have to consider he’s stepping into this situation for the first time, completely new engineers, situation etc...would be good to see him competing in one of the two races for sure.

Also be interesting to see how Latifi fares against Aitken - as said, the pressure in this situation is really on Bottas and Latifi to soundly defeat their inexperienced younger counterparts...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Must be pretty likely Hamilton is out for both these races, no?

Agree with GSC - have to consider he’s stepping into this situation for the first time, completely new engineers, situation etc

Probably. Hamilton in isolation for 10 days, so touch and go for Abu Dhabi, and obviously needs a negative test.

As for Russell, this isn’t that big a jump as what Hulkenberg faced. He knows the Mercedes hierarchy inside out. He’s used the simulator on multiple occasions, he knows all the engineers, and was reserve driver there in 2018, sitting next to Toto in the garage, the entire season. Might take FP1 to adjust, but given the track layout, he should be up to speed relatively quickly.

Thats one hell of a step up.

On the positive side, there is no serious pressure on Russell, as the season is over as a competition. All he needs to focus on is just driving well and doing both himself and the car justice.

Given he is "Mr Saturday" it would be both hilarious and awesome if he got pole. Although he is going to be pitted against better and much more experienced drivers, so we shouldn't get carried away. Still a hell of an opportunity though - hope he grabs it with both hands.

Merc did enquire about his availability before they signed Bottas for next season, so they have been keeping tabs on him and clearly rate him.

dyrewolfe wrote:On the positive side, there is no serious pressure on Russell

I don’t really agree with there being ‘no pressure’ on Russell. There is pressure on both drivers. Valtteri doesn’t want to get embarrassed, and if Russell drives poorly, or is seen off by Bottas relatively easily, then he’s potentially harming his career.

I’ll predict Russell is right with Bottas. Tbh, if he is the real deal, then he should be, especially on this track.