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Gallagher Premiership 2020/21

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Post by LondonTiger Sun 15 Nov 2020, 10:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

The new season starts next weekend. What are people's hopes and expectations?

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Post by king_carlos Fri 26 Feb 2021, 9:41 pm

That's a good call from Dickson in my opinion. I don't think there's enough interference there to warrant any penalty.

Some finish though.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 26 Feb 2021, 9:46 pm

king_carlos wrote:That's a good call from Dickson in my opinion. I don't think there's enough interference there to warrant any penalty.

Some finish though.
Agree. But I think Exeter needed that throw on target, was just a hair too high. It shows in Rugby, sometimes the narrowest margins can mean the difference between winning and losing....

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 26 Feb 2021, 9:51 pm

Ross is a dirty player, don't thing I saw one tackle below the neck. Pushing players in the back time and time again
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Post by TightHEAD Fri 26 Feb 2021, 9:52 pm

Baxter has a point, clear push from 17.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 26 Feb 2021, 9:52 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
king_carlos wrote:That's a good call from Dickson in my opinion. I don't think there's enough interference there to warrant any penalty.

Some finish though.
Agree.  But I think Exeter needed that throw on target, was just a hair too high.  It shows in Rugby, sometimes the narrowest margins can mean the difference between winning and losing....

Chiefs running short of locks again. Longsdale and then Armand into the second row. Not what you need when your biggest weapon is the driving maul.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 26 Feb 2021, 10:38 pm

The perils of international call-ups hitting Chiefs a bit more in the row. Signing Jonny Gray and the improvement of Jonny Hill is terrific at full strength but means they will be depleted for games such as this. A player such as Mitch Lees has a lower ceiling than either but was available for most the season at a consistently high level.

Chiefs are unfortunate to have their first reserves in Kirsten and Witty unavailable at the same time.

Lonsdale looks a good player to me. I think he could develop into the sort of player Harry Wells should be for Tigers. A very reliable and versatile club player who a top side realistically want to be a good reserve player across multiple positions but not starting big games againt playoff contenders. Starting in the row against Lood is a tough challenge for Lonsdale.

It's great seeing Beaumont back playing rugby after his long layoff.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 27 Feb 2021, 11:43 am

Is the Bristol game not being shown on live TV?

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 11:53 am

It's on BT Sport Extra 2 Mikey

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 27 Feb 2021, 12:26 pm

Means using the red button if you have BT sport through your Sky box.

Should be a good one for a Welsh neutral as a warm pretty much spring day should suit Lloyd and that backline down to the ground.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 27 Feb 2021, 12:35 pm

Yep, red button for me.

I genuinely think Lloyd could be world class if he continues on this trajectory. It would be just him and LRZ in that bracket for us though, I can’t see who else would be there.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 27 Feb 2021, 12:43 pm

I think Costelow certainly could get there but I'm not sure whether the move to Scarlets was a good one. Think that could be the wrong environment for him. A playmaking duo at 10 and 15 of Costelow and Lloyd is the sort of thing Wales could build around for the best part of a decade if they get a couple more years of development first.

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 12:49 pm

I think I might try watching it online so I can watch Ireland v Italy on the TV ... although oddly BT Sport online is claiming it's showing Wasps v Saints at 1:00pm

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Post by king_carlos Sat 27 Feb 2021, 1:09 pm

Arrghh Kini why. Such a good chase as well.

Tigers have started relatively fluidly but that has give Bristol field position.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 27 Feb 2021, 1:19 pm

A silly ruck penalty from Murimurivalu that gave Bristol field position aside Tigers have started OK. Little possession but solid in defence.

Our maul defence was creaking but Bristol are good in that area to be fair.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 27 Feb 2021, 1:51 pm

So frustrating. That try all starts from Jack van Poortvliet hanging an excellent box kick just outside the 22 which has one chaser backing it up. Piutau is good enough to gather and pass at which point most the Tigers defensive line are so disjointed and behind the game they may as well be having a nap.

I try to be positive about the things that are slowly improving at Tigers but employing a kick chase game that frequently lacks competent kicking or a competent kick chase is pretty pathetic.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 27 Feb 2021, 1:58 pm

king_carlos wrote:So frustrating. That try all starts from Jack van Poortvliet hanging an excellent box kick just outside the 22 which has one chaser backing it up. Piutau is good enough to gather and pass at which point most the Tigers defensive line are so disjointed and behind the game they may as well be having a nap.

I try to be positive about the things that are slowly improving at Tigers but employing a kick chase game that frequently lacks competent kicking or a competent kick chase is pretty pathetic.

The second try? Helps that a number of Bristol players start running back to the ball and then stop in unison as a screen. One of the Tigers chasers shoves Joyce out of frustration. Not sure how Bristol managed to get the scrum either that looked like a clear knock on into the Tigers player in contact. Bristol have perhaps benefited from a couple of 50/50s but they are the home team.

Tigers had their chances and Bonilla has often wasted them, his kicking game is awful and his passes inaccurate. There's very little point retaining him. Bristol might have put this game to bed but for Reffell who has been incredible this half, I think three turnovers? Tigers have got to tighten up in the second half, Bristol's discipline is worse but they concede this penalties in less threatening positions and we aren't making much of them.

That Bristol backline is pretty good on the eye and Lloyd is really impressing me with his kicks to touch, he really makes them count and puts Bristol's driving maul in a great position.

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 2:09 pm

I was puzzled about that scrum too ..

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 2:11 pm

Anyway 14-3 is nothing - Irish were down 31-6 at one point I think

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Post by king_carlos Sat 27 Feb 2021, 2:21 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
king_carlos wrote:So frustrating. That try all starts from Jack van Poortvliet hanging an excellent box kick just outside the 22 which has one chaser backing it up. Piutau is good enough to gather and pass at which point most the Tigers defensive line are so disjointed and behind the game they may as well be having a nap.

I try to be positive about the things that are slowly improving at Tigers but employing a kick chase game that frequently lacks competent kicking or a competent kick chase is pretty pathetic.

The second try? Helps that a number of Bristol players start running back to the ball and then stop in unison as a screen. One of the Tigers chasers shoves Joyce out of frustration. Not sure how Bristol managed to get the scrum either that looked like a clear knock on into the Tigers player in contact. Bristol have perhaps benefited from a couple of 50/50s but they are the home team.

Tigers had their chances and Bonilla has often wasted them, his kicking game is awful and his passes inaccurate. There's very little point retaining him. Bristol might have put this game to bed but for Reffell who has been incredible this half, I think three turnovers? Tigers have got to tighten up in the second half, Bristol's discipline is worse but they concede this penalties in less threatening positions and we aren't making much of them.

That Bristol backline is pretty good on the eye and Lloyd is really impressing me with his kicks to touch, he really makes them count and puts Bristol's driving maul in a great position.
Retreating players blocking is par for the course though. Having no defensive alignment in a chase is not. With a decent chase there's not a 15m gap for Bristol to stroll through.

Reffell has been excellent as always. Ollie Chessum and Guy Porter have also impressed.

Our defensive organisation in the outside backs on phase play is much better with Moroni settling as well. He does a similar job that JJ did with England by using his pace to close down space with the blitz whilst being quick enough to still cover the outside arc. I'd be interested to see a Porter and Moroni midfield at some point.

Bonilla has been poor again. Both he and Henry have lacked game management at Premiership level.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 27 Feb 2021, 2:22 pm

Delighted that Whitcombe is getting 30 minutes. He's a fantastic talent.

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 3:01 pm

Well that was disappointing from Tigers, thought it would be closer than that - how many 5m line-outs did they fail to capitalise on?

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Post by king_carlos Sat 27 Feb 2021, 3:03 pm

Ah well. I'd probably have taken holding Bristol to 2 tries at Ashton Gate before the match but Tigers had chances to do more.

McPhillips had his most assured showing yet for Tigers when he came on.

Ben White seemed to have some of his mojo back as well which was good to see. His form dipped and Jack van Poortvliet has justifiably overtaken him but good to see a brighter performance from another of the youngs scrum-halves.

My Tigers MOM would be between Porter and Reffell with hon mentions for Chessum and Moroni.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 27 Feb 2021, 3:10 pm

I think we might see that ref taken out of rotation for next week. Gives a knock on for a Bristol player flying out the line on a two on one. Play goes on, another knock on Tigers scrum. 

Tom Youngs - " was that a deliberate knock on sir?"
Ref - "I don't know"
TY - "we'll check it then"
Ref - " no you have my answer scrum"

Ref seemed surprised Tom Youngs wasn't happy with that response. Only saw it in real time but looked a lot more yellow than then one the Tigers player went to the bin for. TMO was oddly quiet. She pipped up for a review on the Moroni tackle despite sir saying repeatedly Moroni had brought him to ground safely. Honestly it was like amateur hour.

Tigers had chances and wasted them. Bristol scored all their points whilst Tigers defensive leader was off the park bar one penalty. Yellow card a deciding factor. Tigers choice of backs moves in the 22 were predictable and boring, hit up 12 or spin out the back quite frankly most pub sides can run more than that. Choice to go for the rolling maul at the end was stupid, Bristol were defending them really well and being very cute. Just tap and go, mention to sir before hand about the penalty count and how conceding an offside penalty on your tryline is cynical. You then might get something.

At least the Tigers youngsters looked bright once again.

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 3:37 pm

Clear deliberate knock on by Wasps but no yellow - is there some rule against carding players playing against Irish?

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 3:42 pm

Then Irish give away a dumb pen that leads to a try ... mind you that ultimately came from a non-existent knock-on given against Irish

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 4:07 pm

Jeez another sitter blown by Irish just like the last play last week ...

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 4:34 pm

Irish creating lots of chances but not managing to convert them

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 4:43 pm

Irish should have put this to bed ages ago but keep messing it up at the last minute - so frustrating as they'll probably give away a late try to lose it

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 27 Feb 2021, 4:47 pm

Heaf wrote:Clear deliberate knock on by Wasps but no yellow - is there some rule against carding players playing against Irish?

Did they actually review yours?

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 4:53 pm

Not sure as watching two matches as once - ended OK in the end though but much tenser than it should have been.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 27 Feb 2021, 9:34 pm

Just........YES!!!

Win

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Post by Poorfour Sat 27 Feb 2021, 10:03 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Just........YES!!!

Win

Well done Falcons. Though there was definitely an assist from the ref at the end there... how did they not at the very least see Burrell’s forearm crashing into Smith’s head for the penalty it so clearly was?
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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 27 Feb 2021, 10:19 pm

Poorfour wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Just........YES!!!

Win

Well done Falcons. Though there was definitely an assist from the ref at the end there... how did they not at the very least see Burrell’s forearm crashing into Smith’s head for the penalty it so clearly was?

Did you see the abomination refereeing in the England v Wales game ....and not wonder if it exists in the prem?

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Feb 2021, 10:58 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:Clear deliberate knock on by Wasps but no yellow - is there some rule against carding players playing against Irish?

Did they actually review yours?

Looks like they did:

https://streamable.com/xgki8g

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 27 Feb 2021, 11:16 pm

Heaf wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:Clear deliberate knock on by Wasps but no yellow - is there some rule against carding players playing against Irish?

Did they actually review yours?

Looks like they did:

https://streamable.com/xgki8g

More effort than was made in the Tigers game then. I suppose that one can be argued he was contesting in the air and momentum took it away from him. Accidental etc. To be honest could have gone either way. I'd have been less annoyed if they'd at least reviewed the Tigers one and it turned out yeah he tried to catch it but after issuing a soft yellow to a Tigers player in the first half to not even check what looked at real speed to be a deliberate knock on was particularly annoying. It's what TMOs are for.

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Post by Heaf Sun 28 Feb 2021, 12:25 am

Looked a pretty clear intention to knock it away from the Irish players rather than catch it so it was a deliberate action and due to the direction he was facing was a knock-on, so YC for me. As it happens Irish won anyway but as you say it's really annoying when the TMOs don't do their jobs. The internationals are no better either as we saw today in both matches.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun 28 Feb 2021, 5:19 am

Poorfour wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Just........YES!!!

Win

Well done Falcons. Though there was definitely an assist from the ref at the end there... how did they not at the very least see Burrell’s forearm crashing into Smith’s head for the penalty it so clearly was?

We didn't get a lot all game so I was genuinely surprised with this, it was a close one. We got pinged about 5 times in the opposition 22 for holding on, the game should have been put to bed around 20mins before the end.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun 28 Feb 2021, 5:21 am

Looks like Radwan will be out a while with a knee injury, didn't look good. On Quins, your right winger is electric!

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 28 Feb 2021, 12:56 pm

So, let's forget all the emotion about Wales beating England and all the angst that goes with it.
THE match of the weekend kicks off now.....

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Post by king_carlos Sun 28 Feb 2021, 1:14 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Looks like Radwan will be out a while with a knee injury, didn't look good. On Quins, your right winger is electric!
Such a shame. Radwan has rapidly become one of my favourite players in the Premiership. Electric pace and rock solid in defence.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 28 Feb 2021, 1:16 pm

You're racking up donny knights players doc.

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Post by TightHEAD Sun 28 Feb 2021, 1:20 pm

Hooper out
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Post by TightHEAD Sun 28 Feb 2021, 1:29 pm

What's the point of Eddie Jones being there today. He'll just pick the same old failed international players
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Post by king_carlos Sun 28 Feb 2021, 2:23 pm

The majority of England players attracting criticism aren't failed internationals. Most have won multiple Six Nations including a grand slam, made a RWC final, been involved in successful Lions tours and whitewashed Australia down under. Not failed internationals by any stretch of hyperbole.

Several of them are very out of form and/or lacking match fitness though.

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Post by TightHEAD Sun 28 Feb 2021, 2:44 pm

Eddie are you watching Spencer???

Miles better than the failed Young's experiment.
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Post by Heaf Sun 28 Feb 2021, 3:55 pm

Not sure how Saints managed to lose that ...

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 28 Feb 2021, 4:20 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Eddie are you watching Spencer???

Miles better than the failed Young's experiment.

Youngs who scored a try and box kicked well under pressure? Youngs who matched the much talked about Welsh options?

Annoys me Youngs still gets a lot of flak when he's playing well (if he could kindly do that in a Tigers shirt at some point that would be nice). I'd have Spencer on the bench over Robson every day of the week. Spencer has been playing really well for Bath for a while and Robson has shown twice he isn't an international 9. Very good bit of business by Bath signing Spencer.

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Post by TightHEAD Sun 28 Feb 2021, 7:44 pm

Young's who passed a ball into touch 4ft above a winger in the rugby world cup final.

He is rubbish and yet is un-droppable.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 28 Feb 2021, 9:48 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Young's who passed a ball into touch 4ft above a winger in the rugby world cup final.

He is rubbish and yet is un-droppable.

The number of England players who turned up in the World Cup Final can be counted on one hand. He's undroppable because the other options aren't as good. We're seeing it with Robson. "Oh Robson's the best scrum half in the Prem, it's ridiculous Youngs is selected of him". Suddenly a lot of people are back tracking on that and it's now Randall or Spencer that's the new chosen one.

Ben Youngs has more than a hundred caps, has been selected for two Lions Tours. You'd don't get the longevity by being rubbish. He might be a bit vanilla but he's operated at a continual high level for England if not Tigers.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 01 Mar 2021, 5:25 am

Youngs certainly is rubbish, he just has an awful pass. Luckily, passing is that important for a scrum half Whistle

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