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Autumn Nations Cup ... Shambles or Not.

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Autumn Nations Cup.

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Post by No9 Mon 30 Nov 2020, 12:07 pm

Been fun to watch some international rugby this autumn, but on the whole, I think the Autumn Nations Cup has been a complete shambles.

Whats you thoughts...

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 30 Nov 2020, 12:13 pm

With the problems caused by Covid, I think they have done a pretty good job on giving us some rugby to watch.

Cannot vote for any of the options, as not interested in them doing it again (unless we actually have non-6Ns fixtures) but feel it has gone pretty well, despite the quality of the rugby on offer.

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Post by Gooseberry Mon 30 Nov 2020, 12:21 pm

LondonTiger wrote:With the problems caused by Covid, I think they have done a pretty good job on giving us some rugby to watch.

Cannot vote for any of the options, as not interested in them doing it again (unless we actually have non-6Ns fixtures) but feel it has gone pretty well, despite the quality of the rugby on offer.

Yeah agreed. No desire to see the 6 nations scrapped for this but its made the best of a bad situation.

No threats from Scotland to take the organisers to court over a cancelled game is pretty good going Whistle

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 30 Nov 2020, 12:39 pm

LondonTiger wrote:With the problems caused by Covid, I think they have done a pretty good job on giving us some rugby to watch.

Cannot vote for any of the options, as not interested in them doing it again (unless we actually have non-6Ns fixtures) but feel it has gone pretty well, despite the quality of the rugby on offer.

What he said.

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Post by NeilyBroon Mon 30 Nov 2020, 1:09 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:With the problems caused by Covid, I think they have done a pretty good job on giving us some rugby to watch.

Cannot vote for any of the options, as not interested in them doing it again (unless we actually have non-6Ns fixtures) but feel it has gone pretty well, despite the quality of the rugby on offer.

Yeah agreed. No desire to see the 6 nations scrapped for this but its made the best of a bad situation.

No threats from Scotland to take the organisers to court over a cancelled game is pretty good going Whistle

😂
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Post by NeilyBroon Mon 30 Nov 2020, 1:12 pm

I think it's been alright. Good stopgap but very much just autumn tests with some tentative link. The fact they've made a cup and logo suggests they may try it again. I wouldn't complain unless it was at the expense of the 6Ns.
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Post by BigGee Mon 30 Nov 2020, 1:19 pm

Not a bad idea to dip a toe into the idea of having a cup competition in the autumn.

The lack of crowds and the covid call offs are no ones fault and have probably added to the lack of spectacle of some of the games.

Still I like everyone else, I am sure, has been glad of some international rugby to watch. Scotland's game v France was a good international contest if not quite a spectacular and I remain hopeful of a meaningful game v Ireland this weekend.

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Post by TightHEAD Mon 30 Nov 2020, 1:27 pm

Great stuff, gutted Fiji didn't play and would have like to have seen Georgia get a win.

More meaningful than lining the pockets of over hyped SH teams.
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Post by Mr Bounce Mon 30 Nov 2020, 3:19 pm

I for one am glad that it's been put together. We would have had no Autumn Internationals otherwise. It's been a good little tournament. Nobody could have predicted the scale of the covid nightmare, so well done to those that organised in a pretty short space of time.

It's unfortunate that Fiji were hit by so many positive tests and were unable to put out a team, and also that France are governed by their clubs not allowing so many players to play for their country.

In all though, not a bad job considering how quickly it was put together.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 30 Nov 2020, 3:41 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:I for one am glad that it's been put together. We would have had no Autumn Internationals otherwise. It's been a good little tournament. Nobody could have predicted the scale of the covid nightmare, so well done to those that organised in a pretty short space of time.

It's unfortunate that Fiji were hit by so many positive tests and were unable to put out a team, and also that France are governed by their clubs not allowing so many players to play for their country.

In all though, not a bad job considering how quickly it was put together.

I am not picking on you, honest, nor stalking your points.

To be fair to FFR & LNR, the T14 cancelled the 19/20 season then arranged and started the 20/21 season with the expectation of one 6Ns match and 3 autumn games with one against a T2 country enabling some rest. With the warm up against Wales added and now four Autumn matches all arranged fairly last minute it was agreed that some compromise was needed. I understand that the players will not be playing all 6 weeks, to ensure improved player safety.

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Post by Pete330v2 Mon 30 Nov 2020, 3:50 pm

I just feel that with all the disruption that's happened that it would have been more beneficial for the respective unions to focus on the domestic game. Full strength club games would have told a more accurate story in the Pro14 despite the fact that my own side, Ulster has benefitted from it. The players that have been at international camp have been sorely missed by most teams.
It's been an OK tournament, rather forgettable on the whole but with France fielding a 2nd team this coming weekend it looks like ending in farce.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 30 Nov 2020, 3:59 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:I just feel that with all the disruption that's happened that it would have been more beneficial for the respective unions to focus on the domestic game. Full strength club games would have told a more accurate story in the Pro14 despite the fact that my own side, Ulster has benefitted from it. The players that have been at international camp have been sorely missed by most teams.
It's been an OK tournament, rather forgettable on the whole but with France fielding a 2nd team this coming weekend it looks like ending in farce.

Get that completely but it would be losing money for the unions and they really can't afford to do that.

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Post by Guest Mon 30 Nov 2020, 4:35 pm

Shambles is a bit harsh but they need to have a thorough review in why they excluded Japan and included Fiji when, evidently, there were safety issues with that decision (travelling from literally the other side of the world, through multiple airports etc).

It is what it is. Rugby is poor without fans, the standard of play is poor, but then we can't get the SANZAR teams up here. Shambles has been a bit strong but it hasn't been particularly enjoyable to watch.

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 30 Nov 2020, 4:38 pm

Japan withdrew because of travel restrictions, they were not excluded.

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Post by Guest Mon 30 Nov 2020, 4:48 pm

I'm well aware of that Soul. They were still excluded from the tournament.

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 30 Nov 2020, 4:54 pm

Withdrew and excluded are not the same thing, bless.

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Post by Guest Mon 30 Nov 2020, 4:56 pm

Good weekend, Soul?

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 30 Nov 2020, 5:44 pm

Diverting already, that didn't take long.

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Post by RiscaGame Mon 30 Nov 2020, 7:38 pm

One thing I found a bit strange, is that Wales v Italy is later than Ireland v Scotland. The way the games are set up, it seems as if they’re in the order they’re meant to be, ie Georgia v Fiji first and England v France last.

I’m not sure I would want to repeat it again, but then again Wales play four matches per Autumn anyway, so it doesn’t really matter.

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 30 Nov 2020, 8:15 pm

I agree with most of the main themes here: Glad to see some Internationals, but the quality of play is not great, almost as if teams are not really that interested (though if I were collecting their game cheque, I would probably tackle my mother). I think these games are important, not for bragging rights which will probably be forgotten by this time next year, but rather for the money being brought in, a lot of which goes to the grass roots which are struggling.

The down side is the amount of matches played in the (insane) 2020-2021 season. We probably won't see the medical issues cropping up significantly until after the holidays, but I have to believe the body count will not be good.

I don't like sport without the fans in the stands. Makes the sport seem a bit sterile. And I don't like the artificial crowd noise either. I would prefer to hear the players, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Would make it a different experience, but this is still 2020, the year when everything is f**ked. So let's do something a bit different and see how it goes.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 30 Nov 2020, 8:24 pm

Well, it's all about the money, money, money, in actual fact. The quality of rugby is secondary.

I'm really concerned about the fixture pile-up and the impact it will have on players' fitness, long-term health, and their ability to play the game at the highest level.

Pre-Covid, the calendar had too many games, but it was just about manageable. Now it will reach absurd levels over the next 12 months.

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Post by tigertattie Tue 01 Dec 2020, 12:55 pm

Not a shambles at all.

The organisers did very well given the current situation. It's a format that should be looked at longer term. The important thing would be for it to hold its value, to include international teams that can fully commit to the tournament.

The things to remember are:
The Autumn nations cup was preceded by the finishing of the 6Ns and some opening friendlies
Japan decided not to take part
Fiji were added late on (as most of their players are based in Europe)
It was essentially a European competition to replace the SH teams to stop intercontinental travel (teams based here went home pretty much the day after a game)

Next year the 6Ns will (hopefully) go ahead and complete as normal then in the autumn (after the world has hopefully been vaccinated) we could see a competition made up of for example:
Autumn Nations Cup ... Shambles or Not. Captur10


The same format but with no 6Ns games or warmups in the way and you are right into the competition. Each time plays each other then then plays the other team that finished in the opposite group. You could then (if you wanted) have these winning two sides from the table toping games getting a reward of a last game against each other to decide a winner.

The following year you mix up the groups so that England would switch with Ireland and Samoa would switch with Canada for example to get everyone playing everyone. The 4 “home nations” sides could easily accommodate two matches in their stadiums over a sat/sun or you could have the Japan vs US game in Newcastle’s ground for example.  

I’ve deliberately left out France until they can commit to fielding a full team each round without their clubs moaning. If they get sorted then you could drop poor old Canada

If it’s too much then go back to two groups and rotate the Sanzar teams in and out each year.
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Post by LondonTiger Tue 01 Dec 2020, 3:12 pm

doctor_grey wrote:I agree with most of the main themes here:  Glad to see some Internationals, but the quality of play is not great, almost as if teams are not really that interested (though if I were collecting their game cheque, I would probably tackle my mother).  I think these games are important, not for bragging rights which will probably be forgotten by this time next year, but rather for the money being brought in, a lot of which goes to the grass roots which are struggling.  

The down side is the amount of matches played in the (insane) 2020-2021 season.   We probably won't see the medical issues cropping up significantly until after the holidays, but I have to believe the body count will not be good.  

I don't like sport without the fans in the stands.  Makes the sport seem a bit sterile.  And I don't like the artificial crowd noise either.  I would prefer to hear the players, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Would make it a different experience, but this is still 2020, the year when everything is f**ked.  So let's do something a bit different and see how it goes.    

You could turn off the fake crowd on Amazon, but I found the result even more sterile.

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Post by Irish Londoner Tue 01 Dec 2020, 4:26 pm

Not sure about holding it as a competition year on year but I would like to see some sort of commitment from the 6N teams to give Georgia and other NH emerging nations a test either at home or away each year.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 05 Dec 2020, 1:26 pm

If Vern Cotter can continue this discipline,  maintain their flare players and are given plenty of games...Fiji will be a right handful!!!

Huge bruising forwards who now love clearing out and rucking...and huge flying backs with outrageous skills...

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Post by Cyril Sat 05 Dec 2020, 1:39 pm

It’s been a reasonable tournament in the circumstances, but hoping that France give England a good game tomorrow. It’s felt like a bit of a procession so far with England not in danger in any of the games. A good test would stand them in good stead and probably more important than winning the tournament.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 05 Dec 2020, 1:58 pm

Having just watched the Fiji v Georgia game, it certainly not been boring at all.
It is just a shame Fiji could not play more of a part in this tournament.

They (Fiji) take 7th place, if they could pf played ,more games they mighty of been playing for a higher spot.

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Post by westisbest Sat 05 Dec 2020, 2:17 pm

It’s good to see some international rugby at least. Standards haven't been great at times. Not the same without the supporters.

Fixture pile up will be an issue. With the Lions tour in the summer, hopefully there will be no, or at least not to many players put due to injury.

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Post by bsando Sun 06 Dec 2020, 4:52 pm

Shame Japan couldn't be involved and the nFiji but otherwise it has been good to have some internationals. Hopefully crowds will be a possibility for the 6N though because that would be a flat tournament otherwise. I'll still watch of course but the 6N is all about atmosphere.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 07 Dec 2020, 11:03 am

Ending with a Penalty shoot out would have been "fun".

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Post by The Oracle Mon 07 Dec 2020, 11:09 am

Wouldn't call it a shambles. Enjoyed it overall. Definitely worthwhile rather than not playing at all.
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Post by Brendan Tue 08 Dec 2020, 12:49 am

It served its purpose which was to generate money.

Not a fan of this going forward unless well managed as seems like the nations cup in disguise.

Happy for more T2 teams to get more T1 games but it can't always be the 6N teams doing it in the AIs while the SH teams only host T1 nations for the most part (SA the exception).

Hopefully shows Georgia aren't ready for 6N but do need more games against NH & SH opposition.
Fiji did good against the weakest team so hard to judge.

Rugby Championship need to decide if they are going to 6 teams as was discussed in the nations cup or WR need to have a legitment non-European T2 annual tournament. Currently Japan, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and Namibia have poor annual competitions that do nothing for development of playing standards. The Americas are doing their 6 nations which hopefully will help them (though not as strong as the B6N)

European T2 is a dogfight (apart from Georgia) where teams like German fall when bad and look to be going down to T4 of European Rugby. Rominia are bottom of T2. On the other hand Nambia sweep the Gold Cup while falling behind every other T2 nation.

So things like the ANC might work for both AIs and Summer windows but not if only for the AIs.

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