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Post by geoff999rugby Thu 18 Feb 2021, 1:13 pm

Interested in who the various Irish provinces will have on their books next year who are NIQ or only qualify through residency

I'll start with Ulster

NIQ - Nakarawa, Carter
Residency - None

Assumes Faddes, Ludik and Matthewson are all away - a fairly safe bet I'd say

What is the situation elsewhere?

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Post by profitius Sat 20 Feb 2021, 2:59 pm

Munster
NIQ: De Allende, Snyman, Salanoa
Residency: Cloete, Stander, Kleyn, Knox, Marshall,

Marshall, Stander are out of contract.


Last edited by profitius on Sat 20 Feb 2021, 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Maine man Sat 20 Feb 2021, 3:15 pm

Stander's contract finishes this year? Never knew that. There were links earlier in the season with him moving to France. I'd assume he'll be offered a central contract.

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Post by geoff999rugby Mon 22 Feb 2021, 9:56 am

Thanks for the Munster update - appreciated.

That's a lot of players !
I understand Marshalls contract is unlikely to be renewed

Stander is in the same boat as Henderson - CC update to be announced

For Leinster I think it is:

NIQ - The Georgian prop and Fardy (is he staying?)
Residency - Lowe, Gibson-Park

Have I missed anybody

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon 22 Feb 2021, 3:48 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Thanks for the Munster update - appreciated.

That's a lot of players !
I understand Marshalls contract is unlikely to be renewed

Stander is in the same boat as Henderson - CC update to be announced

For Leinster I think it is:

NIQ - The Georgian prop and Fardy (is he staying?)
Residency - Lowe, Gibson-Park

Have I missed anybody
Georgian prop? Are you talking about Vakh Abdaladazh, he's been in Ireland since he was 5. Fardy is leaving.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 23 Feb 2021, 9:41 am

That's the fellow.

Mixed him up with someone else, who has played for Georgia, so he is a Residency player.
So to summarise Leinster will go in to next season with 3 Residency player and No NIQ

What stands out for me is the extent that Leinster and Ulster have reduced their non Irish connections list to such small numbers, 3 and 2 respectively.

I would also be interested in the qualification via a grandparent if anyone one knows the Leinster, Munster names that would be appreciated.
For Ulster there are 4 - Milasinovich, Herring, Reidy and Burns.

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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 23 Feb 2021, 11:10 am

The Independent are reporting that Leinster are targeting Crusaders tighthead Isileli Tu'ungafasi, the brother of All Black Ofa. Obviously Furlong and Porter will be in Ireland camp and/or player management for large parts of the season which would explain why they're looking for a TH. How do the Leinster lads here feel about that? Is there nobody in the squad that can do the job?

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Tue 23 Feb 2021, 12:43 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:The Independent are reporting that Leinster are targeting Crusaders tighthead Isileli Tu'ungafasi, the brother of All Black Ofa. Obviously Furlong and Porter will be in Ireland camp and/or player management for large parts of the season which would explain why they're looking for a TH. How do the Leinster lads here feel about that? Is there nobody in the squad that can do the job?

I think for Pro14 matches we have youngsters available that are more than capable of holding up a scrum (the scrum against Dragons didn't strike me as getting bossed around and that was down below Furlong, Porter and Bent on the depth chart). Give the youngsters a chance.

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Post by Kingshu Tue 23 Feb 2021, 3:01 pm

At TH last season Leinster lost two young players, Aungier to Connacht which they have expected and Salanoa to Munster which they hadn't expected.

The Salanoa move left them short and its not a surprise they are in the market for a prop to replace him

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 23 Feb 2021, 5:27 pm

I think Isileli Tu'ungafasi can play both sides so could be a very handy player to have especially during the international periods. Only issue might be if he opts to play for the country of his birth and represents Tonga in the future.

Does this mean there could be a Porter/Furlong combination in the front row?

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Post by Kingshu Tue 23 Feb 2021, 10:31 pm

If leinster are going for a crusaders prop why not bring back to ireland Oliver Jager?

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Wed 24 Feb 2021, 1:53 am

Kingshu wrote:If leinster are going for a crusaders prop why not bring back to ireland Oliver Jager?
He's stated numerous times he's chasing the All Black jersey.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 24 Feb 2021, 11:13 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Georgian prop? Are you talking about Vakh Abdaladazh, he's been in Ireland since he was 5. Fardy is leaving.

I didn't think he still with Leinster either. Maybe Dragons can sign him...

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Wed 24 Feb 2021, 5:24 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Georgian prop? Are you talking about Vakh Abdaladazh, he's been in Ireland since he was 5. Fardy is leaving.

I didn't think he still with Leinster either. Maybe Dragons can sign him...
He's been out with a long term neck injury which is worrying. Hopefully he'll be back soon.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Wed 24 Feb 2021, 6:49 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:That's the fellow.

Mixed him up with someone else, who has played for Georgia, so he is a Residency player.
So to summarise Leinster will go in to next season with 3 Residency player and No NIQ

What stands out for me is the extent that Leinster and Ulster have reduced their non Irish connections list to such small numbers, 3 and 2 respectively.

I would also be interested in the qualification via a grandparent if anyone one knows the Leinster, Munster names that would be appreciated.
For Ulster there are 4 - Milasinovich, Herring, Reidy and Burns.

I can only cone up with Michael Bent for Leinster. There might be another one or two but I don't think so.

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Post by geoff999rugby Thu 25 Feb 2021, 10:31 am

Thanks - I think you are correct.
I have also looked at Munster and have come up with the following as my best guess:

Ulster:
NIQ - Nakarawa, Carter
Residency - None
Grandparent - Herring, Reidy, Burns, Milasinovich

Leinster:
NIQ - None
Residency - Lowe, Gibson-Park, Abdaladazh
Grandparent - Bent

Munster:

NIQ - De Allende, Snyman, Salanoa
Residency - Cloete, Stander, Kleyn, Knox
Grandparent - Haley, Gallagher

This all assumes the following are leaving:
Ulster: Faddes, Ludik and Matthewson
Munster: Marshall
Leinster: Fardy


Next up going through the Connacht squad

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Post by geoff999rugby Fri 26 Feb 2021, 2:02 pm

This is what I have come up with for Connacht:

NIQ - O'Donnell, Porch
Residency - Butler, Papali'i **, Aki, Roux
Grandparent - Bealham, Robertson-McCoy

** Papali'i is not currently qualified but will be provided he stays till 2023

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Post by Pot Hale Mon 29 Mar 2021, 11:09 pm

Update on this with recent movement/contract news:

Non Irish Eligible Players (NIE)

RG Snyman - Mun
Damian de Allende - Mun
Jason Jenkins - Mun
Sam Carter - Uls
Leone Nakawara - Uls

Non-Irish Qualified - 5-year track required

John Porch (2024) - Con
Ben O'Donnell (2025) - Con
Abraham Papalli'i (2025) - Con

Already Residency Qualified Pro Players - 3-year track
Munster
Keynan Knox - SA
Chris Cloete - SA
Roman Salanoa - US
Jean Kleyn - SA

Leinster
James Lowe -NZ
Jamison Gibson-Park - NZ

Connacht
Jarad Butler - Aus
Bundee Aki - NZ
Quinn Roux - SA

Ulster
Bradley Roberts - SA

Parent/Grandparent Qualified

Ulster
Will Addison - Eng-born
Rob Herring - SA-born
Billy Burns - Eng-born
Angus Curtis - Zim-born
Gareth Milasanovich - SA born
Sean Reidy - NZ-born
Kieran Treadwell - Eng-born
Jordi Murphy - Spain-born
Cormac Izuchukwu - Eng-born

Munster
Joey Carbery - NZ-born
Jeremy Loughman - US-born
Matt Gallagher - Eng-born
Mike Haley - Eng-born

Connacht
Finlay Bealham - Aus-born
Robertson-McCoy NZ-born
Ultan Dillane - Fra-born
Kieran Marmion - Eng-born
Sammy Arnold - Eng-born
Alex Wootton - Eng-born
Mathew Burke - Eng-born

Leinster

Luke McGrath - Can-born
Nick McCarthy - US-born
Ciaran Frawley - Aus-born

Child-Qualified

Vakh Abdaladze - Georgia-born


Last edited by Pot Hale on Tue 30 Mar 2021, 6:24 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Post by Kingshu Tue 30 Mar 2021, 1:50 am

Few incorrect, Faddes I don't believe can ever qualify for Ireland and doesn't appear to be getting a new contract, if you haven't got Fardy you may as well remove Fadded
Roberts I thought han irish parent or grandparent could be wrong.
Izuchukwu has an Irish mother so moves to the parent qualifed.
Don't see a need for child qualifed as it's still qualifying to play for Ireland through residency, maybe is nice to differentiate it

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 30 Mar 2021, 2:21 am

Kingshu wrote:Few incorrect, Faddes I don't believe can ever qualify for Ireland and doesn't appear to be getting a new contract, if you haven't got Fardy you may as well remove Fadded
Roberts I thought han irish parent or grandparent could be wrong.
Izuchukwu has an Irish mother so moves to the parent qualifed.
Don't see a need for child qualifed as it's still qualifying to play for Ireland through residency, maybe is nice to differentiate it

Cheers - thanks.
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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 30 Mar 2021, 9:32 am

Few more errors - Porch and O'Donnell are NIQ because they played for their country in a Rugby World Sevens.
This is the same reason Faddes was NIQ.
Papali'i qualifies after 3 years not 5.

Because of Covid the change was delayed from the end of 2019 to the end of 2020.

Haven't look in detail at the rest but don't believe their are any errors in my latest postings

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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 30 Mar 2021, 1:03 pm

"Izuchukwu has an Irish mother so moves to the parent qualifed."

You could add residency to that seeing as he moved to Offaly when he was 7 Wink

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 30 Mar 2021, 2:00 pm

Irish to his core

Izuchukwu played plenty of GAA in his youth and was good enough to feature in Offaly U14 development squads in hurling and football.

His family is steeped in sporting history, mum Catriona the cousin of Offaly's All Ireland-winning hurling brothers, Joe, Billy and Johnny Dooley. That meant his early sporting influences were principally GAA (both hurling and football, which he played underage for Offaly) and basketball while he also showed promise in the athletics arena, even winning that All-Ireland Cross Country title with Tullamore Harriers.

No doubt he will be tarred with being a blow in who isn't really Irish


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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 30 Mar 2021, 2:05 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Irish to his core

Izuchukwu played plenty of GAA in his youth and was good enough to feature in Offaly U14 development squads in hurling and football.

His family is steeped in sporting history, mum Catriona the cousin of Offaly's All Ireland-winning hurling brothers, Joe, Billy and Johnny Dooley. That meant his early sporting influences were principally GAA (both hurling and football, which he played underage for Offaly) and basketball while he also showed promise in the athletics arena, even winning that All-Ireland Cross Country title with Tullamore Harriers.

No doubt he will be tarred with being a blow in who isn't really Irish


Sure he'd be in good company with ROG, Heaslip and Jordi Murphy all being blow ins Smile

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 30 Mar 2021, 5:10 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Few more errors - Porch and O'Donnell are NIQ because they played for their country in a Rugby World Sevens.
This is the same reason Faddes was NIQ.
Papali'i qualifies after 3 years not 5.

Because of Covid the change was delayed from the end of 2019 to the end of 2020.

Haven't look in detail at the rest but don't believe their are any errors in my latest postings

Porch and O'Donnell are listed as NIQ. As I understand it, Sevens players are in certain circumstances allowed transfer to XV and be capped for a different country if they've been capped at sevens after a period of time. Which is why I didn't include them in the NIE category. However, it's unlikely either player will be contracted for that long anyway, so it's moot.

On Papali'i's residency, the implementation date of the 5-year residency moved from 2020 to 2021. Thus anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2018 was moved to anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2019. Papali'i arrived in July 2020. He would, in theory, have to wait 5 years. From WR statement: "“The Executive Committee also confirmed that a player must meet both the 36 months residency requirement and have represented the union on or before 31 December, 2021, otherwise the player will fall under the 60-month rule.”

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 30 Mar 2021, 6:22 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:"Izuchukwu has an Irish mother so moves to the parent qualifed."

You could add residency to that seeing as he moved to Offaly when he was 7 Wink

Yes - that's why I had him under Child Qualified originally. With his Irish mother, he qualifies under Parentage. Smile
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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 30 Mar 2021, 8:04 pm

Pot Hale wrote:  Porch and O'Donnell are listed as NIQ.   As I understand it, Sevens players are in certain circumstances allowed transfer to XV and be capped for a different country if they've been capped at sevens after a period of time.   Which is why I didn't include them in the NIE category.   However, it's unlikely either player will be contracted for that long anyway, so it's moot.

On Papali'i's residency, the implementation date of the 5-year residency moved from 2020 to 2021.  Thus anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2018 was moved to anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2019.   Papali'i arrived in July 2020.   He would, in theory, have to wait 5 years.  From WR statement: "“The Executive Committee also confirmed that a player must meet both the 36 months residency requirement and have represented the union on or before 31 December, 2021, otherwise the player will fall under the 60-month rule.”


On Porch and O'Donnell you list them as NIQ but can qualify after 5 years.
The rules regarding sevens is they can only play for another country only if they did not play in a Rugby Sevens World Cup.
They both played in the 2018 Sevens World Cup.
This was exactly the issue for Faddes.
When Faddes joined Ulster this was researched at the time.
So they can never qualify through residency - if they had played sevens for Australia but not in a World Cup they could have become eligible for Ireland.
It is not completely moot in so far as Nucifora wants to see less NIQ players in the Provincial squads and these two are occupying squad positions.

On Papali'i, having looked a little further I think you are right - so he is the only player in Ireland at present who falls under the 5 year qualification rule.
To my mind it makes the change made in 2020 a nonsense, it achieves nothing.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 30 Mar 2021, 8:52 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:  Porch and O'Donnell are listed as NIQ.   As I understand it, Sevens players are in certain circumstances allowed transfer to XV and be capped for a different country if they've been capped at sevens after a period of time.   Which is why I didn't include them in the NIE category.   However, it's unlikely either player will be contracted for that long anyway, so it's moot.

On Papali'i's residency, the implementation date of the 5-year residency moved from 2020 to 2021.  Thus anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2018 was moved to anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2019.   Papali'i arrived in July 2020.   He would, in theory, have to wait 5 years.  From WR statement: "“The Executive Committee also confirmed that a player must meet both the 36 months residency requirement and have represented the union on or before 31 December, 2021, otherwise the player will fall under the 60-month rule.”


On Porch and O'Donnell you list them as NIQ but can qualify after 5 years.
The rules regarding sevens is they can only play for another country only if they did not play in a Rugby Sevens World Cup.
They both played in the 2018 Sevens World Cup.
This was exactly the issue for Faddes.
When Faddes joined Ulster this was researched at the time.
So they can never qualify through residency - if they had played sevens for Australia but not in a World Cup they could have become eligible for Ireland.
It is not completely moot in so far as Nucifora wants to see less NIQ players in the Provincial squads and these two are occupying squad positions.

On Papali'i, having looked a little further I think you are right - so he is the only player in Ireland at present who falls under the 5 year qualification rule.
To my mind it makes the change made in 2020 a nonsense, it achieves nothing.

I see - thanks for clarifying on Porch, O'Donnell and Faddes - I'll change them.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 30 Mar 2021, 8:55 pm

Update on this with recent movement/contract news from 13 April.

Non Irish Eligible Players (NIE)

RG Snyman (SA)- Mun
Damian de Allende (SA) Mun
Jason Jenkins (SA) - Mun
Sam Carter (Aus) - Uls
Leone Nakawara Fij - Uls
Matt Faddes NZ - Uls
John Porch -(Aus) Con
Ben O'Donnell (Aus) Con
Michael Alaatera (Aus) - Lei

Non-Irish Qualified - 5-year track required

Abraham Papalli'i (2025) - Con

Already Residency Qualified Pro Players - 3-year track

Munster
Keynan Knox - SA
Chris Cloete - SA
Roman Salanoa - US
Jean Kleyn - SA

Leinster
James Lowe -NZ
Jamison Gibson-Park - NZ

Connacht
Jarad Butler - Aus
Bundee Aki - NZ
Quinn Roux - SA

Ulster
Bradley Roberts - SA

Parent/Grandparent Qualified

Ulster
Will Addison - Eng-born
Rob Herring - SA-born
Billy Burns - Eng-born
Angus Curtis - Zim-born
Gareth Milasanovich - SA born
Sean Reidy - NZ-born
Kieran Treadwell - Eng-born
Jordi Murphy - Spain-born
Cormac Izuchukwu - Eng-born

Munster
Joey Carbery - NZ-born
Jeremy Loughman - US-born
Matt Gallagher - Eng-born
Mike Haley - Eng-born

Connacht
Finlay Bealham - Aus-born
Robertson-McCoy NZ-born
Ultan Dillane - Fra-born
Kieran Marmion - Eng-born
Sammy Arnold - Eng-born
Alex Wootton - Eng-born
Mathew Burke - Eng-born

Leinster

Luke McGrath - Can-born
Nick McCarthy - US-born
Ciaran Frawley - Aus-born

Child-Qualified

Vakh Abdaladze - Georgia-born
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