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Irish Provinces Non Irish players

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mikey_dragon
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Kingshu
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Pete330v2
LeinsterFan4life
Maine man
profitius
geoff999rugby
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Post by geoff999rugby Thu 18 Feb 2021, 1:13 pm

Interested in who the various Irish provinces will have on their books next year who are NIQ or only qualify through residency

I'll start with Ulster

NIQ - Nakarawa, Carter
Residency - None

Assumes Faddes, Ludik and Matthewson are all away - a fairly safe bet I'd say

What is the situation elsewhere?

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Post by profitius Sat 20 Feb 2021, 2:59 pm

Munster
NIQ: De Allende, Snyman, Salanoa
Residency: Cloete, Stander, Kleyn, Knox, Marshall,

Marshall, Stander are out of contract.


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Post by Maine man Sat 20 Feb 2021, 3:15 pm

Stander's contract finishes this year? Never knew that. There were links earlier in the season with him moving to France. I'd assume he'll be offered a central contract.

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Post by geoff999rugby Mon 22 Feb 2021, 9:56 am

Thanks for the Munster update - appreciated.

That's a lot of players !
I understand Marshalls contract is unlikely to be renewed

Stander is in the same boat as Henderson - CC update to be announced

For Leinster I think it is:

NIQ - The Georgian prop and Fardy (is he staying?)
Residency - Lowe, Gibson-Park

Have I missed anybody

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon 22 Feb 2021, 3:48 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Thanks for the Munster update - appreciated.

That's a lot of players !
I understand Marshalls contract is unlikely to be renewed

Stander is in the same boat as Henderson - CC update to be announced

For Leinster I think it is:

NIQ - The Georgian prop and Fardy (is he staying?)
Residency - Lowe, Gibson-Park

Have I missed anybody
Georgian prop? Are you talking about Vakh Abdaladazh, he's been in Ireland since he was 5. Fardy is leaving.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 23 Feb 2021, 9:41 am

That's the fellow.

Mixed him up with someone else, who has played for Georgia, so he is a Residency player.
So to summarise Leinster will go in to next season with 3 Residency player and No NIQ

What stands out for me is the extent that Leinster and Ulster have reduced their non Irish connections list to such small numbers, 3 and 2 respectively.

I would also be interested in the qualification via a grandparent if anyone one knows the Leinster, Munster names that would be appreciated.
For Ulster there are 4 - Milasinovich, Herring, Reidy and Burns.

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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 23 Feb 2021, 11:10 am

The Independent are reporting that Leinster are targeting Crusaders tighthead Isileli Tu'ungafasi, the brother of All Black Ofa. Obviously Furlong and Porter will be in Ireland camp and/or player management for large parts of the season which would explain why they're looking for a TH. How do the Leinster lads here feel about that? Is there nobody in the squad that can do the job?

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Tue 23 Feb 2021, 12:43 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:The Independent are reporting that Leinster are targeting Crusaders tighthead Isileli Tu'ungafasi, the brother of All Black Ofa. Obviously Furlong and Porter will be in Ireland camp and/or player management for large parts of the season which would explain why they're looking for a TH. How do the Leinster lads here feel about that? Is there nobody in the squad that can do the job?

I think for Pro14 matches we have youngsters available that are more than capable of holding up a scrum (the scrum against Dragons didn't strike me as getting bossed around and that was down below Furlong, Porter and Bent on the depth chart). Give the youngsters a chance.

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Post by Kingshu Tue 23 Feb 2021, 3:01 pm

At TH last season Leinster lost two young players, Aungier to Connacht which they have expected and Salanoa to Munster which they hadn't expected.

The Salanoa move left them short and its not a surprise they are in the market for a prop to replace him

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 23 Feb 2021, 5:27 pm

I think Isileli Tu'ungafasi can play both sides so could be a very handy player to have especially during the international periods. Only issue might be if he opts to play for the country of his birth and represents Tonga in the future.

Does this mean there could be a Porter/Furlong combination in the front row?

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Post by Kingshu Tue 23 Feb 2021, 10:31 pm

If leinster are going for a crusaders prop why not bring back to ireland Oliver Jager?

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Wed 24 Feb 2021, 1:53 am

Kingshu wrote:If leinster are going for a crusaders prop why not bring back to ireland Oliver Jager?
He's stated numerous times he's chasing the All Black jersey.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 24 Feb 2021, 11:13 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Georgian prop? Are you talking about Vakh Abdaladazh, he's been in Ireland since he was 5. Fardy is leaving.

I didn't think he still with Leinster either. Maybe Dragons can sign him...

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Wed 24 Feb 2021, 5:24 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Georgian prop? Are you talking about Vakh Abdaladazh, he's been in Ireland since he was 5. Fardy is leaving.

I didn't think he still with Leinster either. Maybe Dragons can sign him...
He's been out with a long term neck injury which is worrying. Hopefully he'll be back soon.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Wed 24 Feb 2021, 6:49 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:That's the fellow.

Mixed him up with someone else, who has played for Georgia, so he is a Residency player.
So to summarise Leinster will go in to next season with 3 Residency player and No NIQ

What stands out for me is the extent that Leinster and Ulster have reduced their non Irish connections list to such small numbers, 3 and 2 respectively.

I would also be interested in the qualification via a grandparent if anyone one knows the Leinster, Munster names that would be appreciated.
For Ulster there are 4 - Milasinovich, Herring, Reidy and Burns.

I can only cone up with Michael Bent for Leinster. There might be another one or two but I don't think so.

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Post by geoff999rugby Thu 25 Feb 2021, 10:31 am

Thanks - I think you are correct.
I have also looked at Munster and have come up with the following as my best guess:

Ulster:
NIQ - Nakarawa, Carter
Residency - None
Grandparent - Herring, Reidy, Burns, Milasinovich

Leinster:
NIQ - None
Residency - Lowe, Gibson-Park, Abdaladazh
Grandparent - Bent

Munster:

NIQ - De Allende, Snyman, Salanoa
Residency - Cloete, Stander, Kleyn, Knox
Grandparent - Haley, Gallagher

This all assumes the following are leaving:
Ulster: Faddes, Ludik and Matthewson
Munster: Marshall
Leinster: Fardy


Next up going through the Connacht squad

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Post by geoff999rugby Fri 26 Feb 2021, 2:02 pm

This is what I have come up with for Connacht:

NIQ - O'Donnell, Porch
Residency - Butler, Papali'i **, Aki, Roux
Grandparent - Bealham, Robertson-McCoy

** Papali'i is not currently qualified but will be provided he stays till 2023

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Post by Pot Hale Mon 29 Mar 2021, 11:09 pm

Update on this with recent movement/contract news:

Non Irish Eligible Players (NIE)

RG Snyman - Mun
Damian de Allende - Mun
Jason Jenkins - Mun
Sam Carter - Uls
Leone Nakawara - Uls

Non-Irish Qualified - 5-year track required

John Porch (2024) - Con
Ben O'Donnell (2025) - Con
Abraham Papalli'i (2025) - Con

Already Residency Qualified Pro Players - 3-year track
Munster
Keynan Knox - SA
Chris Cloete - SA
Roman Salanoa - US
Jean Kleyn - SA

Leinster
James Lowe -NZ
Jamison Gibson-Park - NZ

Connacht
Jarad Butler - Aus
Bundee Aki - NZ
Quinn Roux - SA

Ulster
Bradley Roberts - SA

Parent/Grandparent Qualified

Ulster
Will Addison - Eng-born
Rob Herring - SA-born
Billy Burns - Eng-born
Angus Curtis - Zim-born
Gareth Milasanovich - SA born
Sean Reidy - NZ-born
Kieran Treadwell - Eng-born
Jordi Murphy - Spain-born
Cormac Izuchukwu - Eng-born

Munster
Joey Carbery - NZ-born
Jeremy Loughman - US-born
Matt Gallagher - Eng-born
Mike Haley - Eng-born

Connacht
Finlay Bealham - Aus-born
Robertson-McCoy NZ-born
Ultan Dillane - Fra-born
Kieran Marmion - Eng-born
Sammy Arnold - Eng-born
Alex Wootton - Eng-born
Mathew Burke - Eng-born

Leinster

Luke McGrath - Can-born
Nick McCarthy - US-born
Ciaran Frawley - Aus-born

Child-Qualified

Vakh Abdaladze - Georgia-born


Last edited by Pot Hale on Tue 30 Mar 2021, 6:24 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Post by Kingshu Tue 30 Mar 2021, 1:50 am

Few incorrect, Faddes I don't believe can ever qualify for Ireland and doesn't appear to be getting a new contract, if you haven't got Fardy you may as well remove Fadded
Roberts I thought han irish parent or grandparent could be wrong.
Izuchukwu has an Irish mother so moves to the parent qualifed.
Don't see a need for child qualifed as it's still qualifying to play for Ireland through residency, maybe is nice to differentiate it

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 30 Mar 2021, 2:21 am

Kingshu wrote:Few incorrect, Faddes I don't believe can ever qualify for Ireland and doesn't appear to be getting a new contract, if you haven't got Fardy you may as well remove Fadded
Roberts I thought han irish parent or grandparent could be wrong.
Izuchukwu has an Irish mother so moves to the parent qualifed.
Don't see a need for child qualifed as it's still qualifying to play for Ireland through residency, maybe is nice to differentiate it

Cheers - thanks.
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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 30 Mar 2021, 9:32 am

Few more errors - Porch and O'Donnell are NIQ because they played for their country in a Rugby World Sevens.
This is the same reason Faddes was NIQ.
Papali'i qualifies after 3 years not 5.

Because of Covid the change was delayed from the end of 2019 to the end of 2020.

Haven't look in detail at the rest but don't believe their are any errors in my latest postings

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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 30 Mar 2021, 1:03 pm

"Izuchukwu has an Irish mother so moves to the parent qualifed."

You could add residency to that seeing as he moved to Offaly when he was 7 Wink

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 30 Mar 2021, 2:00 pm

Irish to his core

Izuchukwu played plenty of GAA in his youth and was good enough to feature in Offaly U14 development squads in hurling and football.

His family is steeped in sporting history, mum Catriona the cousin of Offaly's All Ireland-winning hurling brothers, Joe, Billy and Johnny Dooley. That meant his early sporting influences were principally GAA (both hurling and football, which he played underage for Offaly) and basketball while he also showed promise in the athletics arena, even winning that All-Ireland Cross Country title with Tullamore Harriers.

No doubt he will be tarred with being a blow in who isn't really Irish


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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 30 Mar 2021, 2:05 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Irish to his core

Izuchukwu played plenty of GAA in his youth and was good enough to feature in Offaly U14 development squads in hurling and football.

His family is steeped in sporting history, mum Catriona the cousin of Offaly's All Ireland-winning hurling brothers, Joe, Billy and Johnny Dooley. That meant his early sporting influences were principally GAA (both hurling and football, which he played underage for Offaly) and basketball while he also showed promise in the athletics arena, even winning that All-Ireland Cross Country title with Tullamore Harriers.

No doubt he will be tarred with being a blow in who isn't really Irish


Sure he'd be in good company with ROG, Heaslip and Jordi Murphy all being blow ins Smile

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 30 Mar 2021, 5:10 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Few more errors - Porch and O'Donnell are NIQ because they played for their country in a Rugby World Sevens.
This is the same reason Faddes was NIQ.
Papali'i qualifies after 3 years not 5.

Because of Covid the change was delayed from the end of 2019 to the end of 2020.

Haven't look in detail at the rest but don't believe their are any errors in my latest postings

Porch and O'Donnell are listed as NIQ. As I understand it, Sevens players are in certain circumstances allowed transfer to XV and be capped for a different country if they've been capped at sevens after a period of time. Which is why I didn't include them in the NIE category. However, it's unlikely either player will be contracted for that long anyway, so it's moot.

On Papali'i's residency, the implementation date of the 5-year residency moved from 2020 to 2021. Thus anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2018 was moved to anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2019. Papali'i arrived in July 2020. He would, in theory, have to wait 5 years. From WR statement: "“The Executive Committee also confirmed that a player must meet both the 36 months residency requirement and have represented the union on or before 31 December, 2021, otherwise the player will fall under the 60-month rule.”

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 30 Mar 2021, 6:22 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:"Izuchukwu has an Irish mother so moves to the parent qualifed."

You could add residency to that seeing as he moved to Offaly when he was 7 Wink

Yes - that's why I had him under Child Qualified originally. With his Irish mother, he qualifies under Parentage. Smile
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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 30 Mar 2021, 8:04 pm

Pot Hale wrote:  Porch and O'Donnell are listed as NIQ.   As I understand it, Sevens players are in certain circumstances allowed transfer to XV and be capped for a different country if they've been capped at sevens after a period of time.   Which is why I didn't include them in the NIE category.   However, it's unlikely either player will be contracted for that long anyway, so it's moot.

On Papali'i's residency, the implementation date of the 5-year residency moved from 2020 to 2021.  Thus anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2018 was moved to anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2019.   Papali'i arrived in July 2020.   He would, in theory, have to wait 5 years.  From WR statement: "“The Executive Committee also confirmed that a player must meet both the 36 months residency requirement and have represented the union on or before 31 December, 2021, otherwise the player will fall under the 60-month rule.”


On Porch and O'Donnell you list them as NIQ but can qualify after 5 years.
The rules regarding sevens is they can only play for another country only if they did not play in a Rugby Sevens World Cup.
They both played in the 2018 Sevens World Cup.
This was exactly the issue for Faddes.
When Faddes joined Ulster this was researched at the time.
So they can never qualify through residency - if they had played sevens for Australia but not in a World Cup they could have become eligible for Ireland.
It is not completely moot in so far as Nucifora wants to see less NIQ players in the Provincial squads and these two are occupying squad positions.

On Papali'i, having looked a little further I think you are right - so he is the only player in Ireland at present who falls under the 5 year qualification rule.
To my mind it makes the change made in 2020 a nonsense, it achieves nothing.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 30 Mar 2021, 8:52 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:  Porch and O'Donnell are listed as NIQ.   As I understand it, Sevens players are in certain circumstances allowed transfer to XV and be capped for a different country if they've been capped at sevens after a period of time.   Which is why I didn't include them in the NIE category.   However, it's unlikely either player will be contracted for that long anyway, so it's moot.

On Papali'i's residency, the implementation date of the 5-year residency moved from 2020 to 2021.  Thus anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2018 was moved to anyone contracted after 1 Jan 2019.   Papali'i arrived in July 2020.   He would, in theory, have to wait 5 years.  From WR statement: "“The Executive Committee also confirmed that a player must meet both the 36 months residency requirement and have represented the union on or before 31 December, 2021, otherwise the player will fall under the 60-month rule.”


On Porch and O'Donnell you list them as NIQ but can qualify after 5 years.
The rules regarding sevens is they can only play for another country only if they did not play in a Rugby Sevens World Cup.
They both played in the 2018 Sevens World Cup.
This was exactly the issue for Faddes.
When Faddes joined Ulster this was researched at the time.
So they can never qualify through residency - if they had played sevens for Australia but not in a World Cup they could have become eligible for Ireland.
It is not completely moot in so far as Nucifora wants to see less NIQ players in the Provincial squads and these two are occupying squad positions.

On Papali'i, having looked a little further I think you are right - so he is the only player in Ireland at present who falls under the 5 year qualification rule.
To my mind it makes the change made in 2020 a nonsense, it achieves nothing.

I see - thanks for clarifying on Porch, O'Donnell and Faddes - I'll change them.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 30 Mar 2021, 8:55 pm

Update on this with recent movement/contract news from 23 April.

See below


Last edited by Pot Hale on Mon 10 May 2021, 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Pot Hale Mon 10 May 2021, 6:06 pm

Update on this list with recent news up to 10 May.

1. NIQ Players

A.  Ineligible Players - (capped elsewhere or not RQ)

Ulster
Sam Carter (Aus)
Leone Nakawara (Fij)
Matt Faddes (NZ)
Alby Mathewson (NZ)

Munster
RG Snyman (SA)
Damian de Allende (SA)
Jason Jenkins (SA)

Connacht
John Porch (Aus)
Ben O'Donnell (Aus)
Abraham Papalli'i (NZ) (2025)

Leinster
Michael Alaalatoa (Sam)

B. Already Residency Qualified Players (age) uncapped by Ireland

Munster
Keynan Knox - SA (22)
Chris Cloete - SA (30)
Rhys Marshall - NZ (28)
Roman Salanoa - US (23)

Connacht
Jarad Butler - Aus (30)

Ulster
Bradley Roberts - SA (25)
Louis Ludik - SA (34)

2. Residency Qualified and Ireland capped

Jean Kleyn - SA (27)
Bundee Aki - NZ (31)
James Lowe -NZ (29)
Jamison Gibson-Park - NZ (29)

3. Parent/Grandparent Qualified (*=uncapped)

Ulster
Will Addison - Eng-born
Rob Herring - SA-born
Billy Burns - Eng-born
Angus Curtis - Zim-born*
Gareth Milasanovich - SA born*
Sean Reidy - NZ-born
Kieran Treadwell - Eng-born

Munster
Matt Gallagher - Eng-born*
Mike Haley - Eng-born

Connacht
Finlay Bealham - Aus-born
Mack Hansen - Aus-born*
Robertson-McCoy NZ-born*
Kieran Marmion - Eng-born
Sammy Arnold - Eng-born
Alex Wootton - Eng-born
Mathew Burke - Eng-born*

4. Qualified by moving or family returning to Ireland as child

Joey Carbery - NZ-born
Jeremy Loughman - US-born*
Jordi Murphy - Spa-born
Ultan Dillane - Fra-born
Nick McCarthy - US-born*
Ciaran Frawley - Aus-born*
Luke McGrath - Can-born
Vakh Abdaladze - Georgia-born*
Cormac Izuchukwu - Eng-born*


Last edited by Pot Hale on Tue 11 May 2021, 6:53 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Post by Kingshu Mon 10 May 2021, 6:36 pm

I think your making it more confusing having groups for Parent/Grandparent Qualified and Qualified by moving/family returning to Ireland as child. They were all qualified by birth. Its like you are going out of your way not to classify Vakh Abdaladze as residency qualified.

He isnt in the same bracket as Murphy, Carbery etc, they were all born with irish qualification. He wasn't and gained the ability to play for Ireland through residency.

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Post by Pot Hale Mon 10 May 2021, 7:33 pm

Kingshu wrote:I think your making it more confusing having groups for Parent/Grandparent Qualified and Qualified by moving/family returning to Ireland as child. They were all qualified by birth. Its like you are going out of your way not to classify Vakh Abdaladze as residency qualified.

He isnt in the same bracket as Murphy, Carbery etc, they were all born with irish qualification. He wasn't and gained the ability to play for Ireland through residency.

Ah - he looked a bit lonely on his own, so I gave him some company. He's an Irish citizen since 2006 - nothing to do with the residency qualification rules of rugby. Unlike the residency qualified players who came here.

But sure if you want to do it a different way, have at it. Paper never refused ink and all that...
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Post by Kingshu Mon 10 May 2021, 9:23 pm

Think the list is accurate. I don't think Faddes has been resigned for next year, unless I missed it. I get what you mean residency v rugby residency qualified.

Didn't realise Roman Salanoa was qualified already. One of the features I don't like about the provinces is if Salanoa doesn't declare for Ireland he doesn't have a future in Irish rugby. Maybe he will be good enough to play for USA and Munster use a NIQ spot for him, but I think that if he declares for the USA, he will also have to look for a move to England or France.
Similar to Adeolokun, (now I don't know how he feels, just using his sitution) he could have had 50 or more caps for Nigeria but instead has one Ireland cap. He could have been a star player for them, helping promote and develop rugby and standards there. But he never really had a choice, if he had wanted to play for Nigeria he would have also had to leave Connacht and find a new club, he couldn't do both. Now he may never have wanted to play for Nigeria, and his Ireland cap means the world to him, the point I am making is he like Salonia dont really have a choice, which means there are players that could be helping tier 2 teams, sitting with maybe even 0 Irish caps.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 11 May 2021, 9:49 am

Kingshu wrote:Think the list is accurate. I don't think Faddes has been resigned for next year, unless I missed it. I get what you mean residency v rugby residency qualified.

Didn't realise Roman Salanoa was qualified already. One of the features I don't like about the provinces is if Salanoa doesn't declare for Ireland he doesn't have a future in Irish rugby. Maybe he will be good enough to play for USA and Munster use a NIQ spot for him, but I think that if he declares for the USA, he will also have to look for a move to England or France.
Similar to Adeolokun, (now I don't know how he feels, just using his sitution) he could have had 50 or more caps for Nigeria but instead has one Ireland cap. He could have been a star player for them, helping promote and develop rugby and standards there. But he never really had a choice, if he had wanted to play for Nigeria he would have also had to leave Connacht and find a new club, he couldn't do both. Now he may never have wanted to play for Nigeria, and his Ireland cap means the world to him, the point I am making is he like Salonia dont really have a choice, which means there are players that could be helping tier 2 teams, sitting with maybe even 0 Irish caps.  

Yes I looked for news on Faddes and Ludik (who I had left out of list) but haven't seen anything as yet.  The only departure names that I've seen are Hyde and McBurney - but perhaps you've seen more.

Salanoa played for USA in U20s RWC but I reckon he has his eye on seeing if he can make it through to Ireland team.   I agree that if he opts for USA then he will have to move.   I presume Munster are investing in him for their future as well as for Ireland given they have Knox but need another TH coming through to replace Ryan and Archer in the next year or so.

I knew Adeolokun when he was a kid - hung around with a group of friends with my kids.  Wanted to play for Leinster and Ireland was just a dream.   Tony Smeeth at Trinity was the one who got him back on track and suggested a move to Connacht where Lam did wonders with him.  So not surprising that he followed him to Bristol.  

I agree with you about helping Tier 2 teams though and handing out placeholder caps just to try keep a player in a system is cynical and wrong.


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Post by Pot Hale Tue 11 May 2021, 10:47 am

Just seen this quote from Andy Friend regarding NIQ status on the departure of Quinn Roux.  Unless/until a foreign-born player is capped for Ireland, they are deemed NIQ.

"Connacht currently have four NIQ players on their books – Ben O’Donnell, John Porch, Abraham Papali’i and Jarrad Butler. Although captain Butler is now Irish-qualified, he must be capped to no longer be deemed NIQ.

“We get no favours with that,” Friend added.


That changes the picture slightly on numbers of NIQ status players in each province - updated list above to reflect this.
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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 11 May 2021, 11:19 am

Porch and O'Donnell are not IQ for the reasons I mentioned some time back - 7s appearances

Faddes and Ludik will not be playing, for Ulster, next year.
If you include them you should include Mathewson.
He has a very remote chance of being re signed, they have no chance.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Tue 11 May 2021, 2:02 pm

Kingshu wrote:Think the list is accurate. I don't think Faddes has been resigned for next year, unless I missed it. I get what you mean residency v rugby residency qualified.

Didn't realise Roman Salanoa was qualified already. One of the features I don't like about the provinces is if Salanoa doesn't declare for Ireland he doesn't have a future in Irish rugby. Maybe he will be good enough to play for USA and Munster use a NIQ spot for him, but I think that if he declares for the USA, he will also have to look for a move to England or France.
Similar to Adeolokun, (now I don't know how he feels, just using his sitution) he could have had 50 or more caps for Nigeria but instead has one Ireland cap. He could have been a star player for them, helping promote and develop rugby and standards there. But he never really had a choice, if he had wanted to play for Nigeria he would have also had to leave Connacht and find a new club, he couldn't do both. Now he may never have wanted to play for Nigeria, and his Ireland cap means the world to him, the point I am making is he like Salonia dont really have a choice, which means there are players that could be helping tier 2 teams, sitting with maybe even 0 Irish caps.  

Part of me thinks that the NIQ quota shouldn't be a blanket for all countries. Where do they draw the line though? And once there is a line, how easy would it be for someone to take a case?

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 11 May 2021, 5:29 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Porch and O'Donnell are not IQ for the reasons I mentioned some time back - 7s appearances

Faddes and Ludik will not be playing, for Ulster, next year.
If you include them you should include Mathewson.
He has a very remote chance of being re signed, they have no chance.

Thanks Geoff - yes, Porch and O'Donnell are in the ineligible section of the NIQs
Good point about Mathewson - I'll stick him in until the official announcement saying otherwise.
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Post by Kingshu Tue 11 May 2021, 5:59 pm

The part where it says "Although captain Butler is now Irish-qualified, he must be capped to no longer be deemed NIQ." Is not a quote from Friend but the journalist. He has that wrong, how can they be a non Irish qualified player if they are qualified to play for Ireland?

If it were the case half of Munster team are NIQ, Knox, Salanoa, Marshall, Synman, Cloete , DDA, Jenkins

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 11 May 2021, 6:54 pm

Kingshu wrote:The part where it says "Although captain Butler is now Irish-qualified, he must be capped to no longer be deemed NIQ." Is not a quote from Friend but the journalist. He has that wrong, how can they be a non Irish qualified player if they are qualified to play for Ireland?

If it were the case half of Munster team are NIQ, Knox, Salanoa, Marshall, Synman, Cloete , DDA, Jenkins

Kingshu - one assumes the journalist is summarising Friend who adds: "we get no favours from that".

I presume that this point is linked to funding of player salaries and what the province has to contribute to a NIQ player's salary. And I suppose, that the player's status is that they are uncapped and still qualified to play for their birth country or another country where they could claim residency e.g. Butler was born in NZ but moved to Australia at 13.

Rhys Marshall is leaving Munster apparently, but not yet confirmed. However, you're right in saying that it increases the number of deemed NIQ players in the provinces which is why I adjusted the categorisation of the list above.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 11 May 2021, 7:47 pm

Well in the case of Tommy Seymour at Ulster he was treated like any other IQ player.

However when he expressed an interest in playing for Scotland, but before he left, he was told he would told he would
treated an NIQ. At the rime he was behind Bowe, Trimble and Gilroy and only level with Cochrane so he had to leave.
We weren't going to tie up a NIQ slot for a 4th choice winger.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 11 May 2021, 7:57 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Well in the case of Tommy Seymour at Ulster he was treated like any other IQ player.

However when he expressed an interest in playing for Scotland, but before he left, he was told he would told he would
treated an NIQ. At the rime he was behind Bowe, Trimble and Gilroy and only level with Cochrane so he had to leave.
We weren't going to tie up a NIQ slot for a 4th choice winger.  

Interesting story, Geoff.
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Post by Pot Hale Fri 28 May 2021, 1:13 pm

A few more departures announced, including NIQ players at Ulster and Munster - Louise Ludik and Rhys Marshall.  And in other direction, a Tongan-born capped lock - Leva Fifita to Connacht to replace Quinn Roux.

Next season's foreign-born cohort to date - updated to 31 May.

1. NIQ Players

A.  Ineligible Players - (capped elsewhere or not RQ)

Ulster
Sam Carter (Aus)
Leone Nakawara (Fij)
Matt Faddes (NZ)
Alby Mathewson (NZ)

Munster
RG Snyman (SA)
Damian de Allende (SA)
Jason Jenkins (SA)

Connacht
John Porch (Aus)
Ben O'Donnell (Aus)
Leva Fifita (Ton)
Abraham Papalli'i (NZ) (poss 2025)

Leinster
Michael Alaalatoa (Sam)

B. Already Residency Qualified Players (age) uncapped by Ireland

Munster
Keynan Knox - SA (22)
Chris Cloete - SA (30)
Roman Salanoa - US (23)

Connacht
Jarad Butler - Aus (30)

Ulster
Bradley Roberts - SA (25)

2. Residency Qualified and Ireland capped

Jean Kleyn *5 - SA (27)
Bundee Aki *31- NZ (31)
James Lowe *6 - NZ (29)
Jamison Gibson-Park *9 - NZ (29)

3. Parent/Grandparent Qualified (*=uncapped)

Ulster
Will Addison - Eng-born
Rob Herring - SA-born
Billy Burns - Eng-born
Angus Curtis - Zim-born*
Gareth Milasanovich - SA born*
Sean Reidy - NZ-born
Kieran Treadwell - Eng-born

Munster
Matt Gallagher - Eng-born*
Mike Haley - Eng-born

Connacht
Finlay Bealham - Aus-born
Mack Hansen - Aus-born*
Robertson-McCoy NZ-born*
Kieran Marmion - Eng-born
Sammy Arnold - Eng-born
Alex Wootton - Eng-born
Mathew Burke - Eng-born*
Shayne Bolton - SA-born*

4. Qualified by moving or family returning to Ireland as child

Joey Carbery - NZ-born
Jeremy Loughman - US-born*
Jordi Murphy - Spa-born
Ultan Dillane - Fra-born
Nick McCarthy - US-born*
Ciaran Frawley - Aus-born*
Luke McGrath - Can-born
Vakh Abdaladze - Georgia-born*
Cormac Izuchukwu - Eng-born*


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Post by profitius Tue 01 Jun 2021, 5:03 pm

Connacht sign Fifita from Grenoble.

ARRIVING 30
Altogether the provinces have so far made 6 signings from outside ireland. 2 of those Irish qualified.
Just 2 signings between provinces.
Promoted 22 from academies.

LEAVING 15
13 players have either retired or left the country. 2 swapped provinces.
All except Scott Fardy were Irish qualified.
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Post by BigGee Tue 08 Jun 2021, 9:10 am

Looks like the Munster players had some bbq incident that went badly wrong and ended up with several of them getting burnt. Worryingly for SA, De Allende and Snyman were amongst those that were worst effected and are requiring specialist treatment.

I have this vague recollection that something similar happened to Peter Closhey once upon a time when he decided to give the flames a bit of a boost with some inflammable material and got his face burnt.

It is a dangerous thing to do, my brother, a teacher, did it once at a school bbq and set his cloths on fire, he was lucky only to get away with superficial burns. His main recollection as he was jumping around trying to put out the fames was that some of the school kids were finding it all very amusing!

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Post by profitius Tue 08 Jun 2021, 11:10 am

Rumours that Connacht are signing 21 year old South African center, Shayne Bolton. Apparently he has an Irish passport already.


BigGee wrote:Looks like the Munster players had some bbq incident that went badly wrong and ended up with several of them getting burnt. Worryingly for SA, De Allende and Snyman were amongst those that were worst effected and are requiring specialist treatment.

I have this vague recollection that something similar happened to Peter Closhey once upon a time when he decided to give the flames a bit of a boost with some inflammable material and got his face burnt.

It is a dangerous thing to do, my brother, a teacher, did it once at a school bbq and set his cloths on fire, he was lucky only to get away with superficial burns. His main recollection as he was jumping around trying to put out the fames was that some of the school kids were finding it all very amusing!


He had one of those days!


According to de Allende someone threw petrol into it and it got their hand on fire and then moved to the petrol can which exploded.
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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 08 Jun 2021, 1:05 pm

BigGee wrote:Looks like the Munster players had some bbq incident that went badly wrong and ended up with several of them getting burnt. Worryingly for SA, De Allende and Snyman were amongst those that were worst effected and are requiring specialist treatment.

I have this vague recollection that something similar happened to Peter Closhey once upon a time when he decided to give the flames a bit of a boost with some inflammable material and got his face burnt.

It is a dangerous thing to do, my brother, a teacher, did it once at a school bbq and set his cloths on fire, he was lucky only to get away with superficial burns. His main recollection as he was jumping around trying to put out the fames was that some of the school kids were finding it all very amusing!

I knew a guy that threw petrol on his BBQ and unfortunately he inhaled the blast of flames and severely damaged his lungs. He was wheelchair bound until his death a few years later.
Obviously the incident with the Munster lads isn't as severe and I hope they're all OK but they can count their blessings.

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 08 Jun 2021, 4:38 pm

The move by irish-qualified midfielder Shayne Bolton to Connacht arises from centre, Sean O’Brien’s move to Exeter leaving a gap in their depth chart.  Connacht are also on the search for a loose head prop following Denis Buckley’s serious knee injury which may mean he has to retire.

Friend may look to appoint a new captain in the off-season.  No 8, Paul Boyle, might be in the frame.

The team next year could look quite foreign supported
Robertson-McCoy NZ
Heffernan
Bealham Aus
Dillane
Thornbury
Butler Aus
Boyle
Papalli’i NZ

Marmion Eng
Carty
Aki NZ
Bolton SA
Porch Aus
O’Donnell Aus
Wootton Eng




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Post by geoff999rugby Thu 10 Jun 2021, 1:35 pm

Just to update you

Nakarawa has failed his medical - he wont be joining us.


Ulster down to 1 NIQ - Carter and 1 qualified through residency - Roberts

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 10 Jun 2021, 9:18 pm

Next season's foreign-born cohort to date - further updates to 10 June based on official announcements from the clubs/IRFU.  With Nakawara failing his medical to join Ulster, the club said they'd be giving a further update on the 2021/22 squad in due course.  Connacht may also have some further additions having announced a number of further departures of Irish qualified players.  It remains to be seen if Leinster will make a further move into the market for another strong NIE lock to replace Fardy.

1. NIQ Players

A.  Ineligible Players - (capped elsewhere or not RQ)

Aus: Sam Carter (Uls), John Porch, Ben O'Donnell (Con), Michael Alaalatoa (Lei)
NZ: Abraham Papalli'i (Con)
SA: RG Snyman, Damian de Allende, Jason Jenkins (Mun)
Ton: Leva Fifita (Con)

B. Already Residency Qualified Players (age) uncapped by Ireland

SA: Bradley Roberts (25)- Uls, Keynan Knox (22), Chris Cloete (30) -Mun
US: Roman Salanoa (23)- Mun
Aus: Jarad Butler (30) - Con

2. Residency Qualified and Ireland capped

SA: Jean Kleyn *5 (27) - Mun
NZ: Bundee Aki *31 (31) Con, James Lowe *6 (29), Jamison Gibson-Park *9 (29), Lei

3. Parent/Grandparent Qualified (*=uncapped)

Eng: Will Addison, Billy Burns, Kieran Treadwell,(Uls) Matt Gallagher*, Mike Haley,(Mun) Kieran Marmion, Sammy Arnold, Alex Wootton, Mathew Burke* (Con)
SA: Rob Herring, Gareth Milasanovich*, (Uls) Shayne Bolton* (Con)
Zim: Angus Curtis* (Uls)
NZ: Sean Reidy, (Uls), Dom Robertson-McCoy* (Con)
Aus: Finlay Bealham, Mack Hansen* (Con)

4. Qualified by moving or family returning to Ireland as child *=uncapped

Vakh Abdaladze - Georgia*
Cormac Izuchukwu - Eng*
Joey Carbery - NZ
Jeremy Loughman - US*
Jordi Murphy - Spa
Ultan Dillane - Fra
Nick McCarthy - USA*
Ciaran Frawley - Aus*
Luke McGrath - Can

35 adult foreign-born by Province:
Connacht (14/42): O'Donnell, Porch, Papali'i, Fifita, Bealham, Hansen, Wootton, Robertson-McCoy, Bolton, Marmion, Arnold, Burke, Aki, Butler.
Ulster (9/44): Reidy, Curtis,  Herring, Milasanovich, Addison, Burns, Treadwell, Roberts, Carter.
Munster (9/47): Gallagher, Haley, Kleyn, Salanoa, de Allende, Jenkins, Knox, Cloete, Snyman.
Leinster (3/47): Alaalatoa, Gibson-Park, Lowe.

35 adult foreign-born by birth country
SA: 10
Eng: 9
Aus: 7
NZ: 6
Ton: 1
USA 1
Zim: 1

35 (19%) out of 180 senior squad players - 81% homegrown.
14 (8%) capped once or more for Ireland.
5 (3%) in last 6N test squad.
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