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England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

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Post by Pal Joey Thu 04 Mar 2021, 4:25 am

First topic message reminder :

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Wake up to hear Swann doing an Aussie impression. Can this be over in two days again?

Is that what it was? Couldn't fool me... Smile

p.s. it was a 'nowhere in particular' accent.
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Post by Duty281 Sun 28 Mar 2021, 5:30 pm

Really poor running from Wood which brought him on strike, but a ludicrous decision from the umpire. Always going over. And no run for England highlights one major flaw with DRS.

Curran managed that Kumar over well. No heroics needed because of the runs gained in the previous two overs.

19 off 12. No overs left for Kumar.

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Post by JDizzle Sun 28 Mar 2021, 5:33 pm

Not sure it was definitely going over... Was tight. Still, brings flashbacks to James Taylor being robbed of a hundred at the MCG in 2015. Now that was a disgrace.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 28 Mar 2021, 5:40 pm

14 off 6 after a comic penultimate over with two dropped chances.

Curran needs to find two sixes.

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Post by JDizzle Sun 28 Mar 2021, 5:42 pm

Incredible throw from Pandya to get that power and accuracy to the keepers end. Topley, who is a genuine 11, just needs to edge a single somewhere and hope.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 28 Mar 2021, 5:50 pm

So close yet so far for Surran. A brilliant innings though.

Such tight T20 and ODI series. I'd say that Bhuvi has been the critical factor across them. He's been consistently excellent.

A tough tour for England ever since that T1 win. 3 Test thumpings on the bounce and lose the final game decider in both the white ball series.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sun 28 Mar 2021, 5:50 pm

Surran finally showing his batting class in the ODI team but falls just short of the total, shows how badly the top order went about things.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 28 Mar 2021, 5:56 pm

Sensational innings from Sam Curran, but England fall just short in the end.

All things considered not a bad tour for England. Won a test when few expected them to, and there was certainly no shame in losing two games on sub-standard lottery pitches that weren't fit for tests. The T20 results may have been a little disappointing, but 3-2 isn't a poor score by any stretch, and the ODI series was always going to be tight - England will rue the collapse in the first game that cost them the series.

Feels like it's been a long winter, but I think the next one is going to be even longer with test visits to Australia and the West Indies, limited-overs visits to the subcontinent, and the T20 World Cup.

Looking forward to county cricket resuming on the 8th of April and England's next summer of cricket:

2 tests v New Zealand (tough to predict with IPL absentees)
3 T20s and 3 ODIs v Sri Lanka and 3 ODIs and 3 T20s v Pakistan (hopefully used predominantly for more fringe players to get a game)
5 tests v India (England should be highly confident)

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Post by KP_fan Sun 28 Mar 2021, 5:56 pm

A big applause and a Bow.for Sam Curran
He almost pulled off a Ben Stokes @Headingley
Goes back with stature enhanced . clap clap clap

That said India fluffed and almost spilt a game they should have won easily.
Kohli's captaincy is showing shades of fear of defeat and living in hope of winning ....which happens when you are not on top of your game as the leading batsman
That said Eng even came this close because they won all crucial tosses in this series.
Eng showed shades of brilliance of a world champion ...but are seemingly. past their peak....or maybe not peaked in this series.


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Post by JDizzle Mon 29 Mar 2021, 9:52 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Ok what on earth are England doing with Archer...

https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/2077843

So he played in India in both the tests and T20s with the ongoing elbow issue (which they've done another injection for)...but also with a hand injury, which was sustained in January but which now also requires surgery (bowling hand too). I get bowlers often play with slight niggles etc, but we're playing him with injuries that require surgery!
Manage him properly you bloody idiots

Jofra had his surgery today and they removed a fragment of glass from his hand. Apparently in there from when he dropped a fish tank in his bath whilst cleaning it. That is up there with some of the bizarrest sporting injuries!

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Post by king_carlos Mon 29 Mar 2021, 10:09 pm

My ex was a surgeon working in plastics so doing those sort of surgeries on a regular basis. Apparently it's amazing how often minor injuries such as that leave small fragments of things that can lead to infection after the initial wound has healed.

A former colleague when I worked as a chef once cut himself whilst doing some butchery. The wound was quite deep but not that large, as it was a sharp knife and clean cut it healed very quickly. He cleaned it out with antiseptic, dressed it, wore a latex glove, etc and didn't need to miss a single shift. About a fortnight later he woke up with his hand in agony one morning with it completely swelling up overnight and his finger locked so he couldn't flex it. Turned out that a tiny piece from whatever he was butchering was under the skin when it healed and just festered there until the flexor sheath that protects the tendons had got infected. A really nasty infection that led to a couple of surgeries to clean the wound then repair the flexor sheath as well as a few nights in hospital.

Now I'm not saying that any of that story happened to Jof! But it is amazing how much grief even a tiny wound can cause with something caught in it.

It sounds like that fish tank injury was only giving him minor discomfort but as he's out for a wee while with the elbow they might as well have dealt with it. The elbow's obviously the bigger worry and sounds like something he might have to manage throughout his career similar to Wood with his ankle. Most pace bowlers have injuries they need to manage though. It isn't so long ago that many were writing off Pat Cummins during his repeat stress fractures. I'd say he's the best Test bowler in the world now.

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Post by KP_fan Tue 30 Mar 2021, 11:45 am

Duty281 wrote:
5 tests v India (England should be highly confident)

Highly Confident of what?Whistle
winning 5-0 , or 4-0 or 4-1 ?
Or Not Losing
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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 30 Mar 2021, 12:04 pm

2018- 4-1 England
2014- 3-1 England
2011- 4-0 England

I'm highly confident of a comfortable England series win.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 30 Mar 2021, 12:08 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
5 tests v India (England should be highly confident)

Highly Confident of what?Whistle
winning 5-0 , or 4-0 or 4-1 ?
Or Not Losing

Pretty much what Soul said. England should be highly confident of recording a comfortable series victory against an opposition that is usually second-rate when it comes over to our green and pleasant land - in my lifetime India have played 24 tests in England and won a grand total of 4.

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Post by king_carlos Tue 30 Mar 2021, 2:07 pm

India's seam attack will be the best they've traveled with in a long while though importantly. Bumrah, Ishant, Shami and Yadav have been instrumental in their Test rise. Shami has a poor record in England so may not tour but Bumrah is a class act, Sharma has improved exponentially in the second half of his career and Yadav bowled well in the tight Birmingham Test in 2018.

Bhuvi will likely return for the England series and suit the conditions very well. Whilst Siraj looks to have skills suited to English conditions too. I'd guess we will see Bumrah/Yadav rotated as pace bowlers, Ishant for the heavy lifting and Bhuvi as a horses for courses with English pitches. Maybe Hardik as an additional option if he can stay fit.

The India batsman will naturally be worse outside home conditions as practically all batsman are but England's batting isn't strong either. We often talk about overseas openers struggling against the dukes ball but Burns only just averages over 30 in home conditions. Even Warner for his struggles on these shores averages 26 with 7 half centuries in England. We aren't exactly rolling in riches there.

The 2018 series was tighter than 4-1 makes it look too in my opinion. Surran's lower order biffing rescued T1 and Moeen bowled us to a low scoring victory in T4 after another Surran first innings rescue mission. Then the T3 win for India was comprehensive. England were certainly better overall but nowhere near plain sailing.

I'd back England to win at home but it is a very strong India side. As seen in Australia they are getting better and better away from home too.

Pujara and Rahane could be key. Kohli will be Kohli and Pant will be Pant. We've already seen Pant score a brilliant century in England whilst Kohli was imperious in 2018. Pujara and Rahane have at times played very well in England but struggled overall. If those two can play vital innings as they did in the recent Australia series then India may well get another scalp away from home.

It should be a good series.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 30 Mar 2021, 2:20 pm

I think it’s been a good tour for England. The test losses were expected, but they went out there and got experience across a group of players. Whilst I have said my piece about issues with their rotation and selection, I think there were positives to take, definitely.

With the t20s, you get the feeling matches don’t matter until the World Cup. Everything else is just a tuning process, and I think mentality is wildly different with the players too. They’ve got a couple things to sort.

One dayers were slightly different. The resting has probably cost them the series, but it was good to get a look at some of the other players and get a few others on some form. Considering it’s come at the end of a long series and a very long winter, they came bloody close to winning that in India when well short of their best.

India looked strong, and I think their seam attack is as well placed to succeed in England as any other in world cricket, but you’d be shocked if England didn’t reverse these kinda series scores with home conditions.

Be interesting to see if we lose one whether we try and fix the pitches to take advantage too.

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Post by KP_fan Tue 30 Mar 2021, 2:53 pm

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
5 tests v India (England should be highly confident)

Highly Confident of what?Whistle
winning 5-0 , or 4-0 or 4-1 ?
Or Not Losing

Pretty much what Soul said. England should be highly confident of recording a comfortable series victory against an opposition that is usually second-rate when it comes over to our green and pleasant land - in my lifetime India have played 24 tests in England and won a grand total of 4.

Good to see a stake in the ground defining your comfortable.

I think it will be 3-2 or 2-3 if rain doesn't take too much time out of any of the tests
Else it could be 2-2 , 2-1 or 1-2

Past is not as big an indicator ..... living in present India's specialist batting, and spin is better than Eng's and seam bowling equal if neither side has any injured seamers.
Eng has slightly better depth in batting in spite of India planning to play 2 all rounders among its 5 bowlers,
Better luck with tosses and also the possibility of benefitting in at least one test from Kohli's brain-fade in team selection or another unforeseen implosion.



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Post by KP_fan Tue 30 Mar 2021, 2:57 pm

and as an add on in my lifetime I have seen India
India win in 1986
drawn series in 2003
Ind won in 2007
but lost the last 3 tours badly but winning a test at least in last two tours

Eng's been a "less bad" overseas hunting ground relatively speaking in India's history
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Post by Duty281 Tue 30 Mar 2021, 4:01 pm

In English conditions, I would rate England's batting as much better than India's. India really struggle in England with the bat which is why they've lost 11 tests on their last three visits here - even Kohli, the master, only averages 36 in English conditions. The likes of Gill, Sharma, Pujara and Rahane (both of the latter two average under 30 over here) are going to struggle massively. Will be interesting to see how Pant fares - he performed poorly in England in 2018, bar one innings where he crafted a century in a lost cause. Obviously he's improved as a batsmen since 2018, but it remains to be seen if that translates to English conditions.

England's batting is nothing remarkable at the moment, but it does have strong potential and is improving, plus it has two-proven high-class batsmen in Stokes and Root. And England are just so much more used to the conditions than the Indian batsmen.

India's seam-bowling is decent, especially Bumrah who will be the main danger man, but England are just far superior in this department as well. Anderson and Broad, on-form, can reach levels of performance that no Indian seamer can get close to, and Woakes and Curran are highly dangerous in seaming conditions. Then you've got the true pace bowlers of Wood, Archer and Stone who add another layer of brilliance to England's arsenal, before rounding things off with Stokes who is a renowned partnership-breaker.

India have got Bumrah who is top-quality, true enough, and Kumar does well in English conditions, but outside of that they have very little. Shami and Sharma have shown themselves, previously, to be nothing special in English conditions, and I don't rate Siraj highly based on what I've seen, though he is an unknown quantity in English conditions. And Yadav is a home-town bowler - averages under 25 with the ball at home, over 40 away from it.

Spin is one area where India are better, but we're not going to be seeing rank-turners at any point.

It's obviously difficult to factor in rain and such, but if we get a full five tests I'd be expecting at least a 3-1 win for England, though 5-0 isn't out of the question. It's difficult to see India winning more than a test, and winning the series would be an even freakier result than the almost-unbelievable test series win they achieved in Australia. Ultimately, India are about as close to winning a test series in England, as England are of doing likewise in India.

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Post by alfie Wed 31 Mar 2021, 3:59 am

I am not as confident as some of a sweeping England home win this summer... I do think they remain favourites , for the reasons generally agreed above ; but I think it is clear this Indian side is improving a lot - as seen in their come-from-behind win in Australia - and have a better chance than any of their recent predecessors.

Their depth is far better than any of those squads sent this century (again shown in Australia , and also to a degree with the new blood on show across the England tour). How well all this translates to the English conditions which have found them out in the past won't be known until they are tried , and also may depend partly on the weather and the actual pitches they come across. But again , I think this means they are to an extent an unknown quantity and not one to be written off in advance.
In direct comparisons, England appear stronger in pace bowling : both sides have a bit of depth here , but the home team look to have a bit more in all areas for the expected conditions. The opposite can be said for spin !
It is the batting though that will probably be crucial. And here I am just not so sure England can be overconfident. No Cook at the top of the order now ; and the replacements , while they've all shone at times , boast very modest overall figures. Apart from Root (and Stokes of course) I doubt any current England batsman would be likely to command regular selection for any of the other Test sides at present. (Not to say some won't develop into fine players : they just haven't proved it yet)
India obviously need Kohli firing. His battle with Anderson will be absorbing as always . Extraordinary to think that Jimmy hasn't actually got him out for years now - though he's had him dropped by approximately the whole slips cordon over their last few confrontations  Smile . Their openers , whoever they settle on , face a real test. And just how well the middle order , Pant and the all rounders who did such a fine job in Australia , manage English conditions will be fascinating to watch. If they can put regular scoreboard pressure on England it will go a long way toward series success.

Plus Covid : remains to be seen how much health issues ,"  bubbles" etc , complicate the tour. I do think the unusual arrangements surrounding all recent cricket tours have influenced matches - would be strange if they hadn't ! So without discounting any recent results I think we need to keep a measure of caution in extrapolating from them.

India are presently considered - along with the perennially underrated NZ - the best Test team ; with a good deal of justification. But I'd say there is relatively little between all Test teams at the moment : on their day , practically anyone can beat anyone else , particularly at home - a situation which I for one find quite attractive. So I'd never call a series " whitewash" in advance. Or "likely draw" , for that matter.  I suspect we will see some tight matches and a couple of blowouts, one way or the other. But while I do reckon an England series victory is the more likely , the scoreline could literally be anything...

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Post by KP_fan Wed 31 Mar 2021, 8:01 am

alfie wrote:

India are presently considered - along with the perennially underrated NZ - the best Test team ; with a good deal of justification.



England series victory is the more likely , the scoreline could literally be anything...

Yup you're right....Ind-NZ & Aus are Tier-1 Teams Wink
Tier-2 Teams like Eng always strong favorites to win at home even against Tier-1....that's why they are Tier-2 and not in Tier 3 or 4.

And Mind you Eng is only borderline  on Tier-2 side.....could well jump into Tier-1 if they come back undefeated from Aus.
Actually I would be willing to move them up even if they come not-badly-defeated from Aus, provided they win their preceding home test series by steam-rolling the opponents
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 31 Mar 2021, 8:44 am

alfie wrote:I am not as confident as some of a sweeping England home win this summer... I do think they remain favourites , for the reasons generally agreed above ; but I think it is clear this Indian side is improving a lot - as seen in their come-from-behind win in Australia - and have a better chance than any of their recent predecessors.

Their depth is far better than any of those squads sent this century (again shown in Australia , and also to a degree with the new blood on show across the England tour). How well all this translates to the English conditions which have found them out in the past won't be known until they are tried , and also may depend partly on the weather and the actual pitches they come across. But again , I think this means they are to an extent an unknown quantity and not one to be written off in advance.
In direct comparisons, England appear stronger in pace bowling : both sides have a bit of depth here , but the home team look to have a bit more in all areas for the expected conditions. The opposite can be said for spin !
It is the batting though that will probably be crucial. And here I am just not so sure England can be overconfident. No Cook at the top of the order now ; and the replacements , while they've all shone at times , boast very modest overall figures. Apart from Root (and Stokes of course) I doubt any current England batsman would be likely to command regular selection for any of the other Test sides at present. (Not to say some won't develop into fine players : they just haven't proved it yet)
India obviously need Kohli firing. His battle with Anderson will be absorbing as always . Extraordinary to think that Jimmy hasn't actually got him out for years now - though he's had him dropped by approximately the whole slips cordon over their last few confrontations  Smile . Their openers , whoever they settle on , face a real test. And just how well the middle order , Pant and the all rounders who did such a fine job in Australia , manage English conditions will be fascinating to watch. If they can put regular scoreboard pressure on England it will go a long way toward series success.

Plus Covid : remains to be seen how much health issues ,"  bubbles" etc , complicate the tour. I do think the unusual arrangements surrounding all recent cricket tours have influenced matches - would be strange if they hadn't ! So without discounting any recent results I think we need to keep a measure of caution in extrapolating from them.

India are presently considered - along with the perennially underrated NZ - the best Test team ; with a good deal of justification. But I'd say there is relatively little between all Test teams at the moment : on their day , practically anyone can beat anyone else , particularly at home - a situation which I for one find quite attractive. So I'd never call a series " whitewash" in advance. Or "likely draw" , for that matter.  I suspect we will see some tight matches and a couple of blowouts, one way or the other. But while I do reckon an England series victory is the more likely , the scoreline could literally be anything...

Agree Alfie, expecting a pretty tight series, (as the 2018 series was, the 4-1 scoreline doesn't really reflect how tight some of those tests were). I don't really know where Duty gets this idea Ishant is poor in English conditions, he was very good in 2018 and in 22 tests across 2018-2021, he averages 19.80 with the ball. He's become an extremely fine bowler, along with Bumrah and Bhuvi (if fit), would make a formidable seam bowling attack, with Shami/Siraj forming very good depth. Be interesting to see whether they go with four seamers and one of Jadeja/Ashwin, or three seamers and both Jadeja/Ashwin...I think I'd want Jadeja in the side whatever, mainly for his lower order batting (we saw in the 2018 series how important that is with Sam Curran and Woakes)...and I think they missed a trick having him play only one test here last time.

Should be a fantastic series! Albeit I am somewhat sad that the aforementioned NZ only get a two test series...9 test matches against one side in 6 months is a bit much.
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Post by alfie Wed 31 Mar 2021, 8:54 am

KP_fan wrote:
alfie wrote:

India are presently considered - along with the perennially underrated NZ - the best Test team ; with a good deal of justification.



England series victory is the more likely , the scoreline could literally be anything...

Yup you're right....Ind-NZ & Aus are Tier-1 Teams Wink
Tier-2 Teams like Eng always strong favorites to win at home even against Tier-1....that's why they are Tier-2 and not in Tier 3 or 4.

And Mind you Eng is only borderline  on Tier-2 side.....could well jump into Tier-1 if they come back undefeated from Aus.
Actually I would be willing to move them up even if they come not-badly-defeated from Aus, provided they  win their preceding home test series by steam-rolling the opponents

Ha ha , KP_fan... I see you are not letting up on your "tier two England" theory Smile

In all seriousness , however : I have just read an article discussing the likelihood of India entering a decade or more as dominant force in all formats - like late 20th century West Indies and subsequent Australian teams. Certainly the depth I was referring to suggests this is possible.

Seems to me though , that however impregnable their home base , India would need to improve their away record by some degree before being elevated to such a rating. Winning in Australia was a good start ; but they've a bit more to do yet I think , so the tour of England may be a good indicator...
Have to say also , winning away is getting harder , as a general rule , owing to the abbreviated schedules of modern tours. Less time for adjustment to different conditions really does disadvantage the touring side - and not much chance of this changing in the immediate future , with all the fixture congestion brought about by franchise leagues and agreements for a "fair" mix of tours between all countries. (Not arguing against giving the "minnows" a decent look in , by the way : just pointing out that their inclusion in touring programmes does obviously further impact the "windows" open for tours in general)

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Post by KP_fan Wed 31 Mar 2021, 9:10 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Be interesting to see whether they go with four seamers and one of Jadeja/Ashwin, or three seamers and both Jadeja/Ashwin...

India will go with 3 semers + Pandya as 4th Seamer + Ashwin as the starting spinner on seam friendly pitches to make up their 5 bowlers.
On slightly more batting friendly pitches ( I doubt there will be out and out spin friendly pitch).....Jadeja might come in for Pandya.

Ashwin has possibility of breaking down after 2 or 3 tests...in which case Jadeja will become first spinner and Washington the second/ standby spinner

On seamers ....Bumrah and Shami will be the top two seamers and the 3rd a toss-up between Bhuvi and Ishant depending on how seaming the pitch is where Bhuvi will get preference vs Ishant on drier / batsman friendly pitches

Umesh, Siraj and Shardul will make the back-up seam bowling resources
And Prasidh & Saini being stand-by fast bowlers
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Post by KP_fan Wed 31 Mar 2021, 9:15 am

alfie wrote:In all seriousness , however : I have just read an article discussing the likelihood of India entering a decade or more as dominant force in all formats - like late 20th century West Indies and subsequent Australian teams. Certainly the depth I was referring to suggests this is possible.

I too read the headlines of that article from Ian Chappel...and thought naah India is not in the class of WI of 80s or Waugh's Aus...actually quite far from it.
( Old Chappell will write anything these days to make a few bucks...he's lost his edge)

We are just beginning to feel assured that we will be competitive overseas i.e win at least a test and might eek out a drawn or narrowly won series.

bilateral T20Is and ODIs don't matter.....only world cups do....and Ind is generally been and continues to be in top-4 with no clear outright superiority like WI and Aus at their peaks
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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 31 Mar 2021, 9:56 am

The 2018 series wasn't as close as some wish to make out, England were better with the ball and the bat which resulted in a comfortable 4-1 series win. There were occassions when India were in games but that few and far between to be honest, a lot is made of Curran producing a couple of important knocks but that's no different to Pujara going against the norm and actually scoring in England.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 31 Mar 2021, 10:35 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I don't really know where Duty gets this idea Ishant is poor in English conditions,

I didn't say he was poor, I said he was nothing special. And he isn't.

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Post by king_carlos Wed 31 Mar 2021, 8:00 pm

Mike Atherton's son Josh De Caires scored a century for Leeds-Bradford Uni against a Yorkshire attack of Willey, Coad, Patterson and Fisher. The pitch is a road by the sounds of things but he's definitely one to watch.

I usually wouldn't mention it but I brought him up during to Tom Lammonby, future England openers discussion. He's only 18 now and came to my attention when I saw him score a century for the Middlesex 2nd XI against a Hants 2nd XI attack including Keith Barker a couple of summers ago just after turning 17. A very composed knock from such a young player.

I could see De Caires following a similar path to Andrew Strauss by starting out playing Uni cricket whilst contracted to Middlesex but breaking into the first XI pretty young.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 04 Apr 2021, 5:00 pm

Duty’s boy Tom Lammonby with a century in the pre season game against Glamorgan - the hype around him only continues to build
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Post by Jetty Mon 05 Apr 2021, 12:37 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Be interesting to see whether they go with four seamers and one of Jadeja/Ashwin, or three seamers and both Jadeja/Ashwin...

India will go with 3 semers + Pandya as 4th Seamer + Ashwin as the starting spinner  on seam friendly pitches to make up their 5 bowlers.
On slightly more batting friendly pitches ( I doubt there will be out and out spin friendly pitch).....Jadeja might come in for Pandya.

Ashwin has possibility of breaking down after 2 or 3 tests...in which case Jadeja will become first spinner and Washington the second/ standby spinner

On seamers ....Bumrah and Shami will be the top two seamers and the 3rd a toss-up between Bhuvi and Ishant depending on how seaming the pitch is where Bhuvi will get preference vs Ishant on drier / batsman friendly pitches

Umesh, Siraj and Shardul will make the back-up seam bowling resources
And Prasidh & Saini being stand-by fast bowlers

I think it will be Sharma, Shami, Bumrah, Pandya and Jadeja.
Bhuvi hasn't played Test cricket in 3 years.

Sharma has improved since bowling a fuller length which he can give credit to Jason Gillespie at Sussex. Since the start of 2017, he has claimed 85 wickets in 24 games at an average of 22.20 which also includes 4 five-wicket hauls.


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 16 Apr 2021, 9:48 am

Stokes broke his finger in the IPL, and is a potential doubt for the NZ Test series at the start of the summer. Definitely out of the IPL now
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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 16 Apr 2021, 2:12 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Stokes broke his finger in the IPL, and is a potential doubt for the NZ Test series at the start of the summer. Definitely out of the IPL now

I think he is now confirmed as out for the NZ series.

Huge blow. Even bigger (just) than Root being injured and probably makes NZ slight favourites now.

What do people think the team will be without Stokes?

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 16 Apr 2021, 2:14 pm

Something like -

Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Pope
Buttler
Woakes
Archer
Leach
Broad
Anderson

Weakens the batting obviously as Woakes is marginal as a 7 but decent bowling line up.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 16 Apr 2021, 2:16 pm

Sibley a doubt as well, he's also suffered a fracture to one of his fingers.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 16 Apr 2021, 2:18 pm

They could bring in Lawrence or Foakes I suppose and have a traditional top 7 with Woakes at 8, and then a combination of Wood/Archer/Stone/Jimmy/Broad/Leach to make up the other 3 spots.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 16 Apr 2021, 2:21 pm

I'd bet on Woakes at 7 and Surran at 8 combining to make almost a batsman but still having the extra bowling option that England don't seem that comfortable without. It means a long tail but still stronger than what was fielded successfully in Sri Lanka.

1.Burns
2.Sibley
3.Crawley
4.Root (c)
5.Pope/Lawrence
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Woakes
8.Surran
9.Leach
10.Wood/Archer/Stone
11.Anderson/Broad

That's presuming the selectors stick with rotating Jimmy and Broad whilst fitting in a pace bowler. I'd really like Stone to get chances this summer. Ollie Robinson I also really fancy for a test cap in the near future.

Unconvincing is still how I would define England's batting lineup. It would do this side the world of good if a young batsman could really throw their hand up in county cricket.


Last edited by king_carlos on Fri 16 Apr 2021, 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 16 Apr 2021, 2:21 pm

Duty281 wrote:Sibley a doubt as well, he's also suffered a fracture to one of his fingers.

Oh dear. Crawley to open with Burns then and Lawrence to come into the middle order somewhere. Perhaps Pope to 3 and Lawrence in at 5 unless they spring a surprise name but unlikely.

The 3 position is a real issue. Somethings never change.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 16 Apr 2021, 2:22 pm

king_carlos wrote:I'd bet on Woakes at 7 and Surran at 8 .

Good shout. Forgot about him.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 16 Apr 2021, 2:30 pm

That must have been quite a finger fracture to rule him out for 12 weeks.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 16 Apr 2021, 3:08 pm

Way too early to be predicting teams and squads for me - lotta cricket to be played before then! Smile
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Post by king_carlos Fri 16 Apr 2021, 11:25 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79qwCHO6s4M&ab_channel=LancashireCricketTV

Matt Parkinson has so much potential.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Mon 19 Apr 2021, 12:09 pm

king_carlos wrote:Ollie Robinson I also really fancy for a test cap in the near future.


Don't think you'll be waiting long to see it after his exploits this weekend!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 20 Apr 2021, 1:45 pm

https://twitter.com/jakegoodwill1/status/1384437142131257344?s=21

Interesting article here
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Post by James100 Tue 20 Apr 2021, 7:41 pm

The Guardian wrote:Ed Smith has been removed as England national selector after three years in the role, with the head coach, Chris Silverwood, placed in sole charge of picking squads across all three formats as part of a revamped system.

Ashley Giles, the managing director of England men, announced the news in a statement on Tuesday evening citing the need for “greater lines of accountability” and noting that the concept of a selection panel was a system that has been in place for 120 years.

Accordingly James Taylor, previously Smith’s deputy, has been moved into a new role as head scout and will report to Silverwood, who is now handed “overall responsibility for future squad selections” and will continue to pick teams on matchdays in conjunction with England’s two captains, Joe Root and Eoin Morgan.

More to follow...

Ed Smith sacked!

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/apr/20/ed-smith-removed-as-england-national-selector-in-cricket-revamp

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Post by Duty281 Tue 20 Apr 2021, 7:43 pm

That's a surprise. I think. Didn't see it coming.

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Post by JDizzle Tue 20 Apr 2021, 8:24 pm

Not sure I like the idea of Silverwood being in charge of selection. How much County Cricket is he really going to be able to watch? I know they have all their stats and data, but can never beat the good old fashioned eye test.

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Post by king_carlos Tue 20 Apr 2021, 10:08 pm

It sounds like Taylor in that head scout role will be leading the guys who run the eye test over the county game. So still input there, but final say to the coach now.

I'm a bit torn on it to be honest. On the one hand it increases the possibility of players being overlooked or persevered with due to one person rating them. On the other hand it does remove the situation I've felt in the past where the England side has performed poorly, they will remove either the head coach or the chief selector and I'm left thinking, "was that guy actually the problem though?"

I like that it sounds like the captains will have greater say. There is risk there as the skipper has closer friendship with players but a larger group of selectors can lead to a situation where the skipper is captaining a player he doesn't fully trust. Those situations are bad for the skipper, team and the player who may be struggling.

Certainly a surprise and I hadn't heard any whispers it was in the pipeline.

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Post by alfie Wed 21 Apr 2021, 5:33 am

Is a bit of a surprise , as no hints (that I saw) had been dropped in advance.

Not displeased , as I was not a fan of Smith and his sometimes "quirky" selections - nor the often rather unconvincing reasons he put out to explain them. How Silverwood will go working more with Taylor we must wait and see , but I'm happy to give it a try.

Wonder if the recent mixed views around the "covid bubble rotations" were a source of behind the scenes disagreements which influenced this change ?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 21 Apr 2021, 7:58 am

JDizzle wrote:Not sure I like the idea of Silverwood being in charge of selection. How much County Cricket is he really going to be able to watch? I know they have all their stats and data, but can never beat the good old fashioned eye test.

I thought Smith actually did a good job, as the Telegraph article I posted indicated. From what I’ve read this was partly restructure, partly financial in terms of motive....but i more don’t like it from the perspective of what we’re now saddling Silverwood with. Not only is he in charge of the test, ODI and T20 sides, he now has to find the time to make selection decisions and watch up and coming players for that too?
Are we actively trying to break this man?
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Post by VTR Wed 21 Apr 2021, 10:43 am

Well whatever it is or isn't, it surely must reduce the already low chances of ever seeing another Dentury!

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Post by Duty281 Wed 21 Apr 2021, 5:58 pm

Duty281 wrote:Sibley a doubt as well, he's also suffered a fracture to one of his fingers.

Sibley will miss the next 2 CC games, but he should recover in time for England's test series against New Zealand.

Anderson, however, has pulled out of his comeback game for Lancashire tomorrow with a tight calf. Hopefully not too serious.

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