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Scotland v Ireland 6N Championship Sunday 14th march 2021

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Post by BigGee Tue 09 Mar 2021, 8:49 am

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Ireland
6N Championship

14th March 2021
BT Murrayfield
Edinburgh
KO 15.00


Well we are getting to the business end of the championship and we have two sides who need a win.

Scotland started very brightly in their first game, ending their Twickenham hoodoo at long last, then managed to lose a game they were winning comfortably against Wales, have all the old doubts about the steel of this Scotland side, who can look very good when on song, returned?

Ireland did not have a good start to the tournament and no one will be convinced by a strong win over Italy either, which should really be a given atm They have not really found their style yet under Farrell and still perhaps seem to reliant on their old stagers and be a little reluctant to move on to the next generation.

So in effect, both sides seem a bit fragile still, which might make this a fascinating contest.

Scotland don't have a good record against Ireland in recent times and the lack of a crowd won't give much, if any advantage to the home side. On that basis you would have to fancy Ireland for a narrow victory, though I would imagine it will be close.

I think we might see a scotland team with not many changes, something along these lines, with the highlight hopefully being seeing Dobie win his first cap off the bench:

1. Sutherland
2. Turner
3. Nel
4. Cummings
5. Gray J
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Fagerson M
9. Price
10. Russell
11. VDM
12. Johnson
13. Harris
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Subs:

Keeble
Cherry
Berghan
Skinner
Haining
Dobie (a first cap off the bench)
Lang
Jones H

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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:34 pm

tigertattie wrote:This is rotten. Utterly rotten.

3 easy line outs messed up. Knock ons everywhere

We’ve got not platform at all

We’ve regressed back to rabbit in headlight mode

Fundamental differences between the England win and every other Scottish performance. Wales took Scotland apart in the lineout. Ireland are dominating them as well and the lineout isn't functioning.

This is a big test to see where Scotland are, collectively and individually. There are Lions places up for grabs for the lines of Jonny Gray and even Cummings if they perform. It's not going well so far.

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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:34 pm

This is why you play to the whistle. It looked fine in normal time, it looked like it was chest/face. Poor from Ireland.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:35 pm

Deserved because Bernie was always part of the tackle that led to the turnover which led to the sink through. Ref didn't give a penalty and Scotland score a lucky try. Bit of karma.

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Post by NeilyBroon Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:36 pm

Well that's a typically nutty try unrelated is that mark Bennett in the stands as well?
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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:38 pm

WP just showed that when Healy does his usual squint drive that of you squeeze Healy will pop up and you’ll get the penalty
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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:40 pm

Well that's the 15 minute period survived by Scotland.

Fortuitous try but it's now very much game on.

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Post by BigGee Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:40 pm

Lineout is killing us

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Post by NeilyBroon Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:41 pm

Lineout is atrocious today. They need to keep it simple and steady ship.
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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:41 pm

BigGee wrote:Lineout is killing us

Terrible Gee. Just terrible.

We’re just shooting ourself on the foot at will today
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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:43 pm

Far too much shouting at Poite by the Scotland players. That last penalty looked like Poite is just losing patience with it and deciding to give Ireland the benefit of the doubt. Poor discipline from the Scots.

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Post by BigGee Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:43 pm

Well we are taking our kicks today

Mind you with the way our lineout is going that is maybe no bad thing

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Post by NeilyBroon Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:45 pm

I hope dalziel tells them to simplify things at HT, there seems to be confusion over the calls. May be worth bringing cherry on for the second half.
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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:47 pm

Get price off. He’s just mince. Mince Mince mince.
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Post by BigGee Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:47 pm

What a stupid penalty to give away by Price, there was no need to do that

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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:48 pm

So stupid from Scotland. Really poor.

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Post by BigGee Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:49 pm

14-11 ireland at HT

Ali Price needs to have a good look at himself

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Post by NeilyBroon Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:49 pm

Yep, another cheap penalty. Bring Steele on. He may not be spectacular but I don't think he'll balls it up as much as price has been. Toonie needs to show why he's picked him ahead of SHC.
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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:52 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:I hope dalziel tells them to simplify things at HT, there seems to be confusion over the calls. May be worth bringing cherry on for the second half.

The scoreline is hiding the fact that Scotland haven't done enough to mitigate the pressure Ireland are putting them under. In short, they've got lucky with their try, and Ireland not scoring more.

They need to keep things simple and take the opportunities when they get in Ireland's half. We all know they can score tries from deep but at the moment they're rushing without any sort of platform of security of their own ball at the ruck.

It's good for the neutral. It means Scotland are going back to playing 7s which makes it exciting but I'd be frustrated as a Scotland fan. Without the (let's be honest, lucky) Scottish try it would be clear that they're not really in the game.

Unless things change, Scotland are basically reliant on luck to keep in touch on the scoreboard, and Ireland tiring in the final quarter so their 7s style rugby can pay off. It looks great when Scotland run the ball but unless they can go 60-80m+ by offloading or kicking all the way, they're not really going to score tries that way as Ireland are turning them over or forcing the mistake as soon as the runner is tackled.


Last edited by whatahitson on Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by George Carlin Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:53 pm

Sloppier than a toddler with an ice cream on a Segway.
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Post by Heuer27 Sun 14 Mar 2021, 3:54 pm

Why has Healy only been done once in the scrum. He has hinged at every scrum there has been. Stupid mistakes compounded by stupid mistakes.
Its hard to watch

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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:00 pm

Heuer27 wrote:Stupid mistakes compounded by stupid mistakes.
Its hard to watch

Some of those mistakes are being forced by Ireland pressure though. Ireland are looking good when they're able to play the game at their (slower, tighter) tempo. Scotland's response is to try to up the tempo and move the ball wider every single time. That makes it much harder for the Scots to be accurate and go through the phases because it's so much quicker/looser - but it shows it can pay off, look at the Scottish try.

The frustrating thing is Scotland seem unable to slow the ball down when they're finally within 30m of the Irish tryline. They can't seem to mix it up. Why? I don't know. It seems by design, something they've been coached to do. They don't want to tighten up, play accurately, and put Ireland under pressure. Maybe because they can't? But we'll never know as they can't even build 3 phases from the back of a set piece at the moment.

Very frustrating to watch, I agree. Being able to play at 100mph is great but Scotland also need to know how to just build through the phases and force Ireland to make defensive mistakes by just ticking along at the national speed limit as well. They have the players like Russell and VDM who will exploit any half gap or defensive misread so I don't know why they're overplaying so consistently. Unless they're completely second best at the set piece and breakdown - which only the players will really know out on the field.

Even so, Scotland showed they could play this way against England, so why not Ireland?

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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:03 pm

Heuer27 wrote:Why has Healy only been done once in the scrum. He has hinged at every scrum there has been. Stupid mistakes compounded by stupid mistakes.
Its hard to watch

He never drives straight (ok maybe he does sometimes but the majority of times he’s not straight)

Why the refs let him away with it so many times just shows they don’t have a clue about scrums. In the absence of a specialist scrum ref then players need to take things into their own hands. If a prop drives squint, pop him up.
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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:07 pm

Has Sam Johnson even touched the ball today?

Lack of line out ball isn’t helping him
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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:08 pm

Good start to the second half. This is a great game for the neutral. Hopefully it remains that way.

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Post by BigGee Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:13 pm

That was held up

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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:13 pm

That’s held up but we don’t deserve any luck today
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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:14 pm

Knock ons though ........
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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:14 pm

Ireland's dominance at the breakdown is really becoming clear in this second half.

Scotland are working unbelievably hard just to secure their own ball. 3-4 men are clearing out 1-2 tacklers/jackalers from Ireland. By contrast, Ireland are consistently on the edge of the law by sealing off their own possession which is giving them quick, easy ball, with Scotland unable to get anywhere close to slowing it down.

The physical power imbalance is the basis of Ireland's dominance. It makes Scotland's poor lineout even more of an issue as they're desperate for something like a catch and drive to mix up the way they build a scoring position. So far, I think it's clear why Scotland are basically resorting to 'joue joue' whenever possible, as they're being physically dominated in the tackle area and their inability to play in the right areas and put the phases together means Ireland are getting more and more comfortable.

For Ireland, it's basically a perfect Schmidt-esque performance. Focus on the basics, physical power and accuracy at the breakdown and set piece, and when they get in the 22 - it's a guaranteed try.

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Post by RiscaGame Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:15 pm

I have been quite impressed with Poite today, with his call for the Russell try and not using the TMO for the first Irish try. Think he should’ve checked that though.

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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:17 pm

Any hope of Scotland winning this game relies on them completely turning around their abject display at the lineout. Some of the penalties and turnovers are inexcusable.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:19 pm

Soooo looks like we’re back to just being happy to turn up against England.

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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:19 pm

Naive from Watson there. Not listening to the ref.

He's Scotland's best player by far today. He's both the only carrying outlet who is threatening to get over the gainline, and he's the only player looking like turning over the Irish who are typically so secure over their own ball.

The rest of the team needs to help him out. At present he's the oly Scot in the forwards who is Lions quality. The rest aren't standing up.

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Post by BigGee Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:20 pm

Thankfully the ref sees that one

First decision to go our way

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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:21 pm

So let’s kick it to the corner and then lose the line out. Watch
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Post by BigGee Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:21 pm

It's definitely not our day!

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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:21 pm

Or not even make the kick
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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:22 pm

Jonny Gray off and there go his Lions hopes. Such a shame. He was immense against England. I thought it was a coming of age performance. Sadly it now looks like an exception to the rule.

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Post by BigGee Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:24 pm

Huw Jones is back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:24 pm

Welcome back Huw!

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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:24 pm

Russell also doing his best to enjoy a summer in Dubai rather than Durban (or maybe Dublin if the tour gets played up here). After the yellow card against England and the sheer lack of leadership or accuracy when Scotland are on the back foot, he's making his own weaknesses clear to see.

I feel bad being critical but it's such a disappointing showing from Scotland. They must have known they would lose the physical battle today yet they're playing like it's come as a surprise. They don't look like they prepared for it whatsoever and they're panicking as a result.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:24 pm

Huw Jones doing more in 10 seconds than the whole
Scottish back line have in 60mins
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Post by RiscaGame Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:25 pm

Nice. Was feeling that if Scotland hadn’t have scored around this period, they would’ve struggled to threaten a comeback. Be interesting to see if this swings momentum a bit now.

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Post by BigGee Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:25 pm

Back to one score, it is the hope that kills you!

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Post by TightHEAD Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:27 pm

Refs having a good game, letting it flow makes all the difference.
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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:27 pm

It's good from Huw Jones but Hogg makes that try IMO. World class, such a threat. The defence can't handle him. He puts them on the back foot and makes them miss the tackle on jONES.

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Post by BigGee Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:28 pm

Finn off for a HIA

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Post by NeilyBroon Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:29 pm

Ali price needs to be subbed
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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:30 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:Ali price needs to be subbed

He needs to be retired. He’s garbage.
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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:30 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Refs having a good game, letting it flow makes all the difference.

Agree.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 14 Mar 2021, 4:32 pm

Take the scrum my god take the scrum
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