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ENGLAND vs FRANCE - Match Thread - 13/3/21 16:45pm

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Post by TightHEAD Thu 11 Mar 2021, 11:18 am

First topic message reminder :

Starting XV

15. Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 6 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 49 caps)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 37 caps)
12. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 91 caps) (C)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 64 caps)
10. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 75 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 107 caps)

1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 65 caps)
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 42 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 46 caps)
5. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
6. Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 21 caps)
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 31 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 59 caps)

FINISHERS
16. Jamie George (Saracens, 57 caps)
17. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
19. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps)
20. Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 11 caps)
21. Dan Robson (Wasps, 10 caps)
22. Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 4 caps)
23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 50 caps

FRANCE XV

Dulin; Thomas, Vakatawa, Fickou, Penaud; Jalibert, Dupont; Baille, Marchand, Haouas; Taofifenua, Willemse; Cretin, Ollivon (capt), Alldritt.

Replacements: Chat, Gros, Aldegheri, Cazeaux, Woki, Jelonch, Serin, Ntamack.


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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:34 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:France kicking about as much as England just with more quality. Used to be a real strength of Ford but he's been poor these last 3 games.
Kicking with more smarts!

Not really kicking it's the kick chase. England's is ragged. France's hasn't been great due to the pace of the game either but they normally have someone there. England have had some kicks with nobody bothering to chase. The one with the Teddy Thomas break late in the second half. It's nearly over his head and he's back tracking onto it but no one chases. We'll gloss over the fact he looked to have a foot in touch and jump to the 50 odd easy metres because no one is putting any pressure on him.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:34 pm

tigertattie wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
BigGee wrote:No arms there fro LCD
Third time today. Brilliant player but I've no idea how he gets away with them.
Exactly, I saw three as well.

It’s outrageous. He’s going to snap someone’s leg doing this. I hate it. Just a dangerous dangerous way of tackling.
Agree. As much as I prefer him on the pitch instead of George, he can't stay on.

On the other hand, if he breaks someone's leg, it's good for my business.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:35 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:France kicking about as much as England just with more quality. Used to be a real strength of Ford but he's been poor these last 3 games. Albeit he hasn't been the primaryvkicker (slade and youngs).
Ford mostly kicks when England need to keep possession.

It's good to kick from turnover ball. The wingers won't have pushed back to field the kick.

Unfortunately the French are lethal on the counter attack and Brace is a highly emotional referee who cannot be trusted to allow England to compete when it comes to isolated players who run from deep.

Three kicks have very nearly resulted in England tries. Watson's chip ahead and two kicks in to the try zone which with a different bounce would be scores.

England need to keep chipping away with points. Don't turn down drop goal opportunities. Just stay in touch with France and France will give them try scoring opportunities as the game drags on.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:37 pm

Youngs is playing well, isn't he.

Who would have thought, it's a lot easier to play well when your pack isn't constantly giving away penalties and being consistently marched backwards...

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Post by tigertattie Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:38 pm

whatahitson wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
whatahitson wrote:And then he gives England a penalty where Curry didn't release as the tackle assist and Vunipola is lying on the wrong side. Oh dear Brace.

England fan?

Brace? I doubt it. He's Welsh.

Even though he’s Irish
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Post by tatterd Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:40 pm

whatahitson wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
whatahitson wrote:And then he gives England a penalty where Curry didn't release as the tackle assist and Vunipola is lying on the wrong side. Oh dear Brace.

England fan?

Brace? I doubt it. He's Welsh.
You really know your rugby mate well done

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Post by jimbopip Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:42 pm

As a neutral, it's a cracking game. France seem to be taking insane risks: running from their own line, dummying to kick and jinking past three men in their own half. I get the sense that France are being so blasé about taking risks because they just know they are better than England and will win. For all England have played some good rugby they have not rattled the French or made them question their right to feel so confident.
Also, Luke Cowan Dickie...did I see two no arms tackles? I think he's rather fortunate to be sans carte jaune.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:42 pm

tigertattie wrote:
whatahitson wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
whatahitson wrote:And then he gives England a penalty where Curry didn't release as the tackle assist and Vunipola is lying on the wrong side. Oh dear Brace.

England fan?

Brace? I doubt it. He's Welsh.

Even though he’s Irish

No he's Welsh.

He played international rugby for Belgium and referees for the IRFU but he's still Welsh.

Steve Walsh didn't become Australian when he no longer represented New Zealand as a ref.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:42 pm

tatterd wrote:
whatahitson wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
whatahitson wrote:And then he gives England a penalty where Curry didn't release as the tackle assist and Vunipola is lying on the wrong side. Oh dear Brace.

England fan?

Brace? I doubt it. He's Welsh.
You really know your rugby mate well done

Thanks pal.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:45 pm

jimbopip wrote:As a neutral, it's a cracking game. France seem to be taking insane risks: running from their own line, dummying to kick and jinking past three men in their own half. I get the sense that France are being so blasé about taking risks because they just know they are better than England and will win. For all England have played some good rugby they have not rattled the French or made them question their right to feel so confident.
Also, Luke Cowan Dickie...did I see two no arms tackles? I think he's rather fortunate to be sans carte jaune.
Since I am beat-dead-tired after morning Rugby practice, I am home alone with a beer, except connected with this lot and my old man connected by Zoom.
In essence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E9ydw_aDMg

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Post by tatterd Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:46 pm

whatahitson wrote:
tatterd wrote:
whatahitson wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
whatahitson wrote:And then he gives England a penalty where Curry didn't release as the tackle assist and Vunipola is lying on the wrong side. Oh dear Brace.

England fan?

Brace? I doubt it. He's Welsh.
You really know your rugby mate well done

Thanks pal.
Brace...Gauzere. Common denominator? English indiscipline.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:46 pm

That's an absolute joke. Teddy Thomas is flopped on that ball like a salmon. Never supporting his body weight.

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Post by Heaf Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:46 pm

Where was the clear release there?

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Post by miltonkeynesengland Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:47 pm

Need Lawrence to add a direct straight running threat

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:47 pm

Vakatawa, sorry, not Thomas. Straight down on to his hands, all his body weight tipped forward, never in his legs. Dreadful.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:48 pm

miltonkeynesengland wrote:Need Lawrence to add a direct straight running threat
Agree. That move failed because England were drifting and need the direct line.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:48 pm

I still think its Farrell or Slade with a big carrier...

Ironically both Slade and Darrell have had good games.

Slade has had one of his best for England..


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Post by Heaf Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:48 pm

Defo pen to England though ... and if given a prime position for a catch & drive ...


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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:49 pm

England are reluctant to move the ball wide because you can see they're still using the same attacking patterns they've been using since 2016. That's why they look good when they keep it tight but are getting read out in the midfield and out wide.

Kicking isn't a bad option. It just needs to be executed well. Get over the gainline and then put it good tactical kicks behind the French line.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:50 pm

Wilson has started the 2nd half much better. Finally getting to rucks.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:52 pm

whatahitson wrote:England are reluctant to move the ball wide because you can see they're still using the same attacking patterns they've been using since 2016.
CORRECTION. 1916, not 2016.

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Post by BamBam Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:53 pm

Jalibert is a terrific fly half

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:55 pm

BamBam wrote:Jalibert is a terrific fly half

So is Marcus Smith...oh

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:55 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
whatahitson wrote:England are reluctant to move the ball wide because you can see they're still using the same attacking patterns they've been using since 2016.
CORRECTION.  1916, not 2016.

LOL tbf the attacking patterns are nice when they run those flat and fast lines. It's very hard to defend against when the defence doesn't know what's coming. Look at how Wales couldn't manage to stop it. The problem is they're forcing the play. They managed to get that attacking pattern going in the first 5 minutes and it led to the try, eventually. The problem is England are attacking with 3-4 wide players instead of 7-8 options which makes it much easier to read in defence. Particularly when the dummy runner is just there as a token and not in with a reasonable chance of receiving the pass.

If England were able to get on a roll and go through the phases then moving the ball wide would be a good option. But French are good defensively, strong in the tackle, and more importantly they're being allowed to go beyond the ball to compete at the rucks because Brace has decided to allow it.


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Post by doctor_grey Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:57 pm

Plus the last player receiving the offload has no ruck coverage. Too frantic.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:58 pm

I would have kicked to the corner and mauled it over.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 13 Mar 2021, 5:59 pm

I'm hoping for better use of the bench than we've seen recently.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:00 pm

Yes frantic is the right word.

The balance between big power runners and keeping options spread across the line, and protecting the ball with ruck support and clearing forwards isn't quite right at the moment.

At the moment it's a risk worth taking. If England slow the ball down I can't see them grinding through the French, they're too big and powerful and the Top14 is all about that kind of arm wrestle.

I do think they need to use the drop goal as an option though. Another French counter attack try and England are nearly out of the game.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:01 pm

Another very questionable penalty at the ruck goes to France.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:02 pm

Why take that out the maul there. So unnecessary. Just keep rumbling forwards.

Ewels has had a good game IMO. Doing a reasonable George Kruis impression which is what England needed.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:03 pm

Really need George Genge earl Lawrence on ASAP.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:03 pm

And Robson.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:03 pm

Right idea by Youngs, bad execution.

Those kicks will eventually produce tries for England.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:03 pm

Lots of French errors in the past few minutes. England not taking complete advantage, for now anyway.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:05 pm

Really need those subs now.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:05 pm

The refereeing of collpases at the scrum has been similarly inconsistent.

The worst thing a referee can be is inconsistent.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:05 pm

Unforced errors culling the momentum. Really frustrating.

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Post by Heaf Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:07 pm

whatahitson wrote:Another very questionable penalty at the ruck goes to France.

He's been poor in that area for the whole game ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:07 pm

Good subs bar daly.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:07 pm

One thing to note is how little France have offered in this second half.

Yes, they remain a threat and can create something from nothing, but England's use of the ball has completely nullified their attacking threat since their try just after the restart.

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Post by tatterd Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:07 pm

whatahitson wrote:Another very questionable penalty at the ruck goes to France.
Not once have you credited France with a single piece of good play. Instead you spend every comment moaning about the referee's perceived bad calls against your team.....

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Post by king_carlos Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:07 pm

Brilliant kick from May. A good tackle from Farrell to win the ball back too. Hopefully that just settles England down.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:08 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Good subs bar daly.
Agree. Why Daly?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:09 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Good subs bar daly.
Agree.  Why Daly?

I mean I'd love it if he sets up the winner. Bit of a head scratcher on form though.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:10 pm

Daly did really well under a lot of pressure to clean that up.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:10 pm

tatterd wrote:
whatahitson wrote:Another very questionable penalty at the ruck goes to France.
Not once have you credited France with a single piece of good play. Instead you spend every comment moaning about the referee's perceived bad calls against your team.....

The great play speaks for itself. The bad decisions by the referee however can go ignored in the intensity of the game.

What have you contributed to this thread? Two comments trying to police the comment section? ENGLAND vs FRANCE - Match Thread - 13/3/21 16:45pm - Page 4 1f46e

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Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:10 pm

This could be the decisive blow.

England should have kept chipping away with drop goals and 3 pointers when they had the chance.

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ENGLAND vs FRANCE - Match Thread - 13/3/21 16:45pm - Page 4 Empty Re: ENGLAND vs FRANCE - Match Thread - 13/3/21 16:45pm

Post by doctor_grey Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:11 pm

Wow. England are giving away a lot of breakdown pens. Fundamentals....

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ENGLAND vs FRANCE - Match Thread - 13/3/21 16:45pm - Page 4 Empty Re: ENGLAND vs FRANCE - Match Thread - 13/3/21 16:45pm

Post by whatahitson Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:12 pm

Daly already showing his class. Malins was decent but also looked rocked a few times by the intensity of test rugby.

Great call by those who think Daly's ENGLAND vs FRANCE - Match Thread - 13/3/21 16:45pm - Page 4 1f4a9. As per.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 13 Mar 2021, 6:12 pm

Lawrence anyone?

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