Lions Watch: Six Nations Report

The Oracle wrote:I don’t think it’s amusing per se. I think it’s natural and expected.

Mr Bounce wrote:

The Oracle wrote:I don’t think it’s amusing per se. I think it’s natural and expected.

Very true. I am not convinced by May's form this season myself (and I am an England fan) and whilst I recognise Adams' ability to score tries there's something about the way he carries himself that just doesn't sit well with me. Can't put my finger on it - it's probably because I am an England fan  

I still think barring injury that Gatland will choose both of them, and if Adams scores the try that wins us the series, I will cheer him as loudly as anyone.

geoff999rugby wrote:Watson defensive positioning leaves something to be desired

May is a poor kicker, also he seems to have attitude problem.
I hastened to say not in terms of commitment but he gets down when things are going right.

They are weaknesses to me

whatahitson wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

whatahitson wrote:I also think Maitland is perhaps a bit too long in the tooth for a back 3 player. If he's going to take a Kiwi in this position it'll be James Lowe.

Have you watched Lowe this 6N? Nowhere near.....

Yes very good in attack big clearing boot and pretty much the only Irish player that posed any real threat against defences other than Italy.

Gatland wrote:We know that Liam is an exciting, talented player but every now and then he makes a poor decision which has resulted in a penalty or yellow card, as we saw in the Blues game. This has been costly in the past. I spoke to him about an incident in the Crusaders game, where it appears he has put a forearm into the back of a Crusaders player on the ground, after slipping a tackle. I told him: 'If the TMO sees that, it's a yellow card.' Liam was adamant that it was unintentional, but it didn't appear that way to me or anyone else I showed the clip to.
So I said to him; 'Look we've picked you, but you've got to keep a cool head. You've got to be calm and your decision making has got to be right.' I highlighted a chipped kick he opted for last night off a turnover, when he hadn't scanned the pitch. He should've put the ball through the hands, gone himself or kicked long. I said: 'You're better than that.'
But he caused the Chiefs problems with his footwork and we just feel that if we're going to beat the All Blacks, we have to unlock them with a bit of magic from our players.

RiscaGame wrote:Yeah, I think you’ve just got to take him as he is. It’s evident since Williams has come back into the Wales team, that we carry a bit more of a threat in our back three (Adams being in over Amos helps too).

I don’t think Gatland would ever want Liam Williams to lose his edge and he’s pretty nailed on to tour (in my opinion), but I do think he may have things like that (and his ban leading into the tournament) in the back of his mind, in borderline test match selections.

RiscaGame wrote:I think playing North as a centre may help him. He's obviously a big lad, but I do agree he didn't seem to use his size as often on the wing, if he was shut down. He seems to be carrying better at the minute, in tighter spaces.

lostinwales wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Yeah, I think you’ve just got to take him as he is. It’s evident since Williams has come back into the Wales team, that we carry a bit more of a threat in our back three (Adams being in over Amos helps too).

I don’t think Gatland would ever want Liam Williams to lose his edge and he’s pretty nailed on to tour (in my opinion), but I do think he may have things like that (and his ban leading into the tournament) in the back of his mind, in borderline test match selections.

Linking in to what Oracle was saying about how we rate our own players is how we rate those players who you feel cause the most problems. For me with Wales the back that I respect the most is Williams, because he is consistently capable of causing damage. A player like North is a one trick pony. It is a hell of a trick, but if you can shut him down before he builds up any speed and he's not so dangerous. Doesn't work with Williams.

LordDowlais wrote:Well, according to Johnny Sexton, Wales players will dominate the Lions. Make of that what you will.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Well, according to Johnny Sexton, Wales players will dominate the Lions. Make of that what you will.

Dependent, he says, IF Wales complete the Grand Slam.
The title, as usual, from click bait wol is misleading.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

whatahitson wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

whatahitson wrote:I also think Maitland is perhaps a bit too long in the tooth for a back 3 player. If he's going to take a Kiwi in this position it'll be James Lowe.

Have you watched Lowe this 6N? Nowhere near.....

Yes very good in attack big clearing boot and pretty much the only Irish player that posed any real threat against defences other than Italy.

Let's just wash over his turnstile defence

LordDowlais wrote:Well, according to Johnny Sexton, Wales players will dominate the Lions. Make of that what you will.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:I think playing North as a centre may help him. He's obviously a big lad, but I do agree he didn't seem to use his size as often on the wing, if he was shut down. He seems to be carrying better at the minute, in tighter spaces.

Problem has always been trying to get the ball into North's hands. His workrate off the wing has always been poor which is a shame because he's so fast and powerful coming off the inside shoulder (as made famous by Ashton but done by so many) or late to the line he'd breeze past anything that wasn't a good tackle. Which when you come late to the line at pace the defence struggle to line up. 

At 13 he might benefit from a lack of top quality and a lot of players with injuries or injury history in terms of Lions selection. His defensive positioning looks a bit ropey to me, very much like a winger defending the 13 channel. He's fast so can recover but up against a good 13 he could be exposed. If he can keep Vakatawa quiet Vs France then that will show he's learning well how to defend at 13, it is the hardest position to defend on the field.

The Oracle wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Yeah, I think you’ve just got to take him as he is. It’s evident since Williams has come back into the Wales team, that we carry a bit more of a threat in our back three (Adams being in over Amos helps too).

I don’t think Gatland would ever want Liam Williams to lose his edge and he’s pretty nailed on to tour (in my opinion), but I do think he may have things like that (and his ban leading into the tournament) in the back of his mind, in borderline test match selections.

Linking in to what Oracle was saying about how we rate our own players is how we rate those players who you feel cause the most problems. For me with Wales the back that I respect the most is Williams, because he is consistently capable of causing damage. A player like North is a one trick pony. It is a hell of a trick, but if you can shut him down before he builds up any speed and he's not so dangerous. Doesn't work with Williams.

It's always been one of life's mysteries to me how someone like Liam Williams, all skin and bone, can seem to make yards and get over the gainline in heavy traffic, yes someone the size and shape of Adam Jones could never EVER make yards and just went down like someone had tied his laces even against the smallest of tacklers!

Soul Requiem wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Watson defensive positioning leaves something to be desired

May is a poor kicker, also he seems to have attitude problem.
I hastened to say not in terms of commitment but he gets down when things are going right.

They are weaknesses to me

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Watson defensive positioning leaves something to be desired

May is a poor kicker, also he seems to have attitude problem.
I hastened to say not in terms of commitment but he gets down when things are going right.

They are weaknesses to me

Just popped up on my twitter feed today.

https://twitter.com/EnglandRugby/status/1372462964821925894?s=19

You can see from that video that May seems under prepared with an attitude problem and that the coaches are distinctly unimpressed.

Soul Requiem wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:May showed just how class he is on Saturday.

He's the first choice winger for the lions.

May made more metres than anyone in the France game, and for the first time in a while was causing havoc on the kick chase. Watson was sublime. Both are complete players.

Complete players ???
Sorry that is nonsense
Good players yes, but there are other players as good if not better

There are no wingers available with a better all round game than either May or Watson, Adams is also in the conversation to tour.

bsando wrote:Without starting a massive argument, how can Gatland justify a large English contingent after today's English performance?

Ireland have totally outplayed England despite a red card and now a yellow. Wales comfortably won against England as did Scotland despite the closer scoreline. England have been ill disciplined in all of their games against the home nations rivals.  They've just not been playing well for whatever reason apart from last weekend against France.  

Surely this could be the lowest English Lions representation in the professional era? Or will Gatland see it differently?

RiscaGame wrote:Because Gatland will probably get more out of them. They’re good players, just poorly coached.

A lot of English players thrived in NZ under Gatland. He will remember that at least.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Because Gatland will probably get more out of them. They’re good players, just poorly coached.

A lot of English players thrived in NZ under Gatland. He will remember that at least.

Rubbish. Gatland can't touch Jones as a coach.

Engine#4 wrote:From an Irish perspective I think we will see at most;

Furlong - best tighthead of the 4 nations.
Ryan - does it all.
Beirne - in the form of his life. Can play second-row or backrow.
Stander - physically effective. In better form than Vunipola.
Murray - lack of competition outside of Wales.
Henshaw - form 12 of the 4 nations.

TJ wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Because Gatland will probably get more out of them. They’re good players, just poorly coached.

A lot of English players thrived in NZ under Gatland. He will remember that at least.

Rubbish. Gatland can't touch Jones as a coach.

Errmmm - after todays performance from England?  EJ must take a lot of the blame for them

Engine#4 wrote:From an Irish perspective I think we will see at most;

Furlong - best tighthead of the 4 nations.
Ryan - does it all.
Beirne - in the form of his life. Can play second-row or backrow.
Stander - physically effective. In better form than Vunipola.
Murray - lack of competition outside of Wales.
Henshaw - form 12 of the 4 nations.

Maine man wrote:

Engine#4 wrote:From an Irish perspective I think we will see at most;

Furlong - best tighthead of the 4 nations.
Ryan - does it all.
Beirne - in the form of his life. Can play second-row or backrow.
Stander - physically effective. In better form than Vunipola.
Murray - lack of competition outside of Wales.
Henshaw - form 12 of the 4 nations.

I think Henderson, Porter will both be in with a shout. Possibly Ringrose due to the lack/poor form of outside centres.
And after today, I can see Sexton touring.

bsando wrote:Without starting a massive argument, how can Gatland justify a large English contingent after today's English performance?

Ireland have totally outplayed England despite a red card and now a yellow. Wales comfortably won against England as did Scotland despite the closer scoreline. England have been ill disciplined in all of their games against the home nations rivals. They've just not been playing well for whatever reason apart from last weekend against France.  

Surely this could be the lowest English Lions representation in the professional era? Or will Gatland see it differently?