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Lions Watch: Six Nations Report

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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 5:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well we're nearly done with the Six Nations so if the Lions goes ahead who do you like the look of and who do you think will be touring?

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Post by The Oracle Tue 13 Apr 2021, 10:18 am

Lets not forget that some coaches who were approached have made themselves unavailable. Borthwick and Farrell would have evened up the national split. Can't moan if they don't want to go and others are approached instead.
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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 13 Apr 2021, 10:46 am

I think the coaches are a bit meh, well mainly looking at McBryde here but we all know he's always been Gatland's man in tow who is probably unable to think for himself. Interesting to see how Tandy and Townsend step up. Great for Tandy btw, considering he could have sulked but chose to get back into coaching and has done really well.

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Post by doctor_grey Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:05 am

RDW wrote:Townsend and Jenkins aside, it does have a whiff of who was available as opposed to who was the first choice. Tandy has revolutionised Scotland's defence though so has a lot of credit too.

The one thing missing for me is a lineout specialist - hopefully Paul O'Connell can get involved as a Lions legend and set piece expert. Gatland said they might be adding more nearer the time.
Agree, but I think the coaches are fine and will do very well. O'Connell would really help the lineout, so to me, things are coming together nicely.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:08 am

I think rotating the coaches will be a positive on the squad. I imagine it must be a bit like groundhog day going back after 4 years and seeing the same faces and methods etc.

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Post by 123456789. Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:29 am

The Oracle wrote:
123456789. wrote:The Times are reporting that Tandy and McBryde have got the call up. So led by an ex-Welsh coach, with two Welshmen in the rest of the backroom team. One based in Ireland and one in Scotland. With a Scottish backs coach. One would bet on a squad that would reflect the Six Nations. A predominance of Welsh players, the champions; with a smattering of Scots and Irish with a few English extras.


Something tells me you’re not too happy about this rumour!

I'm perfectly happy with it if that's the break up of the tour party. Wales won the Six Nations.

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Post by BamBam Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:34 am

Let's hope Pascal is refereeing all the games then Run

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:37 am

At least we have a tmo this time albeit horrendous mistakes can obviously happen. How different it could have been on that last tour.

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Post by 123456789. Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:43 am

South Africa haven't played a game since 2019 so the traditional Lions weakness in bringing players together to play a settled side does not really apply. As such, I don't really understand the negativity. I think the Lions are in a really strong place going into this tour. It's hard to think of many positions where there aren't three very good players who can compete for a place. I don't think Jamie Ritchie will tour, for example, I think there are better options at blindside. Equally, I have no doubt that if Scotland were to play South Africa in the autumn that Jamie Ritchie would play unbelievably well and I'd have no fear of him being outclassed.

I would rather the coaching set up was not predominantly Welsh but it is because Wales were the best team in the Six Nations. I would rather it was predominantly Scottish because I would have liked Scotland to be the best team in Europe.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:44 am

BamBam wrote:Shame the SA sides aren’t going to be playing in the Rainbow Cup. Would have been interesting to see how Blockhead’s selection would have been impacted to watching the Welsh sides getting absolutely pumped by the future opposition for the Lions

Why just the Welsh sides ?

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:46 am

BamBam wrote:Shame the SA sides aren’t going to be playing in the Rainbow Cup. Would have been interesting to see how Blockhead’s selection would have been impacted to watching the Welsh sides getting absolutely pumped by the future opposition for the Lions

Gammon is off again, bless. HeRe Is SoMe ReAdInG fOr YoU? (Did I go this right? I'm having gammon today too, I'll keep you in mind).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56225219

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Post by BamBam Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:47 am

Oh look, the sensitive little lambs have got their panties in a twist again


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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:49 am

123456789. wrote:South Africa haven't played a game since 2019 so the traditional Lions weakness in bringing players together to play a settled side does not really apply. As such, I don't really understand the negativity. I think the Lions are in a really strong place going into this tour. It's hard to think of many positions where there aren't three very good players who can compete for a place. I don't think Jamie Ritchie will tour, for example, I think there are better options at blindside. Equally, I have no doubt that if Scotland were to play South Africa in the autumn that Jamie Ritchie would play unbelievably well and I'd have no fear of him being outclassed.

I would rather the coaching set up was not predominantly Welsh but it is because Wales were the best team in the Six Nations. I would rather it was predominantly Scottish because I would have liked Scotland to be the best team in Europe.

Think you'll get more than two players then? Very Happy

I think that's inevitable now, but I would have picked a lot more than previous tours anyway.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:52 am

I think Finn Russel will tour now that Gregor Townsend is backs coach, also perhaps Duhan van der Merwe will go as well.

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Post by 123456789. Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:52 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
123456789. wrote:South Africa haven't played a game since 2019 so the traditional Lions weakness in bringing players together to play a settled side does not really apply. As such, I don't really understand the negativity. I think the Lions are in a really strong place going into this tour. It's hard to think of many positions where there aren't three very good players who can compete for a place. I don't think Jamie Ritchie will tour, for example, I think there are better options at blindside. Equally, I have no doubt that if Scotland were to play South Africa in the autumn that Jamie Ritchie would play unbelievably well and I'd have no fear of him being outclassed.

I would rather the coaching set up was not predominantly Welsh but it is because Wales were the best team in the Six Nations. I would rather it was predominantly Scottish because I would have liked Scotland to be the best team in Europe.

Think you'll get more than two players then? Very Happy

I think that's inevitable now, but I would have picked a lot more than previous tours anyway.

Hopefully there'll be some players left for Scotland's tour of Eastern Europe led by Ally McCoist as backs coach and a chap with a Scotch pie who looks like he knows what he'd do in a scrum in charge of the forwards.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:53 am

BamBam wrote:Oh look, the sensitive little gammons have got their panties in a twist again


Fixed that for you.

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Post by RDW Tue 13 Apr 2021, 11:54 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:Oh look, the sensitive little gammons have got their panties in a twist again


Fixed that for you.

Guys can you give it a break

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Post by themoondude Tue 13 Apr 2021, 12:26 pm

123456789. wrote:The Times are reporting that Tandy and McBryde have got the call up. So led by an ex-Welsh coach, with two Welshmen in the rest of the backroom team. One based in Ireland and one in Scotland. With a Scottish backs coach. One would bet on a squad that would reflect the Six Nations. A predominance of Welsh players, the champions; with a smattering of Scots and Irish with a few English extras.

The coaches are the next best options after Farrell, Edwards, and the England coaches ruled themselves out. It's far from ideal but 3 of the 4 countries are covered.

If the squad is only comprised of 'a few extras' from the world cup finalists they may as well not bother turning up. The truth is there will be more English players on tour than from any other country.

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Post by TightHEAD Tue 13 Apr 2021, 12:43 pm

themoondude wrote:The truth is there will be more English players on tour than from any other country.

I really hope not.

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Post by flyhalffactory Tue 13 Apr 2021, 12:43 pm

themoondude wrote:
123456789. wrote:The Times are reporting that Tandy and McBryde have got the call up. So led by an ex-Welsh coach, with two Welshmen in the rest of the backroom team. One based in Ireland and one in Scotland. With a Scottish backs coach. One would bet on a squad that would reflect the Six Nations. A predominance of Welsh players, the champions; with a smattering of Scots and Irish with a few English extras.

The coaches are the next best options after Farrell, Edwards, and the England coaches ruled themselves out. It's far from ideal but 3 of the 4 countries are covered.

If the squad is only comprised of 'a few extras' from the world cup finalists they may as well not bother turning up. The truth is there will be more English players on tour than from any other country.

The coaches are the next best options after Farrell, Edwards, and the England coaches ruled themselves out.

In your opinion

By the way the world cup final was in Nov 2019 (close on 21 months by the time the Lions games are played) Eng played SA who coincidentally are the Lions opponents and we know how that game panned out. So you are talking about a game nearly two years ago and the players you are advocating going were soundly trounced by our Lions opponents, however one week earlier SA almost lost against a depleted Welsh 23.
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Post by themoondude Tue 13 Apr 2021, 1:10 pm

Yes my opinion. What's yours?

If only a few 'extra' English players are going to tour, it might be a good idea to make a list from the group of players who have won three six nations titles, one autumn nations cup, and reached a world cup final in the last 5 years. Who will be the 'extras' and who will be staying at home so lots of Scottish, Welsh, and Irish players can play instead?

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Post by The Oracle Tue 13 Apr 2021, 1:10 pm

123456789. wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
123456789. wrote:The Times are reporting that Tandy and McBryde have got the call up. So led by an ex-Welsh coach, with two Welshmen in the rest of the backroom team. One based in Ireland and one in Scotland. With a Scottish backs coach. One would bet on a squad that would reflect the Six Nations. A predominance of Welsh players, the champions; with a smattering of Scots and Irish with a few English extras.


Something tells me you’re not too happy about this rumour!

I'm perfectly happy with it if that's the break up of the tour party. Wales won the Six Nations.

It was the way you deliberately singled out the nationality of the coaches. Seemed to be implying something. Apologies if I’ve read too much into it Hug

Have to say though, Wales might have won the 6 nations but not with any of these coaches (well, ok Neil Jenkins was there). Not saying they should have taken any. We need full representation from all nations, or as much as possible given availability.
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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 13 Apr 2021, 1:36 pm

Still that ongoing dislike for all things Scottish!

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Post by Old Man Tue 13 Apr 2021, 1:39 pm

This Lions tour is going to be very interesting, the Springboks are an unknown this time round, since Rassie took over and the overseas selections are now completely unrestricted it will be the first time outside the RWC that a Springbok squad will be selected from so many different leagues, who won’t have spent a significant time in preparation.

The question is how well will Nienaber be able to gel them as a unit, how well they can be prepared and more interesting is howwide will Nienaber cast the net.

Will they look at Players like Esterhuizen, Coetzee, Reinach etc for selection.

Then there are the few close to the end of their careers like Vermeulen, Frans and Morne Steyn, you could also include Pienaar, who are again playing in SA.

Considering that Pollard might not recover from his injury, there might just be eyes cast to Morne Steyn as his experience and cool head might trump the inconsistency of Elton Jantjies. The other options such as Damian Willemse and Curwin Bosch has shown too much immaturity and inconsistency to take on the Lions.

So flyhalf would be a major concern for Nienaber.

There is a chance that we might see a few new faces such as Wandisile Simelani, and outside center who has been a great playmaker for the Lions.

He is onlu 23 years old, but consistent and a smart player.

Problem for him is the SA midfield have the current incumbents De Allende, Am, Esterhuizen and a few others to get past.
Aphilile Fassi from the Sharks is also a young player showing oodles of talent, tall, rangy, fast. He comes up against Willie le Roux and Warrick Gelant with Frans Steyn as the likely bench player due to his versatility.

Ox Nche might crack a nod at loosehead as well.

Overall the Boks have depth, other than at 10, and it could mean that the relatively inexperienced back line could look a little leaner in international caps come the first test


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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 13 Apr 2021, 1:45 pm

Biltong, I was going to ask if you thought Coetzee and du Plessis (both returning home) would be in contention, but I guess you know as much as we do. Esterhuizen is a huge centre but surely won't take the jersey from de Allende, and is he capped?

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Post by flyhalffactory Tue 13 Apr 2021, 2:45 pm

themoondude wrote:Yes my opinion. What's yours?

If only a few 'extra' English players are going to tour, it might be a good idea to make a list from the group of players who have won three six nations titles, one autumn nations cup, and reached a world cup final in the last 5 years. Who will be the 'extras' and who will be staying at home so lots of Scottish, Welsh, and Irish players can play instead?

Why talk about 5 years ago? or even 4,3,2 years ago......I mean there has been at least one Lions tour done and dusted in that time!

Less than 18 months ago England trounced NZ, reached a WC final then got battered by our Lions opponents and we know the scoreline flattered them, where a week before that, SA were lucky to get to the WC final because an injury ravaged Wales took them to the wire.

The ANC was used used by everyone except for England as a development campaign especially Gregors Autumn picks, where Pivac's Wales was a totally different animal in the ANC 2020 as opposed to the 6Ns 2021 as was England ANC 2020 v 6Ns 2021 (almost the same squad).

Forget about country of birth, Gats & Co will pick the best players for the Lions job.... "form", "experience", "attitude" "strategy" will come into the equation, we know there will be a slimmed down 36 and there is going to be some close calls with relieved and disappointed players

We all want our players on the plane, and sometimes our natural bias blinds us. Personally I am a big believer in playing form players but as we know a Lions tour is much more than that.

My opinion is it's a nightmare to choose as we have so many good players in most key positions e.g. May (best winger in the world) v Adams (WC19 record try scorer) v Liam Williams.... Watson v LRZ v Earls......then you have the 6Ns form winger DvdM who you could argue with his size, power, defence and nose for a try should be first in the queue
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Post by Old Man Tue 13 Apr 2021, 2:52 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Biltong, I was going to ask if you thought Coetzee and du Plessis (both returning home) would be in contention, but I guess you know as much as we do. Esterhuizen is a huge centre but surely won't take the jersey from de Allende, and is he capped?

I assume you are talking about Bismarck?

Coetzee could well be, Bismarck no chance, we have younger hookers in form, Malcolm Marx and Bongi Mbonambi are the incumbents, then you still have Akker v d Merwe in great form.

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Post by Old Man Tue 13 Apr 2021, 2:53 pm

Esterhuizen is capped, remember the infamous shoulder charge on him in 2018 by Farrell?

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Post by BamBam Tue 13 Apr 2021, 2:56 pm

Just went back and looked at the previous Test squads from the past two tours. No wonder the Scots are annoyed, the best they've had is 1 bench player in each test in 2013, and none in 2017! Hopefully they get a fair crack of the whip this time

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Post by themoondude Tue 13 Apr 2021, 2:58 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
themoondude wrote:Yes my opinion. What's yours?

If only a few 'extra' English players are going to tour, it might be a good idea to make a list from the group of players who have won three six nations titles, one autumn nations cup, and reached a world cup final in the last 5 years. Who will be the 'extras' and who will be staying at home so lots of Scottish, Welsh, and Irish players can play instead?

Why talk about 5 years ago? or even 4,3,2 years ago......I mean there has been at least one Lions tour done and dusted in that time!

Why talk about 5 years ago? Because it shows the achievements and abilities of players available to the Lions.

Can you provide a small list of English players who will be the 'extras' on this Lions tour and who will be touring ahead of them? It might help to really think about how likely it is that the Lions will be dominated by the Welsh with only a handful of English players as their tackle bag holders.

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