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Lions Watch: Six Nations Report

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Post by whatahitson Sun 14 Mar 2021, 5:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well we're nearly done with the Six Nations so if the Lions goes ahead who do you like the look of and who do you think will be touring?

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 06 Apr 2021, 11:28 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
alive555 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This place is a hoot, it really is.

Last time the Welsh players shouldn't have gone because Wales finished below Scotland in the 6N, now this time around, it's because the Welsh regions are not very good.

The underlying resentment to towards Wales on this forum is an elephant in the room that the MOD's do not want to touch on but I will.

No doubt this post will be removed, or altered, or I will get a ban. But I'm sorry I just need to get it off my chest.

Scotland have two players who will deffo tour. Hogg and Watson. If anybody else goes, they will be midweek players, I will suspect that will not be many.

The Lions will be made up mostly of players from Wales, Ireland and England, simply put, because they are better. I am sorry if this upsets people on here, but I am speaking rationally.

I will not be put off if Scotland have a larger representation than previous years either, but I'm sorry, I do not think there will be.

So Hogg and Watson to start, and Id confidently say quite possibly DVM. Sounds reasonable. Thanks for that . Wonderful stuff

How many Welsh players do you think will start ?

Honestly, there is only Faletau that I would say, without question, will start. Every other potential position has, imo, legitimate alternative players that could be selected.
That does not mean if Gats selects 6 other welsh players to start I would be annoyed as I know they will be quality but not necessarily my choice.
Turning the question around I would say Itoje for England and Hogg for Scotland.


Yes I agree with this as well, but if I dare mention this about another nation, then woe betide me. Rolling Eyes

But I still think AWJ and Josh Adams are likely starters.

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Post by Old Man Tue 06 Apr 2021, 11:43 am

The Oracle wrote:
Old Man wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
Old Man wrote:I have said this before, and I will say it again.

Gatland in 50/50 selection issues will go for players he knows well, it is natural, every coach does that.

So expect any 50/50 decision to go the way of a Welsh player.

Secondly, Gatland knows how to play SA, it isn’t the English way, it is the Welsh way. So he will look for players that fit that style.


The Welsh way under Gatland?  Because we have moved on to play a different way now under Pivac.  Under Gats we used to score amongst the fewest tries of the tournament but sometimes still win.  Under Pivac we scored the most tries we ever have in the tournament.  There's a marked difference in the way we attack now and a move away from Gatland's structured and 'zonal' gameplan.  So we're not really playing Gatland rugby currently.  I guess the players could go back to old Gatland rugby but I'm not sure they're in the same boat as they were last tour.

The Chiefs have been underperforming badly under Gatland, they have been on their poorest run of form for a long time, so the new way isn’t going to be the style Gatland will perform with the Lions.

Pivac isn’t the Lions coach, so that is irrelevant.

Sorry Old Man, I perhaps misunderstood your original point.  I thought you were saying that some of the 50/50 calls may go Wales' way because they play the Welsh way which is the best way to play against South Africa?  I was just wondering if you meant the way Wales played South Africa under Gatland which was reasonably successful?  I mentioned Pivac because we don't play the reasonably successful Gatland way any more since changing coach, and haven't played SA under Pivac yet so I'm not sure that we can judge whether our way (current way) is the best way to play SA.

No worries Oracle, the selection going Wales’ way is purely because he knows those players better, I have seen many a South African coach going overseas and they immediately recruit from SA.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 06 Apr 2021, 11:45 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
alive555 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This place is a hoot, it really is.

Last time the Welsh players shouldn't have gone because Wales finished below Scotland in the 6N, now this time around, it's because the Welsh regions are not very good.

The underlying resentment to towards Wales on this forum is an elephant in the room that the MOD's do not want to touch on but I will.

No doubt this post will be removed, or altered, or I will get a ban. But I'm sorry I just need to get it off my chest.

Scotland have two players who will deffo tour. Hogg and Watson. If anybody else goes, they will be midweek players, I will suspect that will not be many.

The Lions will be made up mostly of players from Wales, Ireland and England, simply put, because they are better. I am sorry if this upsets people on here, but I am speaking rationally.

I will not be put off if Scotland have a larger representation than previous years either, but I'm sorry, I do not think there will be.

So Hogg and Watson to start, and Id confidently say quite possibly DVM. Sounds reasonable. Thanks for that . Wonderful stuff

How many Welsh players do you think will start ?

Honestly, there is only Faletau that I would say, without question, will start. Every other potential position has, imo, legitimate alternative players that could be selected.
That does not mean if Gats selects 6 other welsh players to start I would be annoyed as I know they will be quality but not necessarily my choice.
Turning the question around I would say Itoje for England and Hogg for Scotland.

I really don't see this as being as clear cut, I think Billy V has a strong claim.

For me, only Hogg, Itoje and Furlong are pretty secure in their respective positions.

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Post by alive555 Tue 06 Apr 2021, 12:33 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
alive555 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This place is a hoot, it really is.

Last time the Welsh players shouldn't have gone because Wales finished below Scotland in the 6N, now this time around, it's because the Welsh regions are not very good.

The underlying resentment to towards Wales on this forum is an elephant in the room that the MOD's do not want to touch on but I will.

No doubt this post will be removed, or altered, or I will get a ban. But I'm sorry I just need to get it off my chest.

Scotland have two players who will deffo tour. Hogg and Watson. If anybody else goes, they will be midweek players, I will suspect that will not be many.

The Lions will be made up mostly of players from Wales, Ireland and England, simply put, because they are better. I am sorry if this upsets people on here, but I am speaking rationally.

I will not be put off if Scotland have a larger representation than previous years either, but I'm sorry, I do not think there will be.

So Hogg and Watson to start, and Id confidently say quite possibly DVM. Sounds reasonable. Thanks for that . Wonderful stuff

How many Welsh players do you think will start ?

Will, and should is quite different . Gatland is the coach so for sure hes going to do what Gatland does which is to play who he knows first in every instance, unless totally necessary. So he will pick Welsh first, and then fill in the gaps

So my guess is there will about 8 starters from Wales, namely.

Wyn Jones, Owens, AWJ, Tipuric, Faletau, Biggar, North (OC) and Liam Williams (wing).

That leaves max 7 spots for everyone else

Remove the next 3 almost certainties

Hogg at FB
Furlong at TH
Henshaw at C

4 left

Likely

Itoje at Lock
Murray at SC

2 left

Watson/DVM/RZ/Adams/May on the other wing
Curry/ Beirne/Watson/Stander at Flanker

So in summary the totals are -

Wales = 8 - 9
Ireland  = 3-4
Scotland = 1-3
England = 1-3




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Post by BamBam Tue 06 Apr 2021, 12:37 pm

Well that’s depressing

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 06 Apr 2021, 1:01 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Go and read the last Lions tour thread.

It was all about how AWJ shouldn't have gone and "insert scottish players name here" should have.
It was all about how Dan Biggar should not have gone and Finn Russel should have.

I could go on. But I will save you the bother, just read these:-

https://www.606v2.com/t65580-british-irish-lions-squad-2017

https://www.606v2.com/t65938-lions-pack-awj-criticism-and-an-alternative-view

Your point is what exactly?

Based on form in 2017 I think there was a strong argument for Jonny Gray going on tour instead of AWJ whilst going for Russell instead of Biggar is a styles argument. I don't see how either opinion is anti welsh.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 06 Apr 2021, 1:03 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Go and read the last Lions tour thread.

It was all about how AWJ shouldn't have gone and "insert scottish players name here" should have.
It was all about how Dan Biggar should not have gone and Finn Russel should have.

I could go on. But I will save you the bother, just read these:-

https://www.606v2.com/t65580-british-irish-lions-squad-2017

https://www.606v2.com/t65938-lions-pack-awj-criticism-and-an-alternative-view

Your point is what exactly?

Based on form in 2017 I think there was a strong argument for Jonny Gray going on tour instead of AWJ whilst going for Russell instead of Biggar is a styles argument. I don't see how either opinion is anti welsh.

Does the 6N logic from then still stand now ?

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Post by flyhalffactory Tue 06 Apr 2021, 1:03 pm

alive555 wrote:So my guess is there will about 8 starters from Wales, namely.
Wyn Jones, Owens, AWJ, Tipuric, Faletau, Biggar, North (OC) and Liam Williams (wing).

Couple of things
1. Love your analysis and train of thought
2. I can only speak for myself but if in Lions mode, then I am a Lions then a Scot. So if I think Liam Williams is a better FB (for the Lions) than Hoggy then I will say, that doesn't make me anti-Scottish, or if I say Sexton should be ahead of Biggar/Russell/Ford that doesn't make me Pro-Irish
3. Personally I would absolutely start..... 7 Tipuric, 10 Biggar, 13 North or Harris but tbh Harris won't tour even though he has had an outstanding 2021 6Ns campaign and for Gloucester in 2020/21 and I'll think Gatland will build his team around Curry at 6 or 7 and Sexton at 10, so he has to make a massive call on AWJ/Itoje to accommodate Beirne (who has to start) in the engine room. I think Biggar definitely and Tips probably will lose out but might make the bench

But a good post mate
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Post by LordDowlais Tue 06 Apr 2021, 1:11 pm

Liam Williams will not be a starter, on the wing or at full back.

We all know it will be Hogg at full back, and I would start Josh Adams and Johnny May on the wings.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 06 Apr 2021, 1:40 pm

alive555 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This place is a hoot, it really is.

Last time the Welsh players shouldn't have gone because Wales finished below Scotland in the 6N, now this time around, it's because the Welsh regions are not very good.

The underlying resentment to towards Wales on this forum is an elephant in the room that the MOD's do not want to touch on but I will.

No doubt this post will be removed, or altered, or I will get a ban. But I'm sorry I just need to get it off my chest.

Scotland have two players who will deffo tour. Hogg and Watson. If anybody else goes, they will be midweek players, I will suspect that will not be many.

The Lions will be made up mostly of players from Wales, Ireland and England, simply put, because they are better. I am sorry if this upsets people on here, but I am speaking rationally.

I will not be put off if Scotland have a larger representation than previous years either, but I'm sorry, I do not think there will be.

So Hogg and Watson to start, and Id confidently say quite possibly DVM. Sounds reasonable. Thanks for that . Wonderful stuff

He isn’t far wrong though. Hogg, Watson and possibly VDM is about right too, so not sure what that ya’ll are arguing about. There’s also potential for Gray to force his way into the test team but I doubt Gatland sees it that way. I doubt there would be many (if any) Scotland front 5 players Gatland was considering for the test team. Just trying to assume what he’s thinking but in the past he has alluded to Scotland being inconsistent, and we seen more of the same this season.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 06 Apr 2021, 1:41 pm

Wasn't AW Jones injured during the 6Ns in 2017? It all comes back round to form and when you judge it. Is it the club season from now, was it the 6Ns was it the previous 9 months or so where Gatland has had time away from his day to day job to scout players? Is it heavily weighted to away games.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 06 Apr 2021, 1:45 pm

Old Man wrote:I have said this before, and I will say it again.

Gatland in 50/50 selection issues will go for players he knows well, it is natural, every coach does that.

So expect any 50/50 decision to go the way of a Welsh player.

Secondly, Gatland knows how to play SA, it isn’t the English way, it is the Welsh way. So he will look for players that fit that style.

Yes he will. It will include Sarries and Ireland players, probably not as many Welsh players as people believe.

The way Gatland beat SA was just to shut them down and play low risk rugby, often relying on individual brilliance from our halfbacks and some others. It didn’t always pay off. Low risk against a team like SA often meant boring and low scoring rugby.

If you’re looking to match SA the biggest and most physical will be picked. If I could think of some players that are physical but also offer a lot more then you’re looking at Furlong, Beirne, Stander, Faletau  and Watson as test starters.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 06 Apr 2021, 1:52 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Go and read the last Lions tour thread.

It was all about how AWJ shouldn't have gone and "insert scottish players name here" should have.
It was all about how Dan Biggar should not have gone and Finn Russel should have.

I could go on. But I will save you the bother, just read these:-

https://www.606v2.com/t65580-british-irish-lions-squad-2017

https://www.606v2.com/t65938-lions-pack-awj-criticism-and-an-alternative-view

Your point is what exactly?

Based on form in 2017 I think there was a strong argument for Jonny Gray going on tour instead of AWJ whilst going for Russell instead of Biggar is a styles argument. I don't see how either opinion is anti welsh.

I guess you weren’t active on forums during this tour. Admittedly, the aggro towards Wales players was not mostly coming from Scots. I don’t even remember who was injured or what not. I think Gatland put out the best team he could, very Sarries dominant as expected. Some players got a fair crack and failed miserably. This year it seems closer and the team should be more evenly spread from all 4 nations, imo.

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Post by Collapse2005 Tue 06 Apr 2021, 1:53 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Old Man wrote:I have said this before, and I will say it again.

Gatland in 50/50 selection issues will go for players he knows well, it is natural, every coach does that.

So expect any 50/50 decision to go the way of a Welsh player.

Secondly, Gatland knows how to play SA, it isn’t the English way, it is the Welsh way. So he will look for players that fit that style.

Yes he will. It will include Sarries and Ireland players, probably not as many Welsh players as people believe.

The way Gatland beat SA was just to shut them down and play low risk rugby, often relying on individual brilliance from our halfbacks and some others. It didn’t always pay off. Low risk against a team like SA often meant boring and low scoring rugby.

If you’re looking to match SA the biggest and most physical will be picked. If I could think of some players that are physical but also offer a lot more then you’re looking at Furlong, Beirne, Stander, Faletau  and Watson as test starters.

When you say that Gatland knows how to play SA what does that mean? I suppose they had a decent record v SA under Gatland, albeit not at the world cup.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 06 Apr 2021, 1:54 pm

You better ask Old Man, I just tried to guess what he meant.

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Post by BigGee Tue 06 Apr 2021, 1:55 pm

No-one seems to be paying a great deal of attention to Risca's earlier warnings. Please let's cut out the anti-whoever posts and get back to talking about the players who may or may not go on the Lions tour

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Post by Old Man Tue 06 Apr 2021, 2:03 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Old Man wrote:I have said this before, and I will say it again.

Gatland in 50/50 selection issues will go for players he knows well, it is natural, every coach does that.

So expect any 50/50 decision to go the way of a Welsh player.

Secondly, Gatland knows how to play SA, it isn’t the English way, it is the Welsh way. So he will look for players that fit that style.

Yes he will. It will include Sarries and Ireland players, probably not as many Welsh players as people believe.

The way Gatland beat SA was just to shut them down and play low risk rugby, often relying on individual brilliance from our halfbacks and some others. It didn’t always pay off. Low risk against a team like SA often meant boring and low scoring rugby.

If you’re looking to match SA the biggest and most physical will be picked. If I could think of some players that are physical but also offer a lot more then you’re looking at Furlong, Beirne, Stander, Faletau  and Watson as test starters.

When you say that Gatland knows how to play SA what does that mean? I suppose they had a decent record v SA under Gatland, albeit not at the world cup.

The Springbok management during the “Chasing the Sun” series admitted their biggest challenge was Wales, they were unsure what the best tactics would be against their low risk style. England on the other hand they knew how they would beat them.

So Gatland’s tactics have stifled the Boks since the last RWC, hence unless you have the talent and skills of New Zealand, the best way vs the Boks is the manner in which Gatland played vs the Springboks

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 06 Apr 2021, 2:06 pm

It was a better recent record against SA, but Wales lost both of the KO games against the Boks at world cups. We also struggled to beat the vintage Bok team which contained Smit, Bakkies, Matfield, Burger, Habana, du Preez, Steyn, de Villiers, etc.

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Post by Old Man Tue 06 Apr 2021, 2:10 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:It was a better recent record against SA, but Wales lost both of the KO games against the Boks at world cups. We also struggled to beat the vintage Bok team which contained Smit, Bakkies, Matfield, Burger, Habana, du Preez, Steyn, de Villiers, etc.

Boks during a RWC is a bit different to normal Springbok teams, getting the best Bok squad together only really happens during RWC, and injury and retired players permitting the British and Irish Lions tours.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 06 Apr 2021, 2:19 pm

What was the tactic against England? Play at a higher altitude?

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Post by flyhalffactory Tue 06 Apr 2021, 2:42 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Liam Williams will not be a starter, on the wing or at full back.

We all know it will be Hogg at full back, and I would start Josh Adams and Johnny May on the wings.

Good Call LD
Adams - World Cup 2019 highest try scorer
May - on his day the world best attacking winger

Only issue for me is both are left wings so I'll doubt he'll pick both, so I think Gatland might launch a curve ball and go

15 Hogg
14 LRZ or Sanjay
11 Adams
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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 06 Apr 2021, 2:54 pm

May has covered the right wing for England quite a lot too, including against South Africa in SA. Seem to remember some great tries from there too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SffGBQbknEc

2 nice assists and a try. Reminder why Daly shouldn't be anywhere near full back too.

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Post by Old Man Tue 06 Apr 2021, 4:27 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What was the tactic against England? Play at a higher altitude?

Yep, and other stuff too.

Squidge has a nice video on youtube about it.


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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 06 Apr 2021, 4:42 pm

Quick check 3 a piece for England under Jones. Under gataland Wales had a 10 4 losing to win set. Squide takes an age was it just the summary of 1 match or all 6?

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Post by Old Man Tue 06 Apr 2021, 5:02 pm

Just the final

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 06 Apr 2021, 5:33 pm

Ah I misunderstood your point. Over 2 games both of which SA won Gatlands was the plan to follow.

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Post by Old Man Tue 06 Apr 2021, 5:47 pm

Yep

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Post by doctor_grey Tue 06 Apr 2021, 6:04 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:It was a better recent record against SA, but Wales lost both of the KO games against the Boks at world cups. We also struggled to beat the vintage Bok team which contained Smit, Bakkies, Matfield, Burger, Habana, du Preez, Steyn, de Villiers, etc.
I think everyone had trouble with those Springbok teams you mentioned.  If I remember, most of those players came from the Bulls and Sharks, each of which could have been a match for almost any nation in the world.  Those were great teams and fun to watch (if you don't mind Bakkies elbow coming right at your chops).

p.s. I won't call that Bok team vintage because it will make me feel old.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 07 Apr 2021, 9:24 am

Exeter v Leinster will be a cracker of a game with plenty of potential Lions on show.
Should last weeks games have a bearing on selection? As some players who performed in the 6Ns went missing.

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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 07 Apr 2021, 9:32 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Exeter v Leinster will be a cracker of a game with plenty of potential Lions on show.
Should last weeks games have a bearing on selection? As some players who performed in the 6Ns went missing.

You would have to expect that international form would be more important.

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Post by The Oracle Wed 07 Apr 2021, 9:45 am

The obvious answer is that a mixture of both international and club form would be the best thing to look at.
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Post by The Oracle Wed 07 Apr 2021, 9:49 am

Not making excuses for the poor showing by the Welsh regions, and Ireland as always are the exception, but I do wonder what effect having only 4 teams (and 2 for Scotland) makes when going from the 6N to club rugby.  With only 4 or 2 teams a greater proportion of the clubs' squad has been away with the national team than for teams in leagues with 12 or 14 clubs.  Scarlets having half their first team play a grueling international tournament.... it must take its toll a little.  But for the English and French, would it be fair to say that on average only a handful of their first teams are taken away for international duty?  As I said, it doesn't seem to affect Ireland though so perhaps my theory is mince but then they do seem to have great squad depth there too.


Last edited by The Oracle on Wed 07 Apr 2021, 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 07 Apr 2021, 9:57 am

Spare a thought for Argentina who only have one professional club.

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Post by BigGee Wed 07 Apr 2021, 9:58 am

The Oracle wrote:Not making excuses for the poor showing by the Welsh regions, and Ireland as always are the exception, but I do wonder what effect having only 4 teams (and 2 for Scotland) makes when going from the 6N to club rugby.  With only 4 or 2 teams a greater proportion of the clubs' squad has been away with the national team than for teams in leagues with 12 or 14 clubs.  Scarlets having half their first team play a grueling international tournament.... it must take it's toll a little.  But for the English and French, would it be fair to say that on average only a handful of their first teams are taken away for international duty?  As I said, it doesn't seem to affect Ireland though so perhaps my theory is mince but then they do seem to have great squad depth there too.

Unfortunately for the celtic nations, I think this is a massive factor. The Scots did not even get a week off before their games.

That would not have been the case in normal times, but these, as we know, are not normal times.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 07 Apr 2021, 10:06 am

Tuilagi back next month. I expect he will go unless he breaks.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 07 Apr 2021, 11:46 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Tuilagi back next month. I expect he will go unless he breaks.

Well if Cockasaniga can finally get back to form and Odogwu can continue his impressive form...Manu might actually have some competition as the battering ram?

(I appreciate how good Manu is by the way...just looking at alternatives now)

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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 07 Apr 2021, 12:08 pm

Too injury prone, 43 caps in 10 years is not a lot for a player of his quality especially when centre has been an area of weakness for England during his career. It would be a waste of a seat on the plane. Hope the Lions have learned from past mistakes.

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Post by The Oracle Wed 07 Apr 2021, 12:35 pm

Anyone know how it's likely to work in terms of COVID bubbles and calling up replacements? Previously you could take a gamble on an injury prone player, or one coming back from injury, knowing there were players close by and/or on a call-up list. But what with COVID? Just take a bigger squad to cover for these things? I know injuries can happen to anyone at any time, but could it mean that some of the players known to be a bit more injury prone (e.g. Tuilagi) are over-looked this time? You don't want to have to wait 2 weeks for a replacement to be able to take part.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 07 Apr 2021, 1:24 pm

There's been nothing. The only thing I've read is the rumour that there will be a smaller squad rather than a larger one which would seem more logical to me.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 07 Apr 2021, 1:25 pm

Gatland names his slimmed down 36 man squad on 6th May so this gives Manu T an outside chance to prove fitness in time.
A fully firing MT would surely make the 23 at least.
Apparently Gats is naming an official stand by list which maybe a more realistic hope for his inclusion.
This is for replacements for injuries which is almost a given.

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Post by The Oracle Wed 07 Apr 2021, 1:29 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:There's been nothing. The only thing I've read is the rumour that there will be a smaller squad rather than a larger one which would seem more logical to me.

For me, a larger squad would be more logical as it can manage injuries 'internally' if that makes sense, rather than increasing the likelihood of needed to call up from outside the group if you take a smaller squad. What's your thinking 7.5?
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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 07 Apr 2021, 1:31 pm

The Oracle wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:There's been nothing. The only thing I've read is the rumour that there will be a smaller squad rather than a larger one which would seem more logical to me.

For me, a larger squad would be more logical as it can manage injuries 'internally' if that makes sense, rather than increasing the likelihood of needed to call up from outside the group if you take a smaller squad.  What's your thinking 7.5?

Sorry badly worded. I agree a larger one is more logical.

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Post by The Oracle Wed 07 Apr 2021, 1:32 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:There's been nothing. The only thing I've read is the rumour that there will be a smaller squad rather than a larger one which would seem more logical to me.

For me, a larger squad would be more logical as it can manage injuries 'internally' if that makes sense, rather than increasing the likelihood of needed to call up from outside the group if you take a smaller squad.  What's your thinking 7.5?

Sorry badly worded. I agree a larger one is more logical.

Ah, OK! thumbsup
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Post by Sgt_Pooly Wed 07 Apr 2021, 3:32 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Tuilagi back next month. I expect he will go unless he breaks.

If he's approaching full fitness, he travels. Manu brings things no other option does, certainly not to his level anyway. He scares the life out of defences, he'd be a huge asset.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 07 Apr 2021, 5:11 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Exeter v Leinster will be a cracker of a game with plenty of potential Lions on show.
Should last weeks games have a bearing on selection? As some players who performed in the 6Ns went missing.

You would have to expect that international form would be more important.

Yes unless you are Sam Simmonds of course. Name checked by Bod as the bolter Gats maybe looking for. His fast running style may suit the hard terrain in SA.
Also with all the games being reportedly played at altitude natural fit athletes may be favoured.

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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 07 Apr 2021, 5:23 pm

BOD works for BT and just name checks whoever pleases the audience but to be fair he is a good player I just think its too big a risk picking someone without any international experience.

Imagine getting capped for the Lions before your country, that would be strange.

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Post by BamBam Wed 07 Apr 2021, 5:31 pm

Simmonds has been capped he’s just not had much of a look in since those first few games

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Post by doctor_grey Wed 07 Apr 2021, 5:43 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Tuilagi back next month. I expect he will go unless he breaks.

If he's approaching full fitness, he travels. Manu brings things no other option does, certainly not to his level anyway. He scares the life out of defences, he'd be a huge asset.
How do we know how fully fit he really is? Of course, he would likely say he ready to go (who wouldn't?). but how likely do you think it is that he will travel? Not a lot of games between now and selection.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 07 Apr 2021, 8:19 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Tuilagi back next month. I expect he will go unless he breaks.

If he's approaching full fitness, he travels. Manu brings things no other option does, certainly not to his level anyway. He scares the life out of defences, he'd be a huge asset.
How do we know how fully fit he really is?  Of course, he would likely say he ready to go (who wouldn't?). but how likely do you think it is that he will travel?  Not a lot of games between now and selection.

Once you get Manu on the pitch he doesn't need much game time to get up to speed. A game or two will be fine. It's getting him well enough to be on the pitch that's the issue.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 08 Apr 2021, 5:18 am

BamBam wrote:Simmonds has been capped he’s just not had much of a look in since those first few games

Simmonds has 7 caps and 1 good game from recollection? He really struggled against the more physical sides.....I can only imagine what SA would do to him. It would be like Brussow on the '09 tour all over again, throwing Martyn Williams around like a rag doll!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiVTDSEc8V8

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