England's Summer of Cricket 2021

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2nd June-14th June: Two tests v New Zealand

23rd June-26th June: Three T20s v Sri Lanka
29th June-4th July: Three ODIs v Sri Lanka

8th July-13th July: Three ODIs v Pakistan
16th July-20th July: Three T20s V Pakistan

4th August-14th September: Five Tests v India

Soft signals are b*llocks and need doing away with.

That was a travesty of a call. 'Ball clearly on the ground'. Soft signals basically decide what the third umpire is going to do. I thought it was not-out in real time, but the slow-motion replay clearly showed a fair catch.

Could be a huge moment as it was Conway, who has looked in (mostly!) good touch.

Not the best start for Anderson or Wood with the ball. Broad grew into his spell, generating plenty of pace and venom.

43/1 at lunch. Good platform for the Kiwis. Conway looking fluent, Young not in bad touch either. If they get through the first 30 minutes of the afternoon then England will be on the back foot.

So 43-1 at lunch. Even session I'd say. England managed to go pass 300, but NZ limited the damage soon after Wood went. Then they lost Latham early, but Conway and Young have ensured no further losses and they have 43 on the board, at above 3 an over. Conway got away with that low catch but looked in good touch otherwise. Young has looked unhurried in the middle.
All 4 bowlers getting a look in before lunch. England not as appalling as they usually are with overrates. Had they got Conway, could have been a different session...

That was a diabolical decision, not sure how the ball can simultaneously touch the ground and have Crawley's fingers underneath it.

Anderson has been pretty crap by his standards so far - all over the place with his line

Oh dear...bad miss by Root , who is not having a good match...

Stone can count himself very unfortunate.

52/1

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Anderson has been pretty crap by his standards so far - all over the place with his line

Nerves mate. You get that on your 162nd cap...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Soft signals are b*llocks and need doing away with.

I don't mind soft signals .

Before they introduced them , low catches were almost always given not out as they usually look suspicious on TV. Think overall , the soft signal has improved things.

In this particular case , I just think the umpires got it wrong. Happens.

That was a very simple chance for Root. You get the feeling it won't be England's day, especially after the incident before lunch.

Stone bowling well since the resumption, though.

Very well organised batsman , this Conway. Might have been a bit lucky earlier today ; but he's following up on his Lord's effort pretty well here.
NZ starting to look a bit settled at 69/1 though you wouldn't say batting has been altogether easy. And as we saw yesterday , one can bring two or three... Also sky looking a bit gloomier which might encourage the bowlers.

Stone building up some serious speed...

Beautiful on drive from Young.

Dark clouds over the ground is about the only thing going in England's favour at the moment. Kiwis all set to make a big score here.

On the whole, I think England have bowled a little too short, they haven't made the ball swing as much as the New Zealanders, and the fielding hasn't been sharp enough.

It's around that time when the Dukes can start swinging as it did for NZ in the first innings. England just really need that breakthrough to get their session moving.

Conway is batting ominously though.

Wood apparently carrying a knock. I did think it a surprise that England played him in back-to-back tests.

Young starting to accelerate. I like watching Conway bat, he's a left-handed Damien Martyn.

Bit of a concern re Wood carrying a niggle which has them reluctant to use him - in a four man attack. Anderson being asked to do an extended spell here , and NZ are not in any real hurry : reckon they fancy some juicy part time bowling later today.

Here's Root already.

50 for Conway. Bit of a contrast between his start and Bracey's start to test cricket!

With Root on, it's milking time for the tourists.

Good fifty for Conway. Got to love that cover drive of his.

Good to see Wood back on anyway...can't have been too much wrong with him. Looks lively enough this over.

Why hasn't Eng bowled as well as I expected them to seeing performance of Kiwi seamers

Cowed by weight of my expectations and my money on them

commentators are going on a front line spinner
Well Root is better than Bess....and Leach is better than Root

Problem is Stokes missing...when he is in, thy can simply play Leach for a seamer

Root ain't bowling badly though...and will pick a few wickets I believe

KP_fan wrote:commentators are going on a front line spinner
Well Root is better than Bess

I doubt Root even thinks that. Bess has a better average, better economy, better strike-rate and two five-wicket hauls to Root's one.

Conway is very impressive ....shades of left handed Dravid in playing close to the body and defense.......he looks set for another hundred....
and yet I would say Eng is still ahead...when wickets fall...they do very quickly

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:commentators are going on a front line spinner
Well Root is better than Bess

I doubt Root even thinks that. Bess has a better average, better economy, better strike-rate and two five-wicket hauls to Root's one.

you are talking stats...I am talking skill

Root is generally underrated as a bowler - not least by himself. (Although it is always hard for a skipper to get the right balance in how much to bowl himself , especially for one for whom bowling is very much their second suit.)
He's bowling quite nicely . Can't see him wrecking the Kiwi innings though.
NZ looking good at 95/1 and England need some magic from somewhere or they could find themselves in for a very long and arduous time in the field over the next day or two.

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:commentators are going on a front line spinner
Well Root is better than Bess

I doubt Root even thinks that. Bess has a better average, better economy, better strike-rate and two five-wicket hauls to Root's one.

you are talking stats...I am talking skill

Stats show the result of skill. If Root were a more skilful bowler the statistics would show it.

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:commentators are going on a front line spinner
Well Root is better than Bess

I doubt Root even thinks that. Bess has a better average, better economy, better strike-rate and two five-wicket hauls to Root's one.

you are talking stats...I am talking skill

Stats show the result of skill. If Root were a more skilful bowler the statistics would show it.

If he was to take bowling as a primary trait, and train and practice, and bowl a lot at FC level his stats would get tremendously better.
Because he is more skillful

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:commentators are going on a front line spinner
Well Root is better than Bess

I doubt Root even thinks that. Bess has a better average, better economy, better strike-rate and two five-wicket hauls to Root's one.

you are talking stats...I am talking skill

I know you are no fan of Bess , KP_fan...but I think it's a bit rough to be practically writing him off at this early stage of his career. He's been inconsistent , and obviously has a bit to learn ; but he's pretty young ; and as Duty has shown , has managed some decent performances already , despite his flaws.
I won't be at all surprised if he comes back into the team sooner or later , and ends up a handy sort of spinner - at least by English standards

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:commentators are going on a front line spinner
Well Root is better than Bess

I doubt Root even thinks that. Bess has a better average, better economy, better strike-rate and two five-wicket hauls to Root's one.

you are talking stats...I am talking skill

Stats show the result of skill. If Root were a more skilful bowler the statistics would show it.

If he was to take bowling as a primary  trait, and train and practice, and bowl a lot at FC level his stats would get tremendously better.
Because he is more skillful

It's the reason that he isn't more skilful that he doesn't take it as a primary trait; the same as why he doesn't bowl as much at FC level. He's a useful part-time option, can pick up the odd good wicket, but he isn't a frontline spinner or an all-rounder, neither is he capable of rolling through teams (bar on super-helpful wickets).

As I type, Root's served up some rubbish to Conway which has been dispatched.

A wrong umpiring call, then an absolute sitter put down by the skipper. That has allowed New Zealand to navigate a tricky period easier than they would have expected. England have by and large, managed to control the runs particularly after lunch, though that last over from Root didn't quite help matters. Anderson didn't bowl particularly well, and Wood it seems, is not quite a hundred percent. Stone was impressive and unlucky, Broad was pretty good early on. England need a bit of magic from somewhere now.

Talking about England and spinners, they don't seem to know to manage spinners, From Panesar to Moeen to Bess and Leach, there is also a story of mismanagement in there.
They dropped Moeen at a time when he was still among their top wicket takers for his poor batting, and admittedly poor bowling performances across a couple of series. The way Bess was handled in India, Moeen too, left a lot to be desired. The message to Leach that you are not good enough to make it to the side even on a flat pitch that doesn't have extraordinary assistance to seamers is poor too. They utterly confused Rashid, so much so that he gave up test cricket for good.

Broad back and immediately looked more dangerous than any of the other bowlers. Could do damage here if he can prise one of these out.

Root has been generally OK ; but there isn't much there for a spinner at this stage - even a full time one - and these two Kiwis look capable of playing him all day with a stick of rhubarb...

NZ building a strong position.

msp83 wrote:Talking about England and spinners, they don't seem to know to manage spinners, From Panesar to Moeen to Bess and Leach, there is also a story of mismanagement in there.
They dropped Moeen at a time when he was still among their top wicket takers for his poor batting, and admittedly poor bowling performances across a couple of series. The way Bess was handled in India, Moeen too, left a lot to be desired. The message to Leach that you are not good enough to make it to the side even on a flat pitch that doesn't have extraordinary assistance to seamers is poor too. They utterly confused Rashid, so much so that he gave up test cricket for good.

No it didn't, he has a chronic should injury that means he cannot bowl in tests.

Root is beginning to leak runs now. 7 at a go is a couple of overs far too many for a parttimer.

They milked and hit Root out of the attack, Wood's back on.

You know England are desperate when they start banging it in short like that.

At least Broad's managed to get the ball changed.

Wood resorting to the old short ball attack a la Wagner. I know he unsettled Conway at first at Lord's ; but since then he hasn't looked at all bothered by the bouncy stuff - in fact he's collected a few runs with well controlled pulls , which he has managed to keep down very effectively.
I've a hunch Wood might wear out sooner than he will...

126/1. At least Broad has won a change of ball.

msp83 wrote: A wrong umpiring call, then an absolute sitter put down by the skipper. .

I think the idea of solving a 3-dimensional vision problem on a 2-dimensional TV screen is the problem

Root's back would never stand up to being a full time spinner even if he was skillful enough. When he was younger that bowling arm was much higher. As his back got worse the arm came down lower. The round arm action can get him wickets at time with the ball skidding on from an unusual trajectory but it reduces the bounce he can get massively.

Root's a very useful part time spinner but not more than that.

Zaltzman on TMS wrote:Going back to 2017, New Zealand are now the first team to reach 40 overs in the first innings of a Test in England with only one wicket down.

Good stat from Zaltz there.

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:commentators are going on a front line spinner
Well Root is better than Bess

I doubt Root even thinks that. Bess has a better average, better economy, better strike-rate and two five-wicket hauls to Root's one.

you are talking stats...I am talking skill

Stats show the result of skill. If Root were a more skilful bowler the statistics would show it.

If he was to take bowling as a primary  trait, and train and practice, and bowl a lot at FC level his stats would get tremendously better.
Because he is more skillful

It's the reason that he isn't more skilful that he doesn't take it as a primary trait; the same as why he doesn't bowl as much at FC level. He's a useful part-time option, can pick up the odd good wicket, but he isn't a frontline spinner or an all-rounder, neither is he capable of rolling through teams (bar on super-helpful wickets).

As I type, Root's served up some rubbish to Conway which has been dispatched.

I think he doesn't take bowling as a primary trait...because how far he will go as a bowler is less than how far he will go as a batsman

He will go much further than Bess for eg based on skill he has as a bowler, but not go on to become the top-4 bowler of his time.....as he is when he sticks to batting as a primary trait...and an all time Eng great batsman.

Tendulkar was another example.....of so much skill with the ball..that he could have finished as a good spin bowler, much better than many who were tried by India....but not the best bowler of his times, leave aside the best across an era that he became as a batsamn

34 overs left in the day, so could be a feature length 150 minute session, with England toiling away with the old ball against these two.

NZ well ahead in terms of the match situation, if not the scoreboard (yet!). The third umpire and Root's drop proving very costly.

king_carlos wrote:Root's back would never stand up to being a full time spinner even if he was skillful enough. When he was younger that bowling arm was much higher. As his back got worse the arm came down lower. The round arm action can get him wickets at time with the ball skidding on from an unusual trajectory but it reduces the bounce he can get massively.

Root's a very useful part time spinner but not more than that.

I'll quote this for the benefit of KP_Fan.

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:commentators are going on a front line spinner
Well Root is better than Bess

I doubt Root even thinks that. Bess has a better average, better economy, better strike-rate and two five-wicket hauls to Root's one.

you are talking stats...I am talking skill

Stats show the result of skill. If Root were a more skilful bowler the statistics would show it.

If he was to take bowling as a primary  trait, and train and practice, and bowl a lot at FC level his stats would get tremendously better.
Because he is more skillful

It's the reason that he isn't more skilful that he doesn't take it as a primary trait; the same as why he doesn't bowl as much at FC level. He's a useful part-time option, can pick up the odd good wicket, but he isn't a frontline spinner or an all-rounder, neither is he capable of rolling through teams (bar on super-helpful wickets).

As I type, Root's served up some rubbish to Conway which has been dispatched.

I think he doesn't take bowling as a primary trait...because how far he will go as a bowler is less than how far he will go as a batsman

He will go much further than Bess for eg based on skill he has as a bowler, but not go on to become the top-4 bowler of his time.....as he is when he sticks to batting as a primary trait...and an all time Eng great batsman.

Tendulkar  was another example.....of so much skill with the ball..that he could have finished as a good spin bowler, much better than many who were tried by India....but not the best bowler of his times, leave aside the best across an era that he became as a batsamn

Agree about Sachin, he could very well have evolved into a very decent spin bowler. In fact, he would probably be the most skilled parttime bowler of his era at the very least. We did have a few during that period, India itself had Ganguly, Sehwag, Yuvraj, The Waugh brothers and Bevan from Australia, Aravinda de Silva of Sri Lanka, Amir Sohail, Graeme Hick, and many others. Those days, there were far more batters who could bowl, and even do a decent job on a good day.

Is Joe Root the most skilled parttime bowler of his era? Steve Smith has nearly quit bowling. So Root might well be...

Pendulum swinging NZ's way

Simon Katich would be right up there with the most skilled part timers I saw.

I think there were more part time spinners in those eras as they were more effective in one day cricket. When one day batting was in its infancy straight break finger spinners could frequently fly through a decent number of economical overs in the middle of a one day game which gave their skipper a lot more flexibility with his bowlers. White ball batting has evolved so far that part timers just get whacked a lot more often now.

Steve Waugh broke through as a genuine all rounder it's worth noting. His bowling kept him in the Australia side whilst it took him 20 something Tests to make his first century. He was an aggressive batsman and bowler in his younger years. Then he put away the hook, became more obdurate with the bat and largely stopped bowling. It's remarkable how some players change throughout their careers.

Jayasuria was originally a spinner of course.

George Dockrell of Ireland is now converting himself into a batting all rounder who occasionally turns his arm over.

A great session for NZ . At 130/1 they'll be fancying well over 200 by the close and a chance to really put a tired England attack to the sword tomorrow. Home team up against it.

Couple of wickets can change the situation, of course. Just a bit hard to see where they're coming from at the moment ; but maybe the tea break will revive the attack...We can hope.

msp83 wrote:Is Joe Root the most skilled parttime bowler of his era? Steve Smith has nearly quit bowling. So Root might well be...

One more point on Root....he is not the greatest captain, but a pretty smart one
And together with the selectors they have decided that he will go as the 5th bowler and only spinner
He has been bowling 15 to 20 over regularly in last many games.

In this decision and also how Bess was not played in India and Root out-bowled him even when played  .....lies therein a couple of clear message
They believe Root is fit enuf to bowl 15 to 20 overs per test
and that he ain't doing any worse then Bess

Although not Bess but Leach would have been more useful seeing how Patel got something...but you can't have everything, when you don't have the allrounders....and you somehow try ot manufacture a 5th bowler out of 4....as we saw thru most of Dhoni era in tests

England need to make inroads soon, else it could be a long hard session. The ball is 45 overs old, though Anderson seems to be striving for it, there is no real sign of reverse. There is no frontline spinner in the attack. Broad is bowling very well, but unless wickets come soon, they could be in serious trouble.

Wow, can't believe Conway got out to that. He can't believe it either.

Vital for England. Bit of a lifeline.

Broad and Anderson having first go after tea...had thought we might see Stone. Not going to be a lot there for any of them with the ball 45 overs old. Might be going to try and dry the runs up for a bit...but the way these two NZ bats are playing is underlining how much England wasted first innings...

But Lo ! Conway flicks Broad away and Crawley takes a fine (low) catch in the outfield. Fortunately not too low so we don't need a soft signal

The break they needed . Now : can they enlarge it ?

Ha...actually see on replay it wasn't low at all : was fooled by him rolling over But I got my joke in...