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Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

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Post by VTR Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:09 pm

Don't know anything about that number 9 and 10, are they decent hitters that just happen to be low in the order, or were England again awarding outlier performances to the opposition?

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Post by Gooseberry Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:29 pm

Sheppard (7) is a legit batting threat in T20I's, averages exactly 100 now, and Hossain (10) who really went berserk 56. Those two scored more than half the west indies total. The number 9 only scored 12 at run a ball so no outlier there.

So not absolute outliers, but does smack of England taking the foot off the throat a bit too whilst they rode their luck knowing it was hit or bust time.

Both teams seem to have suffered from randomly deciding to use a 6th bowler towards the end just because they'd picked one.

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Post by VTR Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:11 pm

Thanks, I'd got it wrong as I thought it was the 9 and 10, not the 7 and 10 with that partnership. The death bowling must have been appalling for that to even be close, and we can add to Duty's bingo card the Chris Jordan death over being carted for over 20

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Post by Gooseberry Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:53 pm

king_carlos wrote:
I really feel that Salt should be playing here. The England white ball set-up is a sneakily old side, especially in the batting. Morgan, Buttler, Roy, Bairstow, Stokes, Root and Malan are all in their 30s. Then two of the backups in Vince and Billings are as well. I'm predominantly an "if they're good enough they're young/old enough" when age is brought up either with players being too young or old. A bit of me does wonder if the England white ball side could fall off a cliff if most of these guys retire in quick succession in a few years.


Thanks for rehashing my earlier post Hug

Even the fringe bowlers used are spring chickens, Topley has somehow gone from promising youngster to 27 and Mills shockingly turns 30 this summer, and Payne is 30.

Even form a fairly short term perspective I dont think anyone could convince themselves that Dawson and Vince are players who could actually improve Englands side come the next world cup. Im struggling to believe theres that much of a dearth of talent to justify this fairly limp squad.

Morgan was waffling on about building a "deeper stronger squad" the other day but it almost feels like he's worried about his own batting slot. He talked about "new recruits" but none of the uncapped players have made it onto the field yet Its maybe harsh but you could make a case for Morgan not retiring after the last world cup as holding England back.

The one player young player they have invested a bit in over recent years is Banton, but hes yet to really establish himself on the international scene. I'd rather see him persisted with and the likes of Vince and Dawson benched to get some combination of Livingstone, Garton and Salt a game.

The likes of Brook and Payne you wonder why the even bothered bringing if they weren't even going to player the slightly less fringe guys. There could be worse places to end up carrying drinks, but the ECB might've invested that money in a test spin coach or a decent haircut for players.

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Post by JDizzle Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:37 am

JDizzle wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
JDizzle wrote:The Women’s Ashes start tomorrow. In good news, the women’s team are in better shape than England men. In bad news, Australia women are a better team than their men! Hard to see England winning the Ashes back.

So pretty much this!

England made a respectable 169 from their 20 overs. Yet Australia got it outrageously easily. England’s batting just doesn’t have the firepower, Sciver aside, Australia’s does.

Insane knock by McGrath - and they dropped Ellysse Perry! Not bad depth is it...

I would probably have named at least 8/9 Aussies who would be more likely do destroy England than McGrath! It’s not even a slight on England really to say Aus A would probably give them a game. Australia’s depth is just too good.

Lauren Bell added to the main squad for the Test match. A good move - think I said I wanted her to get a game over the summer as she is a wicket taker. Tall, quicker than the other seamers and swings it. Taking 20 wickets has always been an issue in the Tests, so she should play.

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Post by JDizzle Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:18 am

England go full hipster with their team selection! Three left arm seamers, a leggie, an offie and one spinner who does both! Funky.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:04 am

Not particularly impressive by England's bowlers so far - some brutal hitting by Pooran and Powell
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Post by Duty281 Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:11 am

Fun watch so far. West Indies on for 200+. Hope is hilariously out of place in this T20 team.

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Post by JDizzle Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:01 am

Please let Jofra’s elbow be working come the World Cups.

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Post by Duty281 Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:05 am

Utter destruction from Pooran and Powell. Only Topley and Rashid bowled well. Livingstone lost his head and Garton had a very poor start to his international career.

Just about chaseable, but certainly advantage to the hosts at halfway.

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Post by VTR Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:12 am

I'd rather a second string team being marmalised in this series. Try a few players out and see who might have potential. It's a pointless series so prefer this lineup to "learning" Chris Jordan will go for more than 20 in an over at some point

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Post by JDizzle Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:37 am

I just don’t see it with Garton unfortunately. On paper he is a T20 cricketer built in a lab - left armer, smashes it with the bat and gun fielder, but his bowling just isn’t up to it yet.

The experienced Windies bats (Pooran and Pollard especially) seemed to be picking Mills slower balls pretty easily. One for him to adapt to as people see more and more of him around the world.

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Post by Duty281 Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:52 am

James Vince has played a tidy James Vince innings.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:15 am

Banton playing nicely but nobody else coming off, England looking likely to come up short here.

Salt in at 6 now, not his ideal position...let alone Brook at 7!
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:17 am

In the women's game, England have won the toss and are bowling first - already an early wicket for Brunt removing Healy for a duck!

Interesting to see how Charlie Dean goes - got great potential
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Post by Duty281 Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:21 am

Banton goes and that's probably the game. Top effort from him, just had no support and was doing all the work on his own.

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Post by JDizzle Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:23 am

I’ve definitely not just spent the last 15 minutes slagging off the decision to bowl first! Australia 4/2!

Lanning down at 5… Outrageous depth.

Banton gone now. Excellent knock though - 73 (39). Really hope it is clicking for him as he has so much potential.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:27 am

Lanning, McGrath, Gardner at 5, 6 and 7 is absolutely obscene haha
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:42 am

Brook having a bit of a stinker here, albeit very much not "his role" to be coming in to slog at the end.

Salt going nicely with some good blows - wrote in my post t20 World Cup diatribe that I think he needs to be backed to be part of the white ball squads going forward. Helping my case here!
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Post by JDizzle Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:45 am

Brook looks like a bloke who has spent the winter averaging 6 in the BBL. Not the worst thing for England for him to get out!

Salt is hilariously leg side - he must be the most bottom hand dominant player out there. It is working though!

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Post by Duty281 Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:47 am

If only Salt had batted a bit higher up and with Banton - England may have won.

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Post by JDizzle Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:50 am

Duty281 wrote:If only Salt had batted a bit higher up and with Banton - England may have won.

Apparently Salt has major issues vs spin. And he has only faced four balls of it in this knock. So opener or finisher suits him as he can just go from ball one unlike many others.

England weren’t helped by Livi being clearly not fit to play. That illness sounds really nasty and maybe it is just confirmation bias, but he looked a lot leaner.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:52 am

Also Steve Harmison is a very not good commentator
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Post by JDizzle Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:53 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Also Steve Harmison is a very not good commentator

Kieron Powell captaining the Windies and him being confused why Rashid would try and get Salt on strike for the final over high points.

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Post by JDizzle Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:54 am

It’s on!

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Post by Gooseberry Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:14 am

Morgans out of the rest of the series with injury.

Good opportunity for the young bats to build on the good scores in the last game. And a good excuse for England to keep picking Vince because experience.


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:47 pm

Unbelievable knock by Heather Knight!
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:40 am

JDizzle are you in on the Will Smeed hive? If not, join me.

69* off 45 balls on PSL debut so far
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Post by JDizzle Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:35 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:JDizzle are you in on the Will Smeed hive? If not, join me.

69* off 45 balls on PSL debut so far

The Somerset production line is unrivalled. Banton and Smeed opening in the Blast with the Sonny Baker as the enforcer with the ball? Yes please.

You can tell Smeed is playing in current era when he has played 26 T20 games and no other format of professional cricket. And that number will go up now!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:45 am

Will Jacks with a 17 ball half century in the Bangladesh Premier League today - having a “decent” tournament so far

Jake Lintott opening the batting with Gayle for his franchise in that is interesting. Bowling nicely in the tournament too, definitely one to keep an eye on for England in the spin department
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:12 am

We are 4 games into this series and Steve Harmison is still, for no apparent reason, calling Kieron Pollard, “Kieran Powell”
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:26 am

Four consecutive sixes by Moeen. Yes to that.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:31 am

Phil Salt at 7 - England continue to baffle with some of their batting orders in this format…what exactly is the point of that and having Vince at 3, where we learn he is in fact still James Vince?
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:12 am

We must preserve Jofra’s elbow with whatever medical science we can. England’s seam bowling in the power play this tour has been absolutely atrocious
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Post by JDizzle Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:23 am

England seem convinced they need an anchor at number 3. I am not sure about that if a) they have 7 proper batters and Jordan/Rashid at 8/9 and b) if Roy is going to start as slowly as he did today, he is effectively playing that role (Buttler has that ability too).

Pollard’s gone at 6 an over. Mills full pace went 664 and slower balls all died and were almost unhittable. Think about it England.

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:24 am

Only following this on text : but have the impression England are going to need a lot from their spinners to have any chance of defending this ? Only Topley seems to be capable of flying the flag for the pace squad...

Needed that first wicket !

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:31 am

JDizzle wrote:England seem convinced they need an anchor at number 3. I am not sure about that if a) they have 7 proper batters and Jordan/Rashid at 8/9 and b) if Roy is going to start as slowly as he did today, he is effectively playing that role (Buttler has that ability too).

Pollard’s gone at 6 an over. Mills full pace went 664 and slower balls all died and were almost unhittable. Think about it England.

Yes they seem intent on having this Malan/Vince type at 3 - very disappointed to not see Livingstone given a run at 3, as think this could be his best spot in Australia.
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Post by AlciG Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:41 am

WI's really suck against spin. And somehow they can't bat in the overs from 7-13.

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:01 am

Fifteen an over seems quite likely achievable against England's death bowling...

Surely Mills won't bowl again.

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:39 am

Spinners plus Topley did the job nicely so two all now...

Moeen had a decent game.

Meanwhile no joy for the England bowlers this morning in the women's game. Australia on to 64/2 off 22 ; though Ecclestone is bowling much better than her disappointing first innings effort .

Possibly more weather later so a result looks unlikely ; but Australia will be interested in having a bowl at England if they can get a big enough lead. Perry and Mooney certainly playing with intent today. Pity the rain has taken so much time from this match.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:44 pm

Last hour of this has been a brilliant watch - Sciver and Dunkley absolutely superb, Aussies chipping away with wickets

England have got it down to 25 needed off the final five overs with Brunt new to the crease and Dunkley 45* off 31 balls
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:48 pm

Incredible catch by Beth Mooney to get rid of Dunkley!
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:03 pm

Always tough when you get close in these chases, England’s lower order has rather lost their cool here
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:08 pm

Some rightful questioning of whether England should have shut up shop here earlier - down to one wicket left with two overs to go, an Aussie win retains the ashes, a draw means England can still win them in the ODIs
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:16 pm

England do manage to block out the final couple to secure a draw and keep the ashes alive - both gutted they couldn’t win but happy they didn’t lose!

(Also more womens test cricket plz and thanks all)
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Post by alfie Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:01 pm

That really was a cracker of a Test Match ! Enthralling last session and arguably the "right" result as I don't think either team really deserved to lose it...

England probably should have won after Sciver and Dunkley got it down to 45 off ten. They seemed to get a bit frustrated by Sutherland's negative tactics and the reluctance of the umpires to call wides - and rather threw their wickets away when knocking it around for singles would likely have got the job done. But one shouldn't quibble : the Aussies brought off a couple of great outfield catches and managed to stifle the chase - which as Olly said England only gave up when nine down. In any case the home side would have been stiff to lose after declaring twice. Cross held her nerve well to make sure England didn't lose that last wicket so justice was basically done.

Brave from both teams and a credit to women's cricket thumbsup


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Post by VTR Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:03 pm

alfie wrote:Fifteen an over seems quite likely achievable against England's death bowling...

Surely Mills won't bowl again.

Have to give credit to Jordan and Topley for overs 17 and 18 which completely shut the game down. In each of the three overs prior to that, Windies had made the 15 needed. Mills seems like a domestic giant but ineffective at international level to me

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Post by alfie Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:09 pm

VTR wrote:
alfie wrote:Fifteen an over seems quite likely achievable against England's death bowling...

Surely Mills won't bowl again.

Have to give credit to Jordan and Topley for overs 17 and 18 which completely shut the game down. In each of the three overs prior to that, Windies had made the 15 needed. Mills seems like a domestic giant but ineffective at international level to me

Yes i am not convinced by Mills. He's quick ; and can be dangerous . But just not consistent enough at this level. Sure , bowling at the death is seriously tough and anyone can get battered - but he seems to be battered too often.

Think we would all prefer a fit Archer Smile

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:29 am

Incredible conclusion to the women's test. Hopefully it will spur the female game on even more.

Good win for England last night. Moeen reminding everyone of his credentials. Morgan will be feeling a similar squeeze to Hussain in 2004 - only in the team because of the captaincy, lots of talented batsmen ready to usurp his place.

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Post by Gooseberry Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:54 am

Great to see Livingstone stepping up with the ball. England really need slow bowling options to come through. Rashids near trhe end of his career, and Mo whos even older has always been a "good enough" all round option (yesterdays match winning batting being a real outlier for him).

So far this tour its largely been the established old guard, even with half of them missing, who have delivered. Whilst they can carry us through the upcoming world cup as noted a few days ago England are likely to see a lot of retirements over the next few years and need this new generation to start delivering on a par with the last.

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