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Is Eddie Jones’s position as England coach untenable?

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Post by Sharkey06 Fri 23 Jul 2021, 11:49 pm

Yet another of Eddie’s backroom staff has quit England – John Mitchell the defence coach is leaving to join Wasps backroom.  Since Eddie became England coach in 2015 we have seen a succession of coaches come and go:
- Steve Borthwick, Paul Gustard, John Mitchell, Simon Amor, Jason Ryles, Ed Robinson etc etc.

There seems to be a clear issue with the coaches feeling they are micro managed and not allowed to express themselves.

On the playing front, things are little better.  Eddie stuck religiously with Billy Vunipola in the face of much better performances at club level by Zach Mercer, Alex Dombrandt and Sam Simmonds.  Simmonds being selected for the Lions tour has to raise some serious questions around whether Eddie picks on performance or bloody mindedness as Billy has seriously underperformed for the last 3 or 4 years since suffering a number of arm injuries.

We have all watched Daly struggle at fullback, whereas Gatland picks him in his best position at outside centre and has been rewarded with good performances.

Marcus Smith has only got a look in for England whilst Farrell is away and Ford is resting.  Gatland has had the minerals to pick him ahead of more experienced players and put him straight into the side.

Barring the quarter final win against a poor Australian side and a great performance in the semi final versus New Zealand Eddie has largely relied upon hype and the risible contention that England’s aim is to be the best rugby team the world has ever seen.  If England stick with Eddie, I don’t anticipate much improvement on our 5th place finish in the 2021 6 Nations.  If people hang their hat on England’s lucky extra time win in the 2020 Autumn Cup against a third string France – god help us.

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Post by lostinwales Fri 23 Jul 2021, 11:56 pm

The revolving coach thing has not been a problem as such, and there has been value in keeping things fresh as well as giving more coaches experience at this level.

I don't know the answer but is there evidence that coaches who have been with England then left have done so because of Eddie? Worth pointing out that ex players seem to all be very positive about him even when it seems he's treated them hard.

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Post by Poorfour Sat 24 Jul 2021, 7:13 am

I always thought it was Eddie’s philosophy to change things up with his assistant coaches every so often - and also to persist with one style of play for most of an RWC cycle until it stops working, and then to change it up in the last couple of years.

It looks like madness from the outside, but it very nearly worked last time.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 24 Jul 2021, 7:24 am

Jones' record with England is impressive. And I'm not sure having a line up of coaches who are impressive and can walk into other jobs is that bad a position to be in.

As pointed out in another post Jones has tried to select Daly at 13 before an injury to Malins but I think it's going to backfire for the Lions defensively, let's come back to any post series.

A lot can happen before the 6 nations but we'll go into it expecting to win as we did last year.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:12 am

As 7½ points out Eddie has a good record.  I think a lot of the concern about Jones stems from his negative tactics which is a more recent phenomenon and his continuing loyalty to players not playing as well as they had.  Gives the impression competition for places in the team are not really as competitive as he claims they are and England are not playing in a way designed to win.  The case of Billy V. is the most obvious.  

He did bring in some younger talent, but it almost seems forced.  There are more young players banging on the door, but they need a fair opportunity to stake their claim.  This past year was the perfect year to give them a try, and everyone would understand, but that was missed.  Now he is in the zone where he can say there is not enough time before the RWC.  In other words, he has now created the perfect scenario where he can justify resisting change.  

As long as the team does not implode in the Autumn and the Six Nations, Jones will probably remain in his position through 2023.  
Unless he is caught kissing Matt Hancock.

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