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South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 31 July

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 South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 31 July Empty South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 31 July

Post by George Carlin Sun 25 Jul 2021, 9:23 am

 South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 31 July A_10                   South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 31 July Lions_10                
SOUTH AFRICA BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Saturday 31 July
KO: 18:00 SAST / 17:00 UK / 20:00 Dubai  Very Happy
Cape Town Stadium (Newlands), Cape Town
Sky Sports Main Event

Referee: Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
Assistant Referees: Nic Berry (Australia), Mathieu Raynal (France)
TMO: Marius Jonker ( Erm )

TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA:
15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 63 caps, 60 pts (12t)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse) – 15 caps, 40 pts (8t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 16 caps, 15 pts (3t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Munster) – 48 caps, 30 pts (6t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 15 caps, 70 pts (14t)
10 – Handré Pollard (vice-captain, Montpellier) – 50 caps, 477pts (6t, 78c, 93p, 4d)
09 – Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks) – 31 caps, 25 pts (5t)

08 – Jasper Wiese (Leicester Tigers) – 1 cap, 0 pts
07 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Stormers) – 57 caps, 25 pts (5t)
06 – Siya Kolisi (captain, Cell C Sharks) – 52 caps, 30 pts (6t)
05 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 41 caps, 5pts (1t)
04 – Eben Etzebeth (Toulon) – 87 caps, 15 pts (3t)
03 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 40 caps, 5pts (1t)
02 – Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers) – 38 caps, 40 pts (8t)
01 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 49 caps, 5pts (1t)

16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 35 caps, 30 pts (6t)
17 – Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls) – 44 caps, 5 pts (1t)
18 – Vincent Koch (Saracens) – 21 caps, 0 pts
19 – Lood de Jager (Sale Sharks) – 46 caps, 25 pts (5t)
20 – Marco van Staden (Vodacom Bulls) – 3 caps, 0 pts
21 – Kwagga Smith (Yamaha Júbilo) – 8 caps, 5 pts (1t)
22 – Herschel Jantjies (DHL Stormers) – 12 caps, 25 pts (5t)
23 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 8 caps, 5pts (1t)

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS:
15. Stuart Hogg (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland) #844
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
09. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790

01. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
02. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
03. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
04. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
05. Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761
06. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
07. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
08. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

16. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17. Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20. Taulupe Faletau (Bath Rugby, Wales) #779
21. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822

PREVIEW:


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 29 Jul 2021, 8:43 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Old Man Sun 25 Jul 2021, 9:29 am

I think Marius Jonker did well to not disadvantage the Lions in any way. Besides, he didn’t appoint himself and as Zwandile Stick mentioned, SARU didn’t appoint him either. So I think suggestions that he is a controversial appointment has played into the hands of Gatland.

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Post by RDW Sun 25 Jul 2021, 9:51 am

My team for test 2

1 Wyn Jones
2 Owens
3 Furlong
4 AWJ
5 Itoje
6 Lawes
7 Curry
8 Conan

9 Price
10 Biggar (Russell if not fit)
11 VDM
12 Henshaw
13 Harris
14 Watson
15 Hogg

Subs - Sutherland/Vunipola, LCD, Sinkler, Bierne, Watson, Murray, Farrell, Daly

I don't think Farrell is a starter if Biggar isn't fit. If Russell isn't ready yet I'd have him on the bench though. Smith is just far too raw. Hopefully if we win this game we can unleash Smith for test 3!

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Post by LordDowlais Sun 25 Jul 2021, 11:34 am

I would change two of the back three, loose head, and outside center for next week.

Out - Hogg, VDM, Sutherland, Daley.

In - Williams, Adams, Wyn Jones, Harris.

They are the changes I would make.

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Post by RDW Sun 25 Jul 2021, 11:46 am

What did Hogg and VDM do to justify the boot?

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Post by BamBam Sun 25 Jul 2021, 11:50 am

Not be Welsh

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Post by LordDowlais Sun 25 Jul 2021, 11:50 am

RDW wrote:What did Hogg and VDM do to justify the boot?

I though defensively they were poor, and were not really good under the high ball, Hogg was OK under the high ball, but not as good as we are used to, and neither offered anything in attack, at least Watson came looking.

We looked a lot more solid when Liam Williams came on.

Thats how I saw it.

Just my opinion. thumbsup

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:01 pm

BamBam wrote:Not be Welsh

Rich.

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Post by Old Man Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:02 pm

I don’t think VDM were poor defensively, The kicks Faf put onto his side were never accurate enough to expose his defense, Kolbe had nothing to expose VDM as he never got the ball in space and Faf never managed to get a kick in behind VDM to test his ability to turn around.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:03 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:Not be Welsh

Rich.

We are all a bit biased towards our own players. Some a little more than others.

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Post by LordDowlais Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:07 pm

deleted


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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:07 pm

lostinwales wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:Not be Welsh

Rich.

We are all a bit biased towards our own players. Some a little more than others.

Just very rich coming from some, when you think about the reaction in 2017, and the reaction to AWJ this time around. I probably wouldn’t change the back 3. I thought Hogg had a shaky start but most of the guys did and then we grew into the game. What I like about both the starting wingers is that they are good at beating defenders in little space.

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Post by RDW Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:08 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
RDW wrote:What did Hogg and VDM do to justify the boot?

I though defensively they were poor, and were not really good under the high ball, Hogg was OK under the high ball, but not as good as we are used to, and neither offered anything in attack, at least Watson came looking.

We looked a lot more solid when Liam Williams came on.

Thats how I saw it.

Just my opinion. thumbsup

So which specific instances are you referring to? When did Hogg or VDM show liability under the high ball? What defensive lapses were there?
.
Saying 'it's just my opinion" doesn't miraculously make you exempt from justifying it.

FWIW if Adams and Williams had started the first Test they would have been justifiable picks. As were Hogg and VDM - there was very little in it. If your preference is for the alternative then fine, but don't try and make up things that didn't happen to justify it..


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Post by LordDowlais Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:10 pm

lostinwales wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:Not be Welsh

Rich.

We are all a bit biased towards our own players. Some a little more than others.


I am not being biased, I just chose the only other players available, the only other full back is Welsh, and the only other winger is Welsh, so what am I supposed to do ?

Unless you thought both Hogg and VDM had good games, then we would have to disagree.


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Post by BamBam Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:10 pm

Laughable from the usual suspects.

Hogg and VDM did everything they could do in a game without having much of the ball, but still kept the much lauded SA back 3 in hand. Rather than back them, let's put in a Welsh player because he hit a couple of rucks Laugh

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Post by LordDowlais Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:13 pm

RDW wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RDW wrote:What did Hogg and VDM do to justify the boot?

I though defensively they were poor, and were not really good under the high ball, Hogg was OK under the high ball, but not as good as we are used to, and neither offered anything in attack, at least Watson came looking.

We looked a lot more solid when Liam Williams came on.

Thats how I saw it.

Just my opinion. thumbsup

So which specific instances are you referring to? When did Hogg or VDM show liability under the high ball? What defensive lapses were there?

Oh for gods sakes, there were numerous times where they dropped the high balls, and both were out of position in defence and the tackles missed, look it's just my opinion, I am not picking the Lions team, so don't worry about it.

Some people can be so sensitive when they want to be. Wink

To balance it out, I would not cry myself a river if they both kept their place next week either. OK

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:17 pm

Back 3 were all quiet as they had to live off scraps. Biggar kicked reasonably well but we were non existent ball in hand for the backs.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:19 pm

Will be interesting what happens next week. Daly being kicked out of the starting lineup won't help Williams at all, because Daly is so versatile as to where in the back line he can play.

Williams is a terrific player, but probably easier to look good coming on at the end of a match when the Boks were tired. I don't think the Lions would lose anything if he started though. I do get why Adams hasn't made it into the starting lineup so far, although he could not have done more. Watson and VDM are better at causing chaos.

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Post by RDW Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:33 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
RDW wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RDW wrote:What did Hogg and VDM do to justify the boot?

I though defensively they were poor, and were not really good under the high ball, Hogg was OK under the high ball, but not as good as we are used to, and neither offered anything in attack, at least Watson came looking.

We looked a lot more solid when Liam Williams came on.

Thats how I saw it.

Just my opinion. thumbsup

So which specific instances are you referring to? When did Hogg or VDM show liability under the high ball? What defensive lapses were there?

Oh for gods sakes, there were numerous times where they dropped the high balls, and both were out of position in defence and the tackles missed, look it's just my opinion, I am not picking the Lions team, so don't worry about it.

Some people can be so sensitive when they want to be. Wink

To balance it out, I would not cry myself a river if they both kept their place next week either. OK

Well since you can't give any specifics here's some - VDM overran one kick chase. Both players were also involved in several 50/50s where neither attacker nor defender got a clean catch. That's not dropped high balls, but maybe that's what you're meaning? Even the South Africans are saying they didn't witness any defensive or aerial weakness from our back 3, which is an area they thought they could exploit. If anything the Lions dominated there.

Williams' stats were 0 runs, 0 passes 0 tackles - that's some good solidity there! Wink . I might be wrong but I only remember his involvement being chasing a couple of 50/50s and not gathering (see earlier). It wasn't a game for a back 3 player to make any impact with 15 minutes left.

Once again - absolutely no problem with people having personal preference. With very little between any of the players that is natural. But people should just own that and not cover it up with gross exaggeration.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:41 pm

Harris in for Daly is a must because Daly looked like an accident waiting to happen. The highlight being when PTSD the biggest bloke on the park strolled past him when Daly flew up. Only the TMO saved us then.

Wyn Jones to start as was planned but Sutherland probably did enough to lose the bench spot. I was a bit disappointed by his lack impact. Mako off the bench as a carrying option makes sense.

Hooker, LCD looked a bit iffy with the darts. I'd be happy with any combination of the three hookers though as that's a position the Lions are blessed with outstanding quality.

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Post by RiscaGame Sun 25 Jul 2021, 1:01 pm

BamBam wrote:There there, no need to be such a sensitive little sausage and throw your toys out when asked to explain your bluster Dowlais


Please don’t post like this. Discuss the post, not the poster.

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Post by George Carlin Sun 25 Jul 2021, 1:06 pm

Okay. Can we all take a breath. Let me add to Risca's comment. There is no problem with expressing opinions. What forum rules require is that opinions are substantiated and made cognisant of the fact that if they are expressed in any offensive way, the objectively robust reader is entitled to take offense.

To put it another way, you can't give an opinion which you know is objectively antagonistic and then express amazement when people are offended. It's difficult as mods to draw a line of best fit between expression and protecting the environment and I'm sure we don't get it right all the time. However, if you start provoking people intentionally, it's not much of an excuse to say that it's all just your opinion. If that's what you really think, good luck going onto a Daily Telegraph chat room and telling people that in your opinion the Cambodian genocides weren't as bad as all that or that in your view Stalin was a bloody good bloke doing a difficult job.

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular - just know that someone was permanently banned this week for effectively trying to take advantage of the goodwill of a number of other people here. That's not on and I for one am way too old to listen to trolls to try and be cute with me about re-couching what it was that they did. As you were. 


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Post by jimbopip Sun 25 Jul 2021, 1:08 pm

GC, thanks for starting this post Hug

I think the best place to start on next week might be a brief, really brief, recap from yesterday.

First half; Lions started very sprightly, looked to go wide, both wingers looked alert and dangerous. Boks defence got their measure after about 10 minutes and started blitzing on Daly, the wingers pretty much became bystanders. Both teams kicked a lot, the Boks defence was effective at suffocating the creativity out of the game. The Lions gave away penalties at the breakdown, the Boks kicked four of them.
Second half, a mixture of the Lions stepping up both the pace and the intensity and the Boks falling off the pace just slightly meant that Biggar had a little more time to put the ball into areas of the field the Boks didn't want to play in and that The Lions started to win the breakdowns. The Boks began bleeding penalties. Sam Warburton predicted that the Lions replacements would increase the tempo and pace, they did and the Boks struggled to keep up with them.The mixture of lack of serious Test rugby and players recovering from Covid/isolation undoubtedly played a part.

Now, next week will the Boks be better for having a full 80 minutes of Test rugby under their belts? Will they stick to their gameplan which relies on being physically dominant at the breakdown and relentlessly pushing the opposition back?

Personally, I can't see the Boks changing too much. Their mindset always seems to me to be if Plan A isn't working then stick to Plan A but put twice as much effort into it. What is unknowable from here is how much the game took out of the players.
If Biggar stayed off with an HIA then he shouldn't play on Saturday. The tactic of using Daly to get round the blitz and release the back three didn't work so Gats may have to choose between the safe defensive Faz-Henshaw-Harris and the bold Russell/Smith-Henshaw-Daly.
I think the concern GC had about there being no real stand out world class players demanding inclusion is working in the Lions favour. Any changes made, which will probably be due to knocks/fatigue, will be on a like for like basis and won't really weaken the side. With the possible exception of Itoje. And maybe AWJ for his "aura". For instance a back row of Beirne-Faletau-Watson would probably prove to be very effective. Given that the Boks biggest weakness seems to be that they struggle to live with the Lions over 80 minutes maybe four or five fresh faces( and legs) would be no bad thing.

In short I can't see the Boks being radically different next week, or noticeably fitter. I can't see the Lions being weaker if Gats chooses to freshen the side. Rather incredibly, Gats could freshen the side with a view to keeping people match fit for the third test. i.e. Jones and Fagerson into the front row/bench to rest two from yesterday and make sure Jones and Fagerson have some meaningful game time in case they're needed for the third test. Ditto Davies at 9.

1. Mako
2. Sherriff
3. Sinckler
4. Beard
5. AWJ
6. Beirne
7.Watson
8. Faletau
9. Davies
10. Russell
11. Adams
12. Henshaw
13. Harris
14. LRZ
15.Wiilams

16. George
17. Jones
18. Fagerson
19. Simmonds
20. Hill
21. Murray
22. Faz
23. Hogg

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Post by LordDowlais Sun 25 Jul 2021, 1:17 pm

LRZ ?

Oooohh thats a ballsy call.

I do not think Anthony Watson did much to warrant being dropped. Although he was getting smashed, quite a lot. Also, no VDM in the squad ? I reckon he would do well against the tiring boks, bring him on with 15 mins left.

Ive just noticed you've left Itoje out as well. Also Ali Price was good yesterday. Wow, you are making some big calls. I like it. Laugh

Live and die by the sword, thats the hammer. thumbsup

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Post by jimbopip Sun 25 Jul 2021, 1:27 pm

LD, the point of that selection  is not that I think it's the side Gats should call but merely that he could call and it wouldn't necessarily be any weaker than yesterday's.
Do I think that 23 could win? They could. But bear in mind what Damon Runyon said, "Everything in this life is 6/4 against".

Gats' choice is go with your best side and hopefully win and the series is ours or save key players for the third test because the Boks won't get any fitter, there will be some attrition and they may be down to the bare bones by the deciding match.
If, say, Jones and Fagerson aren't involved on Saturday and we lose a prop or two then we're possibly going into the decider with a front row which is short of match practice. Similarly, Faz and Biggar may not come through the next game unscathed so would you have Russell, who needs gametime, or Smith in the 23 for a series decider?


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Post by doctor_grey Sun 25 Jul 2021, 1:28 pm

Is Russell healthy?

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Post by jimbopip Sun 25 Jul 2021, 1:32 pm

doctor_grey wrote:Is Russell healthy?

You're the doctor, Doc. Shocked

Apparently, he was scheduled to be fit for the second Test. I think we saw yesterday that if we want to play round the Boks blitz it needs to be a Russell or Smith type at 10.

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Post by LordDowlais Sun 25 Jul 2021, 1:33 pm

jimbopip wrote:LD, the point of that selection  is not that I think it's the side Gats should call but merely that he could call and it wouldn't necessarily be any weaker than yesterday's.
Do I think that 23 could win? They could. But bear in mind what Damon Runyon said, "Everything in this life is 6/4 against".

Gats' choice is go with your best side and hopefully win and the series is ours or save key players for the third test because the Boks won't get any fitter, there will be some attrition and they may be down to the bare bones by the deciding match.
If, say, Jones and Fagerson aren't involved on Saturday and we lose a prop or two then we're possibly going into the decider with a front row which is short of match practice. Similarly, Faz and Biggar may not come through the next game unscathed so would you have Russell, who needs gametime, or Smith in the 23 for a series decider?

Yeah I get that.

I would also imagine, the only way Biggar will not be playing is if the medics tell him hes not playing, he will do all he can to start on Saturday.

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Post by Poorfour Sun 25 Jul 2021, 1:42 pm

jimbopip wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Is Russell healthy?

You're the doctor, Doc. :shock:

Apparently, he was scheduled to be fit for the second Test. I think we saw yesterday that if we want to play round the Boks blitz it needs to be a Russell or Smith type at 10.

Ruck quoted one of the coaches saying that Russell was out of the boot and they were going to put him in light training on Monday. With Biggar’s return to play protocol as well, it’s very much up in the air as to which of the fly halves are going to be fit for Saturday.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 25 Jul 2021, 1:44 pm

Would love to see Smith make the bench.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 25 Jul 2021, 1:59 pm

jimbopip wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Is Russell healthy?

You're the doctor, Doc. Shocked

Apparently, he was scheduled to be fit for the second Test. I think we saw yesterday that if we want to play round the Boks blitz it needs to be a Russell or Smith type at 10.
OK then.  If I am in charge, hammer a couple of staples into Russell's tendon, shoot him up with novocaine and ketamine and send him out there and get the win!!!

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Post by Old Man Sun 25 Jul 2021, 2:07 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Is Russell healthy?

You're the doctor, Doc. Shocked

Apparently, he was scheduled to be fit for the second Test. I think we saw yesterday that if we want to play round the Boks blitz it needs to be a Russell or Smith type at 10.
OK then.  If I am in charge, hammer a couple of staples into Russell's tendon, shoot him up with novocaine and ketamine and send him out there and get the win!!!
Yup, its not like he has to go through a metal detector when running onto the field  Very Happy

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Post by profitius Sun 25 Jul 2021, 2:13 pm

I don't see a need for much change. They went well yesterday and looked solid and grew into the game as it progressed. The center is the only area I'd look at.
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Post by king_carlos Sun 25 Jul 2021, 4:13 pm

I'd actually be really tempted to start Bierne for the 2nd test despite Lawes having a terrific game. I just like the idea of a fresh Bierne offering a tactical difference by targeting the breakdown more with Lawes to fire off the bench. It would also hopefully keeps Lawes fresh to play a part in all 3 tests. I'm a massive Lawes fan but he's got a lot of miles on the clock and taken a lot of knocks.

1.Wyn Jones/Sutherland
2.George
3.Furlong
4.Itoje
5.AWJ
6.Bierne
7.Curry
8.Faletau

9.Price
10.Biggar

11.Duhan
12.Farrell
13.Henshaw
14.Watson
15.Hogg

16.Cowan-Dickie
17.Vunipola
18.Sinckler
19.Henderson
20.Lawes
21.Watson
22.Murray
23.Daly

Harsh on Conan I know who did little wrong but outside of one carry down the left wing around the half hour mark I just felt he didn't do that much right either. My feeling after that Conan performance is that on a bad day Faletau would have offered similar solidity but on a good day he has a higher ceiling. I rate Conan but simply rate Faletau much higher, no sleight on the Leinster man though as I've long been a Faletau fan girl.

I think the Boks will definitely start Malherbe and potentially start Kitshoff next weekend to hit the set-piece hard from the go. I also think Lood de Jager might start to pressure the Lions lineout more. Mostert is a terrific jumper and lineout leader in his own right but Lood is a touch better as a defensive jumper. As such I'd start George for his set-piece work and have a 6-2 split to cover for a potential siege tiring our starters in the first half. I really rate all three hookers on tour though so to be honest any combination of them could be justified depending on tactics.

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Post by BigGee Sun 25 Jul 2021, 5:22 pm

Poorfour wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Is Russell healthy?

You're the doctor, Doc. Shocked

Apparently, he was scheduled to be fit for the second Test. I think we saw yesterday that if we want to play round the Boks blitz it needs to be a Russell or Smith type at 10.

Ruck quoted one of the coaches saying that Russell was out of the boot and they were going to put him in light training on Monday. With Biggar’s return to play protocol as well, it’s very much up in the air as to which of the fly halves are going to be fit for Saturday.


There was a picture of him kicking the ball on the Lions twitter feed on friday and he was down on the pitch, without a boot after the match.

I think he will be fit next week and he may well start.

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Post by BigGee Sun 25 Jul 2021, 5:37 pm

I don't see any whole sale changes for this game either. They will want to win the series this time around when the Boks are still vulnerable.

If the Boks win this one, they will have their tails up and will be favourites for the decider.

Other players will get a run out in the final test if we win this one.


My team:

1. Sutherland/Jones - they are going to have to be very confident about WJs fitness to play him
2. LCD - I think he will stick here, but the other hookers all haver a good case
3. Furlong
4. AWJ
5. Itoje
6. Lawes
7. Curry - Watson's silly penalty may have cost him a start
8. Conan - did enough hard yard stuff to merit another crack
9. Price
10. Biggar/Russell/Farrell - Hard to see Biggar being fit for this one, but not clear on Russell either.
11. VDM
12. Henshaw
13. Harris
14. Watson
15. Hogg

Subs

Mako - who I think is better as an impact sub
Owens
Sinkler
Beirne
Watson
Murray
Whichever FH is fit and not starting
Williams

To me Daly is the only one who played himself out of the team. Hogg has a long range boot if they want someone in the team to perform that function.

Why change combos that are just starting to work and get used to each other?

Russell coming in for Biggar might just give that speed of pass required to unleash the backs against this very tight SA defence. Farrell and Murray on the bench to close out the game would be my preferred option.


Last edited by BigGee on Sun 25 Jul 2021, 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by The Oracle Sun 25 Jul 2021, 5:44 pm

3. Furlough?! He won’t be getting much game time then!
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Post by BigGee Sun 25 Jul 2021, 6:04 pm

The Oracle wrote:3. Furlough?! He won’t be getting much game time then!

Opps!

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Post by George Carlin Sun 25 Jul 2021, 6:16 pm

The Oracle wrote:3. Furlough?! He won’t be getting much game time then!
Laugh
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Post by TightHEAD Sun 25 Jul 2021, 6:24 pm

I would worry with Russell at 10.

Could he slot back in?

Lots of people saying Watson should have been yellow carded, did they miss his similar tackle in the first game Vs Lions? Never mentioned, anywhere!
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Post by R!skysports Sun 25 Jul 2021, 7:23 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I would change two of the back three, loose head, and outside center for next week.

Out - Hogg, VDM, Sutherland, Daley.

In - Williams, Adams, Wyn Jones, Harris.

They are the changes I would make.

Can see the point on Sutherland and daly, but VDM had a very good game , and Hogg was very solid in defence, although not much chance to have go forward


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Post by R!skysports Sun 25 Jul 2021, 7:27 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
RDW wrote:What did Hogg and VDM do to justify the boot?

I though defensively they were poor, and were not really good under the high ball, Hogg was OK under the high ball, but not as good as we are used to, and neither offered anything in attack, at least Watson came looking.

We looked a lot more solid when Liam Williams came on.

Thats how I saw it.

Just my opinion. thumbsup

really, VDM spoilt almost every high ball they sent up. Was not run passed, was a menace on their ball and they only scored one try, through another channel

Hogg, was like a wall. He got so much stick for his defence and now because he was more on defence then he gets dropped

Williams came on with the SA out on their feet. Not really a comparison. (and he dropped and knock on a few high balls too ). Although I like williams, and he is a class player

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 25 Jul 2021, 7:38 pm

Old Man wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Is Russell healthy?

You're the doctor, Doc. Shocked

Apparently, he was scheduled to be fit for the second Test. I think we saw yesterday that if we want to play round the Boks blitz it needs to be a Russell or Smith type at 10.
OK then.  If I am in charge, hammer a couple of staples into Russell's tendon, shoot him up with novocaine and ketamine and send him out there and get the win!!!
Yup, its not like he has to go through a metal detector when running onto the field  Very Happy
That's what they do with horses.  Tack em together, shoot em up and get a few good races.  Then they put them out to stud for a few years to make the real money, then put them to sleep when they can't walk anymore.  

Russell is only needed for two games then we can put him out to stud....

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Post by TJ Sun 25 Jul 2021, 7:58 pm

7. Curry - Watson's silly penalty may have cost him a start

Whereas Curry should have had a yellow for a late no arms tackle and Watsons was clearly only a pen not a card and Curry gave away 3 penalties in really stupid ways

I rate curry and when he has Watsons experience he may well surpass him - but right now Watsons decision making about what to do when is better

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Post by Soul Requiem Sun 25 Jul 2021, 8:02 pm

TJ wrote:
7. Curry - Watson's silly penalty may have cost him a start

Whereas Curry should have had a yellow for a late no arms tackle and Watsons was clearly only a pen not a card and Curry gave away 3 penalties in really stupid ways

I rate curry and when he has Watsons experience he may well surpass him - but right now Watsons decision making about what to do when is better

Hmmmm.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 25 Jul 2021, 8:31 pm

king_carlos wrote:I'd actually be really tempted to start Bierne for the 2nd test despite Lawes having a terrific game. I just like the idea of a fresh Bierne offering a tactical difference by targeting the breakdown more with Lawes to fire off the bench. It would also hopefully keeps Lawes fresh to play a part in all 3 tests. I'm a massive Lawes fan but he's got a lot of miles on the clock and taken a lot of knocks.

1.Wyn Jones/Sutherland
2.George
3.Furlong
4.Itoje
5.AWJ
6.Bierne
7.Curry
8.Faletau

9.Price
10.Biggar

11.Duhan
12.Farrell
13.Henshaw
14.Watson
15.Hogg

16.Cowan-Dickie
17.Vunipola
18.Sinckler
19.Henderson
20.Lawes
21.Watson
22.Murray
23.Daly

Harsh on Conan I know who did little wrong but outside of one carry down the left wing around the half hour mark I just felt he didn't do that much right either. My feeling after that Conan performance is that on a bad day Faletau would have offered similar solidity but on a good day he has a higher ceiling. I rate Conan but simply rate Faletau much higher, no sleight on the Leinster man though as I've long been a Faletau fan girl.

I think the Boks will definitely start Malherbe and potentially start Kitshoff next weekend to hit the set-piece hard from the go. I also think Lood de Jager might start to pressure the Lions lineout more. Mostert is a terrific jumper and lineout leader in his own right but Lood is a touch better as a defensive jumper. As such I'd start George for his set-piece work and have a 6-2 split to cover for a potential siege tiring our starters in the first half. I really rate all three hookers on tour though so to be honest any combination of them could be justified depending on tactics.

Beirne can actually play at 8 too. He’s done it once that I know of at least, and he was pretty good. It would be a radical change but it means you can have Lawes and Beirne in the same back-row Very Happy. If you watch Conan closely he actually does very well and was able to match the Boks physically. He’s been a lot better than Faletau on this tour.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 25 Jul 2021, 8:32 pm

Most people would say that Watson deserved a yellow. Curry did leave the door open to Watson with those 3 pens though the first 2 you could say were a tad unfortunate but technically correct. Watson did himself no favours with 2 quick infringements himself one which could have cost us quite a lot.

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Post by Rugby Fan Mon 26 Jul 2021, 12:43 am

Some of the rugby podcast feedback is starting to come in.

Daly is the main choice for change. The player himself gets some sympathy, because it didn't look like the Lions had a particular gameplan to use him. Both AWJ and Gatland said the decision at half time was to stop all the out-the-back passes, so that immediately meant Daly no primary role. Harris and Aki are the two options mentioned. It sounds like there are more votes for Harris.

In his Telegraph column, Courtney Lawes says it may have looked like the England World Cup final (which is what I thought) but it felt different. He says South Africa weren't bossing the set pieces, the Lions felt they were defending well, so they were confident the game could change if they could sort out their discipline. He also says the game wasn't especially physical, as all the kicking meant there was more running, rather than defending twenty phases over and over.

Warburton thinks Gatland wanted the keep kicks infield, to raise the ball-in-game time, and take advantage of the Springboks lack of fitness. He thinks fitness is one reason why the vaunted bomb squad replacement front row had less impact. While those three players were fresh, they had twelve team mates around them starting to feel their lack of game time.

There is speculation the Boks might switch their front rows for the second Test, reasoning that the Lions pack won't get any stronger than the first Test, so they should try and get more early dominance, and establish a more defendable lead.

The Times podcast team suggested a mixed bag of changes for next weekend, most of which have been aired here. If Wyn Jones is fit, then everyone wants him back. Then they are split over whether Sutherland drops to the bench, or Vunipola stays as an impact sub. Owens gets tipped to start as hooker for more throwing solidity.

Scrum half choice also seems to split opinion. While Price answered his critics, if the Lions really are just going to hoof the ball a lot, then some want Murray starting. Warburton would also like to see Josh Adams in place of van der Merwe, because he believes the Welshman's kick chase is the best in the squad. He would also like Faletau to start, though others felt Conan had done enough to retain his place.

If the Lions are going with the second half gameplan, then it makes sense to have the personnel on the pitch best suited to delivering it. The risk is discovering that the Boks defend it better second time around, and we no longer have players in the matchday 23 who can bring anything different.

That is Gatland's challenge. He knows the Boks will be better prepared, so has to judge whether The Lions can improve just as much by keeping things simple, and do enough to take the series in two matches. Or else have the Lions offer some different threats, so South Africa end up with the wrong gameplan.


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Post by TJ Mon 26 Jul 2021, 1:03 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Most people would say that Watson deserved a yellow. Curry did leave the door open to Watson with those 3 pens though the first 2 you could say were a tad unfortunate but technically correct. Watson did himself no favours with 2 quick infringements himself one which could have cost us quite a lot.

Watsons should NOT have been a yellow. the tipped player landed on his front and arms which is the definition used to ascertain degree of danger. Nor did he drive him down. Pen only was correct

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 26 Jul 2021, 6:02 am

You've been asked why you think that TJ as as I said most were thinking yellow including Nigel Owens. We got a bit of luck in that one and the ref missed plenty let's face it.

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